NEC Admin Issue, any advice?

[Tylor]

So I have a pretty unique situation, from what I've come accross, and it's giving me headaches trying to get my instructor NEC from the s8g prototype.

So I was one of the top in my class, but wasn't initially selected to be an instructor from my graduating class. Instead I stayed at NPTU after graduation, because I was on hold awaiting the results of my STA-21 package. My hold period was going to be about 8 months, so I chose to help support the watchbill, and I qualified as an S8G instructor. I went to Basic Instructor Training school, qualified as an instructor, went in to maintenance quals and more senior quals after graduating, and was eventually told by both my plant master chief and plant executive officer that since I had already been an instructor for months, that if I was not selected for STA-21, that I would be staying at S8g prototype as an instructor.

A few more months down the road, I am not selected for STA-21, but I wasn't upset, I loved my job and was excited to finish off a SPU tour at S8G. What happened instead is that I was told there were no billets for electrician instructors available, and that I had a week to check out of the command and report to my boat. I had already reenlisted because I was told I had to reenlist for my SPU tour, but I assumed since I had gone through all that extra work to support my division I assumed that at the very least I would have qualified for an instructor NEC, which is very useful for people like me, who want to continue being an instructor on my next shore duty.

That leads me to my issue after getting to my boat I realized I was not given my 9502 (instructor NEC) and when I called admin and the CCC for s8g prototype, I was basically accused of trying to work the system and told that since I wasn't given orders to S8G that I was not eligible for an instructor NEC.

Is my CCC right and I just wasted 8 months of my life working my ass off to support a watchbill, or is there something I can do? Also if I was never qualified to be an instructor, what about the hundreds of students who's qualifications I signed? If anyone can actually get my in contact with anyone from the S8g chain of command, I would appreciate it, I have limited resources from my boat and a high OPTEMPO hasn't made it easier. I've only been able to contact the admin office and CCC so far.

Thanks for your time, and I appreciate any responses.

[Rerun]

Needs of the Navy. Get everything in writing. Consider it a lessons learned.

[Druid]

Needs of the Navy. Get everything in writing. Consider it a lessons learned.

Exactly.

I'm assuming that you still get a transfer eval when you change commands. Does it say on your eval that you successfully completed BIT and the various quals? If not, then it didn't happen. I stayed on at NNPS as Staff Admin for 5 months back in '86 and my transfer eval accurately reflected what I accomplished during that time. (Not that I ever considered the possibility of failing out of prototype and cross-rating to a Personnelman)

Druid

[DDMurray]

Sure this is not what you want to hear but you still delayed 8 months in leaving prototype and "working your butt off" to support a watchbill is never a waste of time.  When I was a student at NPTU I was told that I had been selected for SPU after being told to put in a package.  I was issued staff qual cards and started standing U/I watches at shutdown watchstations.  I was at NY renting a place with my pregnant wife.  My landlord wintered in Florida and he flew back to draft us a new lease for our rental.  On the day I was scheduled for my Plant Manager interview I was informed that my package for staff pick-up had been denied by NR due to the percentage of SPU's that were taking up staff billets.  I was pretty upset, but in the end it worked out for me.  I went to my first boat and ended up going to staff duty at NPS a year early because, as you say, I worked my butt off on my first boat.

As alluded to in the other posts, the facts are in your evals.  If it's not in your eval or Page 4 of your service record you will have a hard time proving it, especially since you've already left.  Best of Luck.

Derek

[GLW]

sometimes you get the good deal, sometimes the bad deal,...

sometimes both in one, it just depends on your perspective,...

check your PMs,...

[Tylor]

I appreciate the help, I do have all my quals in my transfer eval, so I'm glad to hear those will count for something.

GLW, I did read your PM and found it very helpful, thank you.

My main concern is that I want to be a NPS/NFAS instructor for my shore duty. Since its such a competitive billet to get I assumed that having an instructor NEC would put me above others going for the billet. (obviously alongside all the requirements to be an NNPTC insructor, EWS, LPO, etc)

[spekkio]

My main concern is that I want to be a NPS/NFAS instructor for my shore duty. Since its such a competitive billet to get I assumed that having an instructor NEC would put me above others going for the billet. (obviously alongside all the requirements to be an NNPTC insructor, EWS, LPO, etc)

If you are a 'due course' Sailor you will almost assuredly go to prototype for your first shore tour, regardless of what NEC you earn. You are expected to make chief by your second tour, and need to qualify and STAND EWS in order to do that.

http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/enlisted/community/nuclear/Documents/SSF%20Graphic.pdf

I'm sorry you got a bit of a 'raw deal' by re-enlisting on a verbal promise of a SPU tour... your leadership at prototype should have provided better guidance to you to manage your expectations that the SPU tour was not guaranteed. However, your effort isn't 'wasted' since your experience will help you get qualified more quickly on the boat.

