Rent a tech Union debate

[SloGlo]

walt harris..... in case yer missing a point of the discussion, there has been plenty of people saying that last time (90s) the organization sucked, that the strike should have been done last and not first, yadda yadda yadda.   so saying it didn't work then 'n won't work now is kinda..... how shood eye say dis.... baby boomer logic.  how's about us dinosaurs try showing sum light 'n letting gen x-ers, y-ers (or millenials, eye git lost in terminologee) do the things that can be done.  we screwed up alot.  1500 wuz jist won more thing.   butt advice on proceeding shud be cast in a positive light.  imho, uv coors.

[Brett LaVigne]

   ...so, in conclusion, there are roughly one thousand contract commercial power outage rp technicians...

 

Is this number for real?  I guess that would be about right.  I guess I have been pretty clear on my thoughts about the union not being the answer in my opinion, but even if we all agreed that it was the answer, why would a large union organization like the IBEW give two hoots about a little group like us?  If we were part of a larger organization like IBEW wouldn't we have to have their blessings to actually take action if it came down to it?  As small of a group as this is I wouldn't bank on them providing the support that it might take.  To be an effective bargining unit it would almost have to be the international brotherhood of HP's as a seperate entity all together.  Then we are back to the boycott thing as a beginning.

Honest to goodness, I wouldn't lie to my small family of HP's.  I have seen the Teamsters come in and get a small group of people fired up enough to join, start paying dues and then get no support what so ever.
Wages didn't go up, benefits didn't get any better.  All it did was make managers jobs get easier and the workers realize that they didn't have it all that bad to begin with.

Does anyone really think that by joining a union our wages are going to go up $10 bucks/hour and all of us get retirement packages and great health care?  Some of that might come true to a certain degree but not like most would think, and there would be a price for these things, a larger price than you may think.

Imagine that you are now part of a unionized HP group.  You want to go to STP in the spring because that is a close plant to your home and you like to work there.  You have always done a good job for them in the past and they have always invited you to come back because you don't miss work and take pride in what you do.  You go down to your local union hall to sign "the book".  You later find out that you have to go to Bubba Joes nuclear plant in BF Egypt because Sluggo the laziest HP on the planet has a couple more years seniority than you.

I think that any system that rewards people based solely on time and not merit absolutely sucks.  That is what the union does.

I have worked for Bartlett on and off since 1992, before that it was ARC, before that it was Newport News Shipbuilding.  In all that time I have never had an experience with Bartlett that made me think, Man...we need to get unionized so I can stop getting screwed.  There has always been one thing that held true for me.  I put in an honest day every day (ok, most days), I follow the rules and do my very best to protect the people that I am paid to protect at work and I try to leave every site with an invitation to come back if I choose to.  Bartlett has been very good to send me to the places that I want to work and has never made me go to a place that I didn't want to go to.  I want to keep it that way.

In 1993 I bought a new Corvette, I was 22 years old!  What ever distance there is between me and being a millionaire at 37 is my own fault.  I see 50 year old techs that live paycheck to paycheck and they are usually the ones that complain that we don't make enough money and should organize.  I have friends with normal jobs making $45K/year and support a family, live in a nicer than average home, drive new cars and save money like mad.  Must have been the union that made them that way...

[jjordan]

Whoa here we go again! Fingers don't fail me now!

I think someone once said something to the effect that "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it"!


Uh, yes.

Now, I can agree 100% here.

Walt

We haven't forgotten Walt. I remember it a s clear as  a 51 year old can. Let me ask you about the walkout at VCS. How many days did it last? I think it was about 1, but I could be mistaken. Do you think you really shook up any of the utilities with that? Even if it lasted a week. We're talking about corporations that do BILLIONS of business anually. You guys really scared the piss out of them. I bet all of the CEO's retreated to their closets and started sucking their thumbs in the fetal position.

Uh, the Topic says this is a debate. That usually means the possibility of more than one viewpoint! Maybe someone should start a topic for "Pro-Union Discussion Only - Please"!

