NukeWorker Forum

Career Path => Navy Nuke => Topic started by: withroaj on Apr 16, 2008, 01:14

Title: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Apr 16, 2008, 01:14
I am an ELT/SS and have been in this game for just over five years now.  Last year I destroyed my ankle and had to get some surgery done on it.  Over the course of the LIMDU process the UMO submitted submarine disqual paperwork, meaning I am about to get introduced to the surface Navy.

That being said, I liked being on a submarine.  Due to the cramped space and the fact that we shut the hatches and become our own world, the military atmosphere is more or less nonexistant (maybe all of the Diesel smell and recycled farts just dilute the military right out of the air).  People on submarines have no choice but to know each other and respect is dealt out based on contribution to the division/crew as opposed to rank or tenure.  I just don't imagine that's how it will work on a carrier.  I recently toured the USS ENTERPRISE, and I made it half way through the hangar bay before the QD watch chased me down and asked me if I was on the ship.  Wierd.  On the boat if someone has a visitor everyone already knows who it is.

I've been thinking I would go to ENTERPRISE because they have similar chemistry and bad working hours that would make the transition from a sub almost seamless (and I am sure they have a billet open). 

I am posting this because I would like to hear from anyone who left submarines after a considerable amount of time on board, and I want to find out about the noticeable differences (besides the massive size).  I am mainly interested in how the military climate works there.  Should I bust out my Bluejackets' Manual?
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: JustinHEMI05 on Apr 16, 2008, 01:32
Eww good luck with that. I hear they have places that you can't even walk. Can you imagine?

Justin
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 16, 2008, 01:56
First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

Secondly, Forget everything you know about how a Sub works and prepare for the world of the surface fleet.  Nukes still operate outside of the rest of the ship, but only when it is not to our benefit.  I. E. If the topsiders(surface equivalent to coners, Chowdales are not included in this group) are on 6 section duty and nukes can go 8, you will be in six.  If it is the other way around, Topsiders will still go eight.  There is this thing call a "normal work day" means you are out of your rack from this time to whenever because everyone is, whether you have watch or not.  If you have the late watch, too bad you might get to bug out after lunch but you usually have drills or GQ that night.  Chemisty on Nimitz class is pretty simple from what I remember(non-ELT).  It was pretty much set it and forget it as far as secondary(I didn't really mess with it).  Also remember that Carriers CO are non-nuke flyboys.  They get nuke trained but they aren't hatched from our community.  Those are a few tidbits about it.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: 93-383 on Apr 16, 2008, 02:12
I probably wouldn't choose to go to the Prize if I where you. Yes they have a similar chem. Method but AVT is easier. And most importantly the steam plant is not as complicated on a Nimitz class. However the plant design is very different on either class from a sub,and it is much more complicated. Nearly every ex-submariner I saw on the ship had just as much trouble learning the plant as someone fresh out of NPTU (chiefs included).
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Marlin on Apr 16, 2008, 03:49
First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

As long as you insist :)

Not being part of the "real" fleet is what appealed to most Submariners. Small crew, independent OPS, and no Master at Arms. I hated it when I had to do business on the Tender or on the Main Operations base where the "Tin Soldiers" took themselves seriously.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: rumrunner on Apr 16, 2008, 03:58
If there is one thing I remember from the Nimitz, it is the little games they liked to play with the blueshirts.  The Mickey-At-Arms would constantly roam the ship in pairs, hiding in little out of the way places so they could pounce on unsuspecting sailors and write them up for needing a haircut, wearing white socks, having unshined shoes, or some other affront to the American way of life.  Not that these things aren't important to discipline, but they were so anal about it.  A favorite hiding spot was adjacent to the door to our office (RL Div), so as you may expect, ELTs were often targets of convenience.  The bad thing was that there were nucs assigned to the MAA force for 6 month assignments and they got brainwashed and turned on their own.  Paybacks were hell, and they all had to come back to us eventually.  When I first boarded, it was cool otherwise and we didn't have formal quarters or have regular work days when underway.  That later changed under a new Captain and a new Reactor Officer who was a pain.  Then it was back to the fun I had previously on nuc cruisers, with formations and quarters every morning, impromptu inspections for uniforms and shoe shines, regular work days, etc.  It was a culture shock for many.

You can't beat the simplicity of chemistry on the A4W plants of the Nimitz class ships.  It only becomes a challenge when coming out of wet layup, and they may have solved that since I last did a sample 25 years ago.  You could also have a picnic in the reactor compartments.  Very large and very clean.

