Security Clearance Issues For Nuclear Field.

[NavyDepper]

Hello all.

I am currently a Navy Depper who originally wanted to join the Nuclear Field. Since I am a dual citizen of Iran and USA, I was told that in order to join the Nuclear Field I needed to renounce my Iranian citizenship in order to get the necessary clearance. Well much to my chagrin Iran does not allow one to renounce ones citizenship, and the best I could do was to obtain a letter from my embassy that I had given up my Iranian passport. Nevertheless my waiver to get into the nuclear field was denied, and so I had to settle for the program I had originally signed up with, which was AECF. Well I really did not want to go for the AECF program, so I was seriously thinking about leaving the Navy and pursuing a college degree before I was thrown a curveball. I was called in by the USIS and was told that due to the fact AECF also requires secret clearance, would I be willing to renounce my Iranian citizenship. Of course I told them that yes, I had already tried but was quite unsuccessful due to Iran's unwilligness of allowing its people to renounce their citizenship. I was then told that if that was the case, the Navy could possibly require me to renounce my citizenship by swearing in front of a military officer. Upon hearing this I was a bit miffed. Why had they not asked me to renounce my citizenship by swearing when I applied for the Nuke Field? I gave my recruiter an earful, and he in turn went to his chain of command. Apparently they were a bit astonished that the USIS had contacted me and seemed to have no clue on how to deal with a situation like mine (the Chief who called me up asked me if I was a citizen of Iran or Persia or both. Jeeeez!). Well apparently now I'm going to be contacted by more higher ups to assess my situation, and a decision might come god knows when.

So my question is... will I ever get the Secret Clearance I need for the Nuke Program or should I just quit my aspirations and focus on other things? I have been in Navy DEP for a LONG time now (10 months!). I'm getting a bit pissed off at this whole process and being told something different everyday. If I got a definitive answer that I had zero chance of getting into the Nuke Field I would just not bother going in the Navy cause I certainly don't want to do AECF. However I keep getting assurances from my recruiter that there might be some way of me getting in, yet my patience is getting quite thin.

If anyone can give me any advice or answers I would be really grateful. I hate being in the gray area.

[Samabby]

I don't recall anyone getting in Goose Creek without this clearance being issued and it doesn't appear likely to change in a case like yours. Good luck.

[Roll Tide]

I would seriously consider telling the Navy to take a hike (if you can do this by refusing to swear an oath). After you are out of the DEP program, then begin the application process anew. Right now, they view you as already designated for AECF. If you were not in DEP, they would be more responsive to getting you in the Nuke program.

But don't rush into this. That is how you ended up slated for AECF when you don't want it.

[NavyDepper]

I would seriously consider telling the Navy to take a hike (if you can do this by refusing to swear an oath). After you are out of the DEP program, then begin the application process anew. Right now, they view you as already designated for AECF. If you were not in DEP, they would be more responsive to getting you in the Nuke program.

But don't rush into this. That is how you ended up slated for AECF when you don't want it.

Thanks for the responses. Roll Tide I don't think I can do what you suggested. The way I got into AECF in the first place was because I could not choose Nuclear Field when I went down to MEPS. My recruiter told me to sign up for another field and then we would send in a waiver to get into the Nuke Field (they already knew about my dual citizenship status). If I were to start the process all over again it would be to no avail, as I would have to choose another field yet again down at MEPS.

Well I get the general feeling that my chances of getting into the Nuke Field are about 0%. That's ok, it was worth a try to get in. I appreciate the responses given here.

Funny thing, the Iranian consulate sent my passport back (I certainly didn't ask for it!),and much to my chagrin it's been renewed for another three years. Apparently they thought "renounce" means the same thing as "renew". LOL.

[taterhead]

I know that it's hard for you to understand, but you hold all the cards, even in your situation. 

The clearances are the same.  I don't understand the differentiation between Secret and Secret.

If I were you, I would tell that recruiter that I was having serious thoughts about backing out if he cannot give you the answer YOU are comfortable with.  You are still the customer, he wants/needs YOU to join up and ship out on the designated day.  Start playing your cards one at a time.  Tell him you are thinking about just going back to school.   Tell him you were offered a really good civilian job.  Tell him you do not want to be AECF.  If he calls your bluff, the recovery is easy.  If he buys it, he may work to get you the answer you want.

Also, have you spoken with the Nuclear detailer for your district about your situation?

