Moving from OPS to Engineering

[BuckyNuke]

I'm still waiting to hear back from oyster creek for an NLO position (it's not a good sign that the HR person will not return any calls or emails, even due to the fact i got charged $200 for the hotel stay in NJ and need an expense form...), and just last night i got a call about the reactor systems engineering position at monticello. i'm just wondering how easy it is to move from the operations group to an engineering group, and when is a good time to do that in the first years of a career.

thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out.
i've really been enjoying reading a lot of the information that people have been posting here.

[Roll Tide]

Most well-staffed OPS departments would love to have a couple of former OPS in various disciplines throughout the plant. The only draw-back: you have to wait until OPS can afford to lose you and ENG needs you. In general, it is a good plan.

[thenuttyneutron]

I am trying to follow Roll Tides plan.  I am a NLO and hope to go to class for a license within the next 3-4 years.  I then want to become a reactor engineer with a license.  I think former ops people would make very good engineers, they have been in the field and have practical knowledge. 

[Fermione]

BuckyNuke,
One reason you might not have heard back from them is we are having a refuel outage and most everyone on site gets an outage assignment.  Some HR personnel are serving as "greeters" at RCA entrances.
Fermione

[Roll Tide]

Let me clarify my remarks: You have to get an SRO license in order to move over with the support of OPS. You are not as valuable to OPS when you get to ENG without the SRO license.

[BuckyNuke]

Hey everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know that I am alive and well after my 7 month job search ended successfully at Harris Nuclear Plant in North Carolina (Progress Energy). It's a FANTASTIC place to work in my opinion, despite some staffing issues. I'm about 4 months into my NLO training, and hopefully will be fully qualified by next January or February.

We're hearing rumors of the NRC trying to require nuclear operations to more adequately staff shifts, which means less overtime for me . However, due to this new plan being set forth by the NRC, it looks like our NLO class (13 of us, big class for 1 unit) will get a shot at RO class next June (only 18 months at the plant). In addition, they want to bring in another NLO class this August to start training straight through and during the outage. Our training staff is pretty stressed as it is, so it will be interesting (they're still doing a fantastic job, INPO has been giving them wondeful feedback with some of their new training programs for Initial License classes as well as NLOIT).

We're also trying to beef up staff for the possibility of placing 2 AP-1000s at the Harris site. It's a very exciting time to be working at Harris in my opinion.

[thenuttyneutron]

Wow, 13 is a lot for NLO.  I hired in as a NLO at Davis-Besse 2 years ago.  That class was 11 strong.  6 months later they hired another batch of 9 and are talking of getting 4 more.  The industry will need even more.

I am already looking at the possibility at jumping ship over to engineering as a reactor engineer.  After a candid talk with my plant manager, I think me getting RE quals finished before licensing is the best move.  I know that for SROs, once on shift are not let loose.  I doubt I would get out of Ops as an SRO to go to the reactor engineering side.

[BuckyNuke]

I don't know what kind of career path being a reactor engineer would plot out for someone, but at Harris, I think it makes sense to stay within operations. With the new plants that will most likely be built in the next 5-10 years, there will be many new operations positions being created. That being said, I believe Progress will be drawing their operators from their current fleet of operators at Robinson, Brunswick and Harris (maybe some from Crystal River that are willing to relocate from Florida, but they'll have the Levy County AP-1000 down there). They will have to make a new organizational tree for the AP-1000s, which most of it will be separate from the current PWR fleet, since it is a brand new type of plant. I think I'd like to stay in operations and try to become an SSO at the new reactors and then attempt to move into upper management from there. I will continue to discuss these opportunities with SROs at Harris.

There is a major difference from what it seems is your situation at D-B, being that there is no direct RO or SRO class without being an NLO first. That might change however with our current staffing issues that could face us in the coming years.

[nukedog]

This sounds great for OPs, but how will this effect HPs. You see there is adequate training programs for OPs at any nuclear plant, but I know of no HP training programs. The Industry better get a clue, I am 42 years old and I am one of the youngest HPs at my plant. It will take 5 years to adequately train a new recruit. Just something to ponder!

[Fermi2]

Yeah but by law you only need 4 HP/RP Techs per plant. Assuming they are on 12s. And there's no legal requirements on how to train them. (Don't say ANSI because ANSI is NOT a legal requirement, its a recommendation!!!)

