Will The Navy Screw Me Over??

[shayne]

It was the same during my time there.  'A' school was all senior enlisted instructors and power school was mostly direct input officers.  I did have 1 instructors for Chemical, Radcon, and Materials that was MMCM(SW) (ELT).  Although I didn't care much for the material in that class it was one of the better ones.  The enlisted instructors always had the better class.  They knew how to make the class more enjoyable and always had better stories and such. 

Now, like Mike said in an earlier post, I can say that everything in my career that I have done was mostly due to what I learned and my experiences in the Nuclear Navy.  There was many times that I hated it and it was hard.  But there was many other good times too that I mostly remember now. 

One thing to remember about these Navy forums is that we are not the experts about everything Navy Nuclear.  We do have some good insite to the Nuclear Navy, but some of our information could be dated.  Many things have changed even since I got out of the Navy in 2001 and many things have changed since other have departed many years before that.

You also have to keep in mind that when lot of joined the Nuclear Navy there was no forums or internet available to help us make decisions about the program.  We had to base our decision on what the 'non Nuclear Navy' recruiter told us.  Most of his information about the program was from some Nuclear Navy flyer in the office or he was able to direct us to another recruiter that worked on a nuclear power ship.  So lots of here on the forum would like to help you make a wise decision about the Navy.  We all have our own situations that lead us to the program.

Sarcasm or ribbing aside, most of us would really like to help the many people that visit the forums although it may come across as rough or harsh.

[Rad Sponge]

100% Agree.

By no means does the information presented here reflect up to the minute Nuclear Navy info, but its better than anything you'd get from MS1(SW) at your local recruting post.

You might as well get used to the ribbing, because that is how a cohesive fighting team operates.

Sorry, but the Navy does not have HR1s and HRC's to help mend your feelings if you get called out.

Not saying the Navy is intentionally malicious or sarcastic towards others, rather its a form of cheap entertainment as an excuse to not have to watch Days of Thunder for the 129th time.
 
And since civilian nuc power is infested with us Navy folks, its pretty much no different in the real world, either.

Chin up Dpalm, mature a little, let em drop, get that degree, and after 2 years of following this forum, make an informed decision.

[Fermi2]

HR1 and HRC   LOL CLASSIC!!

Mike

[War Eagle]

dpalm2,
If you're still around I will answer your questions about the program you are considering, NUPOC (Nucler Propulsion Officer Candidate). Under this program you do get a signing bonus after acceptance by Naval Reactors and a monthly salary while completing your degree. This amount is not needs based.  The money is yours regardless of your current financial status. When you complete your degree, you will go to OCS in Pensacola and then on to training in Charleston (maybe Upstate New York too), Groton and then to your first submarine homeport.  If the Navy pays all that money and you don't make it thru OCS, they reserve the right to recoup that money possibly in the form of enlisted service.  PM me if you want more details or any POCs that are recent NUPOC accessions.

[visserjr]

And the Oscar goes to...
JMK

HR1 and HRC LMAO.

I can't wait to finish con leave and use that one at work. I am making it my personal mission to spread that one. Don't worry I won't take the credit.

John

[Rad Sponge]

Thank you thank you...

But no Oscar for me, I have a degree, thus negating all potential nominations for Hollywood accolades.

And to go back a few posts to Dpalm characterizing my scenario as something out of Soldiers of Fortune.

Nope, just made it up. I am creative that way, but its really easy to make up a scenario like that after actually living through a bunch of tactical readiness examinations. Its how a submarine trains. You are on on a mission and crap happens. I must admit I took a few liberties with Iranian Naval strategy, but i was thinking to the future of when you would actually be standing watch and tried to make it plausible. I figure in 2009, there will be a few Virginias in the Gulf doing God know's what.

I have read and re-read this thread and its pretty tame. The title of the thread itself is arrogant and inflammatory.

Like Tater, I had to take a breath before responding to the original thread. My first draft was better. The litmus test for me before hitting the post button is whether or not my own writing makes me laugh, if it does, time to edit.

Except for my reply to the Bush joke (It was 4 am, i was a bit punchy, sorry).

[Fermi2]

Which thread title is arrogant and inflammatory? I hope it's not this one. The original was locked for a few minutes and I wanted to point out a few reasonable people didn't find anything offensive in it.

