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What Should be done with #4?

Repair iron coffin
4 (13.8%)
Cover in concrete
14 (48.3%)
Let it alone
0 (0%)
Not our problem
5 (17.2%)
Shut up Goo, your wasting our time.
6 (20.7%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?  (Read 13988 times)

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greengoo

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What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« on: Jan 06, 2004, 09:41 »
I was watching Cable In The Classroom one morning before school, and it said that the iron structure covering rhe reactor buildiing was rusting away and, if left alone, would crumble and flood the area with radiation yet again.  I'm just curious, what are your all's opinions?

P.S.  Does anyone know how to spell Chernobyl, or am I spelling it right.

P.P.S.  I don't mind getting votes for the last one, if I was ever offended, I'd just stop coming here.
 ;D
Goo. 8)
« Last Edit: Jan 12, 2004, 12:04 by Rennhack »

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 07, 2004, 10:59 »
Goo,
Your spelling is correct. Concrete is our friend!. By the way, Chernobyl-4 proves once and for all that you should build your containment structure BEFORE the accident, it's a pain afterwards. ;D
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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 08, 2004, 03:18 »
greengoo,  did that report say how long it was going to take before the oxidation was complete and the collapse commenced?  what other plans are in place for the internment?  do they plan on ever retrieving the ram and putting it in a more safe storage?
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Offline HousePuke

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;Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 08, 2004, 03:33 »
It should be offered for sale to american utilities.  Someone would buy it at "fire sale" prices and then try for re-licensing.
It could happen. ;)
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Austria

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Re:  ;Poll: What should be done with Chernoby
« Reply #4 on: Jan 08, 2004, 05:47 »
Quote
It should be offered for sale to american utilities.  Someone would buy it at "fire sale" prices and then try for re-licensing.
It could happen. ;)


Sounds like a deal for Exelon.  ;)

As for the condition of the enclosure over the destroyed reactor, I have not seen any estimates on how much longer it may last. I recall some reports a few years back that stated a concern that in the event of a complete and sudden collapse of the structure the release of radioactive contamination to the atmosphere would be equal or greater than the release from the initial explosion.
This type of event would not create quite the same immediate area hazards as when there were bits of fuel and graphite scattered about the complex, but with the tremendous amounts of radioactive contamination still inside such a shock would send an incredible plume airborne.  :P

radgal

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 08, 2004, 06:07 »
Can't they put a new concrete containment over the old one before the original collapses?  Maybe prefab as much as possible prior to shipment to the site?  Or is that impossible?  

Offline DecommMan

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 08, 2004, 11:01 »
Its a major political issue impacted greatly by the technical issues and social issues surrounding it.  In my opinion, there are too many cooks in the kitchen and too many people trying to fill their own platters.
Decomm Man

Austria

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 08, 2004, 11:50 »
Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, the Ukrainian economy has not exactly been thriving. They are heavily dependent on nuclear power which accounts for about 46% of their electrical generation. There are currently 13 operating units and 5 more under construction.
In 1995, the Ukrainian government reached an agreement with the EU and G7 nations to shut down the remaining Chernobyl units in exchange for energy assistance and technology and help with the Chernobyl 4 sarcophagus.
There are several nations involved including the US and various international agencies. As I understand from various accounts, there is a 15 step remediation plan of which only 3 or 4 steps have been completed so far.

Yes, I am sure there are too many "cooks in the kitchen" as DecommMan stated but it is an issue that will affect everyones kitchen if it is not resolved. That's the paradox, I think. It is too big an issue for any one nation or group to effectively tackle, but large cooperative projects tend to get bogged down in politics and economics.

I had the opportunity to visit the Ukraine this summer (though I was not in Chernobyl). Kiev, the capital, is an amazingly vibrant city. We travelled down the Dnjepr River
to Dnjepropetrovsk (the former Soviet center for rocket develpoment), Odessa, and across the Black Sea to Sevastopol. Each of these cities and the many smaller towns we visited were incredbly full of life and friendly people. The countryside was beautiful. Yet sadly, it was easy to see the physical decay creeping into the cities as their economy has declined since gaining their independence.

