can't decide if i want to STAR

[psionic]

Thanks in advance for any insight!

I am an EM3, I have been in for a little over 2.5 years, and with the large drop in the EM multiple, I'm not sure if I should STAR.

I'm not a huge fan of my job, but It's not something that I can't bare for 2 more.  However, I walked into the recruiters office asking for nuke, with every intention of joining so that I could get my NEC and get out with an honorable discharge so I could go to a civilian plant.

Now as it stands, I have a rent and car payment, and with the loss of BAH upon getting to my ship, the reenlistment is looking pretty sweet.

I'm not sure which path I should take, the bonus doesn't seem very fair, as my MM and ET brothers are getting 3+ times as much money as I am, AND i feel like the civi side can definitely pay me more than the 35k a year plus benies that I get right now.  Is it worth digging in my shoulder and living like a half hobo for another year and a half til get my 4 year mark (and thus BAH) and get out as an E-4 at 6 years? or should I star and get it over with picking up BAH and E-5, but be 2 years away from what I really want and getting the booby prize of Nuke bonuses?

Please help!

[deltarho]

Don't do it for the money...

Do it because you can get a "C" school that will help you attain what you want when you get out.

Do it because you can go to college while on shore duty; thereby, have a job while attaining at least an associates at the Navy's expense (is it still 75%?).

Do it because it will give you more time to hone your craft, develop leadership skills, mature, see more of the world that you really wanted to see.

In all you do, have a purpose that will still pay dividends long after the money runs out.

I was always prepared to get out, but reenlisted only because I hadn't achieved my goals. I reenlisted so that I could do what I wanted at the Navy's expense.  Along the way to getting what I wanted out of Uncle Sam, I made E-8 at my 11-year point, which changed my goals.  I still got out at my 18 year and 3 month point...new goals.

[Khak-Hater]

A well-dressed man walks up to an attractive young woman and asks "Will you have sex with me for ten thousand dollars?"  She looks at him and thinks "I've had sex with worse looking men for free,"  so she agrees.  He then comes back with "Would you do it for $50.00?"  A little shocked, she replies with "What do you think I am?"  He answers "We've already established that.  Now we're talking price."

It's a very old joke, but eternally true.  You're an E-4 in the navy.  You should aspire to work your way up to "half hobo."  Seriously, an apartment and a car aren't responsabilities.  They're luxuries. 

Serve a couple of years at sea before you decide whether you want to do two more years of it.  If you like it, reenlist all that you want.  If you don't, then get out and get on with your life.  By the time that they reached their original EAOS, about 90% of the dudes that I new who reenlisted STAR would've gladly taken out a loan to pay back their SRB just to get out when they should've.  You owe it to your future self to wait and see how good the deal looks after you've done the job for a few years.

Choose wisely,

mgm

[JustinHEMI05]

PAPER CLIP 

Justin

[NukeLDO]

Do it because you can get a "C" school that will help you attain what you want when you get out.

"C" school for electricians?  Good luck with that.  You have a better chance of going to dive school than any Navy "C" school.

[Joshboy]

Put simply: Don't.

There is a reason that the STAR program targets people who haven't had significant time on the pond.  If you think the job is a bit unsavory now, just wait till you have been doing ORSE workup for 3 consecutive years non-stop. It. gets. bad.  This is assuming you are on a fast boat, and not a carrier / boomer.  If you are a boomer or surface guy, it might be a good deal.   Life is quite a bit easier for those fellows.

Additionally, what makes you think you are going to end your career as an E-4?  They do still have rating exams don't they?  E-5 and BAH are right around the corner for a nuke.  They pretty much hand out E-5 and E-6 to nukes unless you are a complete dirtbag.  The only nuke I ever saw leave as an E-4 had been masted 3 times, and even he would have made it out the door as an E-5 if they didn't get him 2 months before he discharged.

[Gamecock]

"C" school for electricians?  Good luck with that.  You have a better chance of going to dive school than any Navy "C" school.

I was RE DIVO back on IKE during her refueling complex overhaul.  I sent many an EM to "C" school.  If I remember right, motor rewind school was one of the best and most sought after.

[NukeLDO]

I was RE DIVO back on IKE during her refueling complex overhaul.  I sent many an EM to "C" school.  If I remember right, motor rewind school was one of the best and most sought after.

Ooops....forgot about the surface navy.     Electrician's Mate  "C" school for the submarine fleet was pretty much non-existent back in the 90's...maybe its different now, but I don't see any evidence of it on any of the boats here.