[/Post away Walt, you have valid concerns and issues, and I'd like to disscus them.
1000 techs, I don't really know. We at BNP are staffing in 72 this outage, and we are a dual unit boiler. I don't know how many other outages will compete, but our techs leave for RNP, or St. Lucie, and then try for one more before it's the summer off. I hate to do this but Eric would be able to provide you with an accurate number. 1000, 800, 3500, what's the difference? the IBEW believes that evryone has a right to a contract,. Thoose numbers are not piddily, they often organize small shops with only a few employees. You aren't going to be able to do this yourselves, you need a strong organization beside you. They don't tell you what to do. They advise you. They draw on past experience to assist you, and try to keep you from making some of the mistakes others before you have made (1500) You are in controll of your own destiny, as long as you operate within the guidlines of your constitution, that you agree to follow, when you join. I've been amazed at the amount of support we are receiving at BNP. Just for the record our number of eligible voters is somewhere around 320, give or take due to the daily attrition and hirings.

Imagine that you are now part of a unionized HP group.  You want to go to STP in the spring because that is a close plant to your home and you like to work there.  You have always done a good job for them in the past and they have always invited you to come back because you don't miss work and take pride in what you do.  You go down to your local union hall to sign "the book".  You later find out that you have to go to Bubba Joes nuclear plant in BF Egypt because Sluggo the laziest HP on the planet has a couple more years seniority than you.

I think that any system that rewards people based solely on time and not merit absolutely sucks.  That is what the union does.

I don't know where this kind of info comes from, but the union doesn't reward you for seniority. In fact if you choose to not take senority into account when you draw up your contract, you don't have to! It's your contract word it exactly like you want it to be. When I worked as a union construction worker, I worked for a small masonary contractor. He had all of his regular employees, I never had to go to the hall and sign a list to work for him. If he got a big job and needed extra bodies, he called the hall. They provided him with bodies of the refferal list. If work got real bad for him, and it did from time to time. i had the right to go to the hall and sign said list. When you signed, your name was at the bottom, and moved up as people went to work and were removed from the list. You had the right to decline one job without loosing your position on the list. If you turned down 2 jobs, back to the bottom, and wait your turn again. Some exceptions to the rules. Whe a contractor staffed a job from the hall: the contractors first man, usually was a regular employee, became Foreman? General Foreman. Second man was the Shop Steward, the union placed this person. They expected this person to attend the montly meetings and give a stewards report, so they picked people that regularly attended meetings. that was me, I never missed any. Other exceptions were, special quals. If any were required, they went down the list to the first one that had them, he went to work. i took every traing class that the hall offered for free! Thousands of dollars anually. They also paid my wages, gas, and fed me while I was training. Pretty good deal if you're unemployed. I spent very little ti ;)me on that list, and other less enterprising individuals couldn't get off. They hated me and couldn't take the time to do the same things that were offered to them also. STP could offer their returnees first crack just like they do know, and if they can't staff. Go to soome sort of refferal list, It doesn't have to be like this but it could if thats what you want. There are other ways also. Use your imagination.
$10.00/hr Probably not at first, but you got to start somewhere. Be realistic though. Most of my concerns aren't financial, but remember JJ's rule #1! I want a few things that won't cost much if anything. Most importantly, due process.

Keep em comming,
JJ

[biloxoi blues]

Does Bartlett or the Atlantic group base their pay on experience or merit?  There is no way radbastard should get the same amount of money as me. (thats an attempt at a joke)  Cant we least get NShift differential without having a union?  Go Gators

[Walt Harris]

Whoa here we go again! Fingers don't fail me now! We haven't forgotten Walt. I remember it a s clear as  a 51 year old can. Let me ask you about the walkout at VCS. How many days did it last? I think it was about 1, but I could be mistaken. Do you think you really shook up any of the utilities with that? Even if it lasted a week. We're talking about corporations that do BILLIONS of business anually. You guys really scared the piss out of them. I bet all of the CEO's retreated to their closets and started sucking their thumbs in the fetal position.

Well, it didn't even last a day for some of the big talkers. I had a two month old baby at home, and like a dim-wit I stood outside the gate till the fat lady had sung and gone home, while several of the most vocal/outspoken comrades weenied-out the first day. I could name names, but one "kidd", had basically threatened a female tech at Catawba to the point of tears regarding crossing the line at VCS. I'm not sure he lasted a day on the line. That's the things I can't forget. I quietly commited, and followed through to the end and went home. I had nothing but respect for the technicians that never made a commitment in the first place.

That is my point though, there are a lot of folks who will get fired-up talking about what they will do, but you won't know until it's time to put-up or shut-up! Sort-of like the old 3-Stooges routine where the Sergent asks for volunteers, and everyone puts their foot out .... then steps backward ...leaving the stooges alone.

