Author Topic: Will The Navy Screw Me Over?? (Read 53296 times)

dpalm2 · « **on:** Mar 02, 2006, 12:20 »

Hi,

This is my first post ever and definitely not my last. I have 60 credit hours from the Univ. of Illinois in champaign-urbana in the nuclear engineering program. I have no military experience. I've read several things about the possible benefits of committing to the 6 year navy nuclear program for officers after I have my degree. I'm worried that it's not all true. First of all, I can easily get in with a 3.9 GPA at one of the best Eng. Universities around. I've heard that I can get a $10k signing bonus AND about $2500 a month for up to 30 months. Is this possible to get even if I only want the money but do not really need it? Will they do a credit check and see that I don't really need the money for school and give me a lousy contract? Secondly, what if I get to the officer candidate school and despite the fact that I’m at least a decent physical specimen, don't make it as an officer for some reason? Do I have to enlist or maybe pay them back? Next, is the school that I'll end up at as an officer separate from those out of high school? The last thing I want is to be in another class I where I should be the one teaching it. I’m thinking it will be a challenge though. Sorry I'm such a "NUB" with so many questions. The last thing I wanted to ask was if I can be guaranteed placement in the nuclear field. If so, is there any way that they can agree to never put me a sub (I realize I'm getting greedy). Thank you so much for answering any of my questions. On a parting note, I'd just like to say that I want to serve because I, unlike so many people today, still believe in my country and will not mind making a sacrifice for it, as it has done so much for me! Thanks again,

Dave

taterhead · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 01:00 »

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:01 »

I would not classify your status as a "NUB", but I would definitely characterize your status as new. In order to be a "NUB" you have to actually be in the Navy.

Since I am trying to stay up during my night shift day off, I will take the time to attempt to address your questions/statements in a matter befitting a future O-ganger.

1. I am confused? You say you already have 60 cr in Nuc Eng from UIUC, yet you go on to say you can get in to any school of nuc eng. So either you are a junior w/ 60 fresh/soph credits or you are talking about getting in to a MS Nuke Eng program following your statedly stellar 3.9 GPA graduation. Or, your declared major is Nuc Eng and you have not started your core courses yet. Just trying to pinpoint your current status.

2. You talk about not needing money. If that's the case don't take it and just join the Navy after you graduate and go through OCS. If you do take it you will be going through NROTC training in lieu of having to go to OCS following graduation. Also, a stellar credit score will not negate an NROTC scholarship. If you were to follow that logic reciprocally you would think that the Navy was looking for people with bad credit to become officers. Not so. If you feel guilty about taking the NROTC stipend, every month find a blue shirt and give him or her the money.

3. Nuclear Power School: Settle down sport. O-NPS is graduate level reactor theory level stuff all centered around sea power. I don't think you have to worry about being too smart for the school. I think you will find it to be a swift kick in the realities. Think about school now: you can choose when to schedule your classes, you can choose to attend or not, you can choose to study or not, you can wear comfy clothes to school or not, you can take as many or as few classes per semester. And then we have Navy training. You have no choice. Think going to and leaving school when it is dark outside.

4. Subs. Sub service is an all volunteer duty.

I think that covers it. If you take the NROTC scholarship and still feel guilty about it, I can think of many ways for you to be a philanthropist.

M1Ark · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:20 »

I sat through enlisted nuclear power school with three guys that had degrees already. There was also a Naval Academy dropout that had a 1450 SAT (he claims). One had a BS in Mechanical Engineering, Another BS in Statistical Analysis and a third in Marine Biology with GPA's between 2.8 to 3.6 from respected schools. A couple of them failed several tests such as physics, thermodynamics and Reactor Operational Physics. If I remember correctly, myself and several dozen other high school graduates did a fine job beating them easily on Nuke Power School exams. Of course we made fun of them for it. They joined the enlisted ranks thinking their degree would make them a shoe-in for the officer programs. I don't think it worked out for them. You will be surrounded by people with very high IQ's and success isn't guaranteed regardless of your background.

As far as your 60 credit hours... Nuke school is FULL of college dropouts that partied to much or ran out of money to fund their schooling. You will be among hundreds within your class with the same pedigree.

Marlin · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 07:44 »

Its been a while since I went through NPS but we were placed in our classes based on test scores and previous education. Section one was almost entirely High school grads with passable test scores and section twelve on the top was almost all college grads with very impressive test scores even for nukes. I remember a sign over the door that had quote from Rickover that stated "The smartest work as hard...". The class curriculum varied from exactly what you needed to as much as you could handle in the upper class. Everyone took the same tests but level of effort to get there was different. The sign may not be there any more it may be gone along with the Mare Island school.
To shorten this up M1Ark is right, do not expect a free ride based on previous experience you will just be held to a higher standard.

shovelheadred · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 12:38 »

....Hey DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!..of course they will,,,,its the NAVY....but it sounds to me like you will fit in just right,,,,cause you have a line of bull,,,just like 99% of the squids I know,,,I was in class 8003,,,if you dont need the $$,,then go to college...if you want to go out to sea at various times during the year...then sign the paper..........red

visserjr · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 12:52 »

Quote from: M1Ark on Mar 02, 2006, 03:20

I sat through enlisted nuclear power school with three guys that had degrees already. A couple of them failed several tests ...If I remember correctly, myself and several dozen other high school graduates did a fine job beating them easily on Nuke Power School exams. Of course we made fun of them for it. They joined the enlisted ranks thinking their degree would make them a shoe-in for the officer programs. I don't think it worked out for them. Nuke school is FULL of college dropouts that partied to much or ran out of money to fund their schooling. You will be among hundreds within your class with the same pedigree.

