Rent a tech Union debate

[jjordan]

ok so the 2007 mileage rate for business travel ( i.e traveling from home to site x or y) then why are companies A,B, or C only paying about 2/3 of the federal rate ? and not paying folks 1 day of per diem for their day of travel to site, which should also include 8 hours of pay for the travel day.

Why? Because they can get away with it. i was never paid to drive. I drove to STP twice, and San Onofre once. You can't do that in 2 days if you tried. I've been out of the loop for a while, but I think it's still the same. They will pay a token amount per mile, and then put a cap on it. So no matter how far you travel, you only get so much money. Per Diem? Forget it, better chance of seeing Elvis. This is acceptable to all of the techs, because it's always been this way, so why change now?
JJ

[Already Gone]

SONGS paid the whole mileage both ways the two times I went there, but the rate was somewhat lower than the federal.
Other sites have capped at 400 miles, $250, or paid one flat rate to everyone for travel.  Some pay only for travel in.
As a contract RP/HP I NEVER got paid per diem for a travel day, in or out.  In fact, I have been given a layoff on Monday morning following a night shift and not gotten per diem for Monday.  Even better - it was Memorial Day and I got no holiday pay because it was Sunday's shift.

[jjordan]

SONGS paid the whole mileage both ways the two times I went there, but the rate was somewhat lower than the federal.
Other sites have capped at 400 miles, $250, or paid one flat rate to everyone for travel.  Some pay only for travel in.
As a contract RP/HP I NEVER got paid per diem for a travel day, in or out.  In fact, I have been given a layoff on Monday morning following a night shift and not gotten per diem for Monday.  Even better - it was Memorial Day and I got no holiday pay because it was Sunday's shift.

When I went to SONGS, they only paid in! It was a good rate, better than most, but still not the Federal max. I pulled my 5th wheel, and was doing fine until I got through Texas. It was uphill all the way to California. you could hear my truck drinking gas. I had to work my way back across the states, cause i didn't have enough money for gas. When I worked SONGS, they forced me on backshift, and sent me home early, and brought me in late to save a dime. I never even got close to a 60 hr pay. I left after the first outage, told them I didn't drive 3500 miles to work part time.Was told I'd never work in the industry again! I'm still thinking you need a contract to prevent this from happening to you!
JJ

[craps7]

Yeah everytime I went to SONGS one way travel pay in.  You have to schedule another outage that doesnt have a cap right after SONGS to get travel pay from them. They had another rule if you werent there so many days you would get travel pay out.  Also 11.5 for 12 hours.

[jjordan]

Well lets look at the positives. The state of California got you time and a half for all hours over 8 in a day. The negative would be , that's only in CA, all the other states, you need 40 hrs before that kicks in. Any time you miss is all premium time. ALL of it. You need a union.
JJ

[Chimera]

Once upon a time, back in "the day" (yeah, I'm one of them old-timers), we would get paid travel pay to and from the job plus one day of perdiem and 8 hours of time for every 500 hundred miles (or fraction thereof) when reporting to or leaving a site.  I guess too many people screwed with the companies back then as this policy slowly evaporated over the years.

I can't really complain about the travel pay rates or policies today.  They seem to be adequate (for my needs anyway).  However, it would be nice to have everything standardized (expecially if it was to my benefit).

Do we have a sample contract yet (with a prospective union to represent it)?  All this talk is nice, but I haven't seen anything upon which to base an informed opinion.  I need something concrete to overcome the biases of my youth.

[Brett LaVigne]

SONGS  as of fall 2006.
$23/hour, $100/day, Full travel in and out @ fed.rate. $1/hour bonus.

11.5 for 12, overtime after 8.  Way too little pay and perdiem for that area so I will choose not to go back if at all possible until that scenario changes...I have that choice.  Shame, I really enjoy working that plant, but I enjoy saving $ for the family time way more!

Hotel in San Clemente: $385/week including taxes, decent place and close to work.

[jjordan]

SONGS  as of fall 2006.
$23/hour, $100/day, Full travel in and out @ fed.rate. $1/hour bonus.

11.5 for 12, overtime after 8.  Way too little pay and perdiem for that area so I will choose not to go back if at all possible until that scenario changes...I have that choice.  Shame, I really enjoy working that plant, but I enjoy saving $ for the family time way more!