That's why, I would never commit again. Burned once, shame on you, .......       

Nothing baby-boomer bout it. In Sloglo's OWN WORDS (sorta) "there are plenty of people saying it sucked"!!!

Wow! Revelation! How soon some forget!

Look around the break-room next outage. There is hardly a per-diem check being used for per-diem! They are going for house payments, car/truck payments, boat/motorcycle payments, etc.... Talk is big, and everyone gets fired-up and says they won't give in, but walking the walk is something else.

I've read many of your posts over the years JJ, and I believe that your intentions and heart are with the roadies, but I don't think you can get a majority to agree on where to order the pizza, much less make a serious run on a union vote.

Proud Baby Boomer,
Walt

[jjordan]

Walt,
I hear you brother, I'm proud of you, and belive me I understand. I also know what I'm up against. Anything worth having, doesn't come easy. The more precious things are the toughest!
JJ

[Walt Harris]

O.K. Sloglo, I'll take my "negativity", my soapbox, and go back into the background for a while. I can't remember the last time I posted here on the site, but I stop by a couple of times a week to see what's going on. This topic just still hits a raw nerve with me.

Sure, I would like to make more money, .... and just this week we were sitting around the lunch table griping cause the medical coverage went up another $15/month ...... but if you ever need a reality check ... every once and a while, take 25 years of nuke experience, an NRRPT certificate, and go job hunting outside the "biz". It will help you appreciate what you get now a little more! 

Again best of luck to you all! Just be careful whatever it is you do on this subject! Didn't mean to offend anyone ..... Keep pluggin' JJ (Someday I want to try some of that "famous" ice cream.)

Walt

[alphadude]

SloGo  tru nuff ANSI is time but an RCT with out the time cant work ANSI, and ANSI without CORE or NRRPT cant work RCT, but for the demand number only ANSI techs are counted because thats whut kin werk power plants. And when you have the demand met with a constant supply things stay somewhat static. (1000 techs and around 800 temp jobs a year= demand met)

[Tina]

  All I know is that I spent 8.5 years working in a union at an NRC facilty and finally after never hearing from them only at reneg contract time where they finaily neg me out of $700.00 a year less while charging me more for union dues and no overtime to make up for the loss I'm not so sure unionizing is the way to go these days. Besides when you look at differences of places like INL and Oak Ridge and the big difference between NRC and DOE and you expext a tech to use union representation thats an awfuly big mountain to climb. I feel we as traveling techs have enough battles just neg contracts with companies for per diem and pay rates I dont want to pay out on union dues for there help in setting me back so they can get theirs while I'm not getting mine. I've seen a lot of good techs out here since I became one and I've met all types of people in this business. Don't kid yourself if you think for one moment that as a NRC powerhouse tech trying to hold out in a neg battle that some DOE tech wont go to work in their place and vise vers a ... Sad but true    we as techs compeat all the time for employment positions as it is    its the nature of the system we have but, as it stands we dont pay our money out to a union for the pleasure of it all  I hope I dont come off as sounding like a union basher because in its day the union laid the ground work for our employment today. A lot of good people lost their lives for the union fight and our rights we enjoy here and now.  But times have changed and so has the american way when it comes to employment. We as americans deal with a lot more then just respresntation of a tech and a energy company. Our labor is being out soursed to other countries. Doe and NRC are so far apart when it comes to employment as a tech. I dont feel a union could do me any better then if I saved my money and represented myself. When you look at the distance there is for new techs when it comes to firewatch, deconers, jr techs, sr techs, and the battles for positions of employment its tough out there. We dont need a union rep to tell us were not qualified there are plenty enough in the pecking order as it is. I find it upsetting when I see someone who comes in with RCT training and certification and the dedication of becoming an good RCT only to be honored with the position of megar firewatch or deconor. When a tech applies for a positoin as a Jr RCT and gets told well you dont have enough experience do you realy think a union rep with make a difference. I've seen Sr. RCT & Jr Tech go fall asleep behind a pipe or in a swivel office chair and have no problem taking their checks to the bank. This is the reality of things like working at a site only to having them add to the tech population more techs that are being paid a better per diem and/or wage and the exsisting techs having to train them with no more pay insentive. Now a lot of techs will say well thats their falt for not being able to neg better for themselves but in all honesty is it really. I really dont see how a union would help all that much when it comes to these issues. and if a union is brought in where will the money for my dues come from should I neg it in my next job offer to get the company to pay for it or am I suppose to eat it for all the help they will be when I need them. I've seen unions sell out in companies such as Catapilar, Firestone, and others. I come from Illinois where some of the lastest union battles have occured and I've seen and personally know of the losses of retirement pensions be ate up by medicial insurance dues because of union representation. When they take its from the employee not the companies so not only do you lose to the comapny but you pay the union for it. I'm sorry but the way it is right now I work for me to do with as I see fit. If I lose then its my falt for beings ignorent. But I can use my losses as a learning expeirence with a price then so be it. I dont need to pay the union in a employment field they cant control and probably wont understand. 

