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Offline suelange

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Call for rad pro expert for research project
« on: May 13, 2017, 12:28 »
Hi there,


I'm an ex-nuke worker. Haven't been back to my plant since the 80s. These days I'm writing a play that takes place in a nuke plant. I'm  looking for data from one of those accident exercises. Specifically radiation measurements of the plume after a theoretical release of airborne radioactivity. Is there an online source for that kind of information?


Also, where in the plant, besides the reactor and the spent fuel pool, do you find the highest levels of radioactivity?



Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 12:48 »
Hi there,


I'm an ex-nuke worker. Haven't been back to my plant since the 80s. These days I'm writing a play that takes place in a nuke plant. I'm  looking for data from one of those accident exercises. Specifically radiation measurements of the plume after a theoretical release of airborne radioactivity. Is there an online source for that kind of information?


Also, where in the plant, besides the reactor and the spent fuel pool, do you find the highest levels of radioactivity?




Where ever the incore detectors are stored when out of the core, in the reactor sump, in the upper internals, in a shield wall but if interlocks do not work can be drawn into in the work space, in the case of B&W in a separate storage tank. This use to be one of the major causes of over exposure at one time (2 to 3 decades ago) in commercial power plants. Radiography is a potential source of high exposure but not to the extent of spent fuel or the incore detectors. I don't know it is still in use but I saw a portable linear accelerator used to do NDT of reactor safe ends where the reactor building itself was evacuated. Someone had the sense of unappreciated humor to announce the shot as operation of the death ray.  ;)

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 01:37 »
Where ever the incore detectors are stored when out of the core, in the reactor sump, in the upper internals, in a shield wall but if interlocks do not work can be drawn into in the work space, in the case of B&W in a separate storage tank. This use to be one of the major causes of over exposure at one time (2 to 3 decades ago) in commercial power plants. Radiography is a potential source of high exposure but not to the extent of spent fuel or the incore detectors. I don't know it is still in use but I saw a portable linear accelerator used to do NDT of reactor safe ends where the reactor building itself was evacuated. Someone had the sense of unappreciated humor to announce the shot as operation of the death ray.  ;)
I was the only RP and one of only two people in containment when that portable linear accelerator (MINAC) was used for the first time in a Nuclear Plant to take pictures of a repaired primary loop pipe... literally no one could tell me what to expect for dose due to scattering. We also called it the Death Ray and I remember being less than amused when the shot was about to take place. It was a major non-event on the scale of the Y2K bug.
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Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 01:48 »
Hi there,


I'm an ex-nuke worker. Haven't been back to my plant since the 80s. These days I'm writing a play that takes place in a nuke plant. I'm  looking for data from one of those accident exercises. Specifically radiation measurements of the plume after a theoretical release of airborne radioactivity. Is there an online source for that kind of information?


Also, where in the plant, besides the reactor and the spent fuel pool, do you find the highest levels of radioactivity?




I wish I could help more on the dose in the plume but it has been a long time since I operated the program. I remember 10s of thousands of rem but that was immersion dose at the exhaust point of ventilation. Strangely enough the limiting hazard for habitability in the control room was not radiation but Chlorine from a tank rupture of the treatment tanks for lake cooling water. Airborne contamination in the dispersed cloud primarily Iodine was of concern for the public.

We have lots of experts in different segments of Nuclear power hopefully they will chime in provided they are not concerned that you are writing another "China Syndrome"

https://www.remm.nlm.gov/nuclearaccident.htm#general

Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 01:52 »
I was the only RP and one of only two people in containment when that portable linear accelerator (MINAC) was used for the first time in a Nuclear Plant to take pictures of a repaired primary loop pipe... literally no one could tell me what to expect for dose due to scattering. We also called it the Death Ray and I remember being less than amused when the shot was about to take place. It was a major non-event on the scale of the Y2K bug.

Pilgrim 1984, I had a great time, some times too good.  8) Also the most dose of any project I worked, ALARA was more of a recommendation.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 02:41 »
I remember 10s of thousands of rem but that was immersion dose at the exhaust point of ventilation.... Airborne contamination in the dispersed cloud primarily Iodine was of concern for the public.


https://www.remm.nlm.gov/nuclearaccident.htm#general
as referenced above n inn this laymans link,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_dispersion_modeling
modeling a plume is a complex issue.  probly knot one yew want to get into on stage oar even inn the scripting. unless this is a play for upper echelon geeks.
guick n dirty calculations can use a formula fore the volume of a cone with the exhaust concentration diluted out in this volume for a burp style release.
quando omni flunkus moritati

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Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 03:21 »
literally no one could tell me what to expect for dose due to scattering.

