Rent a tech Union debate

[retired nuke]

who signs yer check?  dew they pay area consistent per diem?  is the hourly rate on par with house pay?  what insurance company supplies the med/dental/death/ etc. benefits and is it included or taken out of your pay?  is diablo canyon a union shop or open?  is per diem paid on a scheduled day off?  an unscheduled day off?  what travel pay in and out is offered? 

Diablo did away with contractor companies entirely in the early 90s. All are brought in as temp house employees, and get the same as house do. PD, travel, etc is the same as the regular house gets if they go out of town for work / training.

I would love to see more plants do this. But, at least with Entergy, multiple sites each have different contracts, and the pay / travel / PD that has been negotiated can get steep. We get local IRS rates, wages while traveling, holiday / DT / OT rates as per our home contracts. Can get confusing to the other plant when they hafta follow 3 contracts. Of course, house techs traveling within the utility are already trained / qualified under an accredited training program, and are a more or less known quantity. We literally show up with our security badge in-hand, get our TLD, and a tour, and off to work we go. We are even able to review procedures,schedules, etc from our home plant before we leave, so we are familiar with the assignment.

But, it would be good to see more utilities doing what Diablo did - they NEVER have problems staffing.

[SloGlo]

Diablo did away with contractor companies entirely in the early 90s. All are brought in as temp house employees, and get the same as house do. PD, travel, etc is the same as the regular house gets if they go out of town for work / training.

I would love to see more plants do this. But, at least with Entergy, multiple sites each have different contracts, and the pay / travel / PD that has been negotiated can get steep. We get local IRS rates, wages while traveling, holiday / DT / OT rates as per our home contracts. Can get confusing to the other plant when they hafta follow 3 contracts. Of course, house techs traveling within the utility are already trained / qualified under an accredited training program, and are a more or less known quantity. We literally show up with our security badge in-hand, get our TLD, and a tour, and off to work we go. We are even able to review procedures,schedules, etc from our home plant before we leave, so we are familiar with the assignment.

But, it would be good to see more utilities doing what Diablo did - they NEVER have problems staffing.

i'm taking it that as temp house mice, you get a temp union card.  what mechanism is available to carry the card after leaving?  what's the cobra like on the insurances?  as temp utility employees, do you have to pay california taxes or are you allowed to have yer home state withheld?  are locals given preference in the hiring?

[biloxoi blues]

Do the techs get travel in and out each day going to work at Diablo?

[jjordan]

Lots of reasons diablo can staff. !. Union Contract=Good pay, and benefits. 2. Location=Nicer weather than 9 Mile, Perry Fermi, Point Beach, ect. also on the ocean with things to do. 3. I can't verify this, but some who have worked there will. "They treat you right". I don't know if there is a n option to retain your membership. I kind of doubt it, but it's a very good question. i would keep it up if i was able to. Cobra is law for 18 months, but it's so high most can't afford it, and it may be with a provider you can't find with other empoyers, ie Bartlett or Atlantic. Bartletts blueCross was actually very good when I worked there. Health care is a top reason for getting a union. I said on a previous post, there is economy of numbers. 2000 people can negoitiate a better rate than 30. the IBEW probably already has something in place that works nationwide. If you have BlueCross of MA with Bartlett and you go to the doctor in say TX or WA, do you think you may be slightly out of network? Not sure how Blue cross works anymore, because it doesn't impact me anymore, but I do carry Blue Cross, I pay extra for it, but I like it. it works well for me.
JJ

[jjordan]

Not true - the utility is not the employer - big Blue or the A team are the employer. The contract would be with the employer. That employer would then be obligated to include contract provisions within their contract with the utility as necessary. Craft contractor companies like Stone & Webster, Bechtel, etc do this all the time. They even have the added problem of having to deal with multiple local craft unions, although local building and trades councils usually negotiate common agreements for work.
The utilites don't give a R/A what the contractor has for union / non union - they evaluate based upon cost, reliability, ability to complete the job, etc.

Snake,
They do care! About their precious money, and control. If they have a non union site, they are leary of intrducing the dreaded union virus, because it spreads very rapidly, when exposed to break trailer gossip. Hp's get mad as hell when they find out someone is getting a nckle more an hour, or someone got a free hat. The reasons the contract company will have to ressist is, they have to compete with non union low ball bidders, and it will be difficult if the utilities think they can staff. They want to keep as much of their precious budget money, so there is more for their golden parachute when THEY retire. They aren't worried about you or me. They're taking our benefits, while increasing theirs. Read the papers, or better yet, some utilities proxy statements. It's America, capitalisim at its finest. They hold the pursestrings, don't you dare try to tug on them! Paybacks are a bitch!
JJ

[BuddyThePug]

its starting to sound like the smart questions are gitting axed this time around. 