[cairnit]

Just out of couriosity fellas, where would we work?

The last time we struck (90) a lot of companies that had nothing to do with our jobs all of a sudden "signed the Union agreement". They saw an opportunity to get themselves into another field besides the one they were in at the time. I never heard of any of them actually "GETTING" a contract for RPs.

The plants already have contracts in place that are negotiated for a certain price and those last for roughly 5 years each.


So if the contracts are in place with non-union shops and the techs unionize and you can only work Union. Where are the jobs you are supposed to work?

It seems then that you are forced to work non-union and break the Union agreement in order to pay the bills and feed the family.

Oh and of course, the is the little matter of the Union then coming after your butt with fines for breaking the aggreement and working as a "SCAB" those fines can run in the thousands!

So it seems to me, if we join the Uninon we are commmiting to being out of work until Union contract go in at the palnts and I would think that the contract currently in place would have to expre first.

And yes, I was on the line for 8 days up at Fitz. My ex-husband and I were 2 of the 3 JUNIORS that walked. Everyone had a job to go back into though, EXCEPT the Juniors.

[alphadude]

this topic is like the weather- a lot of complaints but no one does anything about it.. (sorry mark twain i couldnt resist)

[SloGlo]

let me tri 'n git my head around sum of these points;

sr, experienced hptechs are a very good thing for a plant to staff sew they pay good money for them.

jr, raw hptechs are easily used for nickel/dime jobs 'n sew don't get paid much, but shood put in there time to make sr 'n git the big bux.

it takes ~9 years to grow a sr hptech.

sr hptechs shood continue education, git degrees, go into management 'n leave the lesser paychecks behind.

duz ennnybuddy else see a problem with the math of <1000 techs, 800 jobs, edukated attrition for more money in a 9 year time frame?   duz a degree really garrentee a good job?  kin alla hptechs (jr & sr) wit degrees raise there hand?  i thought sew.

[jjordan]

Are any of you currently in a CBOP program? What are you all smoking? I'm amazed at all of the missimformation here. i don't know if you've heard this so much you're starting to believe it?
Tina: What do you mean by an NRC facility? I think you mean a comercial nuclear power plant. DOE and a DOD sites would be handled by individula contracts since they tend to be longer term, but not always.What kind of union did you belong to? You mean to tell me they didn't have a office or a union hall you could go to, and ask questions, and seek answers? In 8.5 years you should have been able to overturn the officers at least twice if not 3 times, and voted on as many contracts. Do you hold out and negotiate you wages seperate from the rest of the workers? If you do, then I've got to meet you, you're awsome. The contract company will rarely pay anyone any extra, because it cuts into their profit, and if word were to get out. It would be sheer Chaos. I guess nobody compeats for jobs out in the real world, just in the nukes. Get real! We're all animals, and it's a jungle out there. It's suvival of the fittest. If your not getting the jobs you want, try getting out of the break trailer every once in a while. If that doesn't work, make yourself more attractive. Learn a specialty or 2. Take the NRRPT, I did all of that, and still think you need a union. I worked almost wherever I wanted, and most of the year except maybe 2 months in the summer. American labor is being outsourced, but not nuclear. The plants are here and so is the work.Union reps that you should be electing, don't set the quals. Utilities do, usually based on the ANSI standard, wich is based on time spent in your proffession. Currently you are sujected to a great deal of favoritisim, which is great if you're the choosen one. I doubt that that happens much unless you're really pretty, and really good! I've never heard of a company paying more to a new hire, than the people that have to train them. Where do I sign up? We currently need to train more techs. This needs to be closely controlled though, a glut of techs would lower wages, and reduce amount of work / person. The union can provide training funded by you dues. Dues would come out of your pocet, and at most utilities are in the $20- $40/ month range. There are different levels of participation though, your option also. The more expensive would provide a small pension, hence the increased cost. There are other perks associated with it also.Dues cover operating expenses, legal representation, training, welfare, ect. It's a small price for all that you can receive. Unions don't sell out, corrupt officials do.there are rules in place to help minimize this, members need to keep a constant vigilance on their officials and contract. Pensions don't get ate up. they are closely regulated because of prior abuses by companies and corrupt officials, The union doesn't undewrite health care, they offer providers that do, sometimes several chioces. They don't set the premiums, the insurannce companies do that themselves. You is the first letter in union, if you don't understand the field you're in shame on you. Control the workplace, nobody does. The union is a stabilizing force though.

