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nuke88

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Good afternoon,

I am currently a radiation protection technician student in Tennessee, and I am wondering basically what to expect when I graduate.  A few details about me and the program:

-We will have a 4-6 month internship with TVA, to include work at Watts Bar, Sequoyah, and Browns Ferry nuke plants a month or so after we graduate.
-We will be working primarily with Bartlett to obtain contract jobs to work towards our Senior Tech level
-We will be taking the NUF before we graduate.

About me:
-I was able to attend the NEI Radiation Protection forum in San Diego this year, where I was able to network with some of the higher up's at Bartlett, as well as numerous radiation protection managers from many of the plants.
-I am currently the VP of the American Nuclear Society at my school.
-I also have a 4 year bachelors degree in business finance.

I was wondering,  what is to be expected in terms of job outlook for us, as well as what is the best tactic to make sure we are applying for any available jobs for junior techs.  In other words, what advice do you have for me/us at this point in our radiation protection career?

Thank you!

Offline Rennhack

Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #1 on: Dec 18, 2014, 07:44 »
This would be a great time to talk to some of the Alumni from the program.  I have worked with several graduates of that program.

Quote
In other words, what advice do you have for me/us at this point in our radiation protection career?

That's a really broad question.  Spend a few hours reading some posts on this site. Questions along those lines have been answered several times.  In order to get a better answer, you will need to give us a more specific question.

Here it goes again:  The largest employer of Jr RP Technicians is... drum roll please..... Bartlett. 800-225-0385
You can try Atlantic group as well.
Post your resume on NukeWorker.
Check the company sites for the Utilities you are looking to work for.
Send your resume to any company that posts an RP job opening.

When at TVA, Volunteer for everything.  Tell Bartlett you will take any job any where, that you just want to stay employed.

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #2 on: Dec 18, 2014, 11:20 »
That is a great response to my question, however broad the question it may be.  Thank you for recommending the Atlantic group, as well as posting my resume to this website. I wanted to be able to bring some of this information back to my classmates.  Also, I will continue to search the forums for previous expecting/recent graduates that have the same basic questions that I might have. 

Thank you.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #3 on: Dec 18, 2014, 12:09 »
Don't stop posting the questions. 

I have worked with many graduates of that program.  I would like to see one of them return to give a speech on your subject.
« Last Edit: Dec 18, 2014, 12:11 by Rennhack »

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #4 on: Dec 19, 2014, 05:41 »
It is too bad the 4 year degree in business finance did not pan out.  If you are academic at all you may get bored being a nuc, which are trained and mainly follow procedures.  Once trained, nothing much changes the rest of your career.

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #5 on: Dec 19, 2014, 06:28 »
I agree; it seems that the generic 4 year business degree is not always the way to go.  My friend does radiation protection at our local plant, and he does very well for himself; works hard including working overtime, and getting paid well to put in the hours.  That is what drew me to changing my career to radiation protection.  I will sacrifice being a little bored any day if I am given the opportunity to work a lot and make a decent wage.

Offline OldHP

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #6 on: Dec 19, 2014, 10:35 »
As Mike said this is the time to talk to graduates of the program!  Jason xxxxxx comes to mind, you can find him here, on linkedin, or through one of your instructors!

Or PM me and I'll ask him to get in touch with you!


  Modified for Forum Rule #7 https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,4700.0.html
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2014, 09:58 by HydroDave63 »
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Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #7 on: Dec 20, 2014, 09:30 »
I agree; it seems that the generic 4 year business degree is not always the way to go.  My friend does radiation protection at our local plant, and he does very well for himself; works hard including working overtime, and getting paid well to put in the hours.  That is what drew me to changing my career to radiation protection.  I will sacrifice being a little bored any day if I am given the opportunity to work a lot and make a decent wage.
     Back in the 1920s, people used to work 12+ hour days 6 days a week just to get by. Then came the unions that fought for 8 hour days and put in the law if you work over 40 hours in a week, you got paid time and a half. During World War II everyone worked long shifts as part of the war effort. Once the war was over, and utopia set in where people worked 8 hour days, you could afford a small house, and had leisure time to pursue hobbies.
     You are now coming into an industry that the wages have been stagnant for 10 years and people are working the 72 hour weeks not to thrive; no, we are back in the 1920s just getting by. If you had chosen a job in finance, they are still geared up for 40 hour weeks. When you get stuck in the nuclear rat race, you will find you have nothing to do but work. If you are younger and have a family, your children will hardly know you.  It breaks my heart when I hear mother say, "My children don't want any special gifts, they want me home."
     Outages are getting shorter and shorter. You are not paid for the time you travel to a job and back home if you travel a long distance, and travel pay is capped to cover maybe 500 miles. Once you are stuck on the road working 6 months plus a year, you are unable to even go to school to train to do something else. The job itself has become tedious, with bean counting supervisors ensuring little time for breaks. The slightest mistake can lead to immediate discharge. I've seen it at all the recent outages I have been to. Before you take that final leap, examine what you're getting into.

