Are the recruiters right?

[Tyler2786]

I have a question about "spots open" for the enlisted nuclear schooling.  My recruiter says they only have 3 spots open for power schooling for the rest of this year (until sept. 2006) and that if I want to be gauranteed a spot, I need to sign up now.  First of all, are there a pre-set number of positions to go to power school, and if so, can my recruiter actually gaurantee me one of them before I go to MEPS and sign up??  Also, I would like to sign up by thanksgiving to go to bootcamp in mid July of 06.  If my power school didnt start until after september, would that mean more spots would be open or how would that work?? I'm stuck between a rock and hard place right now so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot.

-Tyler

[Tyler2786]

Thats what I thought too ( and was afraid of)... anyone know for sure how it works? I need something to compare them with.

[Shonkatoys]

I was a Nuclear Officer in the Army and Executive officer of a Training company.   Bottom line is always get everything in writing to include bonuses if promised.  Many of my recruits said they were promised bonuses but did not sign for one.  I think in some cases they did not know and found out from buddies that they can get bonuses for passing Nuke school then said their recruiter lied.  Thats how the Army looked at it. No signature no proof.  Also talk to many recruiters.   Find out the best deal like buying a car. You going pay for the first car you see and not haggle and see if you can get a better deal else where and see if the car dealer you are dealing with is giving you a load of crap, DO NOT DO that with your life.  Know your ASVAB scores or get a copy and go to numerous recruiters.  You can even talk to a Army, Marine recruiter etc. to see if you gat a better deal.  You can use this to bargain against your Navy guy as long as you do not sign.  Find out bonuses, college etc,  The Army Speciality for Nuclear is Nuclear, Biological, Chemical specialist.  Go to the Army recruiter, tell him you are thinking about this get what he will give you in writing and go to the Navy guy and act torn up, I do not know which is best, can you give me a better deal.  If not go to another navy recruiter. Or go to another navy recruiter and not tell him you talked to another recruiter and see if he feeds you the same pile.  Sounds like your recruiter is trying hard to meet his quota and is trying to serve you a steaming pile of guano.  But talk to another he may not, but I bet my paycheck he is!!

[MomGlows]

The process as I remember it (last couple of months):
Son said he wanted to join the Navy.
Recruiter contacted him (we thought because son sent the card in, but it was not, it was a routine call)
Recruiter came to the house a couple of times. I did as much research as I could on the 'procedure.' Recruiter seemed to be saying things that were backed up by what I found.
Son went to MEPS, took ASVAB there.  Scored high enough to be eligible to take a test for the Nuke program, they even had a nuclear recruiter there to talk to us. We had never heard of the nuke program.
At MEPS, son had to choose a rate in case he didn't pass the nuke test. He chose with the idea that's what he'd be doing the next 6 yrs, signed all the papers. I knew about the bonuses available from online, but he was told what the bonus was, and got the paperwork for it.
2 wks later he took the nuke test, passed, had to do paperwork all over again, which canceled out the paperwork from MEPS. He was told of the bonus, given paperwork stating the change in rate, and the bonus offereed after nuke school
I even commented to the recruiter that I appreciated his 'soft sell' method because my protective mother mode would have surfaced if I had sensed even a hint of dishonesty.
Of course, there could have been lies we are not aware of, but I don't think so.
Through the whold process he was told he was not guarateed anything until it was in writing and could not be promised a rate until MEPS.
The recruiter commented that he wanted to get things rolling because the longer we waited, the fewer rates available. Now, was he saying that just to get son in to meet quota? I don't know. He said he was required to sign up one kid/mo, and he already had 4 that month.
They did seem to be in a hurry to get the nuke thing going.
My son went to MEPS Sept 14 I believe, signed paperwork for nuke 2 wks ago, the soonest he could leave for BC is Aug 9, 2006. He has to graduate from high school first, in May of 06.They asked if he could graduate early, I said no, he will not. He won't be 18 until April, so I had final say in that.
Throughout the whole process, I got the feeling nothing was guaranteed until he signed the papers.
If you go to BC in Sept, the bonus after nuke school is $12,000. Aug and before, $8000.
Keep in mind while you're in DEP, you can back out.

[taterhead]

I do not know whether or not what he is saying is accurate, but I do know that YOU, and only YOU, hold all the cards.  If you want to leave in July, stick to your guns.  Tell him you will walk away (even if you won't).  Tell him you are contacting the AF recruiter or that you have spoken with them.  I hate to say it, but it can be alot like purchasing a car.  Remember, until you sign up, you are the customer.

