shift schedule

[drnuke]

I am an NLO and we are trying to come up with some different schedule's for next year. We have had a vote and as it stands now it'll be an 8 hour one. We are currently working 12s. I'm just wondering what everyone else works.

Our current schedule is (with 5 crews):

T_M T_T T_W T_T O_F O_S O_S D_M D_T D_W D_T O_F O_S O_S O_M O_T O_W O_T N_F N_S N_S N_M O_T O_W O_T D_F D_S D_S O_M N_T N_W N_T O_F O_S O_S

[retread]

I am an NLO and we are trying to come up with some different schedule's for next year. We have had a vote and as it stands now it'll be an 8 hour one. We are currently working 12s. I'm just wondering what everyone else works.

Our current schedule is (with 5 crews):

T_M T_T T_W T_T O_F O_S O_S D_M D_T D_W D_T O_F O_S O_S O_M O_T O_W O_T N_F N_S N_S N_M O_T O_W O_T D_F D_S D_S O_M N_T N_W N_T O_F O_S O_S

Seems like a pretty good schedule to me.  At least they seem to be thinking about your ability to sleep.  They seem to care about your ability to crash without alcoholic "help".  I'm all for that!!

[HydroDave63]

It is pointless to list your current 12 hour schedule, if you are going to 8s. Most successful 8-hour schedules (oxymoron there) involve some variation on 10-hour training days to get an extra off day, from the baseline 10 shifts worked (to achieve 80 hours worked) and 4 days off within a 2 week period.

8s...my goodness, you can get a better rotation with more rest back on a CVN. Why did ANYone not vote for 12s?

[drnuke]

true our current schedule isn't bad. however our contract is so vague about 12 hour shifts and the company uses it to their advantage. I have no idea if a 5 crew 8 hour schedule would work with the current fatigue rules. I just wanted to see what other plants work.

[HydroDave63]

I've heard 12 hour rotations are solid, but I know we also save money by not being on them.

I'm not sure who is saving any money here. The 24/7/365 watchbill can be covered by fewer FTEs on 12s. Depending on your state laws and collective bargaining agreement, 12s might create more scheduled overtime. Looking at the Big Picture, the total benefits package to the additional bodies for 8s usually adds up to more than the OT in pockets of the fewer FTEs on 12s.  Most of the time the people pushing for 8s either a) haven't experienced 12s and it is fear of the unknown, b) management types or c) people hoping to someday be management by toeing the Party line.

[Fermi2]

Your company makes money on 12s.

[Already Gone]

Short-sightedness usually wins.  A 12-hour shift schedule invariably requires scheduled OT.  Averaging weeks is not legal for non-exempt employees in the private sector.  So, somebody somewhere is going to have to work more than 40 hours in a week to cover a 12 hour rotation.

But an 8 hour rotation simply cannot be done with fewer than six shifts.  You can write one on paper that uses five shifts without overtime, but it won't work in the real world.  You need six at least.

Naturally, a little built-in OT is much cheaper than increasing your full-time workforce by 20%.  BUT, OT gets tracked and managers get hammered for it, while a bloated staff on straight time doesn't draw the same negative attention.

Here's a sample of an 8 hour rotation that assumes no scheduled overtime, and a pay week of Mon-Sun.  If your pay week is different, you can adjust by starting your pay week where I have Monday.
Legend: 1=midnight to 8 am, 2 = 8 am to 4 pm, 3 = 4pm to midnight, A = first rest day (an off day that pays time and a half if you work it) B= second rest day (an off day that pays double time if you work) R=Relief shift(any shift may be worked that day, or work on days but not part of op shift) T= Training (which would be nice if you did 4-10's that week to get a 5 day weekend before starting the shift rotation)

Day         MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|
Shift - 1  AB33333 |33AB111  |1111AB2 |22222AB|ARRRR2B |TTTTTAB | 
Shift - 2  TTTTTAB  |AB33333  |33AB111 |1111AB2|22222AB |ARRRR2B|
Shift - 3  ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB   |AB33333 |33AB111 |1111AB2 |22222AB|
Shift - 4  22222AB |ARRRR2B |TTTTTAB  |AB33333 |33AB111 |1111AB2|
Shift - 5  1111AB2 |22222AB  |ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB  |AB33333 |33AB111|
Shift - 6  33AB111 |1111AB2  |22222AB |ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB  |AB33333|


BTW, the math isn't new.  It has been established long ago that you need a certain number of employees for each position to cover vacations, personal days, etc..  If you are covering 7 days a week, the factor is 1.7.  So, add it up.  You have 1 SM per shift.  There are three shifts per day   So, there are 3 SM's total per day.  3x1.7 = 5.1 Rounding off and adding 1 for Training means that you need at least 6 full shifts  to cover the week. 