[Roll Tide]

The way I got into AECF in the first place was because I could not choose Nuclear Field when I went down to MEPS. My recruiter told me to sign up for another field and then we would send in a waiver to get into the Nuke Field (they already knew about my dual citizenship status). If I were to start the process all over again it would be to no avail, as I would have to choose another field yet again down at MEPS.

If you went to a car lot and recieved this treatment, it would be called "bait and switch". Tell him you will do nothing except Nuke, and you were sent into AECF under false pretenses. Then they can call you back when they have a ship date for your guaranteed Nuke field.

[nucruiter]

The sad truth in this situation is that there is a list of countries that are much more difficult to get a clearance from. Iran is one of them.  By the recruiting manual, dual citizens from ANY country are not allowed into the nuclear field.  Even Canada, Mexico, or England.  The Iranian consulate is really holding you back on this one, however, I don't know everything about you, so I cannot ascertain as to whether or not your waiver has a chance.  Without renouncing though, your chance is ZERO.  Sorry, and good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Gonzo]

actually, this is good experience for you if you're entertaining the thought of a life in the navy...

[smoothtoaster]

My recruiter is from Liberia so I asked him about this. He could not get a secret clearance and says that you cannot get one as a native of another country.

--------------
smoothtoaster

[Navy2B]

I have accepted the bait and switch / 'wait for security clearance' waiwer request in good faith, and was sworn into the DEP program for AECF on July 30th. My ship date is Feb 07, 2007. I was told it would take no more than one month to get a response from the security waiver process people, and get a phone interview at my recruiter's place (in addition to some other paperwork). So I have some time to consider what's going on.

I am a naturalized US citizen, no citizenship elsewhere, officially a US citizen since 1999, but sworn in 2001 (renouncing citizenship to anywhere else in front of the Federal building personel that swore me in), and have been stateside for almost 19 years now (came to US at age 4). I'll be 23 in under a month. However, my nation of birth was China. How 'high' up the security totem pole is China considered? Will my time spent here be considered in the US be considered? What's my honest chances of being waivered? or is it a crap shoot?

My asvab scores were fairly typical of you guys here who've accrued college credits in a heavily technical college course set (majored in Chemical Engineering at Penn State University), so I know the recruiter and classifiers wanted me. Also rumour is, according to my recruiter, had highest math scores for AFQT that the job classifiers there at the MEP station in Pittsburgh was the highest they'd seen. "They" may or may not have been just the sole classifier that had only been there for 4 months, but it is still something I am proud of. Typical for you guys, but I am proud of having invested & completed heavy effort in chemistry, physics, and calculus coursework showing up in this aptitude test.

Honestly. Anyone know? Can anyone give a word of comfort or reassurance?

Edit:
PS: If anyone's interested, I had 73 credits completed towards my Chem E. Degree at PSU. I'm a little miffed NUPOC wasn't considered at time of sign-up and talking with the Officer recruiter, but getting in will be hard enough.

[HydroDave63]

I am a naturalized US citizen, no citizenship elsewhere, officially a US citizen since 1999, but sworn in 2001 (renouncing citizenship to anywhere else in front of the Federal building personel that swore me in), and have been stateside for almost 19 years now (came to US at age 4). I'll be 23 in under a month. However, my nation of birth was China. How 'high' up the security totem pole is China considered? Will my time spent here be considered in the US be considered? What's my honest chances of being waivered? or is it a crap shoot?

It's on the Sensitive Countries list, along with Belarus, Russia, Taiwan, Israel, etc.  I would doubt a clearance would be granted, hopefully I'm wrong...

[ChiefRocscooter]

Like I said the last time this thread came up (I think it's callled "the conract and the waiver") shadey recruiting at best!!  If you join it should you want to be in Navy for what you joined for not cause your gonna switch later (before you ship).  Tell the army/civilians that run meps that you are only depping in while you wait on a waiver (and do not plan to go if it is not granted) and see how well that gos over!  (proverbal terd in punch bowl)  Yes, you can refuse to swear in the second time and they will have to let you out of DEP (called Dep attrite, in fact you do not even have to go to MEPS a second time (oops I guess I should not have let that secrect out )).  Yes you can get in after doing so by getting a dep attrite waiver (given the situation I am sure it would be granted, by CO of recruiting district). Here is the simple break down:
1. Join the Navy cause you want to be in NAVY! (if you fail to make nuc they will not let you out with a handshake!)
2. Be a Nuke cause it is what you want to do/learn!
3. Always have a worst case plan and be ready!
4. A verbal promise last as long as its echo! (if you wnet and bought a corvette and they gave you the keys to a malibu guess what you are driving home!)
5. "STOP, LOOK, LISTEN" is not just for little kids croissing the street. (get info from unbiased people then decide, FYI I am in now and have been for almost 23 years, love the Navy and do not want you in it if you are going to be pissed off from day 1 or the day you get bounced from nuc program)!