Offline Old HP

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #8 on: Dec 20, 2014, 02:17 »
And here I thought nobody else had noticed the changes that have occurred in the last 20 years.
Radiation Protection used to be a profession and the plant staff and even the management appreciated good job coverage, now not so much.

Offline jkj

Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #9 on: Dec 21, 2014, 11:12 »
     Back in the 1920s, people used to work 12+ hour days 6 days a week just to get by. Then came the unions that fought for 8 hour days and put in the law if you work over 40 hours in a week, you got paid time and a half. During World War II everyone worked long shifts as part of the war effort. Once the war was over, and utopia set in where people worked 8 hour days, you could afford a small house, and had leisure time to pursue hobbies.
     You are now coming into an industry that the wages have been stagnant for 10 years and people are working the 72 hour weeks not to thrive; no, we are back in the 1920s just getting by. If you had chosen a job in finance, they are still geared up for 40 hour weeks. When you get stuck in the nuclear rat race, you will find you have nothing to do but work. If you are younger and have a family, your children will hardly know you.  It breaks my heart when I hear mother say, "My children don't want any special gifts, they want me home."
     Outages are getting shorter and shorter. You are not paid for the time you travel to a job and back home if you travel a long distance, and travel pay is capped to cover maybe 500 miles. Once you are stuck on the road working 6 months plus a year, you are unable to even go to school to train to do something else. The job itself has become tedious, with bean counting supervisors ensuring little time for breaks. The slightest mistake can lead to immediate discharge. I've seen it at all the recent outages I have been to. Before you take that final leap, examine what you're getting into.

 Amen, brother----- If I had a son, (and I do) I would tell him not to get anywhere near this field, unless you are completely desperate. Unfortunately, in this "booming" job market many people are, and that's why this job and most others have declined. It may get better but not in my lifetime. My advice---"don't!"
Words fail me and pictures aren't much better.

"Never take no cut-offs, and hurry along as fast as you can."-- (Virginia Reed; member of Donner party.)

surf50

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #10 on: Dec 21, 2014, 04:25 »
Yes, everyone's noticed the changes over the last 20 years in this business (as well as practically every other business), but what Nuke88 seems to be saying is his buddy has a good job as a house tech, and he wants in on it, too.

Quote
My friend does radiation protection at our local plant, and he does very well for himself; works hard including working overtime, and getting paid well to put in the hours.  That is what drew me to changing my career to radiation protection.  I will sacrifice being a little bored any day if I am given the opportunity to work a lot and make a decent wage.

I say go for it; being a house tech (for me) was a great experience and financially rewarding. And being bored is only an issue if you sit in the breakroom too long. ;D

As far as being a road tech, well, it's a fine part time gig, but I wouldn't want to have to make a living at it.

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #11 on: Dec 22, 2014, 12:47 »
Until now, aside from it being somewhat difficult to find work starting out as a junior tech, on the road work sounds great because it seems there is a lot of money to be made.  Also, people are saying that you never see your family, but as a junior, I most likely will be working strictly outage work, which means basically half the year off.  I would love to work throughout the year, but that seems to be the nature of things.  And if I got a house job, at least I could provide for a family and make a great wage.  To be honest, that is what I want to do, IS WORK!   And you think that the rat race is just in nuclear, well try having a basic business degree;  2000 fish (people) all trying to take a bite at 1 piece of food (a job/promotion/ect.), all while getting paid a wage that is below what is needed to have any sort of freedom.  Cube life is just not for me.

I appreciate the advice, and I certainly want to know the positives and negatives of the industry.  However, I have chosen to get into rad protection with the intentions of succeeding, working long hours, and making great money to provide for a family.  If I have to be on the road for 2 months, so be it.