Edit to add another item:

I almost forgot about the Marines!  The Marine guard force on the carrier would have security alerts where they grabbed M16s and shot guns and ran over any sailor who wasn't fast enough to become part of the bulkhead and get out of the way.  I am actually a former Marine myself (did that before the Navy) but the grunts on the Nimitz were downright cruel at times. 
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: 93-383 on Apr 16, 2008, 04:47

I almost forgot about the Marines!  The Marine guard force on the carrier would have security alerts where they grabbed M16s and shot guns and ran over any sailor who wasn't fast enough to become part of the bulkhead and get out of the way.  I am actually a former Marine myself (did that before the Navy) but the grunts on the Nimitz were downright cruel at times. 

the Marine security detachments are gone now. But we still have Marines in the form of airdales
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: rumrunner on Apr 16, 2008, 05:38
the Marine security detachments are gone now.

I guess they left when the nuclear weapons were removed from the carriers several years ago?
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: 93-383 on Apr 16, 2008, 05:57
I guess they left when the nuclear weapons were removed from the carriers several years ago?

That would be correct. Now the only irritating people in camo are security..... Well until the new uniform comes out next year and we all look like a GI Joe character
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: rumrunner on Apr 16, 2008, 07:39
until the new uniform comes out next year and we all look like a GI Joe character

Sorry for the momentary thread drift, but that is pretty stupid.  I guess this will help the sailors blend in with all the foliage and sand out in the ocean.

I wonder if the submariners will have to wear them too?  Or perhaps camo poopie suits?

But one thing a submariner can bet on when going to the surface fleet - those new uniforms will be required and they had best be squared away.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: JustinHEMI05 on Apr 16, 2008, 08:25
It was the "dare" that made me do it,.... ;)

X2.

I was happy not to be in the real fleet. All of that "you can't walk there because you aren't important enough," saluting and begging permission to go ashore... or aboard... collared shirts... line standers... I guess you could say all the stuff that goes along with being part of the real military. :)No thanks. I liked growing a beard and wearing whatever shoes I wanted underway and having a beer and cigar with the skipper after you got done pouring the eng into his rack. Yup, I was happy not not be part of the "real fleet," as I am 100% sure our new member here is not happy he is going to the "real fleet."

Justin
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: PWHoppe on Apr 16, 2008, 10:10
First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

Pleased to do as you wish ;)

I think it should say Welcome to the Target Fleet, but that's just my opinion I could be wrong ;D
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: rumrunner on Apr 16, 2008, 10:50
The bottom line here...the surface Navy is the Navy in a traditional sense.  Quarters, inspections, requesting permission to go ashore, bells, bosun's whistles, manning the rails, etc.  Just like in the WWII movies.  If your ankle is destroyed and you are destined for your remaining years of service being shore duty and carriers, well, you had best embrace it and as Andy and Barney said about Aunt Bee's pickles..."learn to love them", because surface ship duty will never be like a submarine.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 17, 2008, 08:21
OUCH!!!! :'( :'(
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

There are a few perks to the surface fleet though.  Most departments have a LARGE storage area for a lot of things like bicycles, golf clubs, etc.  Knew some guys that would save up enough money to play golf in Dubai back when we would pull in there.  You get to see the sun, and the ship's store is actually a store, mail, email 99% of the time, foreign vendors when on deployment come on board, etc, etc, etc.  It will be a culture shock, but just remember Nukes are still nukes, and they will be who you seen 98% of the time.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Gamecock on Apr 17, 2008, 09:05
OUCH!!!! :'( :'(
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

There are a few perks to the surface fleet though. 

Oh...and the best part is that I was able to call my wife and kids everyday underway from the phone that was on my desk.  That's a perk worth its weight in gold!!!
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: withroaj on Apr 17, 2008, 09:08
You know you guys are right.  Besides, when I get my warfare pin there I can call all the so-called "qualified" guys there NUBS and tell them to get their fish.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Khak-Hater on Apr 17, 2008, 09:58
In my day on the E [~fifteen years ago], warfare pins didn't mean anything to nukes.  Very few surface nukes qualified ESWS and almost none qualified EAWS [I was one of two on board at the time].  To be honest, the only reason that a surface nuke qualifies on a warfare pin is because he's qualified on all his nuke watch stations and he's bored, or maybe to help him make chief.  Then again, about half the chiefs didn't have a warfare pin.