Rob

[Navy2B]

Tell the army/civilians that run meps that you are only depping in while you wait on a waiver (and do not plan to go if it is not granted) and see how well that gos over

Are you serious?

1. Join the Navy cause you want to be in NAVY! (if you fail to make nuc they will not let you out with a handshake!)
2. Be a Nuke cause it is what you want to do/learn!
3. Always have a worst case plan and be ready!
4. A verbal promise last as long as its echo! (if you wnet and bought a corvette and they gave you the keys to a malibu guess what you are driving home!)
5. "STOP, LOOK, LISTEN" is not just for little kids croissing the street. (get info from unbiased people then decide, FYI I am in now and have been for almost 23 years, love the Navy and do not want you in it if you are going to be pissed off from day 1 or the day you get bounced from nuc program)!

What info should I be looking for? Honestly, the only people that are in have some bias because they were either navy or ex navy, and the Navy treated them well. My army friends also tell me they'd go Navy because the Navy officers (while doing joint ops) always treated them better. It is my aspiration to be one of those Navy guys, but some bias in the information gathering is unavoidable.

I do agree about the last statement. I don't want to go in, if I'm not going to be happy about that. I'm a little annoyed, but right now I look forward to it all and trying to get the best option I can (taking lessons from you guys, I refuse word of mouth roadblocks unless it is quoted and shown by the book -- getting the truth is hairy sometimes, but in my best interest).

I'm joining the Navy for 1-2, but here for 3, and because I understand 4.

Don't get me wrong, I've been advised by friends to enjoy regular ET (from a nuke MM-ELT of 9 years straight out of highschool no less) and everyone I've met that was in AECF seems overall happier and more well balanced (no offense to nuke guys, you just have to handle more stress than the rest, so your temperament may be different).

I *like* the Navy, and I think I'd enjoy the AECF life, but I'd probably apply for sta commissioning earlier as a regular ET than a nuke enlister.

Worst case scenario (I think), I go as an ET, have an 'easy' time, and grab my credits in college, and finish my BS degree in Chem E coming out age 29 with both Navy and College experience. That isn't a bad life by any means. However...

#2. Ideally, I'd love to work hard and possibly even apply for sta, finish degree (not as hard as it has to given I'm a few steps ahead in that field), and come back serving as a Nuke Officer, and serve the Navy and enlisted guys from all sides. Navy enlisted, College /w engineering degree, and through OCS & Nuke pipeline with you guys.

I have gripes IF its not all above board (if someone isn't following regs...), but so far it seems to be. I'm planning for #3, worst case, in case #4 verbal promise of security waiver's not being filed.

I'm told it takes no more than a month, so I should have a response by end of august, or mid september. I am hopeful, but not totally bonkers. My ship date is scheduled for Feb, so there SHOULD be plenty of time to sort anything screwloose out.

Is the security clearance estimate of one month true? If so, I would have a few chances in case someone's not doing their filing as they should. My recruiter's station should get word, contact me, do an interview by phone over there, sign paperworks, all within a month (I'm guessing two) the Job classifier at MEPS said (I wish I asked to see the actual regulation book on that). If not... I have 5 months (Ship date Feb 07, 2007) to sort everything out and either come to terms and be happy or request to the CO of MEPS wanting out.

I'm aware that I may write a letter to the CO of the MEPs station requesting to leave the DEP program up until the day of shipping out. I think I have enough time. I requested at least a few months from the job classifier, but apparantly there were no slots available for until Feb, which is good for me (more time to sort things out, and to exercise)

If not accepted, see you nukes from the other side. This will be one ET who won't give Navy nukes any flack for what they do.

I realize I may seem like a fidgeting little kid. But honestly, there's nothing else I can do at this moment than prepare information for the worst, and make sure my options are good even then. I'm doing the best I can, but while I'm not shipped out, I'm going to be a bit edgy on tenuous ground because it all comes down to processing and clearance that's invisible to me at this point. Will I be faulted for being born elsewhere after swearing to be a citizen here and to serve here? That would be sad for me. I won't deny I wouldn't like that. I still look forward to Navy life (though gunning for an officer position  ).

