Home | Search | Help | Advertising | Contact Us | Bookmark and Share

 

NukeWorker.com, Nuclear Jobs & Nuclear Resumes
Pointed questions for nuclear enthusiasts and careerists
WM2015 CONFERENCE MARCH 15 - 19, 2015 PHOENIX CONVENTION CENTER
Pointed questions for nuclear enthusiasts and careerists

NukeWorker.com, Nuclear Jobs & Nuclear Resumes
 
Messages:
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
Forgot your password?


Related:

  Nuclear Jobs
  Nuclear News

  OSHA HAZWOPER
  Outage Schedules
  Gold Members
  Donate
  Nuke Shop
  Advertise
 


People online
54 Guests, 3 Users (1 Hidden)

bobconoscenti
MrHazmat
View members:
» View All Members
» View By Letter
» Search for User
» View Top Posters


NukeWorker Forum
Oct 23, 2014, 02:40 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All   Go Down
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: Pointed questions for nuclear enthusiasts and careerists  (Read 21992 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
RealityCheck
Light User
**

Karma: -8
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13


Go ahead, make my day!


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: Apr 14, 2011, 01:37 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 03:35 by Marlin » Logged

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds...dear old dad
Dave Warren
Radiological Engineer
Very Heavy User
*****

Karma: 1528
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2734


How did sex become dirty? God was Republican..


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: Apr 14, 2011, 01:39 »

No, not a touchy subject. We all tend to be sarcastic and kid with each other.

I take no offense from your posts. Don't confuse my cutting remarks being a direct result of something you said.

I expect you to speak your mind.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 03:35 by Marlin » Logged

My leadership will end the Obama era and begin a new era of American prosperity!......Another Mitt Romney lie
Cherenkov
Probation
*

Karma: 1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 22


Go blue!


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: Apr 14, 2011, 01:43 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.

If your expectations are so low, why stay?

-C
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:11 by Marlin » Logged
Cycoticpenguin
Guest
« Reply #28 on: Apr 14, 2011, 01:57 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:11 by Marlin » Logged
Smart People
Rad Engineer/Shipper
Gold Member
*

Karma: 2432
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1169


I like being around smart people


View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: Apr 14, 2011, 02:11 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.

You throw out nonsense and expect nonsense in return? How wise thou art.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:11 by Marlin » Logged

Blessed is the man who can laugh at himself--he will never cease to be amused
Think twice and say nothing..Chiun
I'm as big a fool as anyone..And bigger than most.. Odd Thomas
RDTroja
Site Heretic
Gold Member
*

Karma: 4467
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3446


I knew I got into IT for a reason!


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: Apr 14, 2011, 02:33 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.

And yet here you are. Your time must be pretty worthless to you. If you don't care enough to find out the difference between Chernobyl and current events and still come in with the comments you have made, you have not earned any more than disdain.

One thing we tend to do here (for better or worse) is encourage people to earn what they get. If that is a foreign concept, then either learn or be ready to put up with it. You are welcome to stay and contribute, but you have to earn respect. So far you haven't earned any but you come in with both guns blazing, so you get none. Get over it and quit whining.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:12 by Marlin » Logged

"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
                                  -Ronald Reagan

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

                                  - Voltaire
SRO-WANNABE
Moderate User
***

Karma: 53
Offline Offline

Posts: 88

Engineer


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: Apr 14, 2011, 02:33 »

INES level 7...are you sure...wow, that"ll never happen again...all we have to do is learn from the past and make sure it never happens again, right.

Oh, you mean there was a plant in the Ukraine that had a level 7? So, let's do some really cool lessons learned stuff and declare victory and "it will never happen again."

If you are buying this line, then you probably believed the big "mission accomplished" sign George Bush had on the carrier after the second Iraq invasion.

You guys gotta start thinking outside the little nuclear power box...that naïveté went by the wayside years ago.

You can bet I will be banned from this forum posthaste...you guys need to read up on Black Swan events before you declare victory over bad things happening to good people.

I fail to see your point.  Obviously we know your motive.

So I guess since we could end up in bad car accidents caused by catastrophic events or inclement weather we should stop driving.  I guess since there's a chance that a part that is instrumental in controlling the vehicle could fail we should quit driving.  Throw engineering out the window.  It happened once, you bet it will happen again.  Sell your cars now and save yourselves.  No improvements could fix the problems associated with motor vehicles.  I mean look at brand XYZ.  Their cars contained faulty ball joints that would fail and immediately cause their driver to lose control and crash the vehicle.  If it happened to them it will happen to the rest.  