Whatever you do, do NOT show up to the boat and tell everyone how the Navy screwed you. Put your head down, continue to work hard, and get qualified. When you are standing SRO on a midwatch one night 20 months from your report date, maybe then you can share your story.

[GLW]

....I'm sorry you got a bit of a 'raw deal' by re-enlisting on a verbal promise of a SPU tour...

not especially a raw deal, just one of those things where folks assumed the OP was adept at looking out for themselves based on past demonstrated performance, and then the Chiefs, XOs,  et al, dropped the ball on discerning the OPs perceptions,...

happens everywhere; USN, CIVLANT,...everywhere,....

as to the OP, Tylor could revisit this series of posts from 14 months ago:

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,38593.msg185897.html#msg185897

they are as relevant to his current scenario as they were then,...perhaps even more so now,...

good luck, if you like it: keep on reupping, the USN NNPP was the easiest job I have ever had,...

if you do not like it; EAOS will come,...EAOS will come,...   

[spekkio]

not especially a raw deal, just one of those things where folks assumed the OP was adept at looking out for themselves based on past demonstrated performance, and then the Chiefs, XOs,  et al, dropped the ball on discerning the OPs perceptions,...

happens everywhere; USN, CIVLANT,...everywhere,....

It's poor leadership, wherever/whenever it does happen.

[GLW]

It's poor leadership, wherever/whenever it does happen.

okay, since we're paring it down to absolutes: then it's USN poor leadership for this situation,...

your Navy, your Chiefs, your XOs,...

.... and was eventually told by both my plant master chief and plant executive officer that since I had already been an instructor for months, that if I was not selected for STA-21, that I would be staying at S8g prototype as an instructor....

[spekkio]

okay, since we're paring it down to absolutes: then it's USN poor leadership for this situation,...

your Navy, your Chiefs, your XOs,...

Glad we agree

[Rerun]

Never trust anyone wearing khaki. Remember that.

[GLW]

Glad we agree

we do not,...

from the absolute point of view that the blueshirt has no personal accountability to "trust but verify" the falsehoods his CPOs and Commissioned Officers will use to achieve their short term goal regardless of the blueshirt's perceptions is a Navy ethics issue,...

in CIVLANT & CIVPAC those precepts of institutional good motherhood or poor parenting do not apply,...

which is why the answering posts to the OP from those who have been there and dun that focus on lesson learned, get it in writing, stick to the written facts, trust but verify,...

because, out here, if you get rooked; you were ill prepared,...

if you do not like the deal before or after or sans the rook,....you walk,...

leadership?!?!?

it's innate, cannot be taught, if it could be taught then an MCPO and an XO would not have set up this blueshirt for distress,...

I am certain that MCPO and that XO have been to and through LOTS of fine Navy leadership training,...

and yet they failed,...

because leadership is innate,...

an absolute point of view,...

[Rerun]

Wait long ago I said essentially the same thing here and set off an epic string of rants.

[GLW]

Wait long ago I said essentially the same thing here and set off an epic string of rants.

yup you did,...

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26372.0.html

[Gamecock]

Never trust anyone wearing khaki. Remember that.

Everyone wears khakie these days....

Cheers,

GC

[GLW]

Everyone wears khakie these days....

Cheers,

GC

Zumwalt 2,...

It'll do,...

I've never liked the C Cap,...

[Rerun]

Everyone wears khakie these days....

Cheers,

GC

Lol dangit man!

[spekkio]

we do not,... in CIVLANT & CIVPAC those precepts of institutional good motherhood or poor parenting do not apply,...

It's not about motherhood or parenting. Do you think it's reasonable for junior personnel to know that their leadership has absolutely no power to keep him as a staff instructor? I don't. He hasn't been around long enough to know 'who's who in the zoo,' and one has to make a reasonable assumption at some point that if a person in his chain of command (or civilian management structure) makes a promise, then he has the authority to keep it.