That said, we are in a downsizing mode in the Navy, and I do not necessarily doubt that spots are filling up.  However, all of that is fluid.  DEPers and recruiters drop out daily, affecting the real numbers.  I can't fathom how there are "reserved" spots for August.  When I joined (9 years ago), I went to MEPS, signed up, left for bootcamp two weeks later as a nuke.  No spots to fill, etc.

Oh well, keep us posted.

[Tyler2786]

Thank you to everyone for the experience and the help, I really appreciate it!  The first day I went to the recruiters, the nuke officer from Jacksonville just happened to be there administering the nuke test to someone else so they had me sit down and take it as well.  Aced that one even though I hadnt taken the ASVAB yet (still dont know how that happened ).  So tomorrow I am taking a local ASVAB to make sure I qualify with line scores then I've gotta see when I can get to MEPS.  If there is an extra $4000 signing bonus to leave in august compared to July (when i wanted) that might be worth the chill.  Also, as MomGlows said, if her son signed up a few weeks ago and CANT get in till sept, even august may be a snowballs chance... I'll let ya'll know what happens. 

Cant thank you guys enough!!
Tyler

[MomGlows]

Thank you to everyone for the experience and the help, I really appreciate it!  The first day I went to the recruiters, the nuke officer from Jacksonville just happened to be there administering the nuke test to someone else so they had me sit down and take it as well.  Aced that one even though I hadnt taken the ASVAB yet (still dont know how that happened ).  So tomorrow I am taking a local ASVAB to make sure I qualify with line scores then I've gotta see when I can get to MEPS.  If there is an extra $4000 signing bonus to leave in august compared to July (when i wanted) that might be worth the chill.  Also, as MomGlows said, if her son signed up a few weeks ago and CANT get in till sept, even august may be a snowballs chance... I'll let ya'll know what happens. 

Cant thank you guys enough!!
Tyler

August is still $8000
Sept starts the $12,000 period

[Already Gone]

My son went to MEPS Sept 14 I believe, signed paperwork for nuke 2 wks ago, the soonest he could leave for BC is Aug 9, 2006. He has to graduate from high school first, in May of 06.They asked if he could graduate early, I said no, he will not. He won't be 18 until April, so I had final say in that.

Just one minor caveat:  if your son is 17 years old, he does NOT need your permission to enlist or ship.  When I was recruiting, we always told the moms, "This paper you are signing is not giving your child permission to join the Navy.  It is merely permission for the Government to give him a physical."  This was true, but we DIDN'T say that Sonny didn't NEED permission to join the Navy.

So, while a minor under 18 needs a parent's permission to take a physical, he doesn't need permission to enlist or ship off to boot camp.  The only way a parent can prevent an enlistment is to refuse permission for the physical.  They could take a chance and enlist him without a physical.  Once he is enlisted, they no longer need your permission.  But rest assured that they will NEVER do that.  There is too much risk that they could sign up someone with a serious medical condition for which they would become liable for treatment and maybe even a medical pension.  There is also an element of bad public relations involved with pulling a stunt like that.

Still, once you have signed for the physical, they WILL enlist and ship 17 year-olds and tell you about it later.

[MomGlows]

Just one minor caveat:  if your son is 17 years old, he does NOT need your permission to enlist or ship.  When I was recruiting, we always told the moms, "This paper you are signing is not giving your child permission to join the Navy.  It is merely permission for the Government to give him a physical."  This was true, but we DIDN'T say that Sonny didn't NEED permission to join the Navy.

So, while a minor under 18 needs a parent's permission to take a physical, he doesn't need permission to enlist or ship off to boot camp.  The only way a parent can prevent an enlistment is to refuse permission for the physical.  They could take a chance and enlist him without a physical.  Once he is enlisted, they no longer need your permission.  But rest assured that they will NEVER do that.  There is too much risk that they could sign up someone with a serious medical condition for which they would become liable for treatment and maybe even a medical pension.  There is also an element of bad public relations involved with pulling a stunt like that.

Still, once you have signed for the physical, they WILL enlist and ship 17 year-olds and tell you about it later.

Thanks for the correction. We won't tell son ; )
Luckily I don't think he wants to graduate early.

[Shonkatoys]

The 5000 dollar bonus I mentioned  was a few years back for the Army.  The bonus is now 20,000 with a call in the 2006 appropriation bill to move it to 30,000.  Also in the appropriation bill a 50,000 Mortgage pay if you sign up for 8 years.  The 30,000 and 50,000 not approved yet.  So I guess this would egual a 10,000 a year bonus.  If I had to do it again I would do guard and go to school and never go active duty unless called up, even with these bonuses. But you might want to wait and find out if these have a chance of passing, I would ask my represenative, not my recruiter who may say no if he has a quota to meet or go to Iraq!