This mentality compares to your own.  Now explain to us again; why should we take your path of reasoning concerning nuclear power?

I'm dying to know which group you are associated with....please share...
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:12 by Marlin » Logged
MacGyver
Very Heavy User
*****

Karma: 442
Offline Offline

Posts: 504


Pen, Paper Clip, Sun Glasses, Missile ... Check!


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: Apr 14, 2011, 02:49 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.

(aka π) x 1050 quatloos against the newcomer.








How's that for nonsense TROLL (aka RealityCheck)?
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:12 by Marlin » Logged

roadhp
Moderate User
***

Karma: 196
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 161


Playing in the bathtub!!!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #33 on: Apr 14, 2011, 05:47 »

Loved that episode. Tongue
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:13 by Marlin » Logged

Brave, brave Sir Robin, set forth from Camelot!!!!
OldHP
Gold Member
*

Karma: 241
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 392


Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: Apr 14, 2011, 05:58 »

I expected a barrage of nonsense...my expectations for this forum continues to be fulfilled.

Then why bother visiting or posting,  Censored!
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:13 by Marlin » Logged

Humor is a wonderful way to prevent hardening of the attitudes! unknown
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. Regan
HydroDave63
One more shopping day closer to the Apocalypse!
Forum Staff
*

Karma: 6471
Offline Offline

Posts: 5951


F***,even in the Future,nothing works! Spaceballs


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: Apr 14, 2011, 06:18 »

You can bet I will be banned from this forum posthaste...you guys need to read up on Black Swan events before you declare victory over bad things happening to good people.

your new avatar?

« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:13 by Marlin » Logged



Phil Robertson for President!!
Matthew B
Light User
**

Karma: 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: Apr 14, 2011, 07:31 »

You guys or gals must have some pretty gravy jobs to be setting on here and talking nonsense and questioning other's intelligence. Must be nice!!

Ever hear of shift work?

Did you notice the lights don't go off at 5PM and come back on at 8AM?

There are people who work at the places that supply that power 24/365.  Their off time is in the middle of the day.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:14 by Marlin » Logged
Matthew B
Light User
**

Karma: 2
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: Apr 14, 2011, 07:32 »

OH, and PS:  I do question your intelligence since you weren't able to figure that out on your own.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:14 by Marlin » Logged
namlive
Moderate User
***

Karma: 38
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 114



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: Apr 14, 2011, 08:44 »

First off, I hated the movie Black Swan. Who are they kidding? If she didn't really break the mirror at the end, where did she get the shard that she used to kill herself? I know I have a hard time covering CRDs with a 6 inch glass shard in my gut, I find it hard to believe someone would be dancing...and hey! One more thing. It takes a long time to die from a stomach wound.

Now having worked at TMI, I know exactly what isotopes were where and in what quantity. They were not exactly honest about their releases to the public, and the NRC gave them a wink and a nod. It is not that they did anything horrific, they didn't. But I would not put honesty and integrity on GPU's list. Anyone ever use the words "integrity" and "PECO" in the same sentence without lying? Speaking of integrity, anyone ever work for Integrity Radiation Management? I will say we are better now than before, (especially since I am off the road) but please stop making me laugh.

Dave Warren- you are correct. As long as the industry preaches the non-threshold linear model, I will use their numbers. Of course these are cancer deaths, does that  mean twice as many would actually get cancer with half being cured? So does getting cancer and then losing your home to medical expenses to save your life doesn't factor into the stats? Having been out west, I would say people who live at higher elevations in the US tend to have healthier life styles then those low landers in southern fried death states. That might skew the results.

Japan is doing Sr analysis. They  have a 3-4 week turn around time to allow for ingrowth after the separation process.

I can hear on Southpark, "Level 7 is bad. Okay"

« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:14 by Marlin » Logged

No one gets out alive.
plutone
Light User
**

Karma: -24
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: Apr 15, 2011, 07:25 »

Okaaay. (Takes a deep breath). Please don't confuse me with Other Posters.