[Harley Rider]

A well-dressed man walks up to an attractive young woman and asks "Will you have sex with me for ten thousand dollars?"  She looks at him and thinks "I've had sex with worse looking men for free,"  so she agrees.  He then comes back with "Would you do it for $50.00?"  A little shocked, she replies with "What do you think I am?"  He answers "We've already established that.  Now we're talking price."

It's a very old joke, but eternally true.  You're an E-4 in the navy.  You should aspire to work your way up to "half hobo."  Seriously, an apartment and a car aren't responsabilities.  They're luxuries. 

Serve a couple of years at sea before you decide whether you want to do two more years of it.  If you like it, reenlist all that you want.  If you don't, then get out and get on with your life.  By the time that they reached their original EAOS, about 90% of the dudes that I new who reenlisted STAR would've gladly taken out a loan to pay back their SRB just to get out when they should've.  You owe it to your future self to wait and see how good the deal looks after you've done the job for a few years.

Choose wisely,

mgm

This is rock solid advice which you would do well to heed

[93-383]

Wether or not to STAR is a question only you can answer. If you can, wait until you are deployed in a tax free zone.

[Samabby]

Your indecision IS your decision. There can be no half steps in this career choice. Time to get out. Thanks for your service.

[psionic]

Additionally, what makes you think you are going to end your career as an E-4?  They do still have rating exams don't they?  E-5 and BAH are right around the corner for a nuke.  They pretty much hand out E-5 and E-6 to nukes unless you are a complete dirtbag.  The only nuke I ever saw leave as an E-4 had been masted 3 times, and even he would have made it out the door as an E-5 if they didn't get him 2 months before he discharged.

Well, I have plenty of guys in front of me that are senior in rate qualified, with less than a year left in service, that did not STAR, and are still 3rd's.  Electrician advancement is next to nil to get to E-5 off of the test, and the only answer that I can find is cause so many of us keep STARing.  There is a reason our multiple is so low compared to everyone else.

[Jimmykroffa]

It doesn't really matter what rank you are when you get out.....

[Joshboy]

Well, I have plenty of guys in front of me that are senior in rate qualified, with less than a year left in service, that did not STAR, and are still 3rd's.  Electrician advancement is next to nil to get to E-5 off of the test, and the only answer that I can find is cause so many of us keep STARing.  There is a reason our multiple is so low compared to everyone else.

Honestly, I am surprised about this.  Are you on a surface ship or some such?  Its terribly peculiar, and a complete polar opposite to the state of things when I got out in 2004.

Regardless, my advice is still the same - take a bite of your first s**t sandwich before you order another.

[formerET1Han]

Here's how I see it...the only reason anyone, Navy or otherwise, gives you big money to do something is
1) there aren't many people who want to do your job
or
2) there aren't many people who can

That being said, which do you think it is? Do you really think it's that hard to do your job? Is it really that hard to push a kid through the nuke pipeline? Since both of those answers are probably no, the job in itself isn't that hard, and the school was do-able, then why isn't your multiple 0?

Because even though there are plenty of qualified individuals who CAN do the job, not many people want to. I hate 3 section duty. I hate port and starboard more. Duty alone is a good enough reason to leave in my opinion. Go to any civilian occupation and ask them how often they sleep at work. Imagine how much you'd be paid if you were hourly and were at work on 2 separate 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Now, that covers sea duty.

On to shore duty - 8 section duty sounds pretty sweet...compared to the pain of sea duty. Only the senior most individuals have 24 hour call back in the civilian world, and they are paid a pretty penny for that. They don't have to sign away years of their lives to do it. If one day, they come in to work and say, "can't do it," no one gives them a world of s**t. I agree that one should finish their BS (not an AA) before getting out if they can. But I recommend not STAR-ing to do it. Wait until your EAOS is coming up. See if the Navy really needs you. If they give you A school or Power school, TRF or the pure water truck, sure...

[Already Gone]

I'll tell you what.

Get a BS if you want one, or don't.

Stay in if you like it (you don't know yet if you like it or not)  You need to spend two full years at sea before you know if you like it.  If you get married at any point, the two-year clock resets to zero beginning on the first day you are underway following the wedding.

Lose the apartment.  You don't need it.  Or, get some room-mates.

When you re-enlist you ALWAYS do it for the money.  But the money in question represents years of your life - thus, it must be seen as an investment.  You invest SRB money (by buying a house or sticking it into an IRA or buying bonds, etc.)  You don't SPEND SRB money.  That is not wise.  So, if you are looking at SRB as a way to pay for an apartment you don't need or a nice car that may be more than you need or can afford, you are looking for love in all the wrong places, my friend.