[jericho]

The Selective Enlistment Bonus for enlisted nukes is not $8000 for August and the $12000 for September.
It is based on recruiting quotas for the winter months. $8000 from May to September, $10000 for October to December, $12000 for January to April. I think is is pretty accurate - it is to promote nukes waiting to the winter months so RTC isn't so crowded in the summer months.
 
I can't find a link right now, but there are some Power Schoolers right now (MMs) who got the 12k, wheras most of us EMs/ETs only got the 8K for going to boot camp prior to November.

Also, ask tell your local recuriter that you would like a day to sit down and talk with the regional enlisted nuke program recruiter - they are nukes on recruiting duty that can answer most of your questions and won't give you the same line of crap that a non-nuke recuiter will.

[Tyler2786]

Thanks for all the help so far everyone.  Just a week or so away from finally makin the big plunge! 
One other question i thought of though.  Is the Navy-CASH program still around.  Ive found military websites that say it is, but my recruiter has never heard of it, any ideas?  Thanks alot.

[Blazer]

In regards to the Navy Cash Program, it has been canceled.  There are still a couple of people that have not shipped, but the program stopped accepting new applications in MAY05.  As far as the Nuke Bonuses go here is the current break down:

Jun/Jul/Aug/Sep=$8,000
Oct/Nov= $10,000
Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar/Apr/May=$12,000

As far as the number of spots open, that depends on what region/recruiting district your Depping from.  There is a specific number per month that are allowed into the program, and it is not flexible, (level loading).  But if someone doesn't ship at the last moment, (ie. twisted ankle, open civil involvement) that spot would open up.  Ask to talk to the Nuclear Field Recruiter for the recruiting district.

Nothing will be guaranteed until you actually process through MEPS and qualify for the job, then it will be included into your contract that you'll sign.

Good Luck

[Shaldyr]

Just one minor caveat:  if your son is 17 years old, he does NOT need your permission to enlist or ship.  When I was recruiting, we always told the moms, "This paper you are signing is not giving your child permission to join the Navy.  It is merely permission for the Government to give him a physical."  This was true, but we DIDN'T say that Sonny didn't NEED permission to join the Navy.

So, while a minor under 18 needs a parent's permission to take a physical, he doesn't need permission to enlist or ship off to boot camp.  The only way a parent can prevent an enlistment is to refuse permission for the physical.  They could take a chance and enlist him without a physical.  Once he is enlisted, they no longer need your permission.  But rest assured that they will NEVER do that.  There is too much risk that they could sign up someone with a serious medical condition for which they would become liable for treatment and maybe even a medical pension.  There is also an element of bad public relations involved with pulling a stunt like that.

Still, once you have signed for the physical, they WILL enlist and ship 17 year-olds and tell you about it later.

This has apparently changed since you were in recruiting.  The DD form 1966/5 (Parental Consent Form) for your Military Record requires not only consent, for an applicant 17 years of age, from both parents in order to enlist or ship, but also can be repealed at ANY time.  If MomGlows' son joined at the age of 17, under her consent, and even turned 18 while in DEP, she still has the right to revoke his page 5 (parental consent) and prevent him from shipping.

It is only by signing the DD 2807-2 (Medical Prescreening) Form that a parent (only 1 required) gives consent for a medical physical at MEPS.  I've read quite a bit of the questions posted on the sight and have to admit while I feel that much of the information being put out is in good nature very often it seems a bit outdated.  Currently, I'm serving on recruiting duty and can assure you that the CRUITMAN (our bible for knowing who is qualified and how to put them in) is revised approximately every two months and was completely rewritten in April 2005 (when the reserves & active recruiting were merged).

[shayne]

I've read quite a bit of the questions posted on the sight and have to admit while I feel that much of the information being put out is in good nature very often it seems a bit outdated.  Currently, I'm serving on recruiting duty and can assure you that the CRUITMAN (our bible for knowing who is qualified and how to put them in) is revised approximately every two months and was completely rewritten in April 2005 (when the reserves & active recruiting were merged).

Please update any outdated information on this forum.  The latest and most accurate information here can help those with questions and some of us that have been out of the Nuclear Navy for some time.

[Already Gone]

Amen to that.  It feels like a time warp when someone mentions that Adm. Bowman has retired from Naval Reactors.  My only memory of him was Commander Bowman, XO of the Bremerton.

[shayne]

He, Adm. Bowman is now the President of Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI).

[Medayo]

What no spots til' September? I just signed my nuke contract last tuesday and my shipping date is April 12, 2006.

[Shaldyr]

I think its the recruiter's job to say anything just to get you to sign now, because everything you said sounded like bull*%#t.