M1Ark said it best. Also, Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. The Navy, or anyone else for that matter, will only screw you if you allow them to.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 12:54 »

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. Its good to know that sub fleets are all volunteer. Maybe I wasn't clear about this but I'm still in school, and will finish in about 30 months. The program I'm talking about is one in which I have to do NOTHING except sign a contract for service after I graduate(but I have to sign it NOW/SOON). At that point I would go to OCS and never have to touch ROTC. Not many people know about it, but by brother (an AF Mech. E) says recently he has heard it mentioned by some of the enlistees under him and says hes angry he spent 3 of his college years in ROTC when he could have MADE money going to college and been in the same position as he is right now anyways. I didn't mean to insult anybody when I said I might not be challenged; I never thought this, I know its hard. Sorry I made you go on rants about how guys out of HS can do better then Univ. grads. I've heard of these stories a thousand times and am sure they're true: college students are often lazy. But I'm not, I work and actually enjoy what I study (probably why I do well). As far as the issue of money goes, I'll take as much as I can get, I'm not rich or a philanthropist. I asked if they take your financial situation into account when making up a military contract. I never said I don't what our government's money. If I dont take it, it will just end up buying elderly people pills they don't need, or supporting the sloth of welfare recipiants(send angry/agreeing emails to dpalm2@gmail.com). I hope I cleared up my situation. Any other info would be awsome. I HAVE spent some time on the site searching but haven't found much that pertains to me. Thanks again,
Dave

P.S. Red, why waste your time posting if your not going to say anything meaningful/helpful. Don't call me a tool, look at yourself... Congrats on owning a Harley, what an accomplishment, I had a panhead the day I turned 16. I usually don't advertise that fact though.

visserjr · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 01:20 »

dpalm2,
Going into ocs after graduation and to officer power school you would not have any hs grads in your class. Unfortunately for the navy, and very fortunately for you(I am sure others here would agree) the nuclear field can't keep officers in. Therefore, the standards have significantly lowered as of late. You might want to ask yourself why the incentives are so high. The reason is the can't keep people in.
The retention is worse in the enlisted supervisory level Congress(not the Navy or any SRB program) had to pass an act to provide incentive bonuses called SERP for Enlisted supervisors to try and keep us in. Why, we're dropping like flies. The $ is 100,000 max on a bonus for the supervisors, 200,000 career total. My very humble guess as to why people at there 10-16 year point are getting out has to do with the "why me" kids showing up in both the enlisted and officer communities. Simply put, before, you were given the tools to handle problem children, now, you are pretty much stuck with them, or they get sent to another boat for a second chance.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 01:31 »

A "why me" kid would be....one that doesn't want to be there but for some reason is? And before they could deal with that by means of what is considered "abuse" in today's military, or did they just have better ways of weeding out the garden in the past? I think thats what your saying although it is off topic.

Marlin · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 02:06 »

"Off topic" seems to be our middle name. I've never heard of a program like you describe but it sounds like a good deal. You will find that the officer route has a few options that are not available to enlisted in the Nuclear field if that is what you are interested in. I would suggest a different forum to answer those questions as most of the posters here were not officers. I think that responses may have been aimed at a view looking in from the outside. Many very intelligent people have not made it through the nuclear program and the same can be said of the Navy officer programs. You seem to have a very possitive attitude so I suspect that you will have no problem.

P.S. Does the UofI still have a cow with a window into its stomach?

taterhead · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 02:08 »

Dave-

You remind me of my brother.

Once you join the Navy, whether as an E or an O, no one gives a rat's ass how you got there. It doen't matter if you went to M.I.T. or I.T.T. Once you get in, its all about how you perform your duties.

The Navy has no interest in screwing you over. We have more important things to do, like deployments, maintenance, drills, etc. The "why me" kid doesn't understand this. The "why me" kid thinks the Navy is out to screw him. You either contribute or you are jettisoned.

Just being honest with you, you sound like a bit of an elitist. I had to hold my tongue (fingers) last night when I read your first post for the first time. A good nights sleep has tempered my reply. Whether you mean to come of as arrogant or not, you did in my estimation, which is why you are encountering some resistance here.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that being an Officer, or in your case an Officer candidate, makes you any better or smarter than that HS grad to which you degradingly refer. Right now, there are hundreds of HS graduates shimming out, feeding up SGs, controlling electrical distribution, etc at sea on reactors. Officers and Enlisted folks have specific jobs to perform, none more noble, technical, or honorable than the other. In today's Navy, degrees are becoming more common in the Enlisted ranks.

These are things you will learn, maybe. If not, you will be the Officer that I pray comes to my division, so that I may train you up the right way

PWHoppe · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:31 »

To All,

Just a brief reminder to keep our posts civil and not engage in any inflammatory comments. Let's all be respectful of each others points of view and support one another. I know each of us try to do that but sometimes we get a little carried away and sometimes get a little too bit cynical. Please do not initiate any arguments, or tension, we just want the free flow of thoughts and opinions. So make sure we keep it professional

your friendly neighborhood moderator,

pat

dpalm2 · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:40 »

Yes, also a cow that you can stick your hand inside. And one that has 9 stomachs. Maybe its all one cow; I'm no aggi so I have no idea. I know I seem arrogant, but I'm also sure I'll be humbled in a hurry if I decide to sign the papers. I stated my GPA not to be cocky or vain, but as a means of presenting history/qualifications. I'm well aware of the fact that no one cares what I did before I joined, just what I contribute when I'm there. But what school I went to will still be somewhat important to employers post service. I'm still wondering what happens if I, for some reason, don't make it through OCS. What if I break my ankle or fail out(not that I'm planning on it, but like I've been told, I could get screwed if I don't watch my back).