As to picking the E to serve on, I'd go for it.  It's so old that everything leaks, we had real spills on an almost daily basis [lots of RadCon experience].  Since you have eight reactors and she was designed with more than enough power generation capability, you can actually drop one or more reactors at sea and do maintainance in the RC while underway [even more RadCon experience].  With eight reactors and 32 very old steam generators, chemistry is a full time job for four guys at a time around the clock [Lots of Chemistry experience].  Finally, there are over a thousand nukes on board.  With an organization that big, you can really excel (e.g., at one point, I had ten ELTs working for me as an E-5) or really disappear if you want to [I knew ELTs who took specialized support jobs and stood nothing but proficiency watches for their entire four years].  She's a nightmare, but a wonderful opportunity to get lots of experience.

Oh, one last thing.  NEVER volunteer for a FOD walk-down no matter how inviting it sounds [AirDale Khaks are even worse than surface Nuke Kahks].

Enjoy,

MGM

Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: withroaj on Apr 17, 2008, 10:29
I agree with you there about the warfare pins.   While I do have to admit that I was more proud than I'd imagined I would be when I got my dolphins, they were really only a great big deal to the people who didn't have a hundred pages of qual cards other than SS.  I'd imagine that's the same on a carrier.  The people with no real quals get all wrapped up in the fact that they completed a qual card (when senior-in-rate for them is a five page card).

I have talked to some of my SPU buddies who recently reported to ENTERPRISE, and they tell me that there is some serious nub hatin' going on there.  I just figured I have a pin they don't, and I think that the best way to handle nub-hatin' is to point it out for the ridiculous concept that it is.  After completing my quals.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Gamecock on Apr 17, 2008, 11:19
In my day on the E [~fifteen years ago], warfare pins didn't mean anything to nukes.  Very few surface nukes qualified ESWS and almost none qualified EAWS [I was one of two on board at the time].  To be honest, the only reason that a surface nuke qualifies on a warfare pin is because he's qualified on all his nuke watch stations and he's bored, or maybe to help him make chief.  Then again, about half the chiefs didn't have a warfare pin.

As to picking the E to serve on, I'd go for it.  It's so old that everything leaks, we had real spills on an almost daily basis [lots of RadCon experience].  Since you have eight reactors and she was designed with more than enough power generation capability, you can actually drop one or more reactors at sea and do maintainance in the RC while underway [even more RadCon experience].  With eight reactors and 32 very old steam generators, chemistry is a full time job for four guys at a time around the clock [Lots of Chemistry experience].  Finally, there are over a thousand nukes on board.  With an organization that big, you can really excel (e.g., at one point, I had ten ELTs working for me as an E-5) or really disappear if you want to [I knew ELTs who took specialized support jobs and stood nothing but proficiency watches for their entire four years].  She's a nightmare, but a wonderful opportunity to get lots of experience.

Oh, one last thing.  NEVER volunteer for a FOD walk-down no matter how inviting it sounds [AirDale Khaks are even worse than surface Nuke Kahks].

Enjoy,

MGM




Warfare pin is REQUIRED to make E6 in today's navy!
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 17, 2008, 02:47
It isn't a requirement per se.  It is supposed to be that if you don't have your primary warfare pin by 18 months after you make E5 that your COC is supposed to withhold your promotion recommendation until you get it.  They could also not Frock you if you don't have it.  Knew a few people that made E6 without a pin and they weren't SPUs. 

If you do get "caught" by a Chowdale during a FOD walkdown, just run for the plant, 99% of them can't go in there and aren't smart enough to realize there are more than one entrance to the plant.  Besides they don't play in Nuke drills so why should we play in their games.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: JustinHEMI05 on Apr 17, 2008, 07:37
OUCH!!!! :'( :'(
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

Gave it back. :)

Justin
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: withroaj on Apr 18, 2008, 08:20
Does that mean that carriers run drills that aren't nuke drills.  For my whole time on the boat, the only time we ran a drill in the cone was when we had riders who couldn't go into the engine room, and then it would be the whole "Fire in the deep fat frier" deal.  It always came with Dukes of Hazzard style pause and commentary.