Opinion poll cont'd:

1) Is the IAEA Level 7 designation appropriate? Was it delayed too long compared to events? When did F'shima exceed TMI?
2) Given that TMI had only operated for 1 year, had an empty SFP and its hydrogen explosion was contained without creating damage to outside equipment or a radioactive rubble field, how long will it take to stabilize F'shima, how long to cleanup and will units #5 & 6 ever operate again?
3) A recent report states that American reactors have up to 10x more spent fuel onsite and their SFPs, designed to hold 1/2 core, now contain up to 5 cores. Should there be a continued operation requirement to reduce this inventory? Should the SFPs be req'd to have backup cooling power systems? Should SFPs be req'd to have hard containment?

Thanks all.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:15 by Marlin » Logged
Marlin
Forum Staff
*

Karma: 4932
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6078


Stop Global Whining!!!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #40 on: Apr 15, 2011, 07:30 »

Okaaay. (Takes a deep breath). Please don't confuse me with Other Posters.

Opinion poll cont'd:

Much better you left out biased qualifiers this time, you may get a response for these.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:15 by Marlin » Logged

bradley535
Light User
**

Karma: 142
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 49


My employer found me at NukeWorker.com


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: Apr 15, 2011, 07:36 »

Check out the annual number of deaths caused by various electrical power generation methods. Nuclear power has, by far, the lowest [http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html]. No coal mines, dam bursts, dust explosions, carbon emissions, and less than a quarter of the industrial accidents of any other power generation. Life is life, and life is more important than the inconvenience that this plant has caused after being hit by an unprecedented natural disaster.

So far, no one has died from the radiation (and that includes the plant workers) and no one will. No one will suffer mutations or genetic disorders. Three workers so far have been exposed to levels that can be linked to an increased risk of cancer. This increased risk is less than that of working in a restaurant that has a smoking section [http://ec.europa.eu/energy/nuclear/radiation_protection/doc/publication/125.pdf]. All of these statements are easily researched and available to the public.

People don't want to admit this, but money=life. Don't believe me? There are studies that are done to see how many lives would be saved if streets were widened, crosswalks were put up, or streetlights installed. Decisions get made to install or not install based on the cost verses the amount of lives it would save per year. Based on processes like these the US government has put a value on the average human life at ~$23,000, given an average lifespan of 80years.

Everybody yells that money isn't worth life... Everybody is wrong. It is, because it has to be. Money isn't just money, it is the medium by which we exchange services. There is only so much work that can be done, and only so much money that can be spent. So in the end, saving money is the same as saving lives. It sounds cold, but it's true. Even were it not, nuclear power would still be the safest way to generate electricity.


INES level 7...are you sure...wow, that"ll never happen again...all we have to do is learn from the past and make sure it never happens again, right.

Oh, you mean there was a plant in the Ukraine that had a level 7? So, let's do some really cool lessons learned stuff and declare victory and "it will never happen again."

If you are buying this line, then you probably believed the big "mission accomplished" sign George Bush had on the carrier after the second Iraq invasion.

You guys gotta start thinking outside the little nuclear power box...that naïveté went by the wayside years ago.

You can bet I will be banned from this forum posthaste...you guys need to read up on Black Swan events before you declare victory over bad things happening to good people.

You use this "level 7" as if it were something that it is not. You seem to believe that it is a catch all for nuclear accident severity, and that its scale is for the overall effect on society. A level 7 event is not twice as bad as level 3.5. It isn't, and there is no such thing as a level 3.5. My point is, the levels do not work at all like that. It's just a set of categories to judge the impact on the industry and community. Most level 4 incidents don't even involve the release of radioactive material into the environment. This is a level 7 incident, by definition. Mostly, this is due to the need for the implementation of planned and extended countermeasures; and not so much for widespread health and environmental effects. This is not like Chernobyl in the slightest bit. Chernobyl was caused by human error and improper action, and resulted in the death of workers and widespread impact on the health of the nearby public.

