Career Path > Navy Nuke
Starting mm a-school with Pregnant fiancé. Looking for advice
spekkio:
--- Quote from: GLW on Jul 28, 2019, 09:13 ---actually it was an XO, in the XO's stateroom, who eventually became a Rear-Admiral, you probably know of him,....
--- End quote ---
Really doesn't matter what his name is. What he said to you as an XO demonstrated poor leadership. Hopefully he's matured since then, having done both a command and major command tour.
--- Quote ---so, let me tell the OP some hard truth straight from the O-gangers keyboard,... "just prepare your spouse for the reality",....
you're gonna be told that your spouse has to understand the reality of the Naval Service a lot pal,....
--- End quote ---
I used those words because as a 22 year old, OP is likely working his first 'real job' (as in, he will develop a specialized skillset that can't be immediately replaced by any Joe off the street and will be personally important to the organization's success) and his fiance is probably younger than even he is. I would use the same phrase if he were embarking on a career as a software engineer, accountant, doctor, lawyer, or any other industry that entails long hours and low pay in the junior phases of their career paths. There is a balance and there are going to be times where the job gets higher priority, military or otherwise - that is the "prepare your fiance for the reality" part. OP could decide to work a 35-40 hour a week cubicle gig or labor trade, but they tend to not pay very well and have limited growth potential.
--- Quote ---so let me advise the OP, who hopefully can pick up what I have been laying down this whole thread,....
you're a blueshirt, you're being forged to be an integral cog in the Navy machine, but you're just a cog,...
and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a good, honorable thing,....
when you're a cog assigned to a machine (aka as a carrier or a submarine), then the machine needs that cog to be on the machine,...
you are not a ready spare (unless you're on shore duty, which is a rest and repair phase for the cog),...
if the cog has a family, which you now have, then understand that the machine will support your family so that you "the cog" can support the machine,....
the previous poster (an Officer and a Gentleman) has not stated anything different,...
all of his carefully crafted managerial statements always stress the Navy supports your family so that you can support the Navy,...
there is a breaking point where that support doesn't cut it anymore,...
--- End quote ---
The difference is that my tone doesn't sound like there's some ulterior motive to the Navy taking care of its people (e.g., your use of 'just a cog in the machine'). Any any other quality, professional organization who has good management will take ensure that it helps cater to employees' personal needs. It turns out that decades of research shows that employees are more productive if they aren't stressed about issues at home. That's one of the core tenets of management. And again, every senior leader I've ever encountered in 11 years of service has genuinely cared about their people's well being - not because the Navy tells them to, but because they're good people who actually care about others. I can't say I've had such a 'hit' rate when I worked in corporate America in a former life. And some industries (like restaurant/service) simply won't give two shits about your family life because there's another swinging dick behind you who can do the job without strings attached, and if you don't work you just don't get paid - assuming you keep the job.
The Navy might not be the best organization to support family needs, but it's definitely above average. And every single case I've heard where a spouse is mad at "the Navy" or "the command" because their husband couldn't "get time off for [insert important family event/milestone]," it's because Sailor Timmy didn't even pipe up to ask for the time. Even on submarines, we can almost always support giving the time or even leaving a Sailor in-port for important family events - yes, even during ORSE. You can get into the whole 'intrusive leadership' philosophy here (personally I hate that phrase - what we're really trying to say is that we actually have to be managers as well as leaders), but at the end of the day an NCO with a family at home needs to have the stones to talk to his Chief about getting time off when he needs it.
If you're trying to say that the deployments followed by perpetual 3-section duty in-port was too much for your family (the latter also usually being a result of poor leadership), then I get it and that's a different discussion. Would I tell OP to purposefully have children as a junior enlisted Sailor because it's all rainbows and unicorns? No, but that ship has sailed, so it's a moot point.
But don't make it sound like there's some facade going on here based on a couple of negative interactions you had with leadership. There isn't one.
GLW:
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 10:05 ---
..........If you're trying to say that the deployments followed by perpetual 3-section duty in-port was too much for your family (the latter also usually being a result of poor leadership), then I get it and that's a different discussion. Would I tell OP to purposefully have children as a junior enlisted Sailor because it's all rainbows and unicorns? No, but that ship has sailed, so it's a moot point.