"Well it seems as if them FFE boys got that hose pressurized in two minutes."  I am sure the moms/congressmen/business men were impressed.  Ok, fine, it was fun.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 18, 2008, 08:21
Feeling a little better. ::)  Hey Justin it looks like we might have been the same place at the roughly the same time.  I got out in Oct 06 at charleston.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 18, 2008, 08:31
Yea usually about once a week they run General Quarters where the ship is pitted against Enemy Red or Yellow or Plaid.  Basically it is a boat wide firefighting, flooding, damage control, and whatnot game for 2 hours or so.  Airdales also run some drills on the flightdeck with planes that catch on fire, or can't land right, or bomb goes off, etc.  Nukes run drills everyday(usually in the mornings from Mid to noon or so) but if it is going to be the major one(Dual Plant DOWN or Dead In Water) they usually let the rest of the ship know before hand, including the watch team.  Most of the time they don't run drills on nukes in the plant during GQ.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: JustinHEMI05 on Apr 18, 2008, 09:38
Feeling a little better. ::)  Hey Justin it looks like we might have been the same place at the roughly the same time.  I got out in Oct 06 at charleston.

The only time I spent in Charleston was power school in 99. Did A school in orlando then prototype in NY then groton then back to NY as instructor.

Justin
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Len61 on Apr 18, 2008, 09:42
Yea usually about once a week they run General Quarters where the ship is pitted against Enemy Red or Yellow or Plaid.  Basically it is a boat wide firefighting, flooding, damage control, and whatnot game for 2 hours or so.  Airdales also run some drills on the flightdeck with planes that catch on fire, or can't land right, or bomb goes off, etc.  Nukes run drills everyday(usually in the mornings from Mid to noon or so) but if it is going to be the major one(Dual Plant DOWN or Dead In Water) they usually let the rest of the ship know before hand, including the watch team.  Most of the time they don't run drills on nukes in the plant during GQ.

Maybe things have changed.
My experience is:
The GQ drills were run mostly during daylight hours, but PPCCD (propulsion plant casualty  control drills) were run 95% of the time at night (read airdales at sleep, no flight ops) so away the Nuke casualty control teams when you may have had some rack time.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: shehane on Apr 18, 2008, 09:49
Going surface to sub or the the other way is mostly trading one set of bad conditions for another set.  In 84 there were shortages for sub volunteers.  After having volunteered for sub I called many times trying to get a carrier billet.  I got a tender out in Kings Bay and then a boomer slot.  Just depends on how you look at it and what you want to find.  Hope it works out.  don
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 18, 2008, 10:38
Maybe things have changed.
My experience is:
The GQ drills were run mostly during daylight hours, but PPCCD (propulsion plant casualty  control drills) were run 95% of the time at night (read airdales at sleep, no flight ops) so away the Nuke casualty control teams when you may have had some rack time.

Well on my old ship( ;)) we would usually run GQ at 1900-2100 on Thursdays or whenever the XO felt froggy.  PPCD was usually run on the 03-07 and 07-12 watches.  Occasionally if we had some flight ops that had to be done in the morning it was 22-03 and03-07 watches that got drills and we had a designated Casualty Team that was made up of senior guys that didn't stand watch except for proficiency watches. 

Justin---Well I was class 9903 back in the day
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: withroaj on Apr 18, 2008, 10:46
Wait. On Carriers there are enough people that nukes don't stand watch.  On a boat only the EDMC, Leading YN, Cooks and Doc don't stand watch.  Wierd.
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Apr 18, 2008, 11:02
Well it goes in flows.  At our best we were 10 section duty and we usually didn't go anymore than 4 section watch rotation underway.  Underway, after a while they will set the "watch teams" for ORSE even though other people get qual'd they only usually augment the "watch teams"  In short, yes there are nukes that don't stand watch except as needed.  My last few months on board I was on the Drill Team so I didn't stand watch, instead I went down and ran drills on the watch standers. 
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Khak-Hater on Apr 18, 2008, 11:22
As far as I know, Nub-hating has always been an art in RL-Div on the E.  As a Sea-returnee and particularly a Tuber-reject, you should be able to tell them to F#*% Off [from the start], and they'll let up after you've been qualified for a few weeks.  Competency is always the best defense.

Yes, on the E in the late 80s and early 90s, there were so many nukes on board that five or six nukes were constantly assigned to clean Reactor Department berthing full time [the Coop], four or five were loaned out to the Master At Arms to hand out hair cut and uniform discrepancy chits, and a couple of guys did admin duty in the Reactor Department office.  None of these guys stood watch.  You also had dudes from each division assigned as full-time Reactor Training Div instructors [no watches].  That's all just Reactor Department [with about 600 nukes].  I don't know what they did in Engineering Department [where they had another 3-400 nukes].  