I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the HP/RP guys and gals here. Every nuke plant needs good people in every position to be successful but lets face it, the RP Trainiing Pipe Line is a LOT shorter AND less clogged with regulation than the Ops pipeline.

Mike

[Roll Tide]

Every nuke plant needs good people in every position to be successful but lets face it, the RP Trainiing Pipe Line is a LOT shorter AND less clogged with regulation than the Ops pipeline.

"If you pay it, they will come..."
Like many other nuke trades, RP will have to shell out some serious $$$ in the years to come. But with only a few veterans, they could hire and train the rest of the RP staff during construction of a given plant.


All in all, it is a good time to be in Nuclear Power. But especially good to be in Nuclear Power in the South!

[Marlin]

Yeah but by law you only need 4 HP/RP Techs per plant. Assuming they are on 12s. And there's no legal requirements on how to train them. (Don't say ANSI because ANSI is NOT a legal requirement, its a recommendation!!!)

I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the HP/RP guys and gals here. Every nuke plant needs good people in every position to be successful but lets face it, the RP Trainiing Pipe Line is a LOT shorter AND less clogged with regulation than the Ops pipeline.

Mike

BZ how many plants do know that operate with four technicians. That is a number that originated from the plant designers when they were selling the plants to the utilities ( even if it is law now). You are very right about the training pipeline for RP/HP techs it takes only a short course to get them started. But like EMT's and policemen who also start with a limited training period a good part of thier job is learned in the field not from piping and electrical diagrams. Outside of annoying operators and maintenance people at control points which is where many Rad Techs start, the biggest part of a techs job is to assess, document, and communicate radiological hazard. This is best done in the field with a common sense training program to advance technical knowledge, this still takes time or you will end up hiring twice the number of technicians to so the same job.

[Fermi2]

I knew what I said might be a bit contentious, and I certainly didn't mean it to be. A training program is NOT the education we all receive when we go out to do our jobs in our version of the big people world. What you supplied was what I call the education aspect not the training of our business and yes there is a difference.

However from a legal aspect you only need a certain amount of people to operate a plant. Many Operations Departments do it all the time. My first 2 years at Fermi everyone was at Minimum Complement and the shifts had to do a lot of stuff that is not done offshift so it COULD happen. The NRC doesn't care how many over you are so long as you have the ONE person they legally require. I'd hope a utility would be smarter than that.

I read something HILARIOUS a few years back. In Davis Besses original FSAR they planned on staffing that entire station with 169 people, roughly 30% or so were operators with an HP Department of 7 people. Guess they were a few off.

Mike

[retired nuke]

Yeah but by law you only need 4 HP/RP Techs per plant. Assuming they are on 12s. And there's no legal requirements on how to train them. (Don't say ANSI because ANSI is NOT a legal requirement, its a recommendation!!!)

I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the HP/RP guys and gals here. Every nuke plant needs good people in every position to be successful but lets face it, the RP Trainiing Pipe Line is a LOT shorter AND less clogged with regulation than the Ops pipeline.

Mike

Funny, it took a year to get our latest crop of RP techs trained and qualified, and they were all 3.1s when they got here. AOs took about 8 months, and many were non nukes before they got here. Now licensing is another issue, but RP techs and AOs are about equal responsibility/pay here.

[RDTroja]

And there's no legal requirements on how to train them. (Don't say ANSI because ANSI is NOT a legal requirement, its a recommendation!!!)

It is not a legal requirement, but once the plant commits to the NRC that they will follow an ANSI standard (or any other commitment) the NRC will require that the commitment be upheld... a deFacto requirement if not a law. More semantics (I like semantics, within reason.) Other commitments that require more than 4 techs are in Emergency Response Plans, which can also lead to a non-operating plant ala Shoreham.

And no, you can't call INPO Accreditation a law, but try to keep operating your plant if you lose the accreditiation... Ops is not the only accredited program. Would losing accreditation for HP or Chemistry lose a plant its keys? I don't know for sure, but I think it would be an unpleasant experience for a plant to find out. It is true that the RP pipeline is far less onerous than Ops, as it should be. A poorly trained operator can do more damage than a poorly trained RP tech.