cairnit,
You didn't strike in 90, you just laid out  for almost a day. at some places. You've probeby faked being sick for a longer period. You just didn't do it with all of your buds! What companies signed what agreement, there wasn't and isn't an agreement to this day. There will be one sometime, lots of people want one they just aren't posting, read the stats for this thread. Why do you think it is getting so much attention? It aint for my writing skills. Yes their are contracts in place, they last from 3 to 5 years whatever is stipulated. Ifd acontract is in place, then it's a union shop, not non union. If the techs form a union, the utilities can sign an agreement with them, wether or not  there is a contract in place for us house mice.If thay won't, then the union techs shouldn't work there. If only the non union show up, they'll have a real tough time, and may reconsider. That was the purpose of the walkout in 90, but it was ill conceived. If all the other sites are staffed with good techs, larger pool because of the non union not participating. Completing there outages on time, and some are not. How soon do you think the shareholders will react. If you sign an agreement and then break it, what do you think we sould do with you? We are the union, your brothers and sisters. You promised us you would stand beside us. You lied! What should we do? What does the company do if you break an agreement or rule? real good chance you're looking for work. The can fine you and worse too if they'd like. Again send me a copy of the contract in place, I'll post it right here. I admire you for staying out for the 8 days, and am sorry that you were lied too. I'll never do that. A union would've gotten the Jr's jobs back too! Folks don't take this as a personal assult, it's not. There is just a lot of bad information here. If I post some real facts on a different thread and call it union shop 101, would you all take the time to read and learn. Lots of this is publised by the government. There are links on  www.pgnunion.com  to a lot of educational info that a lot of you need to read.
Thanks,
JJ

[biloxoi blues]

My hand is raised,  but it doesnt matter very much in the traveling field.  Ive seen resumes with Nuclear engineer and radiation specialist on them.  Looked to see where they graduated from and  all it stated was that they attended college.  If one has the gift of gab its easy to succeed in this business.  Networking is probably the most important skill to have when your a traveling tech.  Now I will go back to smoking.   Go Gators

[alphadude]

slo go is in management  and so am I, so it is observation from outside the fish bowl- but objectively the union grass roots are not among the rent a techs- the craft didnt come from labor (technical specialist) and like i said two years back its not gonna happen soon.

so lets discuss something important like Mary Kate and Ashleys failure in the goth clothing line-

[Brett LaVigne]

Quote from Marlin: "Mary Kay and Paris Hilton posts are not helpful but do not warrant deletion as SloGlo's comments are not edited or condemned."

Fine, gone...  By all means, carry on with your debate.

[Marlin]

Your not the only one Walt.  SloGlo doesn't want an open discussion.  Look at several of his post.I would rather try and talk to the wall.

SloGlo has a right to his opinion, I don't think it is a problem. This thread is up to seven pages in a short period of time clearly showing an interest on both sides of the issue. I believe that SloGlo has a problem with "Nay Sayers", a common issue if you are in management. This is an open forum and this has not inhibited the exchange of ideas. I have stopped posting on this thread so as to try and be an unbiased moderator, but I intend to watch it closely. Mary Kay and Paris Hilton posts are not helpful but do not warrant deletion as SloGlo's comments are not edited or condemned.

[Shawnee Man]

Why not take a poll for those who want a union and would sign an intent card versus those who do not want a union. Simple. Agree to disagree! May be even add a link to those who want to contact a union representative. Anything I missed?