Nobody in RL div stood a mechanical watchstation unless he wanted to (e.g., for proficiency, if he took the time to qualify a mechanical watch station, which wasn't required).  The exception to this was the handful of ELTs who qualified Watch Supervisor [Those Chiefs liked to get themselves on a better watch rotation], but once you were on the Watch Supervisor  rotation you didn't have to stand any ELT watches [except proficiencies].  It was always a toss up who had a better rotation between the two (i.e., there was no real advantage to qualifying as PPWS - it was simply a motivation thing like qualifying ESWS or EAWS).
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: Gamecock on Apr 18, 2008, 04:03
there was no real advantage to qualifying as PPWS - it was simply a motivation thing like qualifying ESWS or EAWS).

In today's nuclear navy, you will not make chief if you don't qualify PPWS! 

Also, as I previously said, you will not get a recommendation for E6 if you are not warfare qualified.  The exceptions are the SPU's or other people who never had a chance  to get warfare qualified until now (i.e. never served onboard a seagoing command until they were senior E5's), but even they have to get warfare qualified in a reasonable amount of time or face the consequences.   

Enlisted Warfare qualification was a joke on my CVN (we were in RCOH).  We held a two week course that essentially got all your PQS signed off....you only had to study and pass a cheesy board.  We had undesignated seamen that were dual warfare qualified. What a joke...But,  CO was proud of all his IKE "Warriors".
Title: Re: Sub to Surface after five years. Help me out here.
Post by: withroaj on Jul 09, 2008, 09:04
Another question here:  Any of you fellers ever serve on a Pre-Commisioning Unit carrier in the last little bit?  I'm headed to the PCU GEORGE H W BUSH, which is in the water now but not delivered to the Navy.  Any TRUMAN or REAGAN folks out there have some insight into the PCU carrier experience over the last ten years?
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Jul 28, 2008, 06:11
Any of you fellers know of good fishing in the Hampton Roads area or elsewhere in Eastern Virginia?  I've checked out Newport News Park, which seems decent, but I think I'd like to expand my horizons here.  Any Ideas?
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: Marlin on Jul 28, 2008, 06:34
Any of you fellers know of good fishing in the Hampton Roads area or elsewhere in Eastern Virginia?  I've checked out Newport News Park, which seems decent, but I think I'd like to expand my horizons here.  Any Ideas?

Try the break waters off of Ocean Side, particularly when the Blues are runnimg.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Jul 29, 2008, 02:28
Try the break waters off of Ocean Side, particularly when the Blues are runnimg.

I appreciate the advice.  Might as well make a day of it while I am still on transfer leave.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Jul 31, 2008, 09:19
Well, USS GEORGE WASHINGTON (CVN-73) is back in the news and I have some questions based on this new (mis)information.  I'm sure all of us not directly connected to GW have heard by now that the fire, which turned out to be quite a bit bigger than originally stated, was started by a stray butt in a reboiler space in intimate contact with some waste oil containers.  Apparently the fire took hours to get under control and affected over 80 spaces (any GW folks, please set the record straight for those of us who haven't heard any messages in the past several months).  This brings up a few questions for me.

1)As nukes do we own reboiler spaces?  Specifically:  I am an ELT.  Will I own reboiler chemistry?

2)While we all know our Hero Adm. Rickover said responsibility is: 

"…a unique concept: It can only reside in a single individual. You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you. You may disclaim it, but you cannot divest yourself of it. Even if you do not recognize it or admit its presence, you cannot escape it. If the responsibility is rightly yours, no evasion, or ignorance, or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point the finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible."

COULD the Commanding Officer of GW have possibly prevented this mishap, or did he just fall under this responsibility statement?  It seems to me that a carrier is just too damn big for the CO to police the spaces by himself.  While we saw the CO just about every day on the boat, he didn't have hundreds of spaces and thousands of people to keep after.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: retired nuke on Jul 31, 2008, 09:25
COULD the Commanding Officer of GW have possibly prevented this mishap, or did he just fall under this responsibility statement?  It seems to me that a carrier is just too damn big for the CO to police the spaces by himself.  While we saw the CO just about every day on the boat, he didn't have hundreds of spaces and thousands of people to keep after.

