Women on submarines

[Yaeger]

At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm just after some answers.

Here's a quote from Elaine Donnelly, in a report to the Pentagon in 2007 who is contracted to oversea gender issues for the military.

"A plan to assign female sailors and officers only to larger Trident submarines (SSBNs, also known as "boomers") would create an unacceptable two-tiered officer community: one group that can serve
on any submarine, and another that can only be assigned to Tridents.

Without the opportunity to assign sailors to both types of submarines, in order to broaden experience in each, it would become increasingly difficult to maintain a properly balanced and experienced officer community.

This would disadvantage women in any fair selection process for command. Additionally, assigning women only to the larger Trident subs would create a perceived inequity within the community."

I've always hated creating double standards in any community. It creates resentment, inequality, and hurt feelings. Already men and women that serve in the military have two different standards, but I'm asking why do we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot?

I'm all for equality, I think that anyone can serve in any position they qualify for, just don't give us two different standards for people trying to do the same job.

I have faith that the nuclear pipeline won't accelerate training like the aviation community did in the mid-90's which led to some preventable accidents. Do you think we'll see the same type of accidents brought on by rushed training/promotions brought on by political pressure once they reach the fleet?

Does the civilian nuclear community have the same "Double Standards" based on gender? Do you guys foresee this having a negative impact on the submarine fleet?

[Yaeger]

We more that one-upped you.  We have standards for hes, shes, shes who want to be hes, and hes who want to be shes.

That's a lot of different standards. Do the requirements to hire change with the respective category?

[Sun Dog]

That's a lot of different standards. Do the requirements to hire change with the respective category?

There are no official biases one way or the other when it comes to hiring.  Having double (or triple) standards would be illegal.  Like the scales of justice, HR is blind.

[JsonD13]

I definetly see a problem with it in the sub fleet (not that I was a submariner, though).  The problem could come from the men being jealous of the women since they can only have the more "cushy" boomer asignments versus fast attacks.

But then again, like you said, nothing new.  PRT (performance, not weight/BF) standards have been different for many years.

Jason

[Marlin]

I definetly see a problem with it in the sub fleet (not that I was a submariner, though).  The problem could come from the men being jealous of the women since they can only have the more "cushy" boomer asignments versus fast attacks.

But then again, like you said, nothing new.  PRT (performance, not weight/BF) standards have been different for many years.

Jason

Jealous? Irrate and indignate may be the right term. When women were first introduced into the Nuclear Propulsion program they were not allowed on any warship so they took up shore billets forcing some men to take longer Sea-Shore rotations, they weren't jealous they were mad. Apparently it's only fair if its PC and hateful if you expect equal treatment.

There is no way to make this change and be fair so you will have to expect some of those who get set aside to be angry. But that is just the way it is, and to denigrate those set aside to make up for past inequalities they had nothing to do with is a bit small minded, especially if you are not one of the ones who will have to pay that price.

[retired nuke]

Well, here it comes, ready or not boys....

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/22/women-to-begin-serving-on-u-s-submarines/?hpt=Sbin

[Fermi2]

It's about time.

[retired nuke]

It's about time.

Yep.

[JsonD13]

Some might consider getting back in if they really looked like that.

But then again I would have to ask permission, and she would say NO!

[Styrofoam]

Some might consider getting back in if they really looked like that.

But then again I would have to ask permission, and she would say NO!

It doesn't mean you're ugly; it means she's smart. 

[JsonD13]

I am not talking about asking the girl in the picture permission, I was referring to my wife.

So in a sense, youre right.

[DLGN25]

Will this be in store for all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ttd48u0J0&feature=player_detailpage

[HydroDave63]

Will this be in store for all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ttd48u0J0&feature=player_detailpage

Lots of torpedoing, anyhow 

[MacGyver]

Lots of torpedoing, anyhow  

Aye Aye .... Captain!

"Polishing the Old Torpedo Sir?" (quote at 2:42)

[Cycoticpenguin]

Women do not need to be on subs. The cost/benefit ratio doesnt compute. Maybe an ALL woman sub, but definitely NOT a coed one.

Human nature prevails, only a matter of time before the pregnancies and rape accusations begin to trickle in for the problems to become evident.

Now, perhaps a couple officers (akin to down periscope, but obviously a little more respectful) on a sub would be ok (A doctor or supply officer), but I just dont see the benefit of having coed submarines. Sexist? If thats what it has to be O.o

[JustinHEMI05]

Women SHOULD be on submarines.... when they build a class specifically designed to house a coed crew.

I like the plan now... test the waters with officers.

They should NOT waste time or money reconfiguring the current classes for women (fast attacks that is).

[Cycoticpenguin]

Women SHOULD be on submarines.... when they build a class specifically designed to house a coed crew.

I like the plan now... test the waters with officers.

They should NOT waste time or money reconfiguring the current classes for women (fast attacks that is).

I was never on a submarine, how feasible is it to "build in" a separate berthing for women blue shirts?

[andrewnavy]

I was never on a submarine, how feasible is it to "build in" a separate berthing for women blue shirts?

Not worth the time or mountains of money.

[JustinHEMI05]

I was never on a submarine, how feasible is it to "build in" a separate berthing for women blue shirts?

It isn't feasible... IMO. I agree, not worth the time or money.

[playswithairplanes]

I had an 'er... um' moment with this topic about 3 weeks ago. My 5 year old daughter was looking at my shadow box and asked about my dolphins. I explained what they were, and how I got them. She then says, I want to be on a submarine too daddy...

Yea... er... um... yea, honey. /sigh

[HydroDave63]

I had an 'er... um' moment with this topic about 3 weeks ago. My 5 year old daughter was looking at my shadow box and asked about my dolphins. I explained what they were, and how I got them. She then says, I want to be on a submarine too daddy...

Yea... er... um... yea, honey. /sigh

Convert the 102 Spec Ops bunks into 40 female berths, 6 commodes, 12 shower, 2 huge honkin' make-up mirrors and a modest Day Spa, and you are there!

[Cycoticpenguin]

I had an 'er... um' moment with this topic about 3 weeks ago. My 5 year old daughter was looking at my shadow box and asked about my dolphins. I explained what they were, and how I got them. She then says, I want to be on a submarine too daddy...

Yea... er... um... yea, honey. /sigh

Time for some tough love buddy haha

[Smooth Operator]

Convert the 102 Spec Ops bunks into 40 female berths, 6 commodes, 12 shower, 2 huge honkin' make-up mirrors and a modest Day Spa, and you are there!

I would not put it past that our politically correct knee jerk government would sacrifice the mission of fast attacks just to get females on board.

[HydroDave63]

I would not put it past that our politically correct knee jerk government would sacrifice the mission of fast attacks just to get females on board.

More like a 12,000 ton 20-knot capable "slow approach", but with 4 dedicated Twitter and Facebook terminals, and small gift shop just forward of the NFO tank (gotta be able to buy some Febreeze for the bunks when you run out!) it would be such a party! Just watch your step, so you don't slip on all the stuffed unicorns on the deck from angles-n-dangles 

[Cycoticpenguin]

More like a 12,000 ton 20-knot capable "slow approach", but with 4 dedicated Twitter and Facebook terminals, and small gift shop just forward of the NFO tank (gotta be able to buy some Febreeze for the bunks when you run out!) it would be such a party! Just watch your step, so you don't slip on all the stuffed unicorns on the deck from angles-n-dangles 

If thats not sexist I dont know what is You clearly werent on a carrier either