If I remember correctly the beam itself at the accelerator port was over a million R/hr

Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 03:36 »
If I remember correctly the beam itself at the accelerator port was over a million R/hr

Found one and apparently they are still in use.

Dose Rate, cGy/min at 80cm- 415 [300–550]

http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/AccelConf/p05/PAPERS/RPAP027.PDF

  I can see a story about terrorists stealing one of these but only if the control system has been reduced significantly as there were a significant number of large control panels lined up outside the drywell in 84. Then a little artistic license would fix that.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 03:38 by Marlin »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 06:39 »
Found one and apparently they are still in use.

Dose Rate, cGy/min at 80cm- 415 [300–550]

http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/AccelConf/p05/PAPERS/RPAP027.PDF

  I can see a story about terrorists stealing one of these but only if the control system has been reduced significantly as there were a significant number of large control panels lined up outside the drywell in 84. Then a little artistic license would fix that.
digitalization wood shrink the control panels two a laptop oar too.
quando omni flunkus moritati

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dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline scotoma

Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2017, 08:17 »
Reality and plausibility are no longer a prerequisite for writing a play script. You are free to use poetic license to create any scenario you want. In this age of preposterousity, nothing seems to matter. The general public wouldn't know the difference anyhow. There are plenty of nuclear disaster videos on youtube that you can view. There are the tales of woe from Chernobyl, Fukashima, and TMI that you can review to get ideas. The accident scenarios from Nuke plant emergency drills are nothing more than fiction, and while they do have a higher technical content than fantasy, there are several flaws in their assumptions.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2017, 11:15 »
Reality and plausibility are no longer a prerequisite for writing a play script. You are free to use poetic license to create any scenario you want. In this age of preposterousity, nothing seems to matter. The general public wouldn't know the difference anyhow. There are plenty of nuclear disaster videos on youtube that you can view. There are the tales of woe from Chernobyl, Fukashima, and TMI that you can review to get ideas. The accident scenarios from Nuke plant emergency drills are nothing more than fiction, and while they do have a higher technical content than fantasy, there are several flaws in their assumptions.

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Sorry couldn't help myself.  [devious]
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 11:15 by Marlin »

Offline Marlin

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 11:29 »
Hi there,


I'm an ex-nuke worker. Haven't been back to my plant since the 80s. These days I'm writing a play that takes place in a nuke plant. I'm  looking for data from one of those accident exercises. Specifically radiation measurements of the plume after a theoretical release of airborne radioactivity. Is there an online source for that kind of information?


Also, where in the plant, besides the reactor and the spent fuel pool, do you find the highest levels of radioactivity?

 I have been thinking about how doing a play that focuses on a nuclear plant would work. Barney Miller the sitcom was suppose to be a comedy but when policemen were polled about which TV series most closely represented their day to day life it was the one they chose. A play centered around the control room with that kind of mix of humor and reality would be attractive to me. If you have never seen this show you are missing out.

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 02:54 »
I have been thinking about how doing a play that focuses on a nuclear plant would work. Barney Miller the sitcom was suppose to be a comedy but when policemen were polled about which TV series most closely represented their day to day life it was the one they chose. A play centered around the control room with that kind of mix of humor and reality would be attractive to me. If you have never seen this show you are missing out.
dune a new clear play in that mode wood bee grate wit Nukeworker.com as a source of inspiration four the script. all ready plenty of control room/ops threads hear, plus many fore radiation protection, maintenance... hail, theirs even a bathroom wall thread too source graffiti. gist knead a producer with the bawls to put it on.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline suelange

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 09:25 »
Hey all, thanks so much for the links and ideas. Lots for me to work with.

I am definitely not writing a China Syndrome. The play is not about the workings of a nuclear power plant or possibilities of "what could happen." It's a story about relationships between people that happen to work in a nuclear power plant. Nukes by their nature are perfect settings because of all the regulation, the tension at times, and paradox that everything is closely monitored by the powers that be, yet the place is still mysterious to outsiders.

BTW, I loved Barney Miller and feel that show was quite realistic. It was about people that happened to be cops.

So I'm going to follow up on the info here and see where it takes me. I agree about this being an "age of preposterousity" (really great line!). However, there is nothing like reality inserted into drama to make it more interesting, important, and just plain better.

Thanks, y'all. Be back soon.

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Re: Call for rad pro expert for research project
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 10:03 »
If I remember correctly the beam itself at the accelerator port was over a million R/hr

That was the number I was given, but calculating the scatter from the bowl and other metal objects was guesswork.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

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"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

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