I guess the point of all my rambling is that the Ukraine (though they are trying very hard) cannot meet the normal needs of their cities and people fully and will certainly be dependent upon international funding and assistance to secure Chernobyl Unit 4.  The initial disaster affected people for thousands of miles and a collapse of the sarcophagus would do the same. It would be tremendously irresponsible for the international nuclear community not to do everything humanly possible to prevent that. Um...okay....I'll get off my soap box now.

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 08, 2004, 12:09 »
Austria,
You deserve a voice on the soapbox or anywhere else with European issues. The Atlantic makes us act smugly safe, and with prevailing currents, it's more likely Asia and Pacific protecting us.
Keep us informed from your special perspective. :)
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Offline whosez

Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 08, 2004, 01:02 »
"And I honor the man who is willing to sink half his present repute for the freedom to think, and, when he has thought, be his cause strong or weak, Will risk t' other half for the freedom to speak."  James Russell Lowell

ex-turbine_cowboy

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 08, 2004, 02:27 »
Just a thought - Clean it up!

greengoo

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 08, 2004, 07:12 »
In the video I saw, the camera man could angle his camera up through a rusted out 10' by 20' sectiom of iron and see into part of the unit 4 building.  Thre was water running out of it, so there must be more holed on the top.  I would love to see them encase it in concrete.  I do not see a refit as a possibility, although I suppose you could do it if you had the time and resources.  I see cleanup as a slight possibility, would probobly be easier than trying to restart a melted reactor. ???

radgal

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 09, 2004, 06:59 »
The solution won't be easy. Austria had valid points.  It will effect all of us around the world, maybe the UN should give money and assistance in fixing the problem.

Offline darkmatter

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 09, 2004, 10:16 »
Vitrification. Run some big RF coils around the whole site, pop a geodesic dome over it and commence vitrification.
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Offline HydroDave63

Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 09, 2004, 10:29 »
Quote
Vitrification. Run some big RF coils around the whole site, pop a geodesic dome over it and commence vitrification.

Precisely the right answer! Simply pouring concrete won't help, as that freeze/thaw and water intrusion will cause the concrete to oxidize and allow seepage, but a vitrified burial will last for centuries (we hope)

Sign me up for the site characterization. What's the per diem?  ::)
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2004, 11:48 by HydroDave63 »

Wayrad

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Re: Poll: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 10, 2004, 07:16 »
Radgal had it right off the getgo, Bechtel and company are preposing the the construction of the largest movable structure ever built, to be moved into place over unit 4.

cpro

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Re: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 19, 2004, 12:07 »
this is definatley a tuffy...

on one hand we can build a concrete barrier that will eventually crumble, on the other hand we could build an iron structure which could rust....


just wondering..why didnt we cover it with lead bricks like we did TMI?

its a shame the rad in there is wayyyy to high for anyone to enter and start decon there.
 

DainJer

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Re: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 19, 2004, 01:31 »
IMHO lead bricks would be as much a safety hazard in the eyes of the "safety" people as exposure installing other protective barriers.

My recent 30 hour OSHA cert. list Lead as the number 2 safety problem in the U.S.

Scaffolding and rigging accidents topped the list.

cpro

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Re: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 22, 2004, 12:07 »
i see your point...


hmmmmmmm

i know a mission to get rid of the bulk of the mess is definatly out of the question do to how hot it is still...and if we build another structure out of concrete, it'll still just crumble in ~60 years or so.

also could the structure over the structure sustain the other structure falling within it? how much damage would be done and how much rad released if so/


do any of you think it would even be romotely possible to start a unmanned robotic decon on #4?

well i hope all the various top minds in the world are all stuck in a room working on it
« Last Edit: Jan 22, 2004, 12:08 by cpro »

Radman56

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Re: What should be done with Chernobyl #4?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 10, 2004, 01:40 »
Appoint a committee to come up with a practical solution............by the time they all agree, the problem will have decayed away......

 


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