I've got a few...

Of what group would you need 65% ? Wouldn't it work the other way around; it's completely voluntary whether you sign up and pay dues for the IBEW 1500 card, and by the wonders of the internet, one signs up on the Hall(s) near the outages one wishes to wrk, as JJ described in an earlier post? In those states that are closed shop, "too bad so sad" you shoulda had the card?

Do we know if the IBEW or OCAW or whoever, would supply the Hazwopper , NRRPT , Core training, etc?

Thanks!

[youngrv]

The problem is the National Labor Realtions Act excludes independent contractors from coverage under this law.  Without NLRB support it will never hold up. www.nlrb.com

In order to form a union you need to have a collective bargaining contract.  If you want a union fine, kazaam all members on this site are union members of the local 5.27.  Now what are you going to do with the union status.  Without a collelctive bargaining contract you cannot force the site to abide by any of the rules that your union sets forth.  In fact, it is in this CBC that the pay and benefits are spelled out.  The only benefit you could achieve from a union, is to pay dues normally 1-4 dollars per hour of wages earned to the union hall and then have them lobby for more restrictions on who can and cannot perform your job.

Oh and by the way unions are not recognized on federal employment sites, so now all the DOE techs are out.

Not true - the utility is not the employer - big Blue or the A team are the employer. The contract would be with the employer. That employer would then be obligated to include contract provisions within their contract with the utility as necessary. Craft contractor companies like Stone & Webster, Bechtel, etc do this all the time. They even have the added problem of having to deal with multiple local craft unions, although local building and trades councils usually negotiate common agreements for work.
The utilites don't give a R/A what the contractor has for union / non union - they evaluate based upon cost, reliability, ability to complete the job, etc.

[SloGlo]

when i have been on a hazwoper site, most of the unions supplied the training to their members free of charge.  re: nrrpt, you'd have to ask a union shop if the local supplied training, the utility supplied it, or nobuddy cared.  re: core, see previous, nrrpt.

[SloGlo]

[quote author=youngrv link=topic=9829.msg51682#msg51682 date=1168732030

Oh and by the way unions are not recognized on federal employment sites, so now all the DOE techs are out.

[/quote]

excuse me?

Title VII of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA), established into law a system for federal employees to form, join, or assist any labor organization, or to refrain from any such activity, freely and without fear of penalty or reprisal. Once formed, these labor organizations exclusively represent the bargaining unit employees in all matters affecting their working conditions. This portion of the CSRA U.S. Code (Chapter 71 of Title 5 of the U.S. Code) is referred to as the Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute (the Statute.)

[youngrv]

As usual with laws you have to dig into the code to understand all of the loopholes.  I neither have the time nor the inclination to argue with you but I can cut and paste also.  Why do you keep talking about it.  Call the International Association of Machinist, United Steelworkers, any union would love to take your money in the form of dues.  But, as I said before, forming the union is easy; getting a contract is going to be the hard part.

Workers Excluded from NLRB Coverage

The NLRA does not include coverage for all workers. The Act specifically excludes from its coverage individuals who are:
employed as agricultural laborers
employed in the domestic service of any person or family in a home
employed by a parent or spouse
employed as an independent contractor
employed as a supervisor (supervisors that have been discriminated against for refusing to violate the NLRA may be covered)
employed by an employer subject to the Railway Labor Act, such as railroads and airlines
employed by Federal, state, or local government
employed by any other person who is not an employer as defined in the NLRA

When you argue with an idiot he will bring you down to his level and then when only do to experience.

[Rennhack]

employed by Federal, state, or local government

That has nothing to do with DOE RCT's.  They work for a sub contractor, or prime contractor, ala Bechtel.

There are TONS of unions at DOE sites, I know Oak Ridge has them, and the RCT's at Hanford are Union, I believe.

[atomicarcheologist]

youngrv,

Who are you talking about?

National Labor Realtions Act
Workers Excluded from NLRB Coverage
The NLRA

Are these three separate organizations or are you attempting to be one with the SloGlo?

[jjordan]

I've got a few...

