Exelon may shut down nuclear plants in profit struggle

[Marlin]

Without loan guarantees and Price Anderson nukes wouldn't make it.

No Debate there.

[Marlin]

I said start new construction today. Those units are already in progress.

Justin

OK but they did get a loan guarantee. 

[GLW]

No Debate there.

this moment comes along about as often as Comet Lovejoy, which has also made it's appearance this season, and will soon be only a vague and far away memory,....




http://spacefellowship.com/news/art37292/comet-lovejoy-over-the-great-wall.html

[Marlin]

this moment comes along about as often as Comet Lovejoy, which has also made it's appearance this season, and will soon be only a vague and far away memory,....

[HeavyD]

We (VC Summer) said "No, thank you." to the DOE's loan guarantee offer.

As far as other new nukes, we've had some discussions with some guys at other utilities.  Duke, for one, is still moving along with their COLAs for both Lee, here in SC, and Levy County, in FL.

Yes, they did cancel their EPC with WEC for Levy County.  That was a financial decision to keep from paying an annual fee for something they weren't using.  Lee had its FEIS approved recently by the NRC.  The NRC also informed Duke that a final decision for Lee's COLA will be made sometime in 2016.

We also realize the entire industry, including some international utilities, are watching us and Vogtle to see how the 2 projects go.  Currently, we remain on budget, as we have reported to the PSC and in our quarterly earnings call outs with investors and Wall Street.

[HalfHazzard]

Add continued subsidies to green energy that may or may not work like the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating Station, similar designed facilities are being canceled.

http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2014/02/19/largest-solar-thermal-plant-completed-ivanpah

Completely agree, this and the other plants powered by hope are a total scam.  And you're totally right, there's a possibility of recovering costs over 20-40 years for a nuke.  I'd donate my money to a nuke before a hot air plant because I know my lights will turn on when I flip the switch.

[Fermi2]

I am not saying other industries are not subsidized but fact is nuclear is just as heavily subsidized as other power producing industries. Duke will never build another nuke. The 4 new plants plus Watts Bar are the last 5 you will ever see in this country and in the end all will be over budget and if more than 3 including the Bar start up I will be surprised.

I know the ops manager at a solar mirror facility and he says it works like a charm.

[Marlin]

I am not saying other industries are not subsidized but fact is nuclear is just as heavily subsidized as other power producing industries. Duke will never build another nuke. The 4 new plants plus Watts Bar are the last 5 you will ever see in this country and in the end all will be over budget and if more than 3 including the Bar start up I will be surprised.

I know the ops manager at a solar mirror facility and he says it works like a charm.

Solar mirror facilities have a darker future than nuclear, it may work technically but has to many other issues reference my previous post.

    Add continued subsidies to green energy that may or may not work like the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating Station, similar designed facilities are being canceled.


http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2014/02/19/largest-solar-thermal-plant-completed-ivanpah

[Marlin]

This was in the Nukeworker.com news feed but I thought it would fit well in this thread so before it scrolled off the bottom here it is.

Despite New Plants, Nuclear Future Still Decades Away

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/02/21/energy-dept-backs-new-nuke-plants-but-nuclear-future-still-decades-away

[HydroDave63]

Solar mirror facilities have a darker future than nuclear, it may work technically but has to many other issues reference my previous post.

Many issues yes, but if the right oligarchs are the investors, then the EIS will get watered down and the plant will get built. Melted feathers, extincted tortoises....nothing to see here, move along now 

[Marlin]

nothing to see here, move along now  

Your Jedi mind tricks will not work on me.

[radbrat]

Hey....Nice selfie!!!

[Marlin]

Hey....Nice selfie!!!

I was having a good hair day, hard to see it in the picture though.  

[HydroDave63]

Another report keeping hope doom alive...