It was up to him to establish a culture of personal ownership, responsibility and pride - evidently the culture was one where a sailor thought it was OK to smoke in an area where flammable material was stored, at sea, where you can't walk out of the building....
Had the CO of my boat relieved of command in the Med - bounced off the bottom...he had a culture that allowed the details of our location to not be up to date, and an OOD that allowed the Captain to direct sailors on his watch without assuming the watch.....too many cooks, and nobody knowing who was in charge.
No, you can't patrol every space, but as Capt, you are responsible for everyone's behavior on board.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jul 31, 2008, 09:55

"…a unique concept: It can only reside in a single individual. You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you. You may disclaim it, but you cannot divest yourself of it. Even if you do not recognize it or admit its presence, you cannot escape it. If the responsibility is rightly yours, no evasion, or ignorance, or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point the finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible."

COULD the Commanding Officer of GW have possibly prevented this mishap, or did he just fall under this responsibility statement? 

Rickover answered your question for ya. As CO, clear reinforcement of the expectations needed to be communicated to the Dept. heads and junior officers.

Just remember.... " YOKE is no joke! "
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Jul 31, 2008, 10:05

As far as some guy smoking a cigarette in an inappropriate location, a random stupid act doesn't always reflect on the way a command does business.


I think that was my issue here.  Even though the overall consequences of the fire were pretty hefty (the news says $70 million), some guy having a smoke where he isn't supposed to doesn't mean the CO doesn't have a grip on his command.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: HydroDave63 on Jul 31, 2008, 10:18
I think that was my issue here.  Even though the overall consequences of the fire were pretty hefty (the news says $70 million), some guy having a smoke where he isn't supposed to doesn't mean the CO doesn't have a grip on his command.

What I think is being missed here is that yes, a fire in 1 space is NOT the CO's fault...but obviously combustibles were left out, class B stuff not in flam cabinets, spreading to multiple spaces...that IS a failure of the JOs to do proper space inspections consistently, and thus the failure of Dept. Heads and ultimately the CO to ride herd on cleanliness and damage control. Although many of the 80 spaces were small, we're talking roughly the same amount of real estate on CVN 73 on fire as FFG 31 Stark back in 87, for an avoidable cause.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: Mnemorath on Jul 31, 2008, 12:23
Avoidable or not, the CO was held accountable. The newspaper here in San Diego ran a story on the front page of the local news section. Both the CO and the XO were relieved. A previous CO of another carrier and I think the XO of the Ike replaced them.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: 93-383 on Jul 31, 2008, 03:27

1)As nukes do we own reboiler spaces?  Specifically:  I am an ELT.  Will I own reboiler chemistry?



Yes and Yes
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Jul 31, 2008, 04:00
Yes and Yes

Sounds like I will have some stuff to learn.  If I am in RCTQS at NNSY for almost five months between Permanent Duty Stations, you folks think I'd be able to stop by the ship in NGNN while I am in school and maybe kick loose some cobwebs?  Any of you ever heard of that happening (I know some Big E kids who will be in my class, but they are TAD to school, not in transit)?  It's been since September '07 when I drew my last primary, and I'd like to show up to the ship at least a little better off than a kid straight out of the pipeline; maybe get a slight grasp on Section 4A chemistry even though I know I should just appreciate my time away from shipboard work and quals.  I just think it would be funny to have my RO check in interview at the same time as my ELT qualification interview.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: Preciousblue1965 on Aug 01, 2008, 06:46
As a submariner, you already know reboiler chemistry....wink, wink.


In theory you know reboiler chemistry.  However, after talking to every ELT I have every known on a CVN, Reboiler chemistry is a just a fairy tale.  Most of the reboiler return water comes from places that nukes don't own, thus we have no idea what makes it into the feed tank.  You have just about as much chance of predicting what the samples will read as predicting the lottery numbers that week.  But Reboiler Chemist is a pretty easy watchstation to handle, one of those 24 hour watches like underway ELT or from what i am told.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Aug 01, 2008, 10:06

PS - do they have S5W's anymore?!?!?


