Transition from Submarine to Surface Fleet

[withroaj]

I am an ELT/SS and have been in this game for just over five years now.  Last year I destroyed my ankle and had to get some surgery done on it.  Over the course of the LIMDU process the UMO submitted submarine disqual paperwork, meaning I am about to get introduced to the surface Navy.

That being said, I liked being on a submarine.  Due to the cramped space and the fact that we shut the hatches and become our own world, the military atmosphere is more or less nonexistant (maybe all of the Diesel smell and recycled farts just dilute the military right out of the air).  People on submarines have no choice but to know each other and respect is dealt out based on contribution to the division/crew as opposed to rank or tenure.  I just don't imagine that's how it will work on a carrier.  I recently toured the USS ENTERPRISE, and I made it half way through the hangar bay before the QD watch chased me down and asked me if I was on the ship.  Wierd.  On the boat if someone has a visitor everyone already knows who it is.

I've been thinking I would go to ENTERPRISE because they have similar chemistry and bad working hours that would make the transition from a sub almost seamless (and I am sure they have a billet open). 

I am posting this because I would like to hear from anyone who left submarines after a considerable amount of time on board, and I want to find out about the noticeable differences (besides the massive size).  I am mainly interested in how the military climate works there.  Should I bust out my Bluejackets' Manual?

[JustinHEMI05]

Eww good luck with that. I hear they have places that you can't even walk. Can you imagine?

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

Secondly, Forget everything you know about how a Sub works and prepare for the world of the surface fleet.  Nukes still operate outside of the rest of the ship, but only when it is not to our benefit.  I. E. If the topsiders(surface equivalent to coners, Chowdales are not included in this group) are on 6 section duty and nukes can go 8, you will be in six.  If it is the other way around, Topsiders will still go eight.  There is this thing call a "normal work day" means you are out of your rack from this time to whenever because everyone is, whether you have watch or not.  If you have the late watch, too bad you might get to bug out after lunch but you usually have drills or GQ that night.  Chemisty on Nimitz class is pretty simple from what I remember(non-ELT).  It was pretty much set it and forget it as far as secondary(I didn't really mess with it).  Also remember that Carriers CO are non-nuke flyboys.  They get nuke trained but they aren't hatched from our community.  Those are a few tidbits about it.  Have fun.

[93-383]

I probably wouldn't choose to go to the Prize if I where you. Yes they have a similar chem. Method but AVT is easier. And most importantly the steam plant is not as complicated on a Nimitz class. However the plant design is very different on either class from a sub,and it is much more complicated. Nearly every ex-submariner I saw on the ship had just as much trouble learning the plant as someone fresh out of NPTU (chiefs included).

[Marlin]

First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

As long as you insist

Not being part of the "real" fleet is what appealed to most Submariners. Small crew, independent OPS, and no Master at Arms. I hated it when I had to do business on the Tender or on the Main Operations base where the "Tin Soldiers" took themselves seriously.

[rumrunner]

If there is one thing I remember from the Nimitz, it is the little games they liked to play with the blueshirts.  The Mickey-At-Arms would constantly roam the ship in pairs, hiding in little out of the way places so they could pounce on unsuspecting sailors and write them up for needing a haircut, wearing white socks, having unshined shoes, or some other affront to the American way of life.  Not that these things aren't important to discipline, but they were so anal about it.  A favorite hiding spot was adjacent to the door to our office (RL Div), so as you may expect, ELTs were often targets of convenience.  The bad thing was that there were nucs assigned to the MAA force for 6 month assignments and they got brainwashed and turned on their own.  Paybacks were hell, and they all had to come back to us eventually.  When I first boarded, it was cool otherwise and we didn't have formal quarters or have regular work days when underway.  That later changed under a new Captain and a new Reactor Officer who was a pain.  Then it was back to the fun I had previously on nuc cruisers, with formations and quarters every morning, impromptu inspections for uniforms and shoe shines, regular work days, etc.  It was a culture shock for many.

You can't beat the simplicity of chemistry on the A4W plants of the Nimitz class ships.  It only becomes a challenge when coming out of wet layup, and they may have solved that since I last did a sample 25 years ago.  You could also have a picnic in the reactor compartments.  Very large and very clean.

Edit to add another item:

I almost forgot about the Marines!  The Marine guard force on the carrier would have security alerts where they grabbed M16s and shot guns and ran over any sailor who wasn't fast enough to become part of the bulkhead and get out of the way.  I am actually a former Marine myself (did that before the Navy) but the grunts on the Nimitz were downright cruel at times. 

