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Fermi2

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Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« on: Mar 18, 2013, 06:25 »
Yep I said it.

Chimera

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #1 on: Mar 18, 2013, 06:45 »
Why?

Offline RTRT

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #2 on: Mar 18, 2013, 07:01 »
For me, it's the fact that most procedures now treat me like an apprentice. I now have no use of the 30+ years of experience because the procedures limit my actions and responses. To count a smear in the field from a CA, I now have make a plastic mat to count them on, no matter where you are. And the pad has to be posted as a CA.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #3 on: Mar 18, 2013, 07:20 »
you should go on the road.  might enjoy it!  i was house twice and thought I didn't like the nuclear industry.  but going on the road showed me there are some good places out there.  plus it is easier to like a place for 2-6 months vice 10 years.  just sayin!

Offline Bonds 25

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #4 on: Mar 18, 2013, 07:45 »
How about having to put on surgeons gloves everytime a SAM alarms before removing the item.......even if the item is an Operator's lunch (in a plastic store bag of course, because, you know, they dont attract Radon...right?) he is trying to get into the Control Room?  And the hundred times it alarms EVERYDAY due to workers cramming it full of gloves....that they HAVE to get out of the RCA   >:(
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #5 on: Mar 18, 2013, 08:13 »
Simple, because when people don't like something you did, or decided they won't come to you to share their grievance.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #6 on: Mar 18, 2013, 08:31 »
I learned, the hard way, the other day, that tightening a loose hand wheel nut is beyond what an operator is allowed to do, here. Instead, I should have aborted the test, written a CR, and waited for the process to send a mechanic out to complete the 10 second task. O.o

Justin
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #7 on: Mar 18, 2013, 08:53 »
Simple, because when people don't like something you did, or decided they won't come to you to share their grievance.

Is that the industry?  ...or the plant?  ...the world?

Hope things get better for you!  :)
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days. -Ray Wylie Hubbard

Offline Marlin

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #8 on: Mar 18, 2013, 08:55 »
Simple, because when people don't like something you did, or decided they won't come to you to share their grievance.

Sounds like a generic issue of any business, I suspect there is more that is best left unsaid.    [GH] [coffee]

Offline Marlin

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #9 on: Mar 18, 2013, 09:07 »
I learned, the hard way, the other day, that tightening a loose hand wheel nut is beyond what an operator is allowed to do, here. Instead, I should have aborted the test, written a CR, and waited for the process to send a mechanic out to complete the 10 second task. O.o

Justin

   You have my sympathy here.  [BH] Lessening acceptance of "Tool Box Knowledge" and escalating programmatic control is a frustrating trend in commercial power and DOE. I understand why and accept it, but anyone who has worked in the business for a long time has to feel a little handcuffed.

Offline RTRT

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #10 on: Mar 18, 2013, 10:59 »
I feel it's more like chains and stocks. You just have to keep repeating INPO is here to help. :(

Offline GLW

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #11 on: Mar 19, 2013, 08:11 »
I learned, the hard way, the other day, that tightening a loose hand wheel nut is beyond what an operator is allowed to do, here. Instead, I should have aborted the test, written a CR, and waited for the process to send a mechanic out to complete the 10 second task. O.o

Justin

On top of this add the inefficiencies induced by a security program which adds inordinate costs to every kilowatt hour, plus the looming spectre of inexpensive 1000Mw natural gas plants which can come online in two years, plus the pending corporate burden of enhanced spent fuel transport and storage final rules and the conclusion is that Kewaunee is the vanguard of a new paradigm,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Rennhack

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #12 on: Mar 19, 2013, 10:41 »
Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now

You know... I got banned from a nuclear plant for 18 years because I put text on a website that said "Joe Sitecoordinator sucks".  I hope security at your site doesn't see your dismay with the industry and decide you are a security risk.

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #13 on: Mar 19, 2013, 11:47 »
LOL it's not the plants I hate. It's the overall trend of the industry. Nuclear plants are just awesome!!!

rlbinc

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #14 on: Mar 19, 2013, 03:02 »
Yep I said it.

I like it.

You should try being a formerly Licensed Operator.
My two most professionally satisfying days in my career were the day I licensed and the day I gave it up.

MacGyver

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #15 on: Mar 19, 2013, 03:34 »
LOL it's not the plants I hate. It's the overall trend of the industry. Nuclear plants are just awesome!!!

Hey BZ are you talking about something like this,,, "Toxic Mngmnt of Byron Nuclear Plant"?


Pull Quote
Quote

Asked if Byron’s safety culture and work conditions demonstrate any long-term tendency toward improvement, one operator said, “It can seem like things are getting better. But then you realize you’ve just gotten used to it being so bad. Basically, we’re circling the drain, and as long as we don’t go in, no one cares how close we get.”

« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2013, 03:56 by MacGyver »

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #16 on: Mar 19, 2013, 04:35 »
I like it.

You should try being a formerly Licensed Operator.
My two most professionally satisfying days in my career were the day I licensed and the day I gave it up.

I'm actually working towards that.

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #17 on: Mar 19, 2013, 04:38 »
Hey BZ are you talking about something like this,,, "Toxic Mngmnt of Byron Nuclear Plant"?