I really do like the Navy. I have friends in the Navy and US Armed Forces. Their respect and support is really helpful in choosing to go navy. It wasn't a requirement for me, but I appreciate them and you guys here for filling me in and lending a helpful word here and there. Thanks for giving me an honest and useful response.

I REALLY hope the security clearance guys are competent and the 'rules' are fair and followed. Then they'd see I am just an honest 23 yr old kid who's naturalized, been here almost 2 decades with my parents, with no ties or holdings to foreign interests (other than simply birth), and serve as best I can without getting into trouble. But all that seems out of my hands, and I cannot find any unclassified regulation #'s that deal with this specific proceedure.

If their noses are clean, without bias, and follow their rules... I'll be satisified, but I would like to make use of proper proceedures if I suspect there's improper proceedures being done (following in line with suggestion #3, and partly #4 preparing for worst)

[ChiefRocscooter]

As to your first part I meant it if you would have told the MEPS people that you were only joining "while you wait on a wavier" they proverbal brown stuff would have hit the fan.  They do not allow you to dep if you are not going to go if waiver is not granted! Several reason for but just the plain cost (man hours paper work ect...) is one big one.
On your second part you sound like your on the right track and maybe everyone has an opinion to the on side or the other you just have to look how they present to decide if it is listening to.
If you want to be an officer 1st and Nuc second, I would suggest going AECF.  Now this may sound funny but in my experience it is harder as a Nuc to get picked up for these kind of programs.  I know right now everyone is saying , look at the statistic yadayadayda.
Ok here is my point: most of the people in the nuc program qualify for the commsioning programs, so to keep from loseing everyone to them the Nuc program puts a "you have to be high standing in class and GPA" requirement to get and good endorsement.  As an AECF ET your chances of being at top of class and being a "hot runner" is much greater! (there will be some highschool kid with no college that will blow away Nuc school, I am telling you it happen all the time!!)  On top of that remember as Nuc (even MM) you are looking at 12+ months to get it done. You can submit for STA but if you were ET in fleet working hard and doing bang up job your endorsement will be eiaser to get! To say nothing of the "better" life style, being a Navy engineer (and I am proud to be one can be hard).
I think (my opinion here) your chances of make Officer will be greater as non nuc than nuc, besides as nuc you can forget college during most of your first tour, an an ET (AECF type) you can keep doing college class once you get to fleet (that part of the easy life style too).
DID any one talk to you about CTI (another clearence issue but... if you speak farsi the money is good and so is the life!!)  Alway remeber that recruiter get more points(on the quota system) for NUC and AECF (used to at least) than just regular old Navy.
Rob
   

[Navy2B]

If you want to be an officer 1st and Nuc second, I would suggest going AECF. (snip)

Yes, I've read and generally concur it is easier for non-nukes to be officers. I hope to serve as either a Nuke OR an Officer for/within the next 8 years (more or less). I would prefer nuke first as I understand that provides more civilian opportunities, but I do look forward to having a fair shot at being an officer.

It is my belief that I will pass the clearance as stated in the unclassified DODD 5220.6, Enclosure 2, however it is my fear that the security clearance process will be an exhaustive process, if it comes to Enclosure 3 (E3.1.1).

When the DISCO cannot affirmatively find that it is clearly consistent with the national interest to grant or continue a security clearance for an applicant, the case shall be promptly referred to the DOHA.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html/52206.htm

That's an extensive process that may happen, and that's going to be tough if I must deal with it. Seperate pre-hearing (E3.1.9), hearing (E3.1.8.) with witnesses (E3.1.15) and appeal processes (E3.1.28.)

I do not look forward to that, but if it must come... I'll as prepared as within my reach.

Maybe I don't need all that, but better to have a condom and not need it, than need one and not have it--so long as the condom didn't cost the world.

DID any one talk to you about CTI (another clearence issue but... if you speak farsi the money is good and so is the life!!) 

If CTI is counterintelligence, when I asked about the Navy coding scores, I was only told CTI wasn't an appealing job because outside the Navy, anything I did while inside would be classified, so I may not have terribly great opportunities if I ever went out. I was not told by the recruiter or classifiers any real details about it.