Offline Old HP

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2014, 02:18 »
Grasshopper,

It sounds like you have made up your mind from the other side of the fence. The grass is always greener on the opposite side from where you are standing.
Yes you can make a living as a road tech and be home 6 months of the year, however there are prices to pay for that goal.  It can take 4-6 years to cross the required experience line to become a 3.1 ANSI  Sr. Tech. There are a lot of Jr. Techs that give up before reaching the 3 year qualification. Also once you do become a Sr. Tech you will notice that the divorce rate for road techs is VERY high ( due to only being home 6 months  a year). The availability of jobs will be decreasing as more plants are shut down and placed in Safe Store (not many decommissioning jobs in the next 10 years).
If you do make it past 18.1 qualification you will notice that there is not a lot of opportunity for real on the job training due to short outages and time pressure, ( I know there is no time pressure, or so I have been told over in 30 years worth of outages ).  The system has generated a lot of Techs that do not have the experience or ability to cover high risk jobs due to the above mentioned time pressure issues.
Enough of the real world stuff.  I hope you are successful in achieving whatever goals you set for yourself and that the grass is greener for you on the nuclear side of the fence.


                                            Old HP
 

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2014, 04:33 »
Thank you.  I appreciate the information.  With the all this talk regarding looming shut downs of plants, divorce rates skyrocketing for traveling tech's, no jobs, working too much, not finding enough work, ect.., I will still push forward.  I feel as though a few of my friends have been able to do very well in radiation protection in my area, and I still feel confident in my choice.  Once again however, thank you for the info!

Offline Marlin

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #14 on: Dec 22, 2014, 04:51 »
Thank you.  I appreciate the information.  With the all this talk regarding looming shut downs of plants, divorce rates skyrocketing for traveling tech's, no jobs, working too much, not finding enough work, ect.., I will still push forward.  I feel as though a few of my friends have been able to do very well in radiation protection in my area, and I still feel confident in my choice.  Once again however, thank you for the info!

I think Old HP gave you some sage advice however kudos on the positive attitude.




Offline indoprime

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #15 on: Dec 22, 2014, 05:46 »
Nuke88,

Congrats on the Business degree, I'm sure that it will serve you well later on in life. You may want to start your own company one day.  As for becoming a Migrant Nuclear Worker, the first three or so years are very HARD. Not a lot of jobs out there for Jr's., or even 18.1's.

Road life is fun and exciting when you first start out. New plants, new people, new places to see.  However, if you have a family waiting for you at home, that excitement goes away pretty quick. 

Maybe you'll get some hours toward being a Sr, once you complete your coursework (1000hrs?)- if you havent already.  The fact that you have a 4-yr degree should help as well.  (about another 1000 hrs?)

I think being an 18.1 is 4000 hrs. If you have an opportunity to take a long term (9month - 1yr) DOE gig, DO IT! That's another 1000 hr's under your belt.  Bartlett has a lot of DOE jobs available. 
Excuses are tools of the incompetent which create monuments of nothingness, Those who specialize in their uses seldom achieve anything.

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #16 on: Dec 22, 2014, 06:52 »

I appreciate the advice, and I certainly want to know the positives and negatives of the industry.  However, I have chosen to get into rad protection with the intentions of succeeding, working long hours, and making great money to provide for a family.  If I have to be on the road for 2 months, so be it.

I can agree with the long hours, but the great money ship may have sailed.  If you are referring to outages, I spent exactly 1 month on, consisting of 2 weeks straight time followed by 2 week time and 1/2.  I take home a walloping bonus of $116 after taxes.    You must leave your family and stay in dives to get to keep as much per diem as possible.  Finally, as you age in the business your health suffers prematurely.  Many friends I knew in the business left through death.  People who travel have the highest divorce rate because of the separation.  The job itself, the recruiters do not back you if you make a mistake, even minor ones.  I saw at least one or two thrown under the bus.  It used to be a business of low hanging fruit; now the grapes are souring and with the flood of workers, you will see lower skilled jobs catching up, like $15 minimum wage in Seattle.  I used to fly to a job and rent a car.  The rental rates doubled and our per diem has not kept up.  Some employers like Excelon say they pay full mileage;  That is only if you drive. If you fly they only pay the ticket.  It would be wise to have a back up career handy.  I used to be a teacher so I could go back if things don't improve soon.

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #17 on: Dec 22, 2014, 07:36 »
content 1, what area of the country do you live if you do not mind me asking.  Do you think it might be a lack of work, or decent work, in your surrounding area?