Thanks Bat Man! It's been a while for me.I see some things have changed for the better, but very little. you can get 23/hour anywhere, and $100.00 might get you a stylish carboard box somewhere in the high desert. Don't even think about living near the coast. Lots of sites don't pay you for lunch, because without a contract, they don't have to. When we work 12's we get paid, but don't get real comfortable, because they will interupt you if needed, or work you long past your time. It isn't designated so they can. like I said before, thank the state of California for the time and a half, not Edison. They would do you on that too if they could. like I said in my previous posts, they used to manipulate my time to avoid paying me any premium time, I couldn't afford to live there, so I had to go. I liked working the plant as well, but if you can't make any money, I'll choose to starve to death well rested, Thank You!
JJ

[jjordan]

Once upon a time, back in "the day" (yeah, I'm one of them old-timers), we would get paid travel pay to and from the job plus one day of perdiem and 8 hours of time for every 500 hundred miles (or fraction thereof) when reporting to or leaving a site.  I guess too many people screwed with the companies back then as this policy slowly evaporated over the years.

I can't really complain about the travel pay rates or policies today.  They seem to be adequate (for my needs anyway).  However, it would be nice to have everything standardized (expecially if it was to my benefit).

Do we have a sample contract yet (with a prospective union to represent it)?  All this talk is nice, but I haven't seen anything upon which to base an informed opinion.  I need something concrete to overcome the biases of my youth.

Whew Doggies,
You are old! Bet you even remeber demolition derby with the rental cars! It would be nice to get what your elected officials get, with no tampering, favoritism, or BS. It costs you just as much to live as it does me, or say a Jr or a deconner.( I din't figure in your AARP discounts) I feel your pain, and hopefully a little relief is on the way. As far as sample contracts, we are kind of blazing new trails here. When the organizers came to town, we saw versions of signed house contacts. Lots of them. You know what? They were all different. Like the point I've been trying to drive home. It's what the majority proposes, and vote into place. I'll be meeting with some people in late Feb, and maybe we can put some of our ideas down on paper. But hey i'v got a novel idea. Since it's you union, not mine. Tell me what you would like to see! Then I can take it to them. Some of what they think they can do would be administer the health care. The contractors would pay a set amount for hours worked into a fund, and it would be paid to a health care provider say Blue Cross, maybe others. There would be an economy of numbers. The more participants the cheaper per person. Also you wouldn't have to change providers if you changed employers. You could COBRA for the times when you were utilizing your months of paid vacation (UC) and just pick back up when you returned from the beach! One of the major concerns seems to be who has the preference of hiring for particular sites. I think that the utility should have first preference, and so do most returnees. But what is fair after that? Tell me I'm all ears. What part should senority play? How do you determine who is senior, if you all join the union on the same day? In construction senority never came into play with hiring and layoffs. i know this comes as a shock to many who keep beating a dead horse. I hired who I wanted, and laid off, or fired who I wanted. if you didn't perform you went first. I didn't care if you were the founding father! If I couldn't staff on my own, I went to the union list. This wasn't based on senority either. It was based on when you worked last, and also speacial qualifications. Top man had the right of refusal 1 time. If he hated my guts and didn't want to work for me, he didn't have to (lots of posters here might fit that catagory now), but had to take the second job, or back to the bottom of the list. Exceptions would be made for requests for speacial quals. The first person on the list with the qual, got the call! They also had the right of refusal, and then it goes to the next on the list with the qual. This should inspire people who want to work to take more training and expand their skillset. It also rewards some of us old farts that can do more than watch the exits! (senority) Like i said, if you all have any ideas, post them, I'll present every last one. Even if I personally don't agree with it. It'll be your contract, not mine!
JJ

[vikingfan]

chimera,

GE, Areva,Westinghouse still do those bennies ! travel is paid at your wage for 8 hours for domestic travel plus one day of per diem, and get a rental car. per diem is kinda standardized at 95 a day though. travel is paid at 20 hours for international travel each way.

[SloGlo]

Well lets look at the positives. The state of California got you time and a half for all hours over 8 in a day. The negative would be , that's only in CA, all the other states, you need 40 hrs before that kicks in. Any time you miss is all premium time. ALL of it. You need a union.
JJ

hay!  don't fergit da big kahuna of o.t. bennies in califurna.... 7th day is double time, irregardless of what calendar day it is.  iffen yer 7th in a row is tuesday, ka-ching!