[wlrun3@aol.com]

slo go is in management  and so am I, so it is observation from outside the fish bowl- but objectively the union grass roots are not among the rent a techs- the craft didnt come from labor (technical specialist) and like i said two years back its not gonna happen soon.

so lets discuss something important like Mary Kate and Ashleys failure in the goth clothing line-

   ...from a management perspective, what will the outage contract rp environment look like in the next ten years...

[alphadude]

stable and well planned with RCTs coming over to the dark side. (utilities) the most current major event is the SGR projects on the books.  this work demands previously experienced (not usually in the technician arena) project specialist. with D&D on the downhill, personnel from this area will fill the niches of needed Steam Gen personnel. this milestone in nuke is ramping up now. (10 or more planned by Bechtel alone)

major milestones in nuke worker demand
hangers and anchor bolts
core barrel
reactor coolant pumps
head replacements
TMI mods
Apdx R mods
Steam Gen replacement
Re-rack
IFSI

[Tina]

  Hey JJordan

No offence taken but, in responce: I have trained site proceedures to new arriving rcts that made more per diem and proabley a better wage then myself. When this occured the whole crew walked out the building until the RPOC came out and calmed our futhers. At which time he promtly told us to call our companies with the complaints. Needless to say we all called our different companies and even the techs that were already on the site from the same company that the new arrivels were from were'nt being paid the same per diem and complained. We all got told that the so called "New Arrivels" were contracted as short term (hence there high pay)and would be the first to exit the project. Although we were all hired as tempory made no difference and this went on until the end of the project. And to add salt to the wounds we were not given a pay differental for working a second shift that would come and go like the wind as the higherarky saw fit. As for neg a contract with a company for pay scale I have seen techs paid at a range from $18 dollars and hour up to $28 per hour and I myself have never been paid the same rate on any two jobs I've worked. Hell I've worked for as low as $18 per hour and as high as $35 per hour. All that without a union representation thank you very much. As for past union experience, the union I was a member of for 8.5 years was a rather large one. It represents all the hospitols and medicle services. As well as security companies. There were 8 different rog sites with our power company so we didnt have a union hall. But we did manage to send our second atempt at a great union stewart to the yearly union rally held in sunny San Fransisco where he got to hear the hooha of Al Core's voter recuriting rederek. Only to come back union thumping and costing me personaly $700.00 lost per year in income and rasing my dues for the pleasure of being a union member. Oh by the way he went on to take a company position as most union stewarts do. That was the big motivation for me to become a traveling tech. As for your idea that unions can't cost employees their retirement, try telling that to the hundreds of catapilliar retired employees. First the union agreed with the company to hire young kids from the community and call them SEC's and pay them $10 to $15 dollars per hour wage while severecing the Ole Timers to leave. So as the "Ole Timers" who stood on picket lines from time to time during their 30 years of service for a wage of $24 to $30 per hour went for nothing. But you had what you always get. Young unexperienced in union and /or employee affairs, I'll work and vote for anything types (SEC's). Then when the vote came up for the company to stop paying their percentage on insurance (the companies claim higher insurance costs hurting them) and pushing it back on the employees the retirees got socked with having to take their retirment money (living expence) and fund their medicle insurance which was totally unexpected to them during their past 30 year stent of a wounderful working relationship with their wounderful company. A employee spends their 30 years working for the same company expecting to take their well earned retirement and go off into the sunset to live the life of a rasin in the sun. Not to have a company or corperation taking from their pence. By the way the same year the comany did this they claimed to have made the most profits for its fiscle year. Gee where was the union in this case. Im sure it all came down to the votes right.  As it stands now I work for myself , yea a company and me reach an agreement. They give me the job,, I work it and take my money to the bank. If I want to go to a power outage after I finish up a Marssim project I can and I dont have to go through a union neg to do so. I feel we as rct's are segragated enough by not all sites accepting our DOE Core Certifications and not all sites requiring NEU testing proceedure and those with the claim that people taking the NRRPT without putting the required time in making it non ligament in some peoples eyes. We need the fact that between DOE/NRC/D & D and all others such as Deconers/Sr & JR RCTs/Marssims/Firewatch/ Check point personel / just to mention a few: the fact that they even have hurtels/or hoops to jump when trying to stay employed. We damm sure dont need an added expense just to be able to work. We have gas prices if we want finacial torture and aggravation. Thanks for listening. 