[93-383]

I almost forgot about the Marines!  The Marine guard force on the carrier would have security alerts where they grabbed M16s and shot guns and ran over any sailor who wasn't fast enough to become part of the bulkhead and get out of the way.  I am actually a former Marine myself (did that before the Navy) but the grunts on the Nimitz were downright cruel at times. 

the Marine security detachments are gone now. But we still have Marines in the form of airdales

[rumrunner]

the Marine security detachments are gone now.

I guess they left when the nuclear weapons were removed from the carriers several years ago?

[93-383]

I guess they left when the nuclear weapons were removed from the carriers several years ago?

That would be correct. Now the only irritating people in camo are security..... Well until the new uniform comes out next year and we all look like a GI Joe character

[rumrunner]

until the new uniform comes out next year and we all look like a GI Joe character

Sorry for the momentary thread drift, but that is pretty stupid.  I guess this will help the sailors blend in with all the foliage and sand out in the ocean.

I wonder if the submariners will have to wear them too?  Or perhaps camo poopie suits?

But one thing a submariner can bet on when going to the surface fleet - those new uniforms will be required and they had best be squared away.

[JustinHEMI05]

It was the "dare" that made me do it,....

X2.

I was happy not to be in the real fleet. All of that "you can't walk there because you aren't important enough," saluting and begging permission to go ashore... or aboard... collared shirts... line standers... I guess you could say all the stuff that goes along with being part of the real military. :)No thanks. I liked growing a beard and wearing whatever shoes I wanted underway and having a beer and cigar with the skipper after you got done pouring the eng into his rack. Yup, I was happy not not be part of the "real fleet," as I am 100% sure our new member here is not happy he is going to the "real fleet."

Justin

[PWHoppe]

First of all, Welcome to the REAL fleet!!!!(Awaiting those who would dare to smite for that comment).

Pleased to do as you wish

I think it should say Welcome to the Target Fleet, but that's just my opinion I could be wrong

[rumrunner]

The bottom line here...the surface Navy is the Navy in a traditional sense.  Quarters, inspections, requesting permission to go ashore, bells, bosun's whistles, manning the rails, etc.  Just like in the WWII movies.  If your ankle is destroyed and you are destined for your remaining years of service being shore duty and carriers, well, you had best embrace it and as Andy and Barney said about Aunt Bee's pickles..."learn to love them", because surface ship duty will never be like a submarine.

[Preciousblue1965]

OUCH!!!!
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

There are a few perks to the surface fleet though.  Most departments have a LARGE storage area for a lot of things like bicycles, golf clubs, etc.  Knew some guys that would save up enough money to play golf in Dubai back when we would pull in there.  You get to see the sun, and the ship's store is actually a store, mail, email 99% of the time, foreign vendors when on deployment come on board, etc, etc, etc.  It will be a culture shock, but just remember Nukes are still nukes, and they will be who you seen 98% of the time.

[Gamecock]

OUCH!!!!
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

There are a few perks to the surface fleet though. 

Oh...and the best part is that I was able to call my wife and kids everyday underway from the phone that was on my desk.  That's a perk worth its weight in gold!!!

[withroaj]

You know you guys are right.  Besides, when I get my warfare pin there I can call all the so-called "qualified" guys there NUBS and tell them to get their fish.

[Khak-Hater]

In my day on the E [~fifteen years ago], warfare pins didn't mean anything to nukes.  Very few surface nukes qualified ESWS and almost none qualified EAWS [I was one of two on board at the time].  To be honest, the only reason that a surface nuke qualifies on a warfare pin is because he's qualified on all his nuke watch stations and he's bored, or maybe to help him make chief.  Then again, about half the chiefs didn't have a warfare pin.

As to picking the E to serve on, I'd go for it.  It's so old that everything leaks, we had real spills on an almost daily basis [lots of RadCon experience].  Since you have eight reactors and she was designed with more than enough power generation capability, you can actually drop one or more reactors at sea and do maintainance in the RC while underway [even more RadCon experience].  With eight reactors and 32 very old steam generators, chemistry is a full time job for four guys at a time around the clock [Lots of Chemistry experience].  Finally, there are over a thousand nukes on board.  With an organization that big, you can really excel (e.g., at one point, I had ten ELTs working for me as an E-5) or really disappear if you want to [I knew ELTs who took specialized support jobs and stood nothing but proficiency watches for their entire four years].  She's a nightmare, but a wonderful opportunity to get lots of experience.