Fermi2 · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 03:56 »

LOL I cannot believe you came on a board populated by mostly ex sailors and asked an open ended question about whether the Navy will screw you over!

Of course it will, and you'll like it and look back fondly on it years later!

Mike

dpalm2 · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 04:08 »

my question about whether the navy would screw me over was only to get peoples attention. The real questions were in my post. I don't really want that question answered.

Marlin · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 04:26 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 02, 2006, 03:40

I'm still wondering what happens if I, for some reason, don't make it through OCS. What if I break my ankle or fail out(not that I'm planning on it, but like I've been told, I could get screwed if I don't watch my back).

This is a question best answered by your recruiter, it may depend on length of school. Even the Naval academy has a cutoff beyond which some enlisted obligation will be required, I think that it was the sophmore year. Again ask your recruiter.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 05:55 »

I know that man. I was just imagining the smile on every ex squids face when they saw the subject of this thread.

Mike

PWHoppe · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 06:09 »

Quote from: Broadzilla on Mar 02, 2006, 05:55

I know that man. I was just imagining the smile on every ex squids face when they saw the subject of this thread.

Mike

Brought a smile to my face, it was an obvious

dpalm2 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 06:21 »

Glad you guys got a kick out of it. Thanks for all your help; i guess it's time to talk to a recruiter.

Dave

BuddyThePug · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 09:23 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 02, 2006, 12:54

P.S. Red, why waste your time posting if your not going to say anything meaningful/helpful. Don't call me a tool, look at yourself... Congrats on owning a Harley, what an accomplishment, I had a panhead the day I turned 16. I usually don't advertise that fact though.

After a reply like that, I almost hope that the Navy does what it does best ...

A good challenging assignment when the NPS pipeline is complete would be the Enterprise...a lot of history there, and unique engineering to that ship...

dpalm2 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 10:22 »

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

taterhead · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 10:31 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 02, 2006, 10:22

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

It just gets better and better...

M1Ark · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 10:34 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 02, 2006, 10:22

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

Dave,

If the guys who post on nukeworker made you decide not to join the navy then you definately made the right decision. I plan on laughing for the next 10 minutes.

Thank you

dpalm2 · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 10:48 »

This will be my last reply because we're just a LITTLE off topic. They didn't convince me not to. The point is that I have a choice and either way, I WIN. Goodbye all.

Atomic Frog · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 02, 2006, 11:13 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 02, 2006, 10:48

This will be my last reply because we're just a LITTLE off topic. They didn't convince me not to. The point is that I have a choice and either way, I WIN. Goodbye all.

WOW

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 03:17 »

Dave,

Picture yourself as the Officer of the Deck of a Virginia Class submarine or the Engineering Officer of the Watch transiting littoral waters off the coast of Iran, systems aligned for ultra-quiet, SEAL team is locking out to deploy, your entire crew at Battle Stations, nobody is making so much as a stomach growl. No one has slept in a nearly a week as you stay concealed off the coast listening to Iranian message traffick.

You have to get the SEAL team to the insert point, however 4 Iranian frigates with ASW supplied by the Russians are cross cutting in the gulf.

You have one shot to do this right because intelligence reports received by Radio 3 hours ago state that the SEAL time has to eliminate key launchers; mobile launching platforms that have been relocated to positions near the coast, before the Iranians launch nuclear warheads into India, Israel, and Germany.

So far the frigates do not suspect you. Right before the SEALs complete the lock out, a MSW cross connect flange ruptures and you have flooding in the engineroom.

Going through the procedures, you secure ASW/MSW and isolate SW. You here a ping in the water. The Iranians heard the transient. Torpedoes are in the water and homing on your position. Your SEALs are still tethered to the egress lock out. Communication with them is cut off during the casualty.

You have to dive or your crew is dead. Decide.

Whether you are the OOD or the EOOW you have about a microsecond to make decisions that will either save you or kill you.

And you can't even take some good natured ribbing?

Maybe you should stick to the lab work.

visserjr · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 09:37 »

To all,
If my replies contributed to "angering" anyone, sorry. But JMK is right. If Dpalm can't take a LITTLE ribbing, he would certainly have gone mad in maneuvering during his first EOOW drill set as the eo and ro plat against him. No offense to the guy, but he came across like soooo many of the Annapolis grads we have all retrained in our time. If I was not true to the forum I blame it on the morphine.

John

Nuclear NASCAR · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 10:45 »

To all,
In the case of someone coming here looking for an answer and instead getting the ration that ya'll gave, it's not a matter of being right. It's a matter of being helpful. "Good natured ribbing" usually doesn't come across the internet very well due to not being able to see a persons face and usually not knowing the person responding.

PWHoppe posted a good reminder to try and be civil and it obviously fell on deaf ears. I'll admit that the title stuck in my head the whole time I was reading the initial post for the first time. After reading it again I saw someone with genuine questions and concerns run straight into the smart*** patrol. Witty banter such as I've seen here happens daily here at work among folks who know each other. However, when it's obviously not received in the manner it was given it's time to quit feeding on the carcass and see if PERHAPS we should just answer the question rather than do the recruiters job and the job of those who are charged with determining Dpalm2 is fit for the Navy or not.

Please consider this the last reminder for this thread. Fun is fun but ya'll oughta be ashamed.