My navy speed coding score was 10(11?) million + 26, and I completed approx 80-90 questions on that coding quiz while the stated goal was 74-76 and that not everyone completes that many. I have no idea how that figure translates into the CTI field, and the job classifier did not investigate for me as I did not specifically ask him to see if I qualified. I did ask how that score related in compared to others, but the classifier stated did not know.

I'm probably going to be posting here a lot this coming month. Thanks again for having such a nice community here and providing suggestions/answers/questions/etc.

[ChiefRocscooter]

CTI is crypto tech Interpeter.  Yes it is mostly an in the service job, but on the outside statedept, cia, dia different type of job if you like Tech stuff your on right path I just wanted to mention the possibility.  Given the curent world affiars you will likely be asked agian (with your background) as they are always looking for native speakers

Rob

[Roll Tide]

If CTI is counterintelligence, when I asked about the Navy coding scores, I was only told CTI wasn't an appealing job because outside the Navy, anything I did while inside would be classified, so I may not have terribly great opportunities if I ever went out. I was not told by the recruiter or classifiers any real details about it.

For the record, every person with a clearance signs a statement that they will not reveal classified information after they are discharged. Yet as a former Navy Nuke, I was valuable to future employers because I had already learned how to operate / troubleshoot / maintain a nuclear plant.

You can't get out and operate identical CTI gear, but you would have a huge advantage over someone that had never seen any CTI gear. Perhaps you should evaluate this option further.

[visserjr]

So...let me see. After reading the Tolstoy novel...A dual citizen from Iran wants to be a Nuke, and the Navy said no? To the Person from Persia, they are right you can tell the Navy to stick it. You do not belong to them until you swear in the second before boot camp. Then wait a few months, and reapply. If this still causes trouble, I am sure there are just as rewarding engineering jobs of lesser security clearances in any branch if the armed forces. Best of Luck.

[abbreviation.a.p]

NavyDepper (or anyone else with the same problem) you should know that It is very much possible to apply for renunciation of your Iranian citizenship. I am currently holding both Iranian and Danish citizenship. I would like to travel to Iran with my Danish passport like other Danes, so I applied for renunciation of my Iranian citizenship and I am still waiting for a response to my application. The staff in the Iranian consulate could not understand what I meant when I said: Mikhaam tarke taabeiat konam (I want to renounce my citizenship). So I had to explain which documents I had to hand in and so on. You can read more about this on the web page for Iranian ministry of foreign affairs
http://www.mfa.gov.ir/NewsShow.aspx?id=924&menu=196&lang=en
On the bottom of the above link you find the applications you need to fill out and hand in to the Iranian consulate.

[retired nuke]

Dear NavyDepper, It is very much possible to apply for renunciation of your Iranian citizenship. My parents are both Iranian and I live in Denmark. I am currently holding both Iranian and Danish citizenship. I would like to travel to Iran with my Danish passport like other Danes, so I applied for renunciation of my Iranian citizenship about six month ago and I am still waiting for a response to my application (they told me the processing time will be more than 8 month). As in your situation the staff in the Iranian consulate could not understand what I meant when I said: Mikhaam tarke taabeiat konam (I want to renounce my citizenship). So I held a small lecture for the head of the staff and explained which documents I had to hand in. You can read more about this on the web page for Iranian ministry of foreign affairs
http://www.mfa.gov.ir/NewsShow.aspx?id=924&menu=196&lang=en
On the bottom of the above link you find the applications you need to fill out and hand in to the Iranian consulate. Please feel free to ask me about anything about this subject. Good luck. Regards, A.P.

Did you realize that the last post was over 6 yrs old?

[abbreviation.a.p]

Yes I did, HouseDad. I thought there might be other with the same problem as NavyDepper .

[HydroDave63]

Yes I did. I thought there might be other with the same problem as NavyDepper .

I'd be willing to bet a plate of fesenjan that NavyDepper didn't get into the program.

[abbreviation.a.p]

For NavyDepper's sake I hope you are wrong, HydroDave63 .
Besides, that is an unfair bet, unless you know how to make vegan fesenjan.

[HydroDave63]

For NavyDepper's sake I hope you are wrong, HydroDave63 .
Besides, that is an unfair bet, unless you know how to make vegan fesenjan.

The fesenjan that I order is always vegan. I simply let the duck eat all of the plant matter for me ahead of time

[abbreviation.a.p]

Very funny, HydroDave63.