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #18 on: Dec 22, 2014, 08:44 »
I live on the west coast near San Francisco.  We recently lost San Onofre so the work is on the east coast.  My main problem is not  the distance, it is the short outages.  I was working at Duane Arnold in the turbine building on day shift.  We do some free releasing.  A night shift Senior was discharged when an item was brought in, then later sent back out because it was not needed.  He forgot to do direct frisks in the pressure to keep things moving.  Someone noticed he didn't do the directs on what was really a clean item; he was down the road that day.  It is like the old Bartlett saying, we don't make the same mistake twice.  That is because you are fired on the first one.  I had two years of law school in my past, and I have found the education comes in handy if someone tries to frame you.

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #19 on: Dec 23, 2014, 08:03 »
      I just did the math, and a lot of other techs will come to the same conclusion.  I have basically been on the road since 2003 and did so because the pay was good and the per diem saved was good, plus the fact you could stay off the road 1/2 the year living on unemployment.  I have accepted a job this spring that I may cancel due to the actual take home money received.  It used to be I could fly out to a site, rent a car for a little over a hundred a week and rent a room cheaply.  Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, the car rates have tripled and have consistently been so for the last year.  You may get a rate slightly cheaper if you rent for a whole month, unless you find yourself laid off early.  With the flattening of the per diem, at $110 per week, when I subtract food, a car rental, and a room it will effectively make the per diem a wash, or break even.
     Now, take the wage.  Assuming pay of $29/hour of the non-outage week you get a gross of $1160 or net roughly of $928.  Compare that to my unemployment of $571, I am only net-netting $357 that week, or roughly $8.90 per hour, less than minimum wage in my state.  When comparing an act, you must weigh against the alternatives.  We don't go on the road to see the sights; we are mercenaries.  Now, take the subsequent weeks of 6 12 hour days, where all you do is work and sleep, your gross $29*88, or $2552 gross or $1914/week.  Subtract unemployment and your net-net is $1343/week or $18.65 per hour.
At some places like Seattle, the minimum wage is $15/hour.  You are effectively driving across country for 3 days unpaid each way, with the exception of being paid travel of $750 (Many capped out at $500) putting wear and tear on your car, or flying to only beak even with per diem, to only earn effectively $3.65 per hour more than minimum wage?  You are away from your family for months on end to mainly pay the hotels, car rentals and restaurants?  You can't recover those times like when your baby firsts walks, or talks from your motel room. 
     Some will say there is a flaw in my logic, that I am adding unemployment in the mix.  If you don't take all your unemployment, it is lost so the calculation is valid.  I knew this tipping point would someday come, with the wages repressed and our costs going up.
     The situation is more pronounced if you make a lower income, such as deconnners.  Yes, you can lower costs by double/tripling up on rooms and eat at McDonalds and die young.
     In an industry where the alternatives to road life are about the same, why do it?  Take the time and get a good local job.

Offline GLW

Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #20 on: Dec 23, 2014, 08:27 »
FYI -

technically, per diem saved is income and is therefore per diem to be taxed,...

unemployment pay was never intended to be vacation pay,...

......at $110 per week, when I subtract food, a car rental, and a room it will effectively make the per diem a wash, or break even....

it's supposed to be,...

just leave it at that,...

_____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ _____________________________ ___



I would not advertise some things on public forums,...

there were braggarts on these boards (and other boards) about the erstwhile "Massachusetts Unemployment Deal" who justified ignoring "the intent" by manipulating "the legal",...

Massachusetts fixed that,...

the legal and the intent are now aligned,...

no more deal,...

do what you will,...

I strongly advise against poking the bear,...

especially on public forums,...

it embarrasses the bear and that pisses the bear off,...

especially when the income numbers being tossed about are only pipe dreams for about 50% of the American public (median, average, quantiles, you do the math),...

"poor little rich nukeworkers",....
« Last Edit: Dec 23, 2014, 08:38 by GLW »

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #21 on: Dec 23, 2014, 08:58 »
Therefore your added reasoning, such as excess per diem should be taxed, unemployment not meant to be vacation etc., are further reasons to show the  industry is no longer a profitable career choice.  I  am not poking the bear, I am leaving the woods when bear hunting became too costly.  What would I like to see happen?  Pay and per diem to go up to make it worthwhile to travel again.  This is not a campaign, only an explanation that workers will vote their feet and go into other lines of work when they have a similar epiphany.  When it becomes harder to staff outages, or the only ones that go are no longer the cream of the crop of society, people will understand we can do math for more than calculating an air sample.  I was formerly a law student and teacher, I left for the money, I will leave again with the other erudite techs the industry has been benefited by; It doesn't take a lot of brainpower to pass the NUF, but some procedure exams are not for the novice.  It takes one good mistake to shut down the industry with another 3 mile island by the less qualified.