M1Ark · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 10:58 »

Nuclear NASCAR,

You obviously were not a prior navy nuke and therefore didn't get it and apparently neither did dpalm2. You are right in that a lot of what was said was more of an inside joke to those that did get it and was a disservice to the original post.

visserjr · « **Reply #30 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 11:41 »

In all honesty, I was serious about the morphine, as funny as it sounds, I just had Major Knee surgery. Anyway. It is always difficut to respond to a question that is inflamatory in nature when doing so over the internet, without offending someone.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #31 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 12:39 »

Couldn't help but to reply again. JMK that is a very interesting scenario you thought up(or possibly read in one of your solider of fortune magazine). Of corse im not prepared for such a thing. What college kid is. I have a family history in the military, and I assure you that neither of my grandfathers were prepared for what lay ahead of them when they landed on the beaches of France in '44. I didn't realize when I posted the first time that almost everyone here enlisted out of high school(by the way, I respect that more than you all might think). I think as soon as I said I was a Univ. student who wanted to go into OCS, you all just decided to give me a hard time because you all resent the officers that had it better than you. Why else did some of you just start talking about how guys out of high school did better than guys with degrees? You thought I was being an jerk stating my GPA while I only posted it because the program I'm interested in has a minimum GPA requirement. None of you seemed to know what I was talking about. Sorry I came to the wrong place.

PWHoppe · « **Reply #32 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 02:16 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 03, 2006, 12:39

Sorry I came to the wrong place.

This is very, very sad. This site is supposed to be a place to help ALL people, not to drive them away. I am not going to point fingers or go on a rant but we all need to look ourselves in the mirror and ask what was the young man looking for and what could I have done to help.

taterhead · « **Reply #33 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 02:41 »

This thread has outlived its usefulness.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #34 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 03:02 »

I read it, and if I were a young sprout asking advice I'd have found that thread extremely helpfull. I had my 18 year old son read it and he said the same.

While some ribbing was done, none of it was out of line, especially considering the wealth of information that was given.

Maybe it's me but I thought the kid over reacted.

Overall it was an excellent thread.

Mike

PWHoppe · « **Reply #35 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 03:18 »

Mike,

Quite possibly true, you can't tell what someone is thinking and you can't gauge anything using the internet, which is why the ribbing has to be done carefully. You are most correct in that there was a tremendous amount of very sound advice given out.

Nuclear NASCAR · « **Reply #36 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 04:09 »

Quote from: M1Ark on Mar 03, 2006, 10:58

Nuclear NASCAR,

You obviously were not a prior navy nuke and therefore didn't get it and apparently neither did dpalm2. You are right in that a lot of what was said was more of an inside joke to those that did get it and was a disservice to the original post.

My lack of Navy nuke experience is why I rarely post in the forum because I know without a doubt that I have very little to offer here other than perhaps in the Getting Out section.

I don't want to discourage anyone from offering their opinions and ideas, we're all here to exchange information, stories, and helpful hints. One of the greatest tools we have are the smilies to at least show a little emotion that can't be read without seeing ones face. I've encouraged Dave to continue to seek his answers and I'd encourage honest answers from any with feedback. It sounds like he's running a "what if" scenario through his head and coming up with more questions than he has answers to. He probably thinks out loud and keeps coming up with more and more questions. Sounds like he's got a great future ahead of him in accident analysis of nuke plants when he gets out.

I know that ya'll have not only the answers but the ability to ask probing questions that can help him make one of the biggest decisions of his life. I'm thanking you in advance for doing that.

By the way, visserjr, I hope the knee gets better for you as you recover. My wife had to have her ACL replaced about 5 years ago and I remember it was no fun.

visserjr · « **Reply #37 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 04:43 »

Nascar,
They relocated my knee cap because apparently the Navy thought 28 was too young for knee replacement.

As to the thread, I went back and reread it. There was some most likely submarine specific ribbing, and through it all there was some decent advice. Like Mike, I had an 19 year old MM3 straight form prototype read it, he foud it pretty usefull.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #38 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 05:54 »

Thanks, because I try to be reasonable.

If the ribbing wasn't that bad then the kid should have taken it. He received the info he desired, it was good info and we don't always get what we want out of life.

It's time he learned it.

MIke

dpalm2 · « **Reply #39 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 08:32 »

The thread answered one of my many questions, and that was about sub service. Other than that, nobody had any idea about the program/contract offer that I was talking about. Obviously that's no one's fault, but don't say there was a lot of information in the thread. Maybe there was a lot of useless information, but not much that pertained to me. I can take a "ribbing" as good as the next guy. I like to argue because most of the time it's productive. Maybe after military service I'll learn how to take s**t and not have the need to sling in back

Fermi2 · « **Reply #40 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 09:06 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 03, 2006, 08:32

The thread answered one of my many questions, and that was about sub service. Other than that, nobody had any idea about the program/contract offer that I was talking about. Obviously that's no one's fault, but don't say there was a lot of information in the thread. Maybe there was a lot of useless information, but not much that pertained to me. I can take a "ribbing" as good as the next guy. I like to argue because most of the time it's productive. Maybe after military service I'll learn how to take s**t and not have the need to sling in back

LOL!!!!!! Good response!

Mike

rlbinc · « **Reply #41 on:** Mar 03, 2006, 09:43 »

To All You Shellbacks, Sea Lawyers, Salts, Scallywags, Snipes, and Slimy Creatures Of The Raging Main;

Not all of our nuclear industry colleagues have been subjected to the daily demoralization, denigration, and disenfranchisement which characterized the Naval Service.

Like you, I never experienced a day of service when my own (or my Mother's, Girlfriend's, Sister's, or Dog's) personal dignity was not attacked verbally by "shipmates" in the Navy. It was all good fun at the time. I played in that role myself.

But, hey, eight years later and twenty plus years ago - it ended.