I read something HILARIOUS a few years back. In Davis Besses original FSAR they planned on staffing that entire station with 169 people, roughly 30% or so were operators with an HP Department of 7 people. Guess they were a few off.

I read some of Big Rock Point's original documents when I was there... I think they were even further off. If I remember correctly they called for fewer than 100 people. Things are going to be interesting in the near future in this industry. Reminds me of an old Chinese curse that goes 'May you live in interesting times.'

[Fermi2]

Even when committed to an ANSI standard you can determine an alternate method of complying with that standard.

As for your E PLAN Items. Great point.

Accreditation: There is only one accredited program that can shut you down and that is Ops. The reason being years ago the NRC Made a decision that if a Ops program was acredited it by default met the requirements of training for 10CFR under most conditions, ie they needn't do detailed inspections and their own accreditation. If you lose accreditation you no longer comply with the only training program that by law the facility has to have.

As for Training AUOs, for Housedad are you SURE it took 8 months to train them and qualify them? Average time is 15 months going on 18 months now for a fully qualified AUO.
Also AUO are never the limit on the pipeline. Its license training and mostly due to the simulator.

By the way remember I like ALL nukes !!!

Mike

[hamsamich]

It took me over a year to qualify aux operator, and that was after the 3 month training program, and to be qualified to run radwaste it was 2 years later.....never been a house HP...just a bit of real world data

[Fermi2]

It took me about 10 months but that was in 1990. Now it takes longer. IIRC Fermi had over 8 months of classroom when I left in 2005.

I'm wondering what it means to be qualified in RP. Here is why, IIRC RP was a task qual at Fermi, ie after some initial basic type training as the Tech got qualified at certain tasks he/she couple perform them independently. In fact I taught systems training for new RP techs and I know they were doing "real" work for quite sometime prior to taking that course. Maintenance was very similar.

MAYBE after I take my written SRO Exam next week (which SHOULD have been this week) I'll be less cranky!! (No I won't, I'm cranky both under pressure and without it!) I'll say this again, DO NOT, I REPEAT do NOT submit yourself to a major training program when you are in your 40s!!!!. If I didn't like operating Nukes so much, and if I didn't like the idea of having SRO licenses at a BWR and a PWR I'd have said screw this!! But dang the rewards are great!

Mike

[RDTroja]

I'm wondering what it means to be qualified in RP. Here is why, IIRC RP was a task qual at Fermi, ie after some initial basic type training as the Tech got qualified at certain tasks he/she couple perform them independently. In fact I taught systems training for new RP techs and I know they were doing "real" work for quite sometime prior to taking that course. Maintenance was very similar.

An accurate assessment in that RP qualification is indeed a series of individual qualifications that culminate in a 'Shift Qualified' technician. When you are fully qualified you can stand shift alone and independently perform all of the tasks of an RP technician. The sum of the parts, and all that. While going through the qualification process you can be partially qualified and still do unsupervised work as long as you have 'that' qual. Indeed there are some qualifications that fully 'Shift Qualified' technicians may not get (for instance, operating remote monitoring equipment may not be part of a shift qual since it is not required to do the job.) So a 'fully qualified' technician may not have some specific quals and a technician that is not qualified to stand shift may have some quals that a 'Shift Tech' does not. I love nuclear power. So, how long does it take to get qualified? Good question. I don't have an answer, but good question.

[Fermi2]

Same with maintenance. I saw fully qualified Electricians who couldn't work on MOVs. And Mechanics who weren't allowed to tighten fittings.

In Ops you aren't allowed to do anything at most plants without going through the entire qual program.

Mike

[Roll Tide]

I tend to think that the movers and shakers who are contemplating the construction of the next generation of USA nukes must be looking at lessons learned from decommissioning costs,...

Is this the point where Carvey and Meyers yell, "Fish-heads!" and do the gill motion with their hands?

This was supposed to be part of the criteria in the Navy (where most vessels are gone at the 30 year point) but usually managed to fall through the cracks.

[Mike McFarlin]

Congrats on the new job, see ya next outage.

[DangerNut]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I had questions along the same path as the OP. As anyone recently made a move from a non licensed position in Ops to an Engineering field? Im finishing up a BS in NET and considering this path as an option.