[SloGlo]

SONGS  as of fall 2006.
$23/hour, $100/day, Full travel in and out @ fed.rate. $1/hour bonus.

11.5 for 12, overtime after 8.  Way too little pay and perdiem for that area so I will choose not to go back if at all possible until that scenario changes...I have that choice.  Shame, I really enjoy working that plant, but I enjoy saving $ for the family time way more!

Hotel in San Clemente: $385/week including taxes, decent place and close to work.

is dat $23/hr before or after yer insurance?  retirement?  alla those udder perks i bin reeding about here that contractors are gitting that i nebber did while roading fer da family?

[biloxoi blues]

You forgot the biggest perk of being a road tech is that we dont have to listen to or work for unhappy house techs or management all year round.   

[jjordan]

You forgot the biggest perk of being a road tech is that we dont have to listen to or work for unhappy house techs or management all year round.   

lets face the facts! you like it sooo much you come here to put up with me and my whining. On your spare time no less. Thank you Mike! BB, I'll see you down the road sometime! Take care!
JJ

[Brett LaVigne]

is dat $23/hr before or after yer insurance?  retirement?  alla those udder perks i bin reeding about here that contractors are gitting that i nebber did while roading fer da family?

I have never talked about retirements, insurance or other bene's that I recieve being a road tech.  I don't get them and really don't care.

Vote is still no.  I have taken care of my own future.

[Camella Black]

I used to be pro Union way before even knowing what a rent a tech, much less nuclear power was. I believe that unions still have a place I just don't know if it will do any good for us.

Until the utilities and the companies decide that they really need us and want to buck up and do what they need to do a union won't do us any good in my opinion. Heck who needs a union to tell someone, if you'd plan a little better, or schedule a little better you wouldn't be facing a worker shortage and we wouldn't be facing months without work.

They, the powers that be see the light, they just choose to wear sunglasses and look for quick fixes rather than deal with the problem. Case in point the decision to allow DOE workers full credit for time worked so that that companies could fill empty slots; when we all know that if they sat down with the utilities and really made a decent scheudle we rent a techs could jump from location to location: we did it in the old days and it could still be done. I remember when you left a plant going to the next job it was like the circus packing up and moving on in that we traveled in groups.

I have given up on there ever being a solution as the top two ingriedents don't want one.

[alphadude]

it really can never work that way because of one simple fact- mother nature- she decides when it is warm and when it is cold-thus the peak load seasons. utilities do plan their schedule but its to support the national grid. manpower or tech power is about 50th on the list for reasons to delay an outage- customer demand, market cost, and critical path equipment delays determine when plants come down. Never have I heard that because of tech shortage would there be a delay or consideration of one. When the problem arises, the solution is money, utilities expect to pay about $55 an hour for technical staff and budget for that. So, if there is a shortage, a few dollars on the hour will bring in more techs. 

The reason for the union is standardization.  Makes it very easy to place bids if we could count on a standard rate.  Would save the utility money and would allow cost effective companies a chance in the market.

[cjking5406]

I'm new to this board, so I hope this posting is in the right spot.  I met with JJ out in Vegas and I work for the IBEW as a rep and have since 99.  Prior to that, I worked at FCS as an HP and President of the Local.  Did ten years there after nine as a road tech.

I believe that Unions are an advantage for the workers, admittedly I'm biased by my positions/experience, but they are only as strong as the constituent members want them to be.  I helped negotiate the master agreement that the Utility Techs use to travel workers under the USA (Utility Services Alliance) Agreement.  It does standardize the per diem rates by using the CONUS rates that the Feds approve and the IRS allows as the maiximum unreciepted rates.  It doesn't standardize the pay rates, because in this agreement, most of the workers are already covered under contracts at their home Utilties/Locals.  It did clarify what was used as selection and refusal process for workers, but did not get into the economics since that had already been covered.

I could envision a Contract Tech agreement that covers P.D. by using CONUS rates and has varying pay based on the cost of living in the area of the plant.  Perhaps, based on the negotiated rates of current RP Techs IF the plant is already Union.  It would be a reasonable starting point that is quite defendable based on bargainning history at the plant.  The trick might be in the beni's.  I won't pretend to know what anyone has as their concerns, but I remember when I was on the road, the carrying of Health Insurance during layoffs was one of my major concerns.  (I was much younger then and didn't have any concerns about retirement).  I believe that by bargaining as group, there is a better chance of succeeding at getting some type of bank for insurance that could be available during "non-outage seasons".  Perhaps, it would be possible to include this group under the plan that the IBEW administers.