My advice to any young man is to serve his country. That advice has worked in my family for generations.

I served 3,107 days, and I wonder how I can remember that number. Must have been the thousand times I counted, huh?

Halcyon Daze · « **Reply #42 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 06:16 »

Dave,
I'm really not familiar with the program you're talking about, but I can promise you that if you go in, either as an officer or enlisted, the Navy will hold you to the terms of your contract. They will be firm but fair and you will get what you give. If you complete nuke training and serve out your term (and I can only speak for the Sub Service) you will learn to run a nuclear power plant in a way that you'll never be able to learn any other way. It'll be like learning to drive at a Nascar training facility. You'll operate under pressure that can't be duplicated in the commercial world. You'll also go months without seeing your family. You'll go days without sleep. You'll work holidays, nights, weekends and any other time you can find.You'll get kicked in the ass and stabbed in the back. You'll make enemies you want to kill and friends you'll want to adopt. You'll get seasick, homesick, heartsick, sick and tired and 10 thousand other things that will make you want to piss on John Paul Jones. You'll see sunrises and starshows, nightlife and wildlife, foreign ports, maybe exotic islands.....things you'd pay hugely for in civilian life.
With the indignation of youth, I cursed my recruiter a thousand times for getting me into that hellhole of a life, but looking back, I treasure the education, experience and the memories and frequently call him up to go have a beer when I'm back home (he was from my home town).
I don't know you and can't tell you whether or not you would have a rewarding experience in the Yacht Club, that's something you'll have to decide. But I can tell you this....IT IS A FREAKIN' ADVENTURE!!!!!

Bighouz107501 · « **Reply #43 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 06:20 »

I couldn't help but to post. Unlike this other person I feel that every wueation has been answered thoroughly, I think the only thing you all couldn't tell me is who is gonna be my roommate. I think that the main poster walks with his chin and nose up high. Does he not realize that he is not better than any1 on this forum. I do not know him personally but he just seems this way. I mean comeon I may go NROTC to Villanova and play D1 Tennis, but that makes me no better than any1 else.

Maybe I have already started to learn many things about myself on this forum, mainly JMK, Beercourt, and Broadzilla have tought me many things that I feel no college degree can offer.

Just my input on this all.

Dennis

Fermi2 · « **Reply #44 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 07:28 »

Thanks Dennis,

And after a somewhat rocky start I do appreciate the way to stayed in here and asked darn good questions.

Just remember, it's gonna suck sometimes but in the end it's ALL worth it. I pick on Navy nukes even though I was one, but I'll fully admit everything I have today was made possible by the Navy nuke program.

Its a good time, and wait till you see a sunrise or sunset at sea!

Mike

Bighouz107501 · « **Reply #45 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 07:40 »

No, thank all of the you.

I have accepted that it will be hard, and that's why I'm excited. I was never challenged to the point that I have had to dig deep. I can't wait to find out what I really am capable of and what not. But I found it very disrespectful that this poster says the site is useless. I know that people such as myself, fellow DEP's and parents have found this section of Nukeworker to be USEFUL! But anyways I hope that the poster reads this and realizes some things. Hopefully we just all have the wrong impression on him, then again maybe not.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #46 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 10:58 »

Bighouse,

Were you there for the last thread? Lets not start again. I find the site to be very useful and thank those that make it possible. I said there was a lot of useless info in the thread, which is true. And for the 15 posts we've been talking about how much info was in the first thread, when we could have been talking about what OCS or NPS will be like. That's fine though becuase that information is in about a dozen other places here. Sorry if I came across like I think I'm Johnny Depp in a Wal-Mart; I never talk in forums.

Dave

Bighouz107501 · « **Reply #47 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 11:00 »

Ok, it;s cool but I did not see where you stated this site was helpful. But did you figure out exactly what your situation is, in regards to joining yet? I really didn't catch that.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #48 on:** Mar 04, 2006, 11:40 »

I think what I did was read something on a website that made the program called NUPOC and another nuclear teaching oportunity sound the same. So in my original post in the last thread, I don't think I can get that kind of money out of the navy unless I sign something and commit to becoming an instructor somewhere in the pipeline(possibly at A-school), which I don't want to do.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #49 on:** Mar 05, 2006, 08:59 »

Quote from: dpalm2 on Mar 04, 2006, 10:58

Bighouse,

Were you there for the last thread? Lets not start again. I find the site to be very useful and thank those that make it possible. I said there was a lot of useless info in the thread, which is true. And for the 15 posts we've been talking about how much info was in the first thread, when we could have been talking about what OCS or NPS will be like. That's fine though becuase that information is in about a dozen other places here. Sorry if I came across like I think I'm Johnny Depp in a Wal-Mart; I never talk in forums.

Dave

Johnny Depp in a Walmart. LOL!!! Classic!!!

I'm somewhat curious. When I went to A School there weren't any officer instructors, but I was in just prior to Nuclear Field A School. We had Officer instructors in Nuke School, but so far as I know all the A School and pre Nuke instructors were enlisted. Does NFAS have officer instructors?

Mike

shayne · « **Reply #50 on:** Mar 05, 2006, 12:45 »

It was the same during my time there. 'A' school was all senior enlisted instructors and power school was mostly direct input officers. I did have 1 instructors for Chemical, Radcon, and Materials that was MMCM(SW) (ELT). Although I didn't care much for the material in that class it was one of the better ones. The enlisted instructors always had the better class. They knew how to make the class more enjoyable and always had better stories and such.

Now, like Mike said in an earlier post, I can say that everything in my career that I have done was mostly due to what I learned and my experiences in the Nuclear Navy. There was many times that I hated it and it was hard. But there was many other good times too that I mostly remember now.