For 12 hour shifts the math is the same.  You just have 2 shifts per day instead of 3.  So, the minimum number of shifts goes from 6 to 4.4.  Practically speaking, since you can't hire 0.4 shift managers, you really need 5 or there will be schedule problems.

Bottom line:  12's are better for everybody.

[drnuke]

Short-sightedness usually wins.  A 12-hour shift schedule invariably requires scheduled OT.  Averaging weeks is not legal for non-exempt employees in the private sector.  So, somebody somewhere is going to have to work more than 40 hours in a week to cover a 12 hour rotation.

But an 8 hour rotation simply cannot be done with fewer than six shifts.  You can write one on paper that uses five shifts without overtime, but it won't work in the real world.  You need six at least.

Naturally, a little built-in OT is much cheaper than increasing your full-time workforce by 20%.  BUT, OT gets tracked and managers get hammered for it, while a bloated staff on straight time doesn't draw the same negative attention.

Here's a sample of an 8 hour rotation that assumes no scheduled overtime, and a pay week of Mon-Sun.  If your pay week is different, you can adjust by starting your pay week where I have Monday.
Legend: 1=midnight to 8 am, 2 = 8 am to 4 pm, 3 = 4pm to midnight, A = first rest day (an off day that pays time and a half if you work it) B= second rest day (an off day that pays double time if you work) R=Relief shift(any shift may be worked that day, or work on days but not part of op shift) T= Training (which would be nice if you did 4-10's that week to get a 5 day weekend before starting the shift rotation)

Day         MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|MTWTFSS|
Shift - 1  AB33333 |33AB111  |1111AB2 |22222AB|ARRRR2B |TTTTTAB | 
Shift - 2  TTTTTAB  |AB33333  |33AB111 |1111AB2|22222AB |ARRRR2B|
Shift - 3  ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB   |AB33333 |33AB111 |1111AB2 |22222AB|
Shift - 4  22222AB |ARRRR2B |TTTTTAB  |AB33333 |33AB111 |1111AB2|
Shift - 5  1111AB2 |22222AB  |ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB  |AB33333 |33AB111|
Shift - 6  33AB111 |1111AB2  |22222AB |ARRRR2B|TTTTTAB  |AB33333|


BTW, the math isn't new.  It has been established long ago that you need a certain number of employees for each position to cover vacations, personal days, etc..  If you are covering 7 days a week, the factor is 1.7.  So, add it up.  You have 1 SM per shift.  There are three shifts per day   So, there are 3 SM's total per day.  3x1.7 = 5.1 Rounding off and adding 1 for Training means that you need at least 6 full shifts  to cover the week. 

For 12 hour shifts the math is the same.  You just have 2 shifts per day instead of 3.  So, the minimum number of shifts goes from 6 to 4.4.  Practically speaking, since you can't hire 0.4 shift managers, you really need 5 or there will be schedule problems.

Bottom line:  12's are better for everybody.

Thanks for the example. You said 8s w/ no scheduled OT can't be done with less than 6 crews. What about with scheduled OT, could it work with 5 crews?

[bdhoe]

As a NLO as well, why would you even vote on getting off 12's? you get OT on all 4 days in a row..sure some pay checks are lighter and some are fatter..just learn to budget..my rotation is slightly diffrent but pretty much work 18 days out of 35..cant beat it..plus covering people for OT gotta love that and holidays(which would cost the company more in the end if 3 shifts had them.. )

[Sun Dog]

For jobs that require a 24/7 presence I always like the 6/9 (that is 6 days on and 3 days off working 8's)schedule the best.  Working 8's for 6 on is nothing, 3 off in a row is really nice!  Compared to a standard 40 hr/week schedule (5/8 or 4/10) we got an extra 24 hours off about every 2 months.

[Already Gone]

Thanks for the example. You said 8s w/ no scheduled OT can't be done with less than 6 crews. What about with scheduled OT, could it work with 5 crews?

