Spent Reactor Fuel Risk Greater in U.S. Than Japan

[DJ@Retired]

I've been saying for year's are spent fuel pools are the biggest risk for release then anything else we have. Check out this report.
The threat of a catastrophic release of radioactive materials from a spent fuel pool at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi plant is dwarfed by the risk posed by such pools in the United States,


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/energy-environment/25nuke.html

[Marlin]

Next round of backfits for US reactors?

[Cycoticpenguin]

delicious propaganda. More VY news hatred. Ambiguous article doesnt take into account the numerous design features built in to protect the pools, etc etc. Yes, when we under go a 9 richter scale earthquake and massive tsunami with substantial after shocks at vermont yankee, we have reason for concern. 

DJ, how does transfering to caskets mitigate the risk?

[Matthew B]

The fuel assemblies that create the greatest risk in the SFP are too hot to put into casks anyways.

It might help a little if something happens that causes great damage to the SFP just by reducing the total heat load.  But if something that bad happens the difference is minor.

[Cycoticpenguin]

The fuel assemblies that create the greatest risk in the SFP are too hot to put into casks anyways.

It might help a little if something happens that causes great damage to the SFP just by reducing the total heat load.  But if something that bad happens the difference is minor.

We should just get rid of spent fuel all together, no more problems :p

[retired nuke]

I've been saying for year's are spent fuel pools are the biggest risk for release then anything else we have. Check out this report.
The threat of a catastrophic release of radioactive materials from a spent fuel pool at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi plant is dwarfed by the risk posed by such pools in the United States,


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/business/energy-environment/25nuke.html

DJ, this report is by an anti-nuke group (see the About Us tab on their web page). They specialize in dramatizing the ills of society and pursuing a very liberal agenda.

But it does make some good points between the rows of bull$h!t. We shoulda never quit reprocessing... Carter was a candya$$. Having spent fuel in casks is good source term reduction - reduces buildup in the SFP cooling and demin system.
Their conclusions are pretty good - their reasoning to get there is a bit over the top.

[Cycoticpenguin]

oh my lord...

http://www.ips-dc.org/pressroom/spent_fuel_advisory_05-23-2011

[DJ@Retired]

delicious propaganda. More VY news hatred. Ambiguous article doesn't take into account the numerous design features built in to protect the pools, etc etc. Yes, when we under go a 9 Richter scale earthquake and massive tsunami with substantial after shocks at Vermont Yankee, we have reason for concern. 

DJ, how does transferring to caskets mitigate the risk?

How about building a better fuel building. One with a containment building instead of a leaky tin roof.

[Cycoticpenguin]

How about building a better fuel building. One with a containment building instead of a leaky tin roof.

Cost benefit ratio applies here. Perhaps including fuel pools inside containments in the future, but we're not discussing future plantes, we're talking about right here, right now. That said, you still didnt answer my question.

[Matthew B]

How about building a better fuel building. One with a containment building instead of a leaky tin roof.

I think we wait until the solid aftermath reports are in from Japan.  There is crap in the pools from all of the violent damage done to the buildings.  What is NOT clear is if the fuel in the pools caused any of the release.

On top of that, the damage that did occur wasn't because of the "weakness" of the buildings, it is the fact that the buildings were full of H2.  Just making the building tougher means that the BOOM is louder when the H2 goes off.  What we've got to do is make sure that the buildings don't fill with H2.

[Cycoticpenguin]

  What we've got to do is make sure that the buildings don't fill with H2.

we've already fixed that issue.....

[Higgs]

Maybe the government will fulfill its obligation and open Yucca Mtn. I know that doesn't eliminate the need for spent fuel pools, but it will certainly reduce the load in the pools.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Maybe the government will fulfill its obligation and open Yucca Mtn. I know that doesn't eliminate the need for spent fuel pools, but it will certainly reduce the load in the pools.

But then trans continental transportation will be a security/terrorist thread...

I've learned with these people, if its not one thing, its the other .

[matthew.b]

we've already fixed that issue.....

Well, this is another wait for the after reports from Japan:  Did they have the hard vent mod?

If they didn't then we wave our hands and say not a problem over here.  If they did, then we've got to make sure whatever they did won't happen over here.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Well, this is another wait for the after reports from Japan:  Did they have the hard vent mod?

