wrongful disenrollment

[Cara B.]

I was in week 22 of prototype when I was disenrolled, and the reason is still unclear.  I'll admit I was doing poorly, but this was the result of a horrible situation I had no control over.  I asked to be rolled back and I was told they didn't feel it was worth it.  I fell even further behind due to ptm violations and refusal of staff to help me in any way.  I asked again to be rolled back and was told that had I asked earlier they could have rolled me back.  All I want is to back but nobody has any idea how to make that happen so they refuse to try.  Is there anything that can be done?

[HeavyD]

Not nearly enough information to provide very useful feedback as of yet.

If you were disenrolled, there is a reason.  The reason has to be justified, meaning there is associated paperwork with it.  That paperwork will reference the justification for your disenrollment and a copy of it has to be in your service record, which you have the right to review at your personnel office.  Plus, I also remember those we disenrolled when I was an instructor at prototype (late 90s) had to sign paperwork ackowledging that they understood they were being disnerolled and why.

Check the MILPERMAN for information about requesting reinstatement into the Nuke program.  Somewhere in the 1300 section, if I recall correctly.

Last question; what is/are ptm violations?

[Cara B.]

The Ptm (prototype training manual) is this book of how they are supposed to train students.  It has all the rules of what to do when students get so far behind and about grading tests and watches and stuff.  They didn't follow said rules and set me up for failure. 

I was never given any kind of information about my disenrollment.  I was also given one days notice to transfer from Ballston Spa to Groton.  Anyway, when I got here they said my paperwork looked like it was a medical drop but we were all confused by that because I had no medical problems.  Then the next thing I heard was "it wasn't medical" and they would provide no further information.  I think they mean I failed out but with the circumstances it was impossible for me to qualify.

[drayer54]

The Ptm (prototype training manual) is this book of how they are supposed to train students.  It has all the rules of what to do when students get so far behind and about grading tests and watches and stuff.  They didn't follow said rules and set me up for failure. 

I was never given any kind of information about my disenrollment.  I was also given one days notice to transfer from Ballston Spa to Groton.  Anyway, when I got here they said my paperwork looked like it was a medical drop but we were all confused by that because I had no medical problems.  Then the next thing I heard was "it wasn't medical" and they would provide no further information.  I think they mean I failed out but with the circumstances it was impossible for me to qualify.

[HeavyD]

The PTM is a little more than that.

The PTM contains the directives that govern all aspects of the training process, from classroom phase to in-hull, oral boards, tests, etc.

Also, how poorly is poorly, related to your performance.  If your performance was poor, with no indications that your performance would improve with continued enrollment, then they are well within the rules and regulations to disenroll you. 

The Nuclear Navy is based on procedural compliance.  The PTM is one of these procedures.  If you are saying that the prototype staff intentionally and maliciously violated this procedure in order to disenroll you, that is a serious accusation.  Keep in mind that you are still on active duty.  As such you can and will be held accountable for any statements that you make in a public forum (and yes, the internet is most definitely a public forum) if these statements prove to be baseless or without justification.

I don't say these things to scare you or take the Navy's side.  You need to keep these things in mind as they are YOUR responsibility as an active duty member.  You need to remember that your performance is YOUR responsibility.  If it was not up to par, then you would be disenrolled.

Lastly, when you discuss things here please be specific as to who "they" are.  These infamous people are responsible for uncounted atrocities worldwide.  On a serious note, if we know specifically who "they" are, we can tell you if you are talking to the correct people or not.

[spekkio]

the reason is still unclear... I was doing poorly...

Man, we have a real winner here, don't we?

Is there anything that can be done?

Yes. You can learn from this experience, apply yourself better, and  succeed elsewhere. The world is not going to cut you a break for poor performance.

Your first command is going to know that you were a nuke drop. My advice to you is to own up to it. Drop the "wrongful" and don't tell them your sob-story. Just say that you didn't have what it takes, but you're here to do the best job you can do. Have a good attitude, work hard, and get qualified, and people will start to look at you as a submariner instead of nuke waste. Who knows...you might be thanking your lucky stars when you pull into port after a deployment at 1300 and get to go home, while the nukes stay on board to shut down the reactor.

[Cara B.]

By they I mean my staff advisor, tc, and lcc.  I didn't say they did anythting maliciously or even intentionally.  I went through something terrible and devastating and nobody knew how to respond.  They made mistakes and I'm not mad or anything, I just think I deserve a second chance. 