Yes,
Take out the Relief Week.  Work the Saturday Dayshift on OT during Dayshift week.  Work the Training Week as 4-10's starting on Tuesday.  This leaves you with nobody to cover for vacations, etc. other than people swapping shifts or working them during training.
While this is possible, it isn't practical.  You aren't actually covering a three-shift schedule.  You are covering a three-shift-plus-training schedule.
Remember also that weekends are at the end of the week for a reason.  Having two days off every week is not the same thing as weekends off.  With six crews, you only get two full weekends off out of six.  You get part of a weekend two out of six weeks.  If you go to five crews, it gets worse.  If you work shifts you know that a long weekend is not such a great deal if most or all of your days off are during the week.  Can't take the kids on a trip if they are in school while you have a long "weekend".  You can't get your family to have their reunion on Wednesday to accommodate your work schedule.
If you go on 8's you are going to have to work 3 Saturdays and 3 Sundays every rotation.  Do you really want to go from working half of them to 60% of them?  Your life will suck.

[Bonds 25]

I am an NLO and we are trying to come up with some different schedule's for next year. We have had a vote and as it stands now it'll be an 8 hour one. We are currently working 12s. I'm just wondering what everyone else works.

Our current schedule is (with 5 crews):

T_M T_T T_W T_T O_F O_S O_S D_M D_T D_W D_T O_F O_S O_S O_M O_T O_W O_T N_F N_S N_S N_M O_T O_W O_T D_F D_S D_S O_M N_T N_W N_T O_F O_S O_S

Man I SO WISH we were coming off our (4) Days going into long change.....instead we come off our (4) Nights and it ruins the first 3 days of long change.

[Irish_Wertzy]

Bonds-

Which site is that for?

I just completed the BMST, Interview and Assessment Center for a possible SRO job at Peach Bottom, and am trying to figure out what the shift rotation would look like.

Seems very similar to what they mentioned.

If any PB SRO's on here, is this what you do?

[Smooth Operator]

Pretty sure Peach is on 12s...

[Irish_Wertzy]

In the training week, is it also 12's? or do they shift to 10's?

Just curious, not worried about the number of total hours, just trying to figure how to explain it to the wife.

[499tarheel]

Usually 4 x 10's.

Some places do 5 x 8's.
5 x 8's suck. 

[mwdavis]

For the plants on 12's what are the usual shift change times? The plant I'm at now goes 6:00 to 6:00. I've done 12 to 12 and that isn't a lot of fun.

[Bleyse]

At WBN we swap at 7. 

[Bonds 25]

Bonds-

Which site is that for?

I just completed the BMST, Interview and Assessment Center for a possible SRO job at Peach Bottom, and am trying to figure out what the shift rotation would look like.

Seems very similar to what they mentioned.

If any PB SRO's on here, is this what you do?

Columbia Generating Station in Washington State.....and Im an HP, but Operations follow the same schedule.

[Bonds 25]

For the plants on 12's what are the usual shift change times? The plant I'm at now goes 6:00 to 6:00. I've done 12 to 12 and that isn't a lot of fun.

We work 6 to 6....and yeah, getting up at 3:50am for work is pretty tough.

[HydroDave63]

We work 6 to 6....and yeah, getting up at 3:50am for work is pretty tough.

But luckily traffic is never backed up on the 240

[mwdavis]

We work 6 to 6....and yeah, getting up at 3:50am for work is pretty tough.

But the 7 off makes up for it.

[Bonds 25]

But luckily traffic is never backed up on the 240

Very true.....our Dayshift guys work 6am-4pm and getting out at 4pm is pretty bad but doesnt compare to getting out at 430pm.  That extra 30 min makes for a 30-45 min longer ride home.  Im also convinced the majority of drivers out here believe the fast lane is actually the slow lane....nothing gets my blood flowing like vehicles in the fast lane (real) going 54 mph 

[Bonds 25]

But the 7 off makes up for it.

Also working 26 days out of 42 makes up for it 

[Fermi2]

Very true.....our Dayshift guys work 6am-4pm and getting out at 4pm is pretty bad but doesnt compare to getting out at 430pm.  That extra 30 min makes for a 30-45 min longer ride home.  Im also convinced the majority of drivers out here believe the fast lane is actually the slow lane....nothing gets my blood flowing like vehicles in the fast lane (real) going 54 mph 

In my world the speed limit is the low deck!