If they didn't then we wave our hands and say not a problem over here.  If they did, then we've got to make sure whatever they did won't happen over here.

TEPCO =/= NRC standards.

how many gen 4 mk 1 plants do we even have running any more?

edit: they didnt.

[MacGyver]

TEPCO =/= NRC standards.

how many gen 4 mk 1 plants do we even have running any more?

edit: they didnt.

I can think of a few.

Try this link and scroll on down to the list.

[Cycoticpenguin]

looked over a bunch of those thanks.

found a pretty cool picture!!

[tr]

id they have the hard vent mod?

My understanding is that they have the hardened vent, but they required high level government approval to vent, which delayed things significantly.  Here, any decisions to vent would rest with the Shift Manager.  One theory I saw was that hydrogen collected in the secondary due to leakage from the primary containment due to it sitting at for an extended time at twice design pressure.

Other stores have said Unit 4 blew up due to hydrogen back flow from the venting of Unit 3.

[cypher89]

SFP are being scapegoated since pictures and video have shown that they are all full of water.  Which would prevent fuel damage in itself.  There is a lot of debris in the pool due to earthquake and H2 explosions.  The H2 exposions seem to have been made worse by the design of leaving the SGT valves aligned to secondary containment open when venting primary containment.  Also units 1-4 seem to share common stacks from the photos I see only 2 stacks for 4 units and this would explain why venting from one caused H2 in another unit.

[Protectologist]

Navy shipyards have defueled for decades without the use of the SFP. Is the next step to defuel straight to dry cask storage?

[jjack50]

Navy shipyards have defueled for decades without the use of the SFP. Is the next step to defuel straight to dry cask storage?

No. You can't defuel to dry storage. The heat loading from decay is too great. The bundles must be cooled for a minimum of a year before transfer to dry storage. That still leaves you with hot casks but not too hot to deal with.

[OldHP]

Navy shipyards have defueled for decades without the use of the SFP. Is the next step to defuel straight to dry cask storage? 

The M-130 and dry storage casks are two different beasts!  Even the NNPP fuel went into pools once arriving in ID.

[matthew.b]

Also units 1-4 seem to share common stacks from the photos I see only 2 stacks for 4 units and this would explain why venting from one caused H2 in another unit.

They have one shared pipe per two units.

Fukushima Daini has a single stack for all four units, but each unit has it's own pipe up to the end.

[xynergy]

Since I have negative karma, I might as well just continue down the path ...

I just love it when 'all knowing' HPs spout their expertise when it comes to a very complicated and technical issue such as the management of spent nuclear fuel.

To set the receord straight, each canister vendor has specific technical specification limits on both the fuel assembly individual thermal and total thermal heat load in a specific canister.  Also damaged fuel puts further restrictions on the canister.

For the most part, recently discharged spent fuel has to cool a minimum of five (5) years before it can even be considered to be loaded into a canister.  And if a utility really wants to load this thermally 'hot' fuel it must 'mix' it with 'cold' fuel to ensure that the total kW load for the canister design is not exceded.  So to put it mildly, the majority of the SFPs will not be emptied in the very near future.  There are also some logistical issues such as licensing, NRC approval, limited fabrication, cost, etc that due impact going all dry.

Something else that should be known, Oak Ridge did a study a few backs that concluded that if the equivalent of 16,000 (yes, 16,000) fuel assemblies, not fuel rods were 'shattered' after having cooled in a SFP for at least six (6) months, that the dose to the public at the site perimeter would be negligible.  In other words old cold fuel is not that big a problem.  Fukushima 1, 2 & 3, had recently dumped hot fuel into the SFP and that is the real reason that they had an issue with SFP cooling.

FInally, there is also the issue of the infamous zirc fire.  Again, this is not as significant an issue as the press makes it to be.  Studies were done for a number of the D&D units in the northeast, and it was not a major problem.

Latly, during the Millstone Unit 1 'aborted' D&D, a test was done of the SFP to determine if all SFP cooling were lost would the SFP 'boil'.  The answer was NO.  All cooling was shut off and the it was concluded that the temperature in the SFPS would not rise even during the hot and humid Connecticut summers.

[RAD-GHOST]

You have negative karma 'cause your an ass, not because you do not know what you are talking about.

Is there still time to vote........

RG