[Cara B.]

Also I was doing well (~3% ahead around end of off-crew) before "it" happened, which was shortly after going to crew.  Plus we had just an unlucky class with extended shutdowns.

[MacGyver]

Also I was doing well (~3% ahead around end of off-crew) before "it" happened, which was shortly after going to crew.  Plus we had just an unlucky class with extended shutdowns.

It sounds like you had an even playing field (i.e. Unlucky class, sic).

In the old days we dropped the bottom third of every class at each school.

Which one of these examples sounds 'unfair'?

Follow Heavy D's advice.

Mac

[Cara B.]

*warning, bomb is dropped on discussion,  sensitive people should not read this comment*
Did you miss the whole "it" concept.  "it" refers to getting sexually assaulted, threatened, and abused by my boyfriend.  I had to get the whole chain of command involved to make him leave me alone.  I was in and out a lot I missed a grand total of at least a week and no normal personcan concentrate with that happening.  So no shit I'm bitter about it and feel I should have gotten a second chance. Yeah, the field was unfair. 

[MacGyver]

*warning, bomb is dropped on discussion,  sensitive people should not read this comment*
Did you miss the whole "it" concept.  "it" refers to getting sexually assaulted, threatened, and abused by my boyfriend.  I had to get the whole chain of command involved to make him leave me alone.  I was in and out a lot I missed a grand total of at least a week and no normal personcan concentrate with that happening.  So no shit I'm bitter about it and feel I should have gotten a second chance. Yeah, the field was unfair.  

Yes that's terrible.

But, not to long ago with or without cause many have been dis-enrolled.

I know of a gentlemen who got pulled from the program due to his roommate committed suicide.  He had good grades.  He got the "WE" (i.e. big navy) think you aren't going to cope well so we are going to remove you from the program speech.  Was he "bitter", not that I could tell.  At the time the NNPP (Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program) failed / masted 90% of the start to finish numbers.

So, you got the raw end of the deal.  No not really.

I know a sailor that got pulled from the program back in the day because he was falsely accused of sexual harassment.  He didn't even get a "I'm sorry" from the Program weeks later after he was exonerated.  Was he "bitter"?  Nope.  Did the guilty parties get any discipline.  Nope.

Life isn't fair.  Naval Nuclear Power seems to be less fair than any other program.  But, heck I don't know about other Military programs.

I doubt you will have any recourse.

Many folks have gotten a raw deal and moved forward like their life depended on it.  Because it does.

My Best.

Mac

[spekkio]

Cara,

I will level with you: I am sorry that you had to deal with adversity. It really doesn't matter what "it" is; what matters is that the nuclear power program is exceptionally unforgiving for missed time. It was part of the deal when Rickover created the program and fought for government funding -- he could deliver a trained nuclear operator in 1 year. He would also probably yell at you for playing around with boys instead of doing what you were being paid to do -- learn nuclear power (a viewpoint I personally disagree with, but the culture lives on in the program). I know people who were told "no" to taking leave for all sorts of life-altering events while in the training pipeline -- from deaths in the family to child birth to divorce. "But MILPERSMAN says I get 10 days of non-chargeable baby leave!" Not in NNPTC. You will graduate in 6 months or you will not graduate. It sucks.

Having said that, here is the reality of your situation: you will not serve yourself well by complaining about how unfair life is, how raw of a deal you got, or how unfair life is for not making exceptions for someone who was going through a rough breakup. Chain of command? How about you call the police to get a restraining order, never contact him again, then go to work and forget he exists while you study nuclear power and get qualified? That's what the program expected of you -- to act like a reasonable adult, and it takes missing 1/2 a day to appear in court. You mentioned you are being disenrolled in week 22 and "it" happened sometime around week 8 and caused you to miss one week of training. That sounds to me like the Navy gave you an opportunity to make up for your lost time -- about 3 1/2 months, in fact. During that time you demonstrated to the Navy that you couldn't perform up to standards, so they are disenrolling you. Keep in mind that the staff at prototype is doing this when there is a LOT of pressure to retain students if at all possible. You were not wrongfully disenrolled; you were disenrolled because you failed to meet the minimum required progress and performance required to pass NNPTC. No one cares why.

The only thing you can do is move on and succeed outside of nuclear power. Step one requires having a good attitude and taking ownership in your part of failing out of the pipeline. Judging by your posts, I think you have some work to do.

[Marlin]

Cara is no longer a registered user, she has left the site.