The MITNSE website is a great place to get a summed up and accurate description of events in Japan's nuclear plants. It breaks down a lot of the ‘mumbo jumbo’ we spout here as a way of life. We spout this mumbo jumbo here, because this is our home. You have walked into our home, asked us your questions (to which the answers were already available should you have looked), and then spewed arrogance when we have answered them for you. It is upsetting to see someone act this way; however, you are a guest and I will treat you as one, answer your questions, and now ask you to behave yourself. Should you fail to do so then, yes, I would hope that you be asked to leave by those whom have the authority to do so.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:16 by Marlin » Logged
Marlin
Forum Staff
*

Karma: 4932
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6078


Stop Global Whining!!!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #42 on: Apr 15, 2011, 07:48 »


1) Is the IAEA Level 7 designation appropriate?
Yes 7 is appropriate for Fukishima but it still falls short of Chernobyl in terms of public and worker impact.
1) When did F'shima exceed TMI?
Depending on what you use as a yardstick, it was when the onsite backup systems were taken out by the tsunami or when the secondary containment was destroyed by hydrogen explosions. I suppose you could argue that the lose of spent fuel pool water level as that is what caused the first major release of activity.
2) Given that TMI had only operated for 1 year, had an empty SFP and its hydrogen explosion was contained without creating damage to outside equipment or a radioactive rubble field, how long will it take to stabilize F'shima, how long to cleanup and will units #5 & 6 ever operate again?
One of our operators should answer this but Fukishima was an older GE boiling water reactor and TMI was B&W designed pressurized water reactor so comparisons are apples and oranges.
3) A recent report states that American reactors have up to 10x more spent fuel onsite and their SFPs, designed to hold 1/2 core, now contain up to 5 cores. Should there be a continued operation requirement to reduce this inventory? Should the SFPs be req'd to have backup cooling power systems? Should SFPs be req'd to have hard containment?
We use dry storage for older fuel and most plants installed high density fuel storage racks many years ago. Most of your question are really for engineers and designers but I am sure some of our more senior operators can give you a very good educated guess.




You may exhale now.  Coffee
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:16 by Marlin » Logged

plutone
Light User
**

Karma: -24
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: Apr 15, 2011, 08:42 »

Reply to bradley535: (Although this post was not directed at me).

I take your point about the mortality associated with various energy sources. There is no free lunch and the mining accidents, air pollution and CO2 releases from coal are horrendous. There is even reason to believe that radiation releases from coal plants exceed that of nuclear in normal operation, apparently.

Nevertheless to call the F'shima situation an "inconvenience" is false. The thousands of people evacuated, perhaps never to return, the fishing and farming halted for decades, the worry over the future health of their families - that is an insult.

Your claim that no one will die is patently untrue. The workers, now 4 weeks into this nightmare, will undoubtably suffer severe effects. As winds spread the contamination around the Northern Hemisphere and milk in the US exceeds max values there will be consequences.

There is nothing about this situation that is comparable to "the smoking section of a restaurant". Your denial undercuts your original thesis and only inspires scepticism in fairminded observers.



« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:16 by Marlin » Logged
OldHP
Gold Member
*

Karma: 241
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 392


Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: Apr 15, 2011, 09:17 »

Reply to bradley535: (Although this post was not directed at me).

There is even reason to believe that radiation releases from coal plants exceed that of nuclear in normal operation, apparently.

As winds spread the contamination around the Northern Hemisphere and milk in the US exceeds max values there will be consequences.

There is nothing about this situation that is comparable to "the smoking section of a restaurant". Your denial undercuts your original thesis and only inspires scepticism in fairminded observers.


1. Measured and Proven

2. Milk is no where near the max values, the levels reported and documented are so low that 10 years ago they would have been undetectable.  However, we report what we see.  Unfortuantely, the press, you, and realitycheck have the belief that; if it is detectable - it is going to kill you.

3. Go out and buy an air sampler and take a sample in the smoking section of a resturant, have it analyzed at a recognized lab and then think about it.

I'll say the same thing I said to reality check - "Why bother visiting or posting  Censored!
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:17 by Marlin » Logged

Humor is a wonderful way to prevent hardening of the attitudes! unknown
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. Regan
namlive
Moderate User
***

Karma: 38
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 114



View Profile
« Reply #45 on: Apr 16, 2011, 12:03 »

The no one died from nuclear power is misleading. The industry doesn't take credit for any of the cancer deaths caused by exposure to radiation, because they have plausible deny-ability. I know a family that developed thyroid cancer after TMI.  Did TMI cause it? I know of an individual who would remove their dosimetry so they could stay at an outage longer. They received very high, unrecorded exposure to their stomach and later died from stomach cancer. That doesn't count as an industry death either. The increase in cancer rates among uranium miners? How is that overlooked? So far RECA has paid out $1.6 billion dollars, much of which went to Uranium miners, although those miners mined uranium for the Cold War and not commercial reactors. It would seem to me at least one person died from uranium mining.
http://www.wise-uranium.org/uhm.html

The nuclear industry also has industrial deaths, people getting electrocuted, getting their head crushed by an overhead crane, or guys falling off of slippery rocks because PECO wouldn't supply them with a flotation device (They got fined $300 for that.)