But, the fact that you ship-over for the money does not mean that the money is worth it.  If you hate your job (like I said, you don't know yet) the money will not be worth the extra time you will have to do it.  If you love your job, well, that's why they call it a bonus.  Because the truth is that you can get money in a lot of places.  "Do it for the money" really means "do it because you love it but take the money anyway".

By the way, good luck and thank you for serving our country.

[deltarho]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (it was that way when I was in too ... circa 80's) Mr. Bill!

My first Work Center Supervisor was an E-4.  He was qualified up to RT (on a surface ship that means he walks on water and is the Reactor Controls tech. rep. on the watch--so to speak).  He had E-6s working for him.  Back then, it wasn't about rank--it was about ability, experience, knowledge, and not messing with the LPO's locked toolbox that had his "cigarettes" in it.  The rating exam wanted to know about Radar Gear and Communications Gear and other Topsider-Coner equipment.  Who has time to maintain level of knowledge about such esoteric things when there are Fast Recovery Start-Ups to supervise, Rod Maintenance to perform, Calorimetrics and Estimated Critical Positions to calculate...

[playswithairplanes]

Lots of good advice for young nubs.  Another thing is to look at just how much SRB you are getting for how many years, then compare that to average starting salary on the outside, either inside the Nuke Industry or out. If you are going to whore yourself, you might as well know just how much you're whoring yourself for. 

[TJ Nuke]

Several questions (after reading most everything posted on the subject - although not sure I still remember it all):

Is an E-5 from star less valuable for the future than regular advancement?

If you are reasonably certain to advance from testing on the September test, would it be better to wait the 6 months for the results (I understand the financial difference)?

As I do the calculation, it looks like the extra 2 years will mostly be spent ashore.  SPU seems to be an option.  I think it would be more interesting to do that job after being on a boat.  But it appears that the remaining time (of the total of 6 or 8 years w/star) looks something like this: (a) finish ELT (after almost 26 months in the Navy), go to the fleet, then come back for prototype or other nuke school staff with very little time left on the 8 years (after the extension) to go back to the fleet OR (b) SPU, then go to the fleet with limited time thereafter.  As a result, it doesn't look like very much of the extra 2 years will be additional time spent in the fleet.  Am I missing something?

[NukeLDO]

SPU is duty immediately following qualification at prototype.  If you are a stellar student, you may be offered a SPU position.  Once you go to the fleet and come back, you are a sea returnee, not a SPU.

[TJ Nuke]

Just qualified prototype.   Orders for ELT.  Had option to stay for SPU or ELT, chose ELT. 

Assume SPU would still be an option after qualify ELT - maybe wrong assumption . 

One of the issues I am trying to understand is:  Does the extra 2 years (STAR) really mean 2 more years in the fleet or is a substantial part of it really going to be some land job?  Is that amount of time significantly changed by whether I accept SPU or end up on staff later?
Am I correct in assuming that my most likely shore duty will be nuke pipeline staff (this is probably the preferred job from the options I understand are currently available)?

Is there any difference for a nub on a sub between being MM3 and MM2 when the promotion is expected before qualifying (is nub the biggest factor, not rank)?

Before someone explains it to me, I understand assuming and the Navy are not necessarily compatible and I do understand about "needs of the Navy."

[Fermi2]

Isn't there a Command Master Chief or Career Adviser whose job it is to explain this stuff to you?

[TJ Nuke]

I thought before you went to see the recruiter you were supposed to already know that you could only count on what the Navy communicated to you in writing which was signed.  And then, only if it was still in the best interests of the Navy.

I was looking for unbiased, experienced second opinions.

[Fermi2]

Then why not just see what the recruiter says or at least try the search function?
Then ask.

[deltarho]

Your desired accomplishments will be the spoon full of sugar to help the medicine go down...

Nothing is ever as it seems--sometimes.  You may lay out the best intended plans, find out later the rules changed.

For example, while at NFAS, normally a 39 month billet back in my day, several tubers around me had their tours shrunk to 17 or 18 months and sent back out to the fleet. This in the name of staggering openings caused by the startup of the school. The detailers didn't appreciate having mass transfers and fills happening at the same time because the initial manning was done in mass.

Every fork-in-the-road decision should be about meeting your goals. If you expect to not have a life during your service, then you will never be disappointed. Pursue the opportunities and goals you set out for yourself.

The two posts above me are absolutely what I wish I said in addition to what I said...or was trying to "said".  I would give them some of my Karma...