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Snechkus

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PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« on: Apr 25, 2006, 07:50 »
Hello from Lithuania (know such country :) ). Sorry for off topic but  have not found any information about free IAEA simulators. I have second question do u know where can I download PWR/BWR  for free :).
Tomorrow is a sad day for all friendly atomic energy industry and for people two.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006, 07:51 by Snechkus »

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #1 on: Apr 25, 2006, 10:39 »
I hope I can be of help. The IAEA provides simulator support for developing countries; as a former Soviet Union state I am sure Lithuania qualifies. Here is an excerpt from a vendor of software:

If your country is a member state of IAEA and you are interested in IAEA's training program in Advanced Reactor Simulation, please contact your country's representative or the IAEA directly or Mr. Robert Lyon (R.Lyon@iaea.org) of IAEA.

from this page:

http://www.microsimtech.com/ars/page6.htm


Due to non-proliferation issues, I don't think this is available over open channels. Let us know if there is more we can do....
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Snechkus

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #2 on: Apr 25, 2006, 12:05 »
Yes Lithuania is an IAEA member. I know the procedure how to get these simulators directly from IAEA. But my attempts have not brought any results. Those simulators are not for military use and not containing secret information. So if you can please can you share it with me.

 This night at 1:23 am at local Ukrainian time 20 years ago . The explosion at unit 4 reactor at Chernobyl npp takes place. Bringing the death radiation to many people. Large territory were abandon with the town Pripyat(where nuclear workers had lived). I hope it will never happen again.

Sorry for my English grammar.

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #3 on: Apr 25, 2006, 12:29 »
We also hope to never see that again.

I don't think the IAEA simulator software has been released for public use. The only simulator software I have seen has been specific to the plant where I worked.

With the terrorist concerns (Chechnya and al-Qaeda) I don't think it will be easy to get a copy. I will see if I can find anything else for you.....


No apologies for the English are necessary. Your writing is much easier to understand than some of our own members (Pittsburgh Steeler fans, mostly)!
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Snechkus

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #4 on: Apr 25, 2006, 12:56 »
Thank you for your replies. Hope you will find something for me.

It is interesting at what NPP you were working and do you work at nuclear industry at the moment.
I had a dream to work at our Lithuanian Ignalina   NPP. But after then EU had forced Lithuania to close power plant. My dream has gone. I my opinion it is very wrong to do it because more than 80% of all electrical energy in Lithuania were produced by INPP. Unit 1 is was shutdown in 2004.12.31 and Unit 2 will be shut down at 2009.
If you want you can visit  Ignalina NPP web page it is at:

http://www.iae.lt/inpp_en.asp?lang=1&sub=234

this web resource contains video-photo gallery and other interesting information about  power plant

Here you can see situation at NPP in real time:  http://www.iae.lt/inpp_en.asp?lang=1&subsub=9

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #5 on: Apr 25, 2006, 01:13 »
This is fantastic! While I understand the international community's concern about the design of the RBMK reactors, it is a pity to see the units shutdown.

There is no real-time information for US NPPs available like the link you posted.

I am currently at Sequoyah Nuclear Power Plant in Soddy-Daisy, TN, US. I have worked a few other nuclear plants in the US as well.

http://www.nukeworker.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=107

You put my dream to work at Bellefonte in perspective; that is the plant near my hometown that was not completed.

http://www.nukeworker.com/pictures/thumbnails.php?album=95
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Marco

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #6 on: Apr 25, 2006, 02:04 »
HI Snechkus and Roll Tide,
the Head of Training Division of the German Biblis NPP has programmed a nice PWR simulator. I'm doing a web check and tell you the URL then.   ;)
There are major concerns regarding RBMK's in the former Soviet Union here in Western-Europe. People get remembered on the accident 20 years ago, when they hear RBMK. But they also fear LWRs, so it doesn't matter what kind of reactor you run.

Here in Germany the people are mostly anti-nuke, and the former government forced the energy companies to sign a phase-out contract.Quite a sad story, but I don't want to start to complain again ..............   :'(

Later............ 8)

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #7 on: Apr 25, 2006, 02:37 »
Thanks Marco,
I was trying to tread water long enough for you to come save me. I was definitely in over my head!

What do you think of the links to the INPP? Real-time data!
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #8 on: Apr 25, 2006, 03:24 »
I like the website very much. There are a lot of information and it's a great source for information about RBMK. Ther former German government was involved in the forced shut down of unit 1. I must admit, I'm not a fan of the RBMK-technology, but on the other hand I'm not familiar with it. I learned not much on Power Plant School about this kind of reactor, only the LWR stuff. I'm quite curious how they are going to fill their energy gap after 2009 when unit 2 is also off grid. With energy imports? I assume their is no other option. The EU forced them to shut the plants, and then export energy for hard $$$ to them. Is this fair?

I don't know any other plant-website with online data, by the way.