Nuclear power: It is safer than working in an office and getting a paper cut.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:17 by Marlin » Logged

No one gets out alive.
RAD-GHOST
Very Heavy User
*****

Karma: 986
Offline Offline

Posts: 548


What do Recruiters do in the Off Season?


View Profile WWW
« Reply #46 on: Apr 16, 2011, 04:30 »

Your claim that no one will die is patently untrue. The workers, now 4 weeks into this nightmare, will undoubtedly suffer severe effects. As winds spread the contamination around the Northern Hemisphere and milk in the US exceeds max values there will be consequences.

I, like many, pretty much knew it was a matter of time before your true agenda surfaced!

That statement is PATENTLY UNTRUE and ABSOLUTELY FALSE!  Your facts are presumption!  What are those presumptions based on..... BS  If an urge to massage your ego dictates your facts, then roll with it...preferably somewhere else!

Dictated, but Not Read....RG!

PS:  We're not a Tuff crowd, just an Educated one....... Wave
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:18 by Marlin » Logged

What do Rocket Scientist say," It's not like it's Health Physics"!
Cellman
Very Lite User
*

Karma: 4
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7



View Profile
« Reply #47 on: Apr 16, 2011, 09:53 »

INES level 7...are you sure...wow, that"ll never happen again...all we have to do is learn from the past and make sure it never happens again, right.

Mr. Reality Check...I'm not in the industry, just an interested supporter. In regards to the quote above:
1. TMI was a fairly classic LOCA. It hasn't happened again because serious reforms have helped to eliminate deficiencies.
2. Chernobyl was a Supercriticality. It hasn't happened again because the deficiencies were brought to light and mitigated as well as could be in an RBMK.
3. Fukushima is a station blackout from a natural event well beyond the design basis of the plant. There will be reforms because of it. I think it's important to realize that the Danai plant was actually closer to the epicenter and tsunami, but reached safe shutdown without a substantial issue. This tells me that the deficiencies in the earlier reactors were recognized and improvements were made as the designs evolved.

Along those lines, the best way to improve the safety of the industry is to start building new plants. If the permitting and construction of new plants was straightforward and practical, then it's more realistic to expect the retirement of older plants. We've seen this with coal fired generation. During the last decade, the regs were such that new coal could be permitted and built. When these plants came on line in the past few years, a great deal of older, less efficient generation was retired.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:18 by Marlin » Logged
plutone
Light User
**

Karma: -24
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: Apr 16, 2011, 05:05 »

Reply to rad-ghost:
My statement had 2 parts:

1) That at least some of the courageous workers who have been battling this thing for over 4 weeks now are likely to suffer severe health effects. There have been high level releases of gases and radioactive particles, levels have been poorly monitored and sometimes off the scale of the measuring equipment, there has been a shortage of dosimeters and some heroic emergency measures have been necessary. Do you think the workers will all be fine?

2) The spread of radiactive substances across the Northern Hemisphere and now showing up in food products in the US will have some consequences. I'm not claiming that everyone is going to die, just that you cannot deposit longlived isotopes into the environment without having some effects. The numbers may be small but they will happen. The nuclear industry gets away wth denying this by focusing on external doses and the shortlived nuclides, with the cynical knowledge that connecting any future cancer case with any specific radiation release will be almost impossible.

Very few serious answers to my questions so far...
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:19 by Marlin » Logged
OldHP
Gold Member
*

Karma: 241
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 392


Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: Apr 16, 2011, 06:08 »

Very few serious answers to my questions so far...

 BS   Pig Fly

Just maybe because you haven't really asked questions, just made statements!

The more I've gone back and read, I'm beginning to think you and realitycheck might just be the same person.

JM Two Cents
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2011, 04:19 by Marlin » Logged

Humor is a wonderful way to prevent hardening of the attitudes! unknown
The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other. Regan
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All   Go Up
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.418 seconds with 26 queries.
RSS for Messages RSS for Pictures RSS for Pictures