Pull Quote



I saw that article. Byron must be horrible. To be honest my management has always treated me quite well and have never once implied I did wrong both times I made the decision to trip the reactor. They also haven't ever pressured me to make a decision I wouldn't otherwise make.

MacGyver

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #18 on: Mar 19, 2013, 04:49 »

I saw that article. Byron must be horrible. To be honest my management has always treated me quite well and have never once implied I did wrong both times I made the decision to trip the reactor. They also haven't ever pressured me to make a decision I wouldn't otherwise make.

Good to hear.  Just checking.

Mac

Offline Frankie Love

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #19 on: Mar 20, 2013, 10:52 »
I wonder what percentage is fact and what percentage is fiction. A scary article if the percentages lean a certain way. Interesting read just the same. How did you find the article? Google?

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #20 on: Mar 20, 2013, 01:31 »
It was sent to me via facebook. The parts I take issue with are when people say So and So died due to stress induced by... or So and So committed suicide due to such and such.

Offline Frankie Love

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #21 on: Mar 20, 2013, 06:14 »
I agree. With everything saved on the internet for eons...never know when a family member might discover something and believe it. Back to the article...with so many "comments" from Byron "employees", you have to wonder about the numerous sources for the article. Are there that many with an axe to grind? All it takes is a couple of knuckleheads with misinformation...

rlbinc

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #22 on: Mar 21, 2013, 11:53 »
I'm actually working towards that.

Let me help you out.

www.linkedin.com/pub/rob-brixey/53/58b/510


As a caporegime in the nuclear mafia, I think I can help.
« Last Edit: Mar 21, 2013, 11:57 by rlbinc »

Fermi2

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #23 on: Mar 21, 2013, 12:18 »
Hey Rob,

I do not have Linked. My email is fermi2@msn.com if you'd care to go that route.

Offline Contract SRO

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #24 on: Mar 21, 2013, 03:28 »
I like it.

You should try being a formerly Licensed Operator.
My two most professionally satisfying days in my career were the day I licensed and the day I gave it up.

Rob

I agree.  I earned two Licenses, my RO and ten upgraded to SRO.  So the three proudest days were when I received those licenses and then the day the letter came (after I took early retirement) that said your utility has determined that you no long need your license.

Hang in there BZ, your a top notch guy and as I am sure you know there are ruts in this industry but there are always ends to ruts as opposed to graves which as we all know have no end.

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #25 on: Mar 21, 2013, 04:22 »
I have noticed in the last twenty something years that the industry has really dumbed down the function of a radiation protection technician. It is amazing to me, how little you really need to know to survive. I still enjoy working an outage, but have found much more satisfaction from working on a decommissioning project. Nothing is cookie cutter and everything is the first time it seems. The challenges are so satisfying when we find our way through. Of course we have qualifications for positions like most anywhere would, but the position descriptions cover a lot more ground. I have done everything from routine surveys to bid proposal reviews/approvals to touring groups from other countries explaining our controls. Our Decon folks are probably the most versatile work group on site doing rigging, glove bag installs, special fabrications of all kinds and we even promote the idea of qualifying them on some meters. It is a small mom/pop shop environment that fosters creativity from the WHOLE team. I work with several local hires that worked decon, went to our RP training program and are now 3.1 techs working in the field.

Having the ability to voice an idea and have it taken seriously no matter what your position is makes for a healthy and productive team I think.
I Heart Hippie Chicks!!!

Offline GLW

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #26 on: Mar 22, 2013, 09:45 »
....I work with several local hires that worked decon, went to our RP training program and are now 3.1 techs working in the field....

Only where you are,...

...Which is why a dirt pounder at a DnD can get paid and termed to be a senior and get pretty sold on himself only to be devastated after six years or so when the DnD is over and the best job he can land is Jr. RP at a utility outage making a third to half what he thought he was worth,....

Hard sad fact,....

Without a commercial outage resume, PADS, and NEI 14, the home grown DnD 3.1 Seniors are Jr.s to the commercial power world,....

Advise them to not get used to it (paywise), or to break out now into commercial power production on their own best terms that they can get, or stick to DnD,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Old HP

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #27 on: Mar 24, 2013, 01:20 »
Brett,

I agree with your comment about the industry. It seems that the outage managers are coming from the outside world as they are increasingly unfamiliar with the actual requirements to complete high risk evolutions. It becomes more difficult to adjust to directions from someone with a couple of outages, when a number of us have the experience gained from over 50 to 100 outages. But I have learned to ask " are you sure you want to do that now" so that I am on record as having questioned an evolution that is very likely to fail. Not many plants care about what we may have learned in our travels.
 

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #28 on: Mar 27, 2013, 07:46 »

Hard sad fact,....

Without a commercial outage resume, PADS, and NEI 14, the home grown DnD 3.1 Seniors are Jr.s to the commercial power world,....

Advise them to not get used to it (paywise), or to break out now into commercial power production on their own best terms that they can get, or stick to DnD,...