Of what group would you need 65% ? Wouldn't it work the other way around; it's completely voluntary whether you sign up and pay dues for the IBEW 1500 card, and by the wonders of the internet, one signs up on the Hall(s) near the outages one wishes to wrk, as JJ described in an earlier post? In those states that are closed shop, "too bad so sad" you shoulda had the card?

Do we know if the IBEW or OCAW or whoever, would supply the Hazwopper , NRRPT , Core training, etc?

Thanks!

Buddy,
The group you need 65% of would be the eligible voters as determined by the NLRB. Who would that be? You would need to recruit anyone and everyone that may be interested in joining. The NLRB will have a hearing. Unless, if you have over 50%, you can ask the employers to be automatically recognized without a vote. Better chance of getting Elvis to sign up. At the hearing the empoyers and employees argue as to who should be included or not. At Brunswick we did it right at the local courthouse. On a national level who knows where, but I'd kind of bet on DC. As for the training, the IBEW could provide any and all that would be desired. All they need to do is get their trainers certified by OSHA, and they can train you. I got my Hazwhopper, supervisors, Asbestos, supervisor, Lead Abatement, and supervisor through my union at no cost. They also paid my wages. Paid for my motel, and travel to PA from NC when I moved down here. Yeah they only care about taking your money! As for the NRRPT, they just have to ask permission to proctor the test. I believe all they need is a member that holds the certification to sign and it can happen also. we would have members that could and would make that happen.
JJ

[jjordan]

The problem is the National Labor Realtions Act excludes independent contractors from coverage under this law.  Without NLRB support it will never hold up. www.nlrb.com

In order to form a union you need to have a collective bargaining contract.  If you want a union fine, kazaam all members on this site are union members of the local 5.27.  Now what are you going to do with the union status.  Without a collelctive bargaining contract you cannot force the site to abide by any of the rules that your union sets forth.  In fact, it is in this CBC that the pay and benefits are spelled out.  The only benefit you could achieve from a union, is to pay dues normally 1-4 dollars per hour of wages earned to the union hall and then have them lobby for more restrictions on who can and cannot perform your job.

Oh and by the way unions are not recognized on federal employment sites, so now all the DOE techs are out.

First,
Thank you for providing the link. This is a government run site, so it isn't biased one way or the other. It's not exactly fair , but what did you expect from the Feds? JJ isn't sugar coating anything there. Questions, go look it up there or other goverment sites. The IBEW also has web a site, but you all might think they are liars, but if you have  a lick of sense I hope you would be able to tell. Now 1 to 4 dollars per hour seems a we bit ludicrus, try $20 to $40/ month depending if you want the A or B level of coverage. Lobby for more restrictions, yeah they will if that's what you want, because you are their boss. I don't think thats the way my union will go as long as I can still have disscussions like this and can vote on it! I worked at a DOE facility for several years, and I was union for most of the time. Ohhh did we make good money! Double time, meal money and show up pay, travel pay, and we were local! Paid rest periods. The place was called Shippingport, and I was a shop steward for a good bit of my time there!
JJ

[UncaBuffalo]

Diablo did away with contractor companies entirely in the early 90s. All are brought in as temp house employees, and get the same as house do. PD, travel, etc is the same as the regular house gets if they go out of town for work / training.

But, it would be good to see more utilities doing what Diablo did - they NEVER have problems staffing.

Columbia also hires temps directly, but only during non-outage times.  Apparently they can't build up as deep of resume base as Diablo, because they still use a contract company during outages.

It will be interesting to see if Diablo has a deep enough resume base to staff their SGRPs.

[UncaBuffalo]

Do the techs get travel in and out each day going to work at Diablo?

I haven't worked there in a couple of years, but I remember it only being for overtime days...

[biloxoi blues]

hmmmm,  so far I havent heard any bad things about the non-contractor plants.  Since IM from Florida (and we do not know how to vote) can I have a write-in vote? 

[jjordan]

   ...is there the potential for future regulatory relief induced reductions...

What exactly do you mean by this? Are you thinking that the NRC is going to decrease the amont of required RP oversite? Not hardly! Everytime we have an event, ie: Davis Besse, regulatory oversite is increased, not decreased. The utilities are still trying to reduce are numbers though, also decreased PM's and surveilences for maintenence. There will come a time when the NRC says stop, you need to do more not less! Maybe you were reffering to the implementation of the new CFR limiting hours worked by safety related individuals. This will impact us a little, but not as much as it will Ops. We currently work massive amounts of overtime. the NRC is going to lower the caps that we currently have. it will apply to when a site is operating, and not so much as when in outage. But it'll all depend on the knee jerk reactions of each utility. We'll know better soon, it's comming soon to a nuke near you!
JJ

[jjordan]

Columbia also hires temps directly, but only during non-outage times.  Apparently they can't build up as deep of resume base as Diablo, because they still use a contract company during outages.

