NORM

[SloGlo]

anyone have any stories about norm beng present on a site that has caused health physics/radiation protection concerns?

[RDTroja]

You mean the big guy on Cheers who was always at the corner of the bar? Cliff Claven's friend?

[SloGlo]

i dunno why i even try anymore.... eye rilly, rilly don't...

[idrum4food]

Baton Rouge, LA for a company called Suntrak Svcs @ a BP oil refinery circa 1992. Seems we found 20k dpm/100cm2 on oil sludge. Had a lot of upset workers when we'd post a C-zone. "We been a doin this for 20 year. What's it a matterin now fer." Must not have been a big concern because we don't see many postings for HPs for oil refinery maint. outages.

Best two week job I ever had since it was during Mardi Gras. The only CONCERN we had was making it back to work the next day. Still have the sticker on my hard hat that says. "Warning... if you think N.O.R.M. is a guy who sits at Cheers and drinks beer all day, YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE !!! Suntrak Services, Inc. (713) 280-9982"

[RDTroja]

Any anti-nuclear activist will tell you that radiation from a power plant is harmful and the naturally occurring stuff isn't...  

[spw]

I worked for American Radiation Services, Inc. for seven years and our primary business was NORM.  We did surveys and project managment for sites contaminated with NORM at pipe yards, paper mills, refineries, oil field pumping units and tank batteries, gas wells, cooling towers and various other sites.  Typically the rad levels are very low, but I have had drums of scale to 50 mr and vessels over 100 mr.

[RDTroja]

At Crystal River in the early 80s we were doing a lot of work in the 'Hot Shop' with the roll-up door open for heat relief (Central Florida in September). We had an AMS-2 set up at the door and a 'danglometer' to tell wind direction (in or out of the door). Several times a day the AMS-2 would alarm and we would shut the door, change out the filter paper, take the used filter to Chemistry, GeLi it, find out the problem was from the fossil plants next door (coal), and re-open the door until the next alarm. Had to have something to do all day...

I was always amazed that they could contaminate our air, but we had to shut our doors when they did.

[DainJer]

What does the acronym N.O.R.M stand for?

curious minds wanna know  i almost worked the citgo plant near joliet this year...might be interesting stuff to know.

[radgal]

Naturally Occuring Radioactive Material

[retirednuke]

How about 100,000 dpm smearable alpha and 10mr/hr general area at a chemical processing plant

[wolf459]

I was doing a routine RBA survey at a DOE site for a subcontractor one cold and icey morning and came up with a consistent 20k all over the place. It seem the ice melt is pretty high in potasium salt. OOPs

[biloxi_blues]

Hey I was there also 4 weeks in Belle Chase, La.  We didnt get per diem check he just gave us 700 dollars in cash.  My foot got a blister from putting it in my shoe walking around Mardi Gras.  Norm was the last thing I was worried about since they had all those chemicals around there.

[atomicarcheologist]

I have consistently had difficulty with field readings on acoustical ceiling tile, when surveying them out of an area prior to commencement of decon/remediation activities.  The smears never showed anything,  I have pulled samples and had them sent off for analysis with the results back from management that the lab said that it was not an isotopic concern.  I just had the same thing where I am now, and was mentioning it to my RSO who took a sample and had it run on the gammma spec on site.  The results are: K40 52%; Zr89 1%Tl208 15%; Pb212 6%; Bi214 12%; Pb 214 12%; & U235 2%.  It's too bad that we are on a U site.

[radgal]

If you know what you have before hand and know that it has N.O.R.M.  Take a baseline reading as it comes in and if its  statistically the same going out its no problem.  Unopened containers of cement is what I come across the most, that and powdered Zr.

[SloGlo]

radgal... not to be belligerent... well, not this time anyway ... but what i was looking for was tales from the crypt about stuff that would not be suspect and how it got resolved.  


Atomic Archeologist... liked that one! yinze gots more?

[ex-turbine_cowboy]

Got fired from Trojan for not following the NORM - seems that a certain crew had woo'ed their tech's into allowing them to work their job with out facepumps.  I came in to cover and rectified the situation - needless to say I used terminology degrading to Blond Bimboos and was promptly canned for my unprofessional attitude!  Maybe thats why Trojan is no mo  

[Chimera]

Citgo Oil Refinery in Sulphur, LA this past February: Seems that a 90-Ci Ir-192 radiography source accidentally shorted out some welding cables during a radiography session.  The air eductors in the confined space did their job and blew the pieces out into the evening air.  Even though the plume was well mapped, we kept finding significant pieces in the walkways, roadways and on the pipes, vapor bodies and valves in all directions.  'Twas fun while it lasted.

Mike

[atomicarcheologist]

I had fun one night shift at a midwestern power plant east of cleveland.  A truck driver had backed his rig into the turbine building and made a remark that he hoped it would take awhile to get unloaded as he really wanted to get some shut eye and get caught up on his logbook.  Normally. that wasn't a problem, but this night everyone was very efficient and he was unloaded and ready to go in a couple of hours.  He was resigned to his fate of having to pull over outside the plant gate when I informed him that the HP survey had not yet been done, and since it was raining it might take awhile.  The plant in question used a "banjo" probe for release survey, and scintillation probes see alot.  It took about sixmore hours of reported high contamination levels to supervision before someone thought to ask what the alpha to beta ratio was.  Of course it only took about 40 seconds for the HP supervisor to realize that he had been sold a radon bag of goods.  But that was enough for a grateful driver to get back on the road with a smile on his face.  And this tech still has a smile on his face.

[radgal]

Radon is a hugh problem here in IL.  I always have my guys check themselfs on the monitor before entering CA to see how "hot" they are from home.

[SloGlo]

radgal... do you let the crew use their incoming monitoring results to baseline themselves against their exit monitoring?

[radgal]

SloGlo,  Only if absolutely necessary.  If they can wait to go in the lab until they decay I'll ask them too.  But if they can't I will use their reading as a baseline.  I also ask where they were during the day some buildings are known radon problems and basement homes are also a big problem.(I asked one foreman not to go down in his before coming to work.)  Radon also skitches around and different probes light up.  First it will be on their right hand then their left foot, then their left hand.  At some commercial plants they use anti-static spray to dispell the radon from people, or use bounce sheets on hard hats and shoes.  Also looking at the alpha to beta ratio is another good indicator I use.

[SloGlo]

i know the Rn skitching problem, it has to do with the chemical nature of the beast, i.e. that of being an extreme equilibrium seeker.  as such it is always attempting to go where no other radon is, unless of course, the electrical charge gets in the way, then it is drawn to the charge, which is why it is traveling....1) to seek equlibrium, and why it is sticking...2) electrical charge. quick fix for workers whose houses have build up in the basement is to have them leave a window cracked down there.  it doesn't take much for the gas to travel right out of the building seeking equilibrium with the environment!

[radgal]

SloGlo,
True enough.  However, we have some buildings that still have the problem even being ventilated.  Its been monitored and tracked and ventilated but still HELLO Rn.  Its my nemesis here.
Radgal

[SloGlo]

radgal.. one of the problems with ventilating for Rn is that equilibrium thingie... the faster you move it out, the faster it comes in.  one of the big reasons why no one offers Rn sealant... one pinhole in a floor slab, and you might as well not seal at all.

[idrum4food]

Some sand blasting media has NORM and does cause problems when used at Nuc facilities. Some treat it as rad waste when it's used and others gamma spec it before its used and then again after its used to prove it has no fission or activation products. This media is mostly used in non-RCA areas in the plant.