Marco

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #9 on: Apr 25, 2006, 04:01 »
Snechkus,
the website of the PC-based PWR simulator is not longer available, but I found the file on my computer. Are you interested? Send me a IM if you want the English edition.

Snechkus

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #10 on: Apr 25, 2006, 04:25 »
As you    know after 1986 disaster at Chnpp. The Soviet nuclear industry had a knockout most of the future plans for building nuclear power plants and  plants on construction were canceled. First to analyze the safety of operating plants. Second most of politics and people said against this source of energy. Most plans for continue building the energy units on NPP's witch  using RBMK reactors nowadays like Kursk, Smolensk,  Ignalina,  Leningrad  NPP's  were canceled.

The RBMK can be using for the military. But most NPP's had this type of reactor because the production of this type of reactor  was well developed but not for military use. And RBMK reactor at Chernobyl was been used only for civil energy.

  

Now how RBMK reactor was upgraded.

The minuses like:

Positive steam affect

Manual shut down    of  security system by personnel

Positive SCRAM effect

 Not so well operating system for the search of rods in the active zone (you need more time to know how much rods are in the active zone at the moment).

 

All of them were  fixed and know the RBMK reactor don't have any of this minuses which I wrote.

 

 About the containment. If accident like Chernobyl would had place at the plant with containment. The effect would be the same because the explosion was equal to about 10-20 tons of Trinitrotoluene the containment would not stand this force. The contaiment was consructed for the maximum accident like leakage   of the fuel and water  from reactor vessel.

 

 I had spoke( VIA internet) with one man who works on ChNPP. All of them are professionals one of them who was working as reactor operator(don't know how its in English) at block 3. He said that PWR reactor has reached it's safety level. But RBMK's has not. So RBMK can be more safer then PWR but new construction of this type reactor is canceled and I think will not continue for many years.

Know I and many more people waiting that will happen after 2009 then unit 2 at INPP will be shutdown. I don’t know where we can get such cheap energy.  Basic power plants which works on gas more expensive and making more pollutions to the atmosphere.

EU don’t even maters that will happen with Lithuania they want make us like slaves of they massive economic.
About RBMK I have more information about this reactor even containing graphics but it is all in Russian. If you want I can search in English but it will contain less information then in Russian.
I heard about 2020 program in Germany then all NPP’s will be shutdown.

Marco and Roll Tide I hope you will find something for me :)

Today is day of Chernobyl’s catastrophe so if you want you can visit http://www.pripyat.com/en/ web page about which ware made by people who lived in Pripyat(ghost town). Which is 3 km from ground zero reactor. Look the Gallery and the Forum it  is  can used be English speaking visitors to. It is like another world…A world were Nature were Nature rules and Human is unwanted. It’s a story with a bad end
      
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006, 04:40 by Roll Tide »

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #11 on: Apr 25, 2006, 04:36 »
Snechkus,

Send a Private Message to Marco; you do this by clicking on his name. He should be able to send you the simulator you are looking for.

Thanks for helping us to think a little differently today.

Iwant to see a new generation of nuclear in Lithuania, since this was promised (or implied) by the EU in exchange for the shutdown of the RBMK-1500s.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Marco

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #12 on: Apr 26, 2006, 05:52 »
Now how RBMK reactor was upgraded.

The minuses like:

Positive steam affect

Manual shut down    of  security system by personnel

Positive SCRAM effect

 Not so well operating system for the search of rods in the active zone (you need more time to know how much rods are in the active zone at the moment).

 

All of them were  fixed and know the RBMK reactor don't have any of this minuses which I wrote.


Are you sure, that one can fix the problem of a positive steam effect or a possitive SCRAM effect with upgrading? I think it's the physical behaviour of this kind of reactor and it's not modifiable. ???
The EU should offer your country a state of the art NPP like the new EPR or ABWR, and give you cheap bank credits. Lithuania wishes to be a member of the EU, but the economic boundary conditions are not fulfilled yet. We can support you but not pay your bills. Therefore the EU should support you with credits and modern technology. Reliable and cheap power generation is the key for an up coming economy.
The German majority really belives that we can replace our NPPs with renewables like windmills and hydros. We can not afford to close our NPPs, because we have the highest energy prices in Europe, and they won't decrease if we shut all our NPPs.
So you can see it's not all gold here in Western Europe, we have our own problems. As a nuclear professional it's currently not easy, and many are thinking about to transplant.  :(

Have to get ready for work. >:(

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Re: PWR/BWR IAEA Simulators
« Reply #13 on: Apr 26, 2006, 04:32 »
Are you sure, that one can fix the problem of a positive steam effect or a possitive SCRAM effect with upgrading? I think it's the physical behaviour of this kind of reactor and it's not modifiable. ???

Perhaps there are only certain circumstances where a positive reactivity effect would result from a SCRAM; those circumstances would become forbidden for operations.  In the US, it would be a Tech Spec boundary.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

 


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