Mike

[dpalm2]

Maybe it was, but aparently it was a good question since some responded by saying "of coarse it will".  I take that with a grain of salt though.

JMK,

     "let 'em drop"...I'll play Jimmy Carter and keep the peace by not responding to that.  About making a decision in 2 years...I have to make it soon, or I miss out on some very substantial benefits. 

WarEagle....Thank you for the concise answers. 

                         Dave

[Rad Sponge]

Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer?

Jimmy Carter the President?

Jimmy Carter the nuke submarine officer?

Jimmy Carter the senile?

I'll answer all your questions in this one concise statement...

The Navy will do what is best for the Navy, always.

[taterhead]

Hey ease up on Brother Jimmy-

[dpalm2]

"The Navy will do what is best for the Navy, always"...which many times is keeping its people happy, right?

[Rad Sponge]

The Navy will always do what is in its best interest.

[taterhead]

The Navy will always do what is in its best interest.

...which may or may not make you happy.

[visserjr]

I personally see no way in which we can be of any assistance to Dpalm2. If there is a way to stop this thread, I humbly suggest we do. Whether intentional or not, I feel he is playing into the inflamotorary nature of us all. So, rather than us all tit for tat, Dpalm2 what other questions relating to specific aspects of the navy do you have? For example: What is the deployment schedule like on various platforms? or What are the navy incentives to a submarine officer once qualified engineer? or What is a typical warfare career path for line officers? Questions like theese, I am certain people(including myself) here would gladly answer for you.

[Rad Sponge]

One last thing.

And this should be a message to all ye new comers...

There is no such thing as "The Navy".

[dpalm2]

Well...at first I assumed that being on a sub would be horrible, but have learned that in many respects living conditions are better aboard subs(compared w/ most surface warfare).  Also it pays better.  Could someone shed some light as to how much better?  On top of that, I hear some like sub duty for the camaraderie. Is this all true?  Do you also end up traveling more on a sub? Thanks

                Dave

[PWHoppe]

Dpalm,

I don't know what the current "bump" is for sub pay is nowadays, but I guess it's a lot more than when I was in, over 25 years ago. To answer your other question, I believe because of the smaller crew size there is more of a family type atmosphere on the subs. This is probably what leads to the "ribbing" that you have seen hereabouts, it can get rough while underway, but it is all good natured for the most part, you'll make friends that will last a lifetime. I just attended the wedding of the daughter of one of my old shipmates from my submarine days. We still stay in touch, and I wouldn't trade those times for anything in the world.

[Fermi2]

My three best friends in the whole world are surface nukes, yet I was a sub nuke. I'm no expert on this but it seemed they had to take a lot more guff from non nuclear chiefs, especially when going ashore for liberty. They had inspections and the like, we just yelled have a nice weekend to the CO on our way off the boat.

Mike

[visserjr]

Dpalm,
 I have never been on a flat top, but I can vouch that people I have served with who did both the carier thing and the sub thing said quality of life is much better on a carier. Cariers have email, and phones(mind you they are expensive to use, and not always available but still there). Subs have "email" but I will say that if in an operational area a sub won't get email, and most of the time a sub is in an operational area. So, you get your email on the way into port. No phones either. Unless you are on a missle boat, things are a very tight fit on a fast attack sub. Space is as valuable as fresh water. As for comraderie, it was always very close, especially in those situations we can't talk about when it hits the fan. As far as the bonus, I believe on a sub once qulified ENG, you get a thirty thousand dollar bonus and a ten K once a year WHILE ON A SUB.
In many respects being on a sub can be horrible. If you are even mildly disliked by your peers and subordinates, they will make every moment pure hell, and there is nowhere to go. You are stuck in all 360 feet of it. Chances are they will treat you this way to make you a better person.

[War Eagle]

Bonuses:
Once you pass the Engineer's exam and you have one year left in your current obligation, you are eligible to sign up for Nuclear COPAY (continuation pay).  This pay currently has two levels, $22K a year if you sign up for a three year contract and $25K a year if you sign up for a four or five year contract.  So, assuming you sign up for the four year contract with a year left and you elect for early payment, you will get four years worth of payments spread over five years (25x4)/5 = 20k a year before taxes. There are alot of nuances, but that's the general idea.  If you renegotiate the contract later on (when the bonus cap goes up for example) and don't owe them money from early payments on a pre-existing contract you will get the entire yearly amount. 