Verbal agreements also have legal consequences outside of the military. If your boss misleads you in COMCIVLANT, you can at a minimum quit for greener pastures. If you can prove that he promised you compensation you did not receive, you can file for legal action. If you can prove a manager made a promise he can't possibly keep, which is the case here with the master chief and XO, that manager would be fired.

What happened to OP is the military equivalent of being told he is hired at a job... then after he moves all of his stuff to re-locate and start work on Monday, the hiring manager calls and says 'nevermind, we hired someone else... and by the way the person who interviewed you doesn't actually have the authority to even extend a job offer to you, but we're going to keep him around and promote him next year anyway. We're not sure how you even got his info, but you shouldn't try to work around our normal hiring processes.' That company would be in a heck of a lot of hot water.

There are aspects of leadership that are innate, there are aspects that can be taught. The acts of ensuring that your people walk away with realistic expectations and a full understanding of all possible outcomes fall in the latter category, and so does knowing the bounds of your authority.

[Rerun]

Wow so all the procedures I had to follow were "leadership". Who'd of thunk

[GLW]

....Verbal agreements also have legal consequences outside of the military. If your boss misleads you in COMCIVLANT, you can at a minimum quit for greener pastures. If you can prove that he promised you compensation you did not receive, you can file for legal action....

if it is not in writing,......no,....been there,...dun that,...

you can file for cheese from the moon, if it is not in writing, you will not get it,...

..........If you can prove a manager made a promise he can't possibly keep, which is the case here with the master chief and XO, that manager would be fired.......

not when he's the bosses kin,....been there,...dun that,...

and I am sure the MCPO and the XO (aka khaki kin) still have their jobs at NPTU,...

What happened to OP is the military equivalent of being told he is hired at a job... then after he moves all of his stuff to re-locate and start work on Monday, the hiring manager calls and says 'nevermind, we hired someone else... and by the way the person who interviewed you doesn't actually have the authority to even extend a job offer to you, but we're going to keep him around and promote him next year anyway. We're not sure how you even got his info, but you shouldn't try to work around our normal hiring processes.' That company would be in a heck of a lot of hot water....

if it is not in writing,...no,...been there,...dun that,....

....There are aspects of leadership that are innate, there are aspects that can be taught. The acts of ensuring that your people walk away with realistic expectations and a full understanding of all possible outcomes fall in the latter category, and so does knowing the bounds of your authority.....

leadership is innate, management is taught,...

the only singular message I take away from the oft quoted previous post is:

do not trust CPOs, SCPOs, MCPOs or Commissioned Officers,....get it in writing,... 'cause they lie,...

I did not begin with that perception, but I have been well schooled over the last few rebuttals and teachable moments,...

[spekkio]

if it is not in writing,......no,....been there,...dun that,...

You are 100% wrong.
http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1962/36196.html

[GLW]

You are 100% wrong.
http://law.justia.com/cases/oklahoma/supreme-court/1962/36196.html

OMG, now you're a sea lawyer!!!!

first, I am not wrong, because I do not abide in Oklahoma, and never have, although I have visited Tulsa a time or two,...

the case presented from your google search is in the jurisdiction of Oklahoma; jurisdiction is important, witnesses are important, evidence such as receipts for goods on the same day as the handshake agreement are important,...

so,....

lemme help:

the OPs jurisdiction is the USN,...

the OP acquired and completed qual cards as a result of the "promise", of the "verbal contract",...

by your legal deduction and assessment of the leadership fail at NPTU, the OP should be able to go to JAG and sue for his billet, and as a result of the behaviour unbecoming an officer and a gentleman, the XO should be canned and/or dealt a career ending FITREP, and the MCPO at least one lousy Chief EVAL,...

if the OP cannot acquire the billet because the billet did not or does not exist, then the OP should have legal and enforceable redress under the UCMJ or civil law or whichever jurisdiction applies (perhaps the State of New York?),...

that would all be the proper, legal recourse to the OP?!?!?!,...

(I don't think so, and I suspect the JAG would back up my deduction),....

[Rerun]

Exactly what GLW said.

[DDMurray]

Never trust anyone wearing khaki. Remember that.

Never trust anyone who tells you not trust anyone wearing khaki.