One thing to remember about these Navy forums is that we are not the experts about everything Navy Nuclear. We do have some good insite to the Nuclear Navy, but some of our information could be dated. Many things have changed even since I got out of the Navy in 2001 and many things have changed since other have departed many years before that.

You also have to keep in mind that when lot of joined the Nuclear Navy there was no forums or internet available to help us make decisions about the program. We had to base our decision on what the 'non Nuclear Navy' recruiter told us. Most of his information about the program was from some Nuclear Navy flyer in the office or he was able to direct us to another recruiter that worked on a nuclear power ship. So lots of here on the forum would like to help you make a wise decision about the Navy. We all have our own situations that lead us to the program.

Sarcasm or ribbing aside, most of us would really like to help the many people that visit the forums although it may come across as rough or harsh.

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #51 on:** Mar 05, 2006, 05:30 »

100% Agree.

By no means does the information presented here reflect up to the minute Nuclear Navy info, but its better than anything you'd get from MS1(SW) at your local recruting post.

You might as well get used to the ribbing, because that is how a cohesive fighting team operates.

Sorry, but the Navy does not have HR1s and HRC's to help mend your feelings if you get called out.

Not saying the Navy is intentionally malicious or sarcastic towards others, rather its a form of cheap entertainment as an excuse to not have to watch Days of Thunder for the 129th time.

And since civilian nuc power is infested with us Navy folks, its pretty much no different in the real world, either.

Chin up Dpalm, mature a little, let em drop, get that degree, and after 2 years of following this forum, make an informed decision.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #52 on:** Mar 05, 2006, 06:18 »

HR1 and HRC LOL CLASSIC!!

Mike

War Eagle · « **Reply #53 on:** Mar 05, 2006, 07:03 »

dpalm2,
If you're still around I will answer your questions about the program you are considering, NUPOC (Nucler Propulsion Officer Candidate). Under this program you do get a signing bonus after acceptance by Naval Reactors and a monthly salary while completing your degree. This amount is not needs based. The money is yours regardless of your current financial status. When you complete your degree, you will go to OCS in Pensacola and then on to training in Charleston (maybe Upstate New York too), Groton and then to your first submarine homeport. If the Navy pays all that money and you don't make it thru OCS, they reserve the right to recoup that money possibly in the form of enlisted service. PM me if you want more details or any POCs that are recent NUPOC accessions.

visserjr · « **Reply #54 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 09:10 »

And the Oscar goes to...
JMK

HR1 and HRC LMAO.

I can't wait to finish con leave and use that one at work. I am making it my personal mission to spread that one. Don't worry I won't take the credit.

John

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #55 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 09:34 »

Thank you thank you...

But no Oscar for me, I have a degree, thus negating all potential nominations for Hollywood accolades.

And to go back a few posts to Dpalm characterizing my scenario as something out of Soldiers of Fortune.

Nope, just made it up. I am creative that way, but its really easy to make up a scenario like that after actually living through a bunch of tactical readiness examinations. Its how a submarine trains. You are on on a mission and crap happens. I must admit I took a few liberties with Iranian Naval strategy, but i was thinking to the future of when you would actually be standing watch and tried to make it plausible. I figure in 2009, there will be a few Virginias in the Gulf doing God know's what.

I have read and re-read this thread and its pretty tame. The title of the thread itself is arrogant and inflammatory.

Like Tater, I had to take a breath before responding to the original thread. My first draft was better. The litmus test for me before hitting the post button is whether or not my own writing makes me laugh, if it does, time to edit.

Except for my reply to the Bush joke (It was 4 am, i was a bit punchy, sorry).

Fermi2 · « **Reply #56 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 02:45 »

Which thread title is arrogant and inflammatory? I hope it's not this one. The original was locked for a few minutes and I wanted to point out a few reasonable people didn't find anything offensive in it.

Mike

dpalm2 · « **Reply #57 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 05:48 »

Maybe it was, but aparently it was a good question since some responded by saying "of coarse it will". I take that with a grain of salt though.

JMK,

"let 'em drop"...I'll play Jimmy Carter and keep the peace by not responding to that. About making a decision in 2 years...I have to make it soon, or I miss out on some very substantial benefits.

WarEagle....Thank you for the concise answers.

Dave

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #58 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 07:03 »

Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer?

Jimmy Carter the President?

Jimmy Carter the nuke submarine officer?

Jimmy Carter the senile?

I'll answer all your questions in this one concise statement...

The Navy will do what is best for the Navy, always.

taterhead · « **Reply #59 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 07:06 »

Hey ease up on Brother Jimmy-

dpalm2 · « **Reply #60 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 07:20 »

"The Navy will do what is best for the Navy, always"...which many times is keeping its people happy, right?

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #61 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 07:35 »

The Navy will always do what is in its best interest.

taterhead · « **Reply #62 on:** Mar 06, 2006, 09:53 »

Quote from: JMK on Mar 06, 2006, 07:35

The Navy will always do what is in its best interest.

...which may or may not make you happy.

visserjr · « **Reply #63 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 09:11 »

I personally see no way in which we can be of any assistance to Dpalm2. If there is a way to stop this thread, I humbly suggest we do. Whether intentional or not, I feel he is playing into the inflamotorary nature of us all. So, rather than us all tit for tat, Dpalm2 what other questions relating to specific aspects of the navy do you have? For example: What is the deployment schedule like on various platforms? or What are the navy incentives to a submarine officer once qualified engineer? or What is a typical warfare career path for line officers? Questions like theese, I am certain people(including myself) here would gladly answer for you.