Oh, one last thing.  NEVER volunteer for a FOD walk-down no matter how inviting it sounds [AirDale Khaks are even worse than surface Nuke Kahks].

Enjoy,

MGM

[withroaj]

I agree with you there about the warfare pins.   While I do have to admit that I was more proud than I'd imagined I would be when I got my dolphins, they were really only a great big deal to the people who didn't have a hundred pages of qual cards other than SS.  I'd imagine that's the same on a carrier.  The people with no real quals get all wrapped up in the fact that they completed a qual card (when senior-in-rate for them is a five page card).

I have talked to some of my SPU buddies who recently reported to ENTERPRISE, and they tell me that there is some serious nub hatin' going on there.  I just figured I have a pin they don't, and I think that the best way to handle nub-hatin' is to point it out for the ridiculous concept that it is.  After completing my quals.

[Gamecock]

In my day on the E [~fifteen years ago], warfare pins didn't mean anything to nukes.  Very few surface nukes qualified ESWS and almost none qualified EAWS [I was one of two on board at the time].  To be honest, the only reason that a surface nuke qualifies on a warfare pin is because he's qualified on all his nuke watch stations and he's bored, or maybe to help him make chief.  Then again, about half the chiefs didn't have a warfare pin.

As to picking the E to serve on, I'd go for it.  It's so old that everything leaks, we had real spills on an almost daily basis [lots of RadCon experience].  Since you have eight reactors and she was designed with more than enough power generation capability, you can actually drop one or more reactors at sea and do maintainance in the RC while underway [even more RadCon experience].  With eight reactors and 32 very old steam generators, chemistry is a full time job for four guys at a time around the clock [Lots of Chemistry experience].  Finally, there are over a thousand nukes on board.  With an organization that big, you can really excel (e.g., at one point, I had ten ELTs working for me as an E-5) or really disappear if you want to [I knew ELTs who took specialized support jobs and stood nothing but proficiency watches for their entire four years].  She's a nightmare, but a wonderful opportunity to get lots of experience.

Oh, one last thing.  NEVER volunteer for a FOD walk-down no matter how inviting it sounds [AirDale Khaks are even worse than surface Nuke Kahks].

Enjoy,

MGM

Warfare pin is REQUIRED to make E6 in today's navy!

[Preciousblue1965]

It isn't a requirement per se.  It is supposed to be that if you don't have your primary warfare pin by 18 months after you make E5 that your COC is supposed to withhold your promotion recommendation until you get it.  They could also not Frock you if you don't have it.  Knew a few people that made E6 without a pin and they weren't SPUs. 

If you do get "caught" by a Chowdale during a FOD walkdown, just run for the plant, 99% of them can't go in there and aren't smart enough to realize there are more than one entrance to the plant.  Besides they don't play in Nuke drills so why should we play in their games.

[JustinHEMI05]

OUCH!!!!
(Reeling after being promptly smited by all)

Gave it back.

Justin

[withroaj]

Does that mean that carriers run drills that aren't nuke drills.  For my whole time on the boat, the only time we ran a drill in the cone was when we had riders who couldn't go into the engine room, and then it would be the whole "Fire in the deep fat frier" deal.  It always came with Dukes of Hazzard style pause and commentary.

"Well it seems as if them FFE boys got that hose pressurized in two minutes."  I am sure the moms/congressmen/business men were impressed.  Ok, fine, it was fun.

[Preciousblue1965]

Feeling a little better.   Hey Justin it looks like we might have been the same place at the roughly the same time.  I got out in Oct 06 at charleston.

[Preciousblue1965]

Yea usually about once a week they run General Quarters where the ship is pitted against Enemy Red or Yellow or Plaid.  Basically it is a boat wide firefighting, flooding, damage control, and whatnot game for 2 hours or so.  Airdales also run some drills on the flightdeck with planes that catch on fire, or can't land right, or bomb goes off, etc.  Nukes run drills everyday(usually in the mornings from Mid to noon or so) but if it is going to be the major one(Dual Plant DOWN or Dead In Water) they usually let the rest of the ship know before hand, including the watch team.  Most of the time they don't run drills on nukes in the plant during GQ.

[JustinHEMI05]

Feeling a little better.   Hey Justin it looks like we might have been the same place at the roughly the same time.  I got out in Oct 06 at charleston.

The only time I spent in Charleston was power school in 99. Did A school in orlando then prototype in NY then groton then back to NY as instructor.

Justin