Sometimes it feels that way   Seriously though, while the news goes on and on about the military missing it's recruiting goals, the Navy has not missed in several years (and unless I haven't heard of it I know Navy recruiting went over 3 years straight without missing a month even) and will not likely be in danger of missing anytime soon.  In fact, due to the overmanned state of the Navy, recruiting requirements are climing quite a bit.  That said, there are definately still recruiters out there that just plain suck.  I've worked beside a few and I've also worked beside many who truely do see you as a person and not just a number.

First of all, are there a pre-set number of positions to go to power school, and if so, can my recruiter actually gaurantee me one of them before I go to MEPS and sign up??

1) Yes, there is most definately a pre-set number of positions available to go to nuclear power school and that is determined by the program's manning and how many students they want in each class.  One of the main reasons that the Navy has moved to the Delayed Entry Program being utilized for more than simply high school seniors is to "book" all of the needed seats for each graduating class in advance.  That said, the Navy is always in need or qualified Nukes and will -make- a seat available if someone qualifies.
2) Your recruiter cannot and should not make any gaurantees as to when you can ship to RTC prior to you going to MEPS.  Only a job classifer / nuclear program coordinator has access to that information as RTC ship dates are based on being set 8 weeks prior your "A" school beginning classes.  We do often however have a reasonable idea based on the dates we see people in that field getting in the last few weeks or your recruiter may have simply called and asked the nuclear program coordinator in advance.  So he could be full of it or not, but the only way you can tell for certain would be to go to MEPS and find out what dates are available.

[Already Gone]

Thanks for clearing that up.  This is a fine example of how you can help keep this site up to date.  Back in my day ( when we were still splitting the atoms with a chisel), They would ship you and worry about filling classes later.  This frequently resulted in backlog upon backlog.  Some sailors waited on barracks-mopping/lawn-mowing detail for weeks before A school, then for a few weeks awaiting NPS.  Some were even sent to the fleet prior to A school or NPS.  For the ET's, EM's and IC's the BEEp school took even longer.
The end result was a lot of nukes graduating from prototype with half of their six year hitch already over.
There were worse things too.  Some ET's made E-4 while still in A school because of the delays.  Since A school was self-paced back then, the promotion cancelled any incentive to finish in a timely fashion.  Worse than that, a lot of new PO3's went to the fleet to await orders to NPS and got "scuttled".  That is - they were the victims of the jealous nuke-haters of the conventional fleet, who did their best to get them busted (and sometimes denuked) before they ever even got to NPS.  Those who made it to NPS with a row of ribbons on their shirts usually came with a bad attitude and sloppy habits.
The practice of DEPping them until a seat is open for them ensures that they get to NPS while they are still "fresh".  In my opinion, that's the only way to train baby nukes.  You have to start in the formative stage before they become sailors, or you'll never get them to acquire the necessary habits.
Good to know that they're handling it this way.  Thanks for the info, and please post here regularly.  These kids and parents are dying to know this kind of stuff, and you are probably the best equipped to inform them.

[PWHoppe]

  Thanks for the info, and please post here regularly.  These kids and parents are dying to know this kind of stuff, and you are probably the best equipped to inform them.

I usually don't post in this section but I just want to throw in my gratitude for your posts also. I too would like to encourage you to continue to post here as it adds enormously to the credibility of NukeWorker as the site to go to when you want to find out what the "real deal" is. I thank you so much for lending your expertise and welcome you aboard, and thank you for serving our country. As an ex-bubble head I truly appreciate all the sacrifices you make for all of us.

[graydragon67]

Way back when, I was told the same thing by my recruiter.  It was Feb and I was told that I could ship out in Aug.  Then May rolls around and I get a phone call.  I was told I could ship in two weeks due to a billet opening up.  Of course I took it.  Which really upset my Dad, oh well.

Now you need to remember to ask yourself, Why is there a billet open now and not before?  Simply put, somebody either failed out or was removed from the pipeline.  When I went thru Power school I was in a class of 1400+.  Six months later I graduated with barely 400.  Get the picture?  It wasn't all due to grades.  A lot of it had to do with Jr. being away from Mom and Dad and letting loose.  Well, as much as you can in the Military.  Which isn't a true statement either.  Seeing how the Pipeline isn't really the Military if you ask me.  Not like the Fleet.  Not even remotely close.

I hope you go thru and join up.  It is a world of adventure.  BUT, not all of the time.  For all of the good times there are Miserable times.  I will gladly tell you about drunken capers in the night life of Tokyo.  I will NOT tell you about the boring drudgery off the coast of some country for two months. 

I wish you the best and good luck!