Our guys are ANSI 3.1 once they are done and since one of our consultants actually helped author what makes a 3.1 technician, there should be no debates once released to the wild. Many have also been sent to Diablo Canyon for outage work. I believe our training program (which goes into PADS) is pretty unique. It was developed with it in mind that we wanted the newbees to be ready for the "Real World" when they left. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our RPM that pushed to make that a part of our program. They will have no problem getting jobs when they leave here, or at least will be playing on level ground with the rest. Believe me when I say, one of our new 3.1 techs (less than 5 years) has seen and covered higher level work than they will ever see in a commercial outage. Both from the perspective of a Decon technician and RP technician (they had to do both jobs). As a non-ANSI Jr. RP fresh out of class, you are expected to provide coverage (with a mentor of course) for anything other than high rad and free release. I really wish others took this approach to developing new folks, makes for strong capable technicians who actually know about the science they are protecting people from.  
« Last Edit: Mar 27, 2013, 07:48 by Brett LaVigne »
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #29 on: Mar 27, 2013, 09:43 »
Our guys are ANSI 3.1 once they are done and since one of our consultants actually helped author what makes a 3.1 technician, there should be no debates once released to the wild. Many have also been sent to Diablo Canyon for outage work. I believe our training program (which goes into PADS) is pretty unique. It was developed with it in mind that we wanted the newbees to be ready for the "Real World" when they left. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our RPM that pushed to make that a part of our program. They will have no problem getting jobs when they leave here, or at least will be playing on level ground with the rest. Believe me when I say, one of our new 3.1 techs (less than 5 years) has seen and covered higher level work than they will ever see in a commercial outage. Both from the perspective of a Decon technician and RP technician (they had to do both jobs). As a non-ANSI Jr. RP fresh out of class, you are expected to provide coverage (with a mentor of course) for anything other than high rad and free release. I really wish others took this approach to developing new folks, makes for strong capable technicians who actually know about the science they are protecting people from.  

Gotta protect people from that science...  ;)
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days. -Ray Wylie Hubbard

Offline GLW

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #30 on: Mar 28, 2013, 10:03 »
Our guys are ANSI 3.1 once they are done and since one of our consultants actually helped author what makes a 3.1 technician, there should be no debates once released to the wild. Many have also been sent to Diablo Canyon for outage work. I believe our training program (which goes into PADS) is pretty unique. It was developed with it in mind that we wanted the newbees to be ready for the "Real World" when they left. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our RPM that pushed to make that a part of our program. They will have no problem getting jobs when they leave here, or at least will be playing on level ground with the rest. Believe me when I say, one of our new 3.1 techs (less than 5 years) has seen and covered higher level work than they will ever see in a commercial outage. Both from the perspective of a Decon technician and RP technician (they had to do both jobs). As a non-ANSI Jr. RP fresh out of class, you are expected to provide coverage (with a mentor of course) for anything other than high rad and free release. I really wish others took this approach to developing new folks, makes for strong capable technicians who actually know about the science they are protecting people from.  

Good to hear,....

From a PM I sent to a newbie not so long ago:


..................Shipyard Article 108 might be your better resume enhancer, get 108 qualed, hang at the shipyard for a couple of years and try commercial again,...

the other option would be a long term DnD of a NRC licensed facility, cover major component removal and segmentation, try to get picked up for radwaste and get certified as a DOT Class 7 shipper while gaining your Senior HP and absorbing as much as you can with pool to pad (ISFSI) experience (so you can work with real neutron dose rates and no chit it could kill ya ARM controls at the SF bridge), Final Status Survey, and HPGE/count room stints,...

Zion has a number of years to go, Kewaunee may start DnD next fall, Humboldt is ongoing for a lot of years to go (and it's an alpha nightmare, but you did say you wanted to get good quick IIRC),..

stay away from.....................,...


The efforts on the part of your RPM which you have detailed speak volumes,....

Our guys are ANSI 3.1 once they are done and since one of our consultants actually helped author what makes a 3.1 technician, there should be no debates once released to the wild.............

How much I agree and applaud and why does not change the reality of the last decades,...

To be honest with ya, in the 24 yrs I've been do'n this I've never seen a non-commercial or D&D site take a commercial qualified SHP as anything less than a SHP whereas the commercial world is not to keen on taking a non-commercial or D&D SHP as a SHP until said tech has at least 6-12 mo's commercial under his/her belt.   Not saying it doesnt happen, just never seen it. 

Perhaps as the pool of slower, but well seasoned techs diminishes the paradigm will be forced to change,...

I don't read tea leaves so I don't know,...

Tell Marty I said hi,...check your PM's,...
« Last Edit: Mar 28, 2013, 10:20 by GLW »

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline jkj

Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #31 on: Jun 09, 2013, 09:35 »
This "Industry" sux and I'll be glad to get out. Sad.
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Sincerely Hate This Industry Right Now
« Reply #32 on: Jun 09, 2013, 10:50 »
spring 2005 Indian Point took a bunch of RCTs.  RCTs that couldn't get RCT work even.  Didn't work out very well.  But I worked with a bunch at SRS recently (House RCTs) that were better IMHO than many commercial techs. Maybe we got the bottom of the barrel in 05.

 


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