Two of 'em.  Moored in Goose Creek. :P

PARCHE (SSN 683) was the last S5W boat to decommission, wasn't it?  That was a couple of years ago now.  Now it's S6G (688's), S6W (SSN-21's), S8G (726-class), and S9G (774-class).  Well that and the A2W (CVN-65) and A4W (CVN-68 class), and whatever the hell the NR-1 plant is called.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: rlbinc on Aug 01, 2008, 02:43
I think I remember fires as a monthly occurrance on an Aircraft Carrier.
I don't think I ever heard of casualties resulting. Some pretty serious messes, though.
Mess Decks, Bad Landings, smoking blower motors, Hangar Bay work, etc.
It seemed that about half the time they sounded a Fire Alarm while underway, it was real deal.

The worst smoke deal I ever encountered was a missile shot on the cruiser USS Long Beach.
You'd think the plant intake fans would be tripped before they fire a Terrier, but that doesn't happen. The Machinery Spaces fill with the nastiest, cough inducing white smoke you can imagine. The vent intakes were about 20 feet from the missile launchers.
 
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: HydroDave63 on Aug 01, 2008, 06:13
I think I remember fires as a monthly occurrance on an Aircraft Carrier.
I don't think I ever heard of casualties resulting. Some pretty serious messes, though.
Mess Decks, Bad Landings, smoking blower motors, Hangar Bay work, etc.
It seemed that about half the time they sounded a Fire Alarm while underway, it was real deal.

The worst smoke deal I ever encountered was a missile shot on the cruiser USS Long Beach.
You'd think the plant intake fans would be tripped before they fire a Terrier, but that doesn't happen. The Machinery Spaces fill with the nastiest, cough inducing white smoke you can imagine. The vent intakes were about 20 feet from the missile launchers.
 

Don't worry, the OTTO fuel is so toxic, it kills any of the cells that may have become cancer! ;)
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: PapaBear765 on Aug 01, 2008, 06:26

I think I remember fires as a monthly occurrance on an Aircraft Carrier.


There was a bad one on the Stennis (?) this year.  A whole office was charred, dozens of buses were grounded. 
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: JustinHEMI05 on Aug 01, 2008, 06:31
Don't worry, the OTTO fuel is so toxic, it kills any of the cells that may have become cancer! ;)

"One of the products of its combustion is highly toxic hydrogen cyanide gas."

 :D

Justin
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: withroaj on Aug 01, 2008, 06:33
"One of the products of its combustion is highly toxic hydrogen cyanide gas."

 :D


And it smells like almonds when it burns (or is that just what TM's say?).
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: arduousartifice on Aug 02, 2008, 12:14
And it smells like almonds when it burns (or is that just what TM's say?).

Yup, but some people can't smell cyanide.  Here's hoping the TMOW isn't one of them.  :D
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: Marlin on Aug 02, 2008, 04:23
For those of you concerned about OPSEC much of this information is public.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts77.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_fuel_II
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: goobs22xx on Aug 08, 2008, 11:34
Two of 'em.  Moored in Goose Creek. :P

PARCHE (SSN 683) was the last S5W boat to decommission, wasn't it? 

Correct. I have a buddy at Prototype who was on the decommissioning crew.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: LaFeet on Aug 08, 2008, 06:57
That's okay grasshopper, it's been 22 years since I drew my last sample,.....

But, gimme' an S5W sink and a reader and I bet you I could pull one today, make all my times, fill out the logs and still work in a cup of coffee on the messdecks before the CDA was done,...

Now that's training!!!,...(or acute brainwashing), thanks Hymie!!! ( I think,  :-\)

PS - do they have S5W's anymore?!?!?

Thanks for the laugh.... Ill read for ya and get your coffee to boot.....

As for S5Ws, they should all be in Hanford by now..... Its the 6G / 8G crowd now  as the oldies and the new kids (Virginni & Seawolfies) on the blocks for the boats... though they still have NR-1
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: OldHP on Aug 08, 2008, 09:37
Reading through the posts - it seems like the GW I remember (the sub one) - CO releaved at sea - went down to GC to bring her back to NL

With the fairly little real sea time NR-1 gets she should be around for a while longer
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: fueldryer on Aug 09, 2008, 10:57
Reading through the posts - it seems like the GW I remember (the sub one) - CO releaved at sea - went down to GC to bring her back to NL

With the fairly little real sea time NR-1 gets she should be around for a while longer
I saw NR-1 pull into NL last week.Local news reported that the navy is gonna shut her down for good.
Title: Re: Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet
Post by: arduousartifice on Aug 09, 2008, 05:19
I saw NR-1 pull into NL last week.Local news reported that the navy is gonna shut her down for good.

Yup, PNSY is getting ready to inactivate her as we type.