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/illinois-study-lays-out-options-alternatives-for-exelon-nuclear-plants/350636/

[Content1]

I applied for and received my California Teaching Credential.  Time to abandon this sinking ship.  While I left teaching back in 2003 because the nuclear wages were relatively high, teacher salaries rose by a couple a percent per year while nuke wages stayed flat.  With the closure of all these plants, we will flood the labor market with nuke workers, further suppressing wages.  Isn't the free market a good thing?  Sounds like the real future is natural gas plants.  It was a good ride, and thanks for the fish.

[GLW]

I applied for and received my California Teaching Credential.  Time to abandon this sinking ship.  While I left teaching back in 2003 because the nuclear wages were relatively high, teacher salaries rose by a couple a percent per year while nuke wages stayed flat.  With the closure of all these plants, we will flood the labor market with nuke workers, further suppressing wages.  Isn't the free market a good thing?  Sounds like the real future is natural gas plants.  It was a good ride, and thanks for the fish.

PM back which one. There are a couple dozen varieties and endorsedments on the credential's theme.

[Content1]

PM back which one. There are a couple dozen varieties and endorsedments on the credential's theme.

Mine is English and Multiple Subjects (K-9).  I will go for the least popular locations, like I did in the Outage sites.  There is plenty of competition among the degreed.

[Chimera]

Another report keeping hope doom alive...

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/illinois-study-lays-out-options-alternatives-for-exelon-nuclear-plants/350636/

That is a rather interesting report.  As I read it, the State of Illinois commissioned a report that says they are making too much electricity and Exelon says they have three nuke plants that aren't currently competitive with coal plants.  Except that the federal EPA, with its carbon tax mind-set, is trying to destroy the coal industry.  But that's okay, says the State of Illinois, because they can always buy power from somewhere else.  Except that all those coal-fired plants are in jeopardy from the EPA and you would need the land area of Texas to build enough wind farms and solar generating "plants" to replace the base-load plants that our federal and state governments want to shut down.  Perhaps these "public servants" need to brush up on the history of Argentina and how that government managed to destroy an otherwise perfectly sound economy.

[Rennhack]

the history of Argentina and how that government managed to destroy an otherwise perfectly sound economy.

Energy policy isn't what got Argentina into trouble.  It was the Macro inflation when they uncoupled form the US dollar. -- At least that's what they told us when we were their for our ProMBA class trip.  But what do 10 different sets of Argentina business executives know.  I'm sure you are smarter then the people that lived through it.

[HydroDave63]

That is a rather interesting report.  As I read it, the State of Illinois commissioned a report that says they are making too much electricity and Exelon says they have three nuke plants that aren't currently competitive with coal plants.  Except that the federal EPA, with its carbon tax mind-set, is trying to destroy the coal industry. 

I agree. The Illinois report seems to be using the hammer-and-anvil (simplified Hegelian dialectic) approach to hem in nuclear, using cheap coal as the anvil (although as you point out coal is the next intended victim, as illustrated by their 'The Way Forward' options on page 2, most of which involve Crap-and-Trade of carbon credits in a carbon exchange market), and the proposed HVDC line delivering KS/OK wind power through Illinois (top of page 9) as the hammer. So, in the 2016 projections, they make the case that the plants are too expensive as compared to electricity prices. To be honest, Fixed O&M costs are what is supporting that view, as seen on page 32. Look at the guy on your left, now look at the guy on your right. Two of you are Fixed O&M costs.

For the Cliff's Notes synopsis, skip to page 56. Those results come from the comparisons of Fixed O&M costs vs. LMP costs due to transmission congestion, and possible future changes in natgas prices.

On a positive note, check out the chart on page 42. Even by the Commission's own forecasts, electricity prices escalate continuously past 2016, so any plant surviving past then is in a good position to stay profitable.

[Chimera]

Energy policy isn't what got Argentina into trouble.  It was the Macro inflation when they uncoupled form the US dollar. -- At least that's what they told us when we were their for our ProMBA class trip.  But what do 10 different sets of Argentina business executives know.  I'm sure you are smarter then the people that lived through it.

No disagreement.  I was referring to the overarching control by government of which Argentina is an excellent example.

[Rennhack]

No disagreement.

That's no fun!