[Marlin]

Quote from Marlin: "Mary Kay and Paris Hilton posts are not helpful but do not warrant deletion as SloGlo's comments are not edited or condemned."

Fine, gone...  By all means, carry on with your debate.

Thanx self moderation is the best moderation.

[alphadude]

No offence taken but, in responce: I have trained site proceedures to new arriving rcts that made more per diem and proabley a better wage then myself. When this occured the whole crew walked out the building until the RPOC came out and calmed our futhers.

You should have been fired for discussing information that may cause your company harm. (salaries and perdiem rates are consider proprietary information that may be used for bidding purposes)

What ever happened to self responsibility? If you agree to take the pay and perdiem, and the conditions- YOU AGREED- which use to mean "I am being responsible for my destiny by agreeing to something." I accepted what you offered me.

Remember you agreed to this, you accepted the outcome. You accepted the terms of employment. Don't blame the union for the outcome on something you agreed too.

Would you call your bank and complain about a loan when the interest rates drops and yours dont because of the agreement you agreed to? No, you look else where and then move on. No one will hold that against you.


Oh by the way retirement funds maintained by the companies are not protected. If the company goes under so does your retirment in some cases.

[Tina]

   alphdude

first I think your confused and need to scroll back to my prior posting on this subject.... I was responding to JJourdan's post as for your opion...

I am well aware of my self responsability as you would have known had you bother to read my previous posting on this subject....

and as for the idea of " Oh by the way retirement funds maintained by the companies are not protected. If the company goes under so does your retirment in some cases."

I realize that but I was trying to show how the company uses unions to manipulate employees....

I am not anti union but as it stands now I feel we dont need the added segragation... I can find no bennefit in having a union in place... we already have some great health insurance and benefits being offered by the current companies not to say all of them but they do try to fallow suite to our benefit. And all I see a union doing is making money on our dues and making it harder for us to get work....

and as for the idea of .....

You should have been fired for discussing information that may cause your company harm. (salaries and perdiem rates are consider proprietary information that may be used for bidding purposes)

Those new arriving techs were the ones who came in and spilled the beans on the pay differents and not all of the residing techs were from the same company anyway....
but as I stated before some of the residing techs were from the same company and still be paid differently....

we as techs disscuss company pay practise a lot regardless of what you think only we are all not so bold as to go into another site and start havoc with spuing facts of pay diferentals...
but we offer insight into how are company compares to others.... if a tech hears one company pays better or offers better bennies then thats where he goes the next time when appling for work ....its the american way.... 

[SloGlo]

slo go is in management  and so am I,

eye yam?  sumbeech!  dang, duz dis mean eye git a raise?  or are yinz trying to phil better?  jist kidding, alphadude, chill....'k?

re: alla posts bout me knot wanting open discussion.... rong!  i do, but i gits sew tarred of alla old crap recycled over 'n over again.  i don't think that ennybuddy ina nuke power plant biz duzant know that 1500 was a freeking raw busted deal.  ona udder hand, no buddy outside of nukes has ever herd of i.b.e.w. local 1500.  i've won lotsa money wagering with i.b.e.w. members ('n udder union members too, i try to fleece equally) about a national local union.  never lost yet, some times it takes a little longer than others to get paid.  but, i do appreciated information that may be considered anti-union such as that tina is posting.  those posts are fairly factual, at least based on my knowledge of some of her subject matter such as the caterpillar incidents.  some other posts i read 'n don't know about so i either file for future reference or go google.  but i don't discourage them.

re: different pay rates..... duh!  that's been going on as long as there have been rent a techs ^©   'n staff augmentation companies.  iffen ya got 4 companies ona site, ya probably got 5 different pay rates going for the same level of tech while they're working side by side (sorta gives a mental cluster pic now duzant it?) 'n diem has historically bin different too.  i remember when uncle brucie usta always pay more'n the udder contractors on a site, because he wood knot bid the prime contract but always won a backup.  but that is the nature of the biz.  as long as everyone is negotiating their own way, it will always be that way.  if a group would band together and negotiate as one, then they all make the same.  as wuz done by the co-op in da 70s, see page one of this thread.

'n last butt knot leest.... iffen ya'd rather go talk to a wall, ya'd probably apreesheate what yinz wood here more.  butt, dat's only my humbull opinun.