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #64 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 12:04 »

One last thing.

And this should be a message to all ye new comers...

There is no such thing as "The Navy".

dpalm2 · « **Reply #65 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 12:34 »

Well...at first I assumed that being on a sub would be horrible, but have learned that in many respects living conditions are better aboard subs(compared w/ most surface warfare). Also it pays better. Could someone shed some light as to how much better? On top of that, I hear some like sub duty for the camaraderie. Is this all true? Do you also end up traveling more on a sub? Thanks

Dave

PWHoppe · « **Reply #66 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 03:17 »

Dpalm,

I don't know what the current "bump" is for sub pay is nowadays, but I guess it's a lot more than when I was in, over 25 years ago. To answer your other question, I believe because of the smaller crew size there is more of a family type atmosphere on the subs. This is probably what leads to the "ribbing" that you have seen hereabouts, it can get rough while underway, but it is all good natured for the most part, you'll make friends that will last a lifetime. I just attended the wedding of the daughter of one of my old shipmates from my submarine days. We still stay in touch, and I wouldn't trade those times for anything in the world.

Fermi2 · « **Reply #67 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 03:36 »

My three best friends in the whole world are surface nukes, yet I was a sub nuke. I'm no expert on this but it seemed they had to take a lot more guff from non nuclear chiefs, especially when going ashore for liberty. They had inspections and the like, we just yelled have a nice weekend to the CO on our way off the boat.

Mike

visserjr · « **Reply #68 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 03:40 »

Dpalm,
I have never been on a flat top, but I can vouch that people I have served with who did both the carier thing and the sub thing said quality of life is much better on a carier. Cariers have email, and phones(mind you they are expensive to use, and not always available but still there). Subs have "email" but I will say that if in an operational area a sub won't get email, and most of the time a sub is in an operational area. So, you get your email on the way into port. No phones either. Unless you are on a missle boat, things are a very tight fit on a fast attack sub. Space is as valuable as fresh water. As for comraderie, it was always very close, especially in those situations we can't talk about when it hits the fan. As far as the bonus, I believe on a sub once qulified ENG, you get a thirty thousand dollar bonus and a ten K once a year WHILE ON A SUB.
In many respects being on a sub can be horrible. If you are even mildly disliked by your peers and subordinates, they will make every moment pure hell, and there is nowhere to go. You are stuck in all 360 feet of it. Chances are they will treat you this way to make you a better person.

War Eagle · « **Reply #69 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 04:34 »

Bonuses:
Once you pass the Engineer's exam and you have one year left in your current obligation, you are eligible to sign up for Nuclear COPAY (continuation pay). This pay currently has two levels, $22K a year if you sign up for a three year contract and $25K a year if you sign up for a four or five year contract. So, assuming you sign up for the four year contract with a year left and you elect for early payment, you will get four years worth of payments spread over five years (25x4)/5 = 20k a year before taxes. There are alot of nuances, but that's the general idea. If you renegotiate the contract later on (when the bonus cap goes up for example) and don't owe them money from early payments on a pre-existing contract you will get the entire yearly amount.

Here's a link to 2006 military pay tables: http://www.dod.mil/dfas/militarypay/newinformation/WebPayTableVersion2006updated.pdf
There you'll find tables for submarine pay based on rank and time in service. Surface Officers get a $10K a year bonus on top of the incentive bonus I described above. As you become a more senior submariner, sub pay will offset the surface bonus.

You can also elect to sign up for the bonus year to year to maintain career flexibility. You will only get $12k a year if you exercise this option.

shayne · « **Reply #70 on:** Mar 07, 2006, 08:52 »

During my time, suface nuclear operators pro pay was more than the sub operators. Surface pro-pay was still was a little less than the sub operator with his pro-pay + sub pay. I seem to remember it came out to $25/month more during the first year of sub service, which is why I decided to go the Nuclear Cruiser Fleet (USS California). Also at the time, the surface EM re-enlistment multiple was better than the sub EM, so I could have made out better if I decided to re-enlist.

I'm not sure how many fast attack subs pull into foreign ports. It seemed like the submariners I did time with at NPTU didn't get to see too many. The Boomer guys saw their homeport and once in a blue moon they pulled into Florida.

visserjr · « **Reply #71 on:** Mar 08, 2006, 10:18 »

From what I understand boomers don't usualy pull into foreign ports. The fast boats I was on did. It depends on your deployment In the med we pulled into port every few weeks I think it was a total of 7 port visits between the med and the persian gulf in six months. A northern run was much different we got three ports in six months, the first of which was after 92 days at sea submerged. On a Fast boat, it mostly depends on operational commitments, and the area you are operating in.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #72 on:** Mar 08, 2006, 02:23 »

Thanks for the good info...although deciphering your slang can be tedious.

I heard in a different thread that a lot of guys that go into NUPOC don't make it out, or don't commission as an officer. What kind of percentages are we talking about here, and what happens to them? I also heard that the navy prefers to get their nuc officers from two other sources/programs before NUPOC. I'm not sure how much anyone knows about NUPOC, but any light shed on these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks once again,

Dave

Already Gone · « **Reply #73 on:** Mar 08, 2006, 04:18 »

You are right that they prefer to take officers from the traditional commissioning programs. But, NUPOC is where they recruit the top students. Although the Navy would love every officer to be an Academy graduate, they are not going to let the best and brightest get away just because they chose to go to another college. That's why the program exists.
If they recruited you into NUPOC they will not arbitrarily deny you a commission just because you are in that program. They are going to pay you to go to school because they want you. They wouldn't do that and then drop you. If you wash out, it's going to be because of you, not them.
So, the Navy won't screw you - they will however be pretty unsympathetic if you decide to screw yourself.
Don't do this if you are not serious about it. If you take their money, they expect to get value in return. If you cash the checks and fail to earn your degree and/or commission - well at least the new enlisted uniforms don't look as much like a costume as the old ones. Read the fine print. Everybody who enters an officer program signs an enlistment contract first. They tell you that it is only so they can put you on the payroll. They don't stress the fact that they will hold yo to it, but they will.