--- End quote ---
it was not leadership, it was manning,....
building to a 600 ship Navy and going to sea constantly (1263 days underway on nuclear power in a 5 year sea tour over two different commands) to rattle sabers at the Soviets,...
if the Navy is more laid back and accommodating nowadays well then so much the better for sailors serving in a salad days Navy,...
compared to the WW2 guys, we were running around in air conditioned hotels,...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 10:05 ---
The difference is that my tone doesn't sound like there's some ulterior motive to the Navy taking care of its people (e.g., your use of 'just a cog in the machine'). Any any other quality, professional organization who has good management will take ensure that it helps cater to employees' personal needs. It turns out that decades of research shows that employees are more productive if they aren't stressed about issues at home. That's one of the core tenets of management.....
--- End quote ---
well we can go insane and off-course taking on that tangent,....
I am intrigued that the Navy looks upon sailors as "employees",...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 10:05 ---
....Even on submarines, we can almost always support giving the time or even leaving a Sailor in-port for important family events.....
--- End quote ---
understanding it's the Navy that defines important,...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 10:05 ---But don't make it sound like there's some facade going on here based on a couple of negative interactions you had with leadership. There isn't one.
--- End quote ---
as I have stated numerous times around these forums;
excluding my family, the Navy was the easiest job I have ever had,...
show up on time, perform as instructed, do not leave without permission to leave,...
crux being, if the Navy says you cannot leave, you cannot,...
most of the time, this will not be a problem that cannot be remedied at EAOS,...
but when it cannot be remedied, you are contractually owned to the needs of the Navy,...
and I believe that missing movement is still punishable under the UCMJ,...
there are consequences for "missing movement" in CIVLANT, but not punishment, not forfeiture of liberty to come and go,...
and the OP still needs to understand the seriousness of that bottom line in the USN,...
and a fiancee and a child may very well have to take a back seat to duty,...
it goes with the uniform,....
if you say it doesn't, then the Navy has changed,...
hamsamich:
honestly...I think GLW was spot on for the Navy that I remember late 80s to mid 90s. It all depended on your command and to a lesser extent how they felt about you. Navy leadership was like a box of chocolates. The people in your chain of command had all the power and pretty much full control over your life. My last CO was decent, and that made the last year on my sub tolerable (Ostendorf, former NRC commissioner). But my first CO was horrid (R....) and made life miserable for everyone, compounded by our terrible XO (M.....) and rubber minded yes-men on the way down to MLPO. Maybe Spekio had great people in charge of him and under him, but the problem with the Navy is life could be great one minute, and with a blink of the eye disintegrate in front of you. People complained to squadron, but nothing was done....nobody cared really, to them we were all a bunch of blueshirt whiners...no really. You can say all you want about your own personal experiences and I will believe them but this is what happened to me...most of us felt the same way....all the ELTs all the Mdiv guys all the Ediv guys...even some of the chiefs.
GLW:
--- Quote from: fiveeleven on Jul 28, 2019, 09:53 ---I had a feeling that was Richard Gere.
--- End quote ---
I have a lot of respect for the insights spekkio brings to these forums,....
very few O-gangers contribute here,...
my reckoning is that he and I see just about eye to eye on about 72.6% of things,...
but the perspective and the USN experience between enlisted and officer is real,...
I mean, unless things have really changed I imagine Officers still sit in a wardroom and still have their meal served to them on the ship's service china,...
not quite the same as standing in line and eating off of pyrex,...
I cannot remember the last enlisted man who was sent to earn a master's degree as part of his service term to the nation,...
no matter how smart he or she was,....
but I know a few and know of many officers who did,....
it's a different world for the two types of service, I'm pretty sure that carries over to the Officer compensation package, including the Fleet and Family support programs,....
maybe I'm wrong,...
GLW:
--- Quote from: hamsamich on Jul 28, 2019, 02:37 ---honestly...I think GLW was spot on for the Navy that I remember late 80s to mid 90s. It all depended on your command and to a lesser extent how they felt about you.....
--- End quote ---
you probably need to edit out those deleterious names,....
we don't typically do that around here,....
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