Here's a link to 2006 military pay tables: http://www.dod.mil/dfas/militarypay/newinformation/WebPayTableVersion2006updated.pdf
There you'll find tables for submarine pay based on rank and time in service.  Surface Officers get a $10K a year bonus on top of the incentive bonus I described above.  As you become a more senior submariner, sub pay will offset the surface bonus.

You can also elect to sign up for the bonus year to year to maintain career flexibility.  You will only get $12k a year if you exercise this option.

[shayne]

During my time, suface nuclear operators pro pay was more than the sub operators.  Surface pro-pay was still was a little less than the sub operator with his pro-pay + sub pay.  I seem to remember it came out to $25/month more during the first year of sub service, which is why I decided to go the Nuclear Cruiser Fleet (USS California).  Also at the time, the surface EM re-enlistment multiple was better than the sub EM, so I could have made out better if I decided to re-enlist.

I'm not sure how many fast attack subs pull into foreign ports.  It seemed like the submariners I did time with at NPTU didn't get to see too many.  The Boomer guys saw their homeport and once in a blue moon they pulled into Florida.

[visserjr]

From what I understand boomers don't usualy pull into foreign ports. The fast boats I was on did. It depends on your deployment In the med we pulled into port every few weeks I think it was a total of 7 port visits between the med and the persian gulf in six months. A northern run was much different we got three ports in six months, the first of which was after 92 days at sea submerged. On a Fast boat, it mostly depends on operational commitments, and the area you are operating in.

[dpalm2]

Thanks for the good info...although deciphering your slang can be tedious.

I heard in a different thread that a lot of guys that go into NUPOC don't make it out, or don't commission as an officer.  What kind of percentages are we talking about here, and what happens to them?  I also heard that the navy prefers to get their nuc officers from two other sources/programs before NUPOC.  I'm not sure how much anyone knows about NUPOC, but any light shed on these questions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks once again,
 
                Dave

[Already Gone]

You are right that they prefer to take officers from the traditional commissioning programs.  But, NUPOC is where they recruit the top students.  Although the Navy would love every officer to be an Academy graduate, they are not going to let the best and brightest get away just because they chose to go to another college.  That's why the program exists.
If they recruited you into NUPOC they will not arbitrarily deny you a commission just because you are in that program.  They are going to pay you to go to school because they want you.  They wouldn't do that and then drop you.  If you wash out, it's going to be because of you, not them.
So, the Navy won't screw you - they will however be pretty unsympathetic if you decide to screw yourself.
Don't do this if you are not serious about it.  If you take their money, they expect to get value in return.  If you cash the checks and fail to earn your degree and/or commission - well at least the new enlisted uniforms don't look as much like a costume as the old ones.  Read the fine print.  Everybody who enters an officer program signs an enlistment contract first.  They tell you that it is only so they can put you on the payroll.  They don't stress the fact that they will hold yo to it, but they will.

BUT!!! I sense that you are not very enthusiastic about becoming a Navy Officer anyway.  I'll bet that you never gave it a thought until they approached you.  That's okay.  I just think that you have to remember what YOU want.  So they are offering you something (that you apparently don't need).  Does that mean you should take what they're giving?  Not unless you want to be a Navy Officer.  If this isn't part of your plan, it isn't worth it.

On the other hand, if you give it a try and it doesn't work out, you will survive it.  It's amazing what you can go through and come out alive at the other end.
Good luck.

[LaFeet]

For Dave,

 I managed to survive the navy, on submarines.  I never thought it was a joy ride, but allways managed to make the best of it. 

 My experiences and friendships I have earned help make me the person I am today.  And yes, there were times I felt the Navy screwed me over... I got my blue card now and I live pretty well.

 Life has no script, make your choice and stick to your guns.  If you do decide to join the Navy, Nuke School will be just one of your hurdles you will need to clear.  Junior officers are a dime a dozen and need to adapt rapidly.  Just remember, most of the enlisted operators can help you on your way, or they can make it miserable if you abuse them.

 Good luck either way.