BUT!!! I sense that you are not very enthusiastic about becoming a Navy Officer anyway. I'll bet that you never gave it a thought until they approached you. That's okay. I just think that you have to remember what YOU want. So they are offering you something (that you apparently don't need). Does that mean you should take what they're giving? Not unless you want to be a Navy Officer. If this isn't part of your plan, it isn't worth it.

On the other hand, if you give it a try and it doesn't work out, you will survive it. It's amazing what you can go through and come out alive at the other end.
Good luck.

LaFeet · « **Reply #74 on:** Mar 08, 2006, 07:29 »

For Dave,

I managed to survive the navy, on submarines. I never thought it was a joy ride, but allways managed to make the best of it.

My experiences and friendships I have earned help make me the person I am today. And yes, there were times I felt the Navy screwed me over... I got my blue card now and I live pretty well.

Life has no script, make your choice and stick to your guns. If you do decide to join the Navy, Nuke School will be just one of your hurdles you will need to clear. Junior officers are a dime a dozen and need to adapt rapidly. Just remember, most of the enlisted operators can help you on your way, or they can make it miserable if you abuse them.

Good luck either way.

dpalm2 · « **Reply #75 on:** Mar 09, 2006, 01:57 »

To say that I'm not serious about being a Navy officer is unfair. I may not know everything it entails, but no one does until they are actually carrying out their duties. I've been considering military service since high school and just never found an "in", or program, that i found worthwhile/interesting. I'm not considering joining on an as-needed basis, this doesn't hold me back any though. If I want to join just because I want to, I see nothing wrong with that.

So what your saying is that if I get into NUPOC/sign a contract, finish my degree and do a good job of it, I will almost certainly be commissioned as an officer as long as I am judicious about carrying out my duties?

Dave

Fermi2 · « **Reply #76 on:** Mar 09, 2006, 03:04 »

I doubt he meant you weren't serious. I think what he meant to say is before you make a commitment make darn sure it's what you really want to do. Once you're in it doesn't matter what you want or feel committed to, it only matters what the Navy feels you are committed to.

Mike

Already Gone · « **Reply #77 on:** Mar 09, 2006, 03:49 »

That's right. I never said "not serious". I said that you seemed to be less than enthusiastic. That's pretty normal considering that they came to you first. It's not as if you are hell bent on being a Navy officer at any cost. If you were too enthusiastic, I'd be worried about you. That would indicate that you might have been too easily sold. When someone offers you a good deal, it is a wise and prudent course to investigate and think on it for a while. Being slightly skeptical, as you are, shows that you are weighing the possibilities. You are much les apt to be disappointed in any case than those guys who log on here and say stuff like "I'm going to enlist Navy Nuke so I can get to be an officer. My recruiter told me that all nukes get to be officers, ...etc., etc."
As far as the contract goes, they will do what they say, if you do what they ask. NUPOC is absolutely NOT a back-alley scheme to lure you into the enlisted ranks by promising you a commission that they don't intend to deliver. They have every intention of pinning gold bars on your collar, but you have to do your part to earn them. Anyone you might have heard of who didn't make the cut was probably looking for a free ride. I wouldn't worry about any medical/physical problems either. If you are not fit enough to become an officer, chances are that you won't be fit enough to be an enlisted man either.

visserjr · « **Reply #78 on:** Mar 10, 2006, 10:41 »

Dpalm,

I have to say, listen to Beercourt and Brodzilla. From my experience the two of them, and a select few others give the best and most insightfull words of wisdom. I have had many questions answered well by these two, and have watched as many others were led to the light. I am not kissing anyone's ass here, but truthfully they always seem helpfull and right on. Before getting woried about things like your level of seriousness, carefully read there advice as if it was from your Father or an inspired teacher.

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #79 on:** Mar 10, 2006, 11:18 »

visserjr · « **Reply #80 on:** Mar 10, 2006, 12:35 »

And of course how could I forget the extremley powerfull and all knowing HP to the stars JMK. If I left you out it was because you save the best for last.

Rad Sponge · « **Reply #81 on:** Mar 10, 2006, 01:37 »

Fermi2 · « **Reply #82 on:** Mar 10, 2006, 03:37 »

I actually read Beer Court, PWHoppe, JMK, and Hydro Daves posts to get info.

Author Topic: Will The Navy Screw Me Over?? (Read 53296 times)

dpalm2

taterhead

Rad Sponge

M1Ark

shovelheadred

visserjr

dpalm2

visserjr

dpalm2

taterhead

dpalm2

Fermi2

dpalm2

Fermi2

dpalm2

BuddyThePug

dpalm2

taterhead

M1Ark

dpalm2

Rad Sponge

visserjr

M1Ark

visserjr

dpalm2

taterhead

Fermi2

visserjr

Fermi2

dpalm2

Fermi2

rlbinc

Halcyon Daze

Fermi2

dpalm2

dpalm2

Fermi2

shayne

Rad Sponge

Fermi2

visserjr

Rad Sponge

Fermi2

dpalm2

Rad Sponge

taterhead

dpalm2

Rad Sponge

taterhead

visserjr

Rad Sponge

dpalm2

Fermi2

visserjr

shayne

visserjr

dpalm2