Bet ya'll didn't know that Progress can do this too. All of the ex House techs come in directly for Progress, bypassing Bartlett. I didn't know about this, and also don't know how it affects the pay structure, ie: hourly rate, per diem, hospitalization, pension, 401K, etc. I wil find out ASAP, and let you all know. This is how Progress also hires at CR3, but they still use Bartlett for HP's and a few permenant "core" deconners.
JJ

[jjordan]

Ohhh MY My, and the gap widens! All of you guests that are viewing this, need to get off your A__es and register to put in your 2 cents worth! For or against, it doesn't matter. Remember this is one of the most important issues that will impact you for the rest of your carreer. Some of you may think that only the techs view and comment here, but everyone in the world is watching and may formulate some directions as to what all is posted here. Thanks again Mike!
JJ

PS, JJ's two cents worth: I can't believe that a majority of you are satisfied with being treated as second class (or worse), working for substandard wages, low perdiem, inadequte or non existant health care( increasing rates), lousy or non existant 401K, no representation. Remember if you choose to be on your own, you will really be on your own. Don't whine to any house tech about ANYTHING! We can't help you, only you can help you!!

[biloxoi blues]

Why should the companies get money if the plant wants the tech as a temporary?

[jjordan]

I take offence to that comment.  Maybe that is how you are treated, but once again you do not speak for me in any way.

SGT, sorry I made a typo, but I fixed it. It should read "JJ's two cents worth" I'm glad you take offense to that, as well you should! You get treated differently than do house techs, and utility shared resources. Not by me, but by both of our employers, the utility. I have heard it said that "a lot of the contractors aren't as profficent as their utility counterparts". Now if you are precieved to be substandard, and are treated differently, wouldn't that justify my statement of second class, or worse? I treat all of the contractors under my direction with the dignity and respect that they deserve. I never assign them a task that I wouldn't do myself, in fact I take all of the nasty jobs myself, because I still remember what it was like to be dumped on by the utility, and some contract Sr HP's when I was a Jr. Unfortunately I do speak for you indirectly. If the union is voted in, then the majority rules, you don't have to participate or pay dues. But if a contract is signed it affects everybody, and if you have issues (and you and others like you wil!)the union still deffends you. If you choose to not participate, and you've made it crystal clear that you won't. When the contract is being drafted and negotiated, you won't have any say in the matter, like you do here, so let it all out, and let me have both barrels. I made a choice a little while ago to take one for the "TEAM" and I've stepped to the forefront, and am doing just that. As a result, I'm being treated far worse than you can even imagine. Now i'm taking more than "one" by stepping up here, and have absolutely nothing to gain.I don't hide, and never have. I use my real name here, and have crossed paths with a good percentage of the members. I don't understand the personal attacks, I'm just the messanger, and am only looking out for everyones best interests, yes even yours. If you don't want to play, I respect that. But the system being what it is, you are affected, like it or not.
Respectfully Yours,
JJ   

[jjordan]

Why should the companies get money if the plant wants the tech as a temporary?

bb Clarify this. Do you mean , Why do we have a middle man, ie Bartlett, Atlantic, ect? A lot of this stems from legalities. The contract company provides another layer of security when things go wrong.
JJ

[biloxoi blues]

Well I guess its good to have lots of security(more money would be better).  Yeah I was kinda getting at why have the middle man.  I know there are a lot of techs who call the plants or other house techs ( I would never do that)instead of going through the companies.  We had one of those chiefs that stated that they will try to stop that.  We all laughed and rolled our eyes.

[jjordan]

Well I guess its good to have lots of security(more money would be better).  Yeah I was kinda getting at why have the middle man.  I know there are a lot of techs who call the plants or other house techs ( I would never do that)instead of going through the companies.  We had one of those chiefs that stated that they will try to stop that.  We all laughed and rolled our eyes.

Some things will never change, with or without a union. I understand why some call though. Anyone ever hear "We sent your resume, we just haven't heard back yet" To find out the utility never saw you resume?