I don't know what all the questions are, so I certainly don't have the answers.  However, if there are questions I can address, I will try and add to this debate.

CJ King

[biloxoi blues]

lets face the facts! you like it sooo much you come here to put up with me and my whining. On your spare time no less. Thank you Mike! BB, I'll see you down the road sometime! Take care!
JJ

  Yes JJ, but it like working at the plant with ya, I dont pay attention to hardly a thing you say unless you say ice cream time.  Im just kidding of course JJ.  By the way what happen to your groups union?  Take care JJ

[jjordan]

I have never talked about retirements, insurance or other bene's that I recieve being a road tech.  I don't get them and really don't care.

Vote is still no.  I have taken care of my own future.

I respect your no vote Bat Man. I just don't understand the logic. I hope you have invested very well, and are on in years, because the younger you are the more likely it will be, that your nest egg will be hit very hard by health care. One serious illness will set you back major. Like CJ said, when I was traveling, I too was younger, and not as concerned with the future. Health care was my primary concern, even though I was very healthy.When i started, I flipped from company to company, the outages were much longer, and this almost worked, but not quite. Everytime you switched, you had a 6 month grace period where you weren't quite covered. Now you had the option to Cobra for up to 18 months, but it was way expensive, and only worked out if you returned to your previous employer. I finally decided for some stability, I would work steady for Bartlett. This worked out for the best for me. Eventually, they got most of the contracts so I didn't have to drive as far or work an undesireable plant. I still had to Cobra 2 maybe 3 month in the summers sometimes, but i had stability, and I knew I'd go back first thing in the fall. I did care about my future also, so when they offered a 40!K I jumped on it! Unfortuatley so did my ex wife and a few attorneys. You may think you have it all covered, but S__t happens, so having some good health care and a pension, might be a good thing!
JJ

[jjordan]

  Yes JJ, but it like working at the plant with ya, I dont pay attention to hardly a thing you say unless you say ice cream time.  Im just kidding of course JJ.  By the way what happen to your groups union?  Take care JJ

Brunswick organizing comitee is alive and well. Come see us sometime!
JJ

[ramdog_1]

GEE I am non Union I do my talks for cash right now 39 an hour straight time and half for ot and double on sundays.
I get full travel in and out plus I hours pay for evey 50 miles I drive to the site.
last job I got them for 45 and time and half for all ot. plus diem .
but what the heck.
the boss paid me 1500 for sitting in my rv when I got here one week.
Life is good.
plus I have bennys 401 they match and Ins. Not blue cross.
so tell me why I need a union?

[SloGlo]

I could envision a Contract Tech agreement that covers P.D. by using CONUS rates and has varying pay based on the cost of living in the area of the plant.  Perhaps, based on the negotiated rates of current RP Techs IF the plant is already Union.  It would be a reasonable starting point that is quite defendable based on bargainning history at the plant. 

cjking5406.... thanks fer joining in the discussion.  glad to have a rep in here!

would yinz be thinking about multiple contracts on a per plant basis?  or a regional basis?  is the possiblility of a national agreement on the page?

hay, sumbuddy gotta axe this stuff!

[SloGlo]

so tell me why I need a union?

i'm guessing you don't.  ya need a hand?  what sector of the country do ya work?

[cjking5406]

SloGlo, I don't know how to id which posting I'm replying to, but as to what I would forsee....

I would think you would need something on a national basis to have access to the portablity of beni's that are needed for this to work for contractors.  Something similar to what the IBEW has for construction workers as it relates to negotiations of health benefits.  That's to say, a bank of hours for health care.  When a contractor (Bartlett) negotiates their package, it builds in so much per hour for health care.  That amount goes into a bank for the worker to use for thier health care and builds up when they work.  Let's say a tech works 300 hours a month for three months (regardless of whether it's one outage or multiple stops) and the plan "costs" 120 hours per month for the health care, the worker has banked 540 hours, or 4.5 months of the health care beni.  This is done with some construction Locals and is useful for many of our workers who put in long hours some months and none others.

What you can do is, negotiate!  There is no way of knowing what will be in a contract, but with some strength in numbers, your may be able to address some of the concerns I've read about in some postings. 

CJ