Offline GLW

Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #22 on: Dec 23, 2014, 12:51 »
For RP Graduates in Tennessee:

The minimum wage in Seattle is irrelevant,...

The highest (in the nation) cost of living in the SanFran Bay area is irrelevant,...

There are essentially no honest mistakes any longer because in the modern era where INPO promoted massive investments into massive procedure libraries result in almost any mistake being a procedure violation, honest or not,....

We always remember the colleague terminated for a procedure violation, we rarely remember the colleagues "coached" or "counseled" because it is not as dramatic and is often none of our need to know anyways,...

The terminations are almost always preceded or followed by an O.E., and O.Es are need to know ad nauseum,....

Everybodies divorce rate is high, the road does not cause divorce, we all know folks who divorced years back and are on second or third marriages to cute young things, are still on the road, and yet somehow keep it in their pants currently, the road did not change, they did,.....

Every couple has to develop that balance of road versus house work that succeeds for them,.....

If you start RP and you like RP the coin will follow, if you would rather be a teacher or a lawyer and only do RP because the coin can be good without a vocational commitment, then during those times when the coin is lean your skillset may not be deep enough to allow continued coin success,...

But, if you have an affinity for it, you will have built your skillset beyond clearing and smearing and you will have coin options,....

if you do not have that affinity you may slide into writing maintenance procedures and be happy at that,....

Or may just become a GOB,....

Your choice,.....

« Last Edit: Dec 23, 2014, 12:54 by GLW »

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Content1

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #23 on: Dec 23, 2014, 03:21 »
For RP Graduates in Tennessee:

There are essentially no honest mistakes any longer because in the modern era where INPO promoted massive investments into massive procedure libraries result in almost any mistake being a procedure violation, honest or not,....

We always remember the colleague terminated for a procedure violation, we rarely remember the colleagues "coached" or "counseled" because it is not as dramatic and is often none of our need to know anyways,...

The terminations are almost always preceded or followed by an O.E., and O.Es are need to know ad nauseum,....
If you start RP and you like RP the coin will follow, if you would rather be a teacher or a lawyer and only do RP because the coin can be good without a vocational commitment, then during those times when the coin is lean your skillset may not be deep enough to allow continued coin success,...

But, if you have an affinity for it, you will have built your skillset beyond clearing and smearing and you will have coin options,....

if you do not have that affinity you may slide into writing maintenance procedures and be happy at that,....

Or may just become a GOB,....

Your choice,.....


I would say all are only in it for the coin.  Proof? I ask anybody if they won the big lottery, would they keep working.  I got 100% choice to leave.  If I were a professor at a university, the money wouldn't move me.  I'd be a rich professor verses an average one.  Why?  You said it in your post.  We are so procedure driven to remove the need for most of us to think.  It is a job, but not a real career.  With the threat of making any mistake hanging over us, the job is no longer fun.  With the freezing, in essence, of our wages there is no reason to strive.  So we work for bosses who are under the gun to get unrealistic amounts of work accomplished and lay us off at the earliest instance.  I am only saying this like a "Captain Obvious."  When people leave the business until things change nobody should be surprised.  This whole thread talked about someone being proud of being an HP; I only post this as someone in the business who plans to try other things.  In your post you did not counter any of the financial things I stated.  It has become not so great of a career choice for the costs given to be there.

nuke88

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Re: Radiation Protection Technician Graduate Advice !
« Reply #24 on: Dec 23, 2014, 05:30 »
The reason why I asked what part of the country you were from was specifically because I feel there is a different in the markets in Georgia/Tennessee/South Carolina than there is in California.  Where Nuke energy is very tough to run politically and thus financially on the West Coast, it seems that there is somewhat of a relative boom in the market here in the south (Vogtle, Watts Bar unit 2, ect). 
I was able to take a tour of San Onofre during the radiation protection forum, and it seemed the nuclear spirits in that part of the country were unfortunately low, whereas the managers presenting on behalf of Southern power and others were very optimistic. 

Like I stated, I am just a student, but I feel like your location plays a big part in the opportunity.  Correct me if I am wrong.  Also, a few of my friends have been making OUTSTANDING salaries in RP here in the south, with only a few years under their belt.   

I guess I am determined to be one of the optimistic ones!

 


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