Pointed questions for nuclear enthusiasts and careerists

[Marlin]

re: nuclear being deadly or the most dangerous.  let me clarify.  nothing ever invented by man is capable of that much destruction (the bomb).  and radioactive isotopes have the capability to render land uninhabitable for tens of thousands of years.

Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? People are moving back into the land around Chernobyl.

to operate nuclear power generating plants without a clue as how to contain them in the event of bad stuff happening is astonishing.

Thanks for making my point.

[bismuth-210]

Like Hiroshima and Nagasaki? People are moving back into the land around Chernobyl.

Thanks for making my point.

Meh, who's moving back there ?  old people ?  the outcasts ?

please, comparing hiroshima and nagasaki to this is for the uneducated.  there's thousands of tons of spent fuel on site at F'shima.

[Marlin]

do you guys discredit this man ?  -->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yvtIL2ADs

arnie gundersen

Yes

http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2011/02/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume.html

[Marlin]

Meh, who's moving back there ?  old people ?  the outcasts ?

please, comparing hiroshima and nagasaki to this is for the uneducated.  there's thousands of tons of spent fuel on site at F'shima.

..and your credentials are??? I suspect mainly Troll as you present no real technical debate other than the normal shallow anti-nuke talking points.

[bismuth-210]

Being called a troll around here is like giving speeding tickets at the indy 500.

[RDTroja]

do you guys discredit this man ?  -->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yvtIL2ADs

arnie gundersen

I got this far into his bio -- "In April 2010, Gundersen released a report (commissioned by several anti-nuclear groups)..."

So, yes, i give him very little credit. He is doing work for people with an agenda. Are you surprised he comes to the conclusions he does? I also loved the 'Please Donate' request at the end... the mark of a true scientist. Or, not.

Fail.

[bismuth-210]

Yes

http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2011/02/arnie-gundersen-has-inflated-his-resume.html

meh, i don't trust entergy either.

the public in vermont has spoken and they want to shut down VY.  i don't blame them.

[bismuth-210]

I got this far into his bio -- "In April 2010, Gundersen released a report (commissioned by several anti-nuclear groups)..."

So, yes, i give him very little credit. He is doing work for people with an agenda. Are you surprised he comes to the conclusions he does? I also loved the 'Please Donate' request at the end... the mark of a true scientist. Or, not.

Fail.

he's speaking for people that have little money or influence.  we have no choice regarding what types of energy our government supports or pursues.  The only way we can make a difference is at the polling both.  

I am amazed at the depth of the nuclear lobby.  I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of their strategy sessions.

[RDTroja]

Being called a troll around here is like giving speeding tickets at the indy 500.

That would be 'Being called a Troll around here is like getting speeding tickets at the Indy 500.' Come to think about it, that doesn't make much sense either. What exactly was your point?

It was also a fairly weak deflection of a good point. What are your credentials, anyway? I mean other than being a decay product -- according to your username.

[bismuth-210]

no real technical debate other than the normal shallow anti-nuke talking points.

refute these 'shallow' anti-nook talking points:

1) it's not cheap.  if you factor in the true cost, what would be the cost / megawatt ?  it's truly staggering.  i am talking about tschernobyl, TMI and FUUUUUUCKshima.  the cost for the damages are staggering.  and if it were so cheap then repeal price anderson and let nook power stand on its own.

2)  it's not clean.  uranium mining and the waste issue.  still after 50 or so years, there has been no solution to the waste problem.  

please Tell Me how these are shallow arguments.  

[bismuth-210]

what difference does it make what my credentials are ?  this is a public internet message board regarding nuclear power plant workers.

what are yours ?

[RDTroja]

he's speaking for people that have little money or influence.  we have no choice regarding what types of energy our government supports or pursues.  The only way we can make a difference is at the polling both.  

I am amazed at the depth of the nuclear lobby.  I would love to be a fly on the wall at one of their strategy sessions.

He is speaking for organizations with a lobby and an agenda... and asking all those poor souls with little money or influence for some of that money they don't have. According to what I have found out in about 15 minutes his title should be 'charlatan.'

The 'Nuclear Lobby' doesn't much exist. The companies that own the nuclear plants have far more money invested in conventional (i.e. coal and gas) plants than nuclear plants. So, call them the energy lobby if you want, but there are only a few organizations that are really oriented toward nuclear power. It is actually quite frustrating how little money is spent promoting nuclear power. So, take heart. Like most monsters, this one is imaginary and only lives in the minds of those that fear it.

[HydroDave63]

before i only had a passing interest in nuclear power (i live in NYC so i've been following IP, Vermont Yankee and am old enough to remember shorehaven).  it's pretty darn cool, splitting atoms that is.  and i admire the macho-ness of nuke workers.  you guys are like fireman and navy pilots.  but, not every one can fly (and land) off of aircraft carriers or get launched into space.

meh, i don't trust entergy either.

the public in vermont has spoken and they want to shut down VY.  i don't blame them.

My oh my how the man-crush quickly fades  

[Marlin]

refute these 'shallow' anti-nook talking points:

1) it's not cheap.  if you factor in the true cost, what would be the cost / megawatt ?  it's truly staggering.  i am talking about tschernobyl, TMI and FUUUUUUCKshima.  the cost for the damages are staggering.  and if it were so cheap then repeal price anderson and let nook power stand on its own.

2)  it's not clean.  uranium mining and the waste issue.  still after 50 or so years, there has been no solution to the waste problem.  

please Tell Me how these are shallow arguments.  

All of this from a medical X-ray technician student, how impressive. You should have the worlds problems solved in no time. Try world hunger and war, I can't wait.

Wait!!! better yet get wind power and solar down to nuclear's cost without subsidies, please note that Price Anderson is not a subsidy, but I am sure you knew that.  


"Wind energy, solar power face cloudy future"

http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/18/news/economy/renewable_energy_tax_credit/index.htm

[RDTroja]

what difference does it make what my credentials are ?  this is a public internet message board regarding nuclear power plant workers.

what are yours ?

That is what I thought. Another dedicated follower with no background or knowledge of the cause.

My credentials would not mean anything to you, but suffice it to say I have a boatload of nuclear experience over 37 years, mostly in Radiation Protection... including teaching it. I do know something which, in the real world, trumps your nothing. But, since I doubt you live in the real world, that also will mean nothing to you.

I have also come to the conclusion that I have expended more of my energy on you than you are worth.

[bismuth-210]

All of this from a medical X-ray technician student, how impressive. You should have the worlds problems solved in no time. Try world hunger and war, I can't wait.

Wait!!! better yet get wind power and solar down to nuclear's cost without subsidies, please note that Price Anderson is not a subsidy, but I am sure you knew that.  

still waiting for serious answers

[bismuth-210]

That is what I thought. Another dedicated follower with no background or knowledge of the cause.

My credentials would not mean anything to you, but suffice it to say I have a boatload of nuclear experience over 37 years, mostly in Radiation Protection... including teaching it. I do know something which, in the real world, trumps your nothing. But, since I doubt you live in the real world, that also will mean nothing to you.

I have also come to the conclusion that I have expended more of my energy on you than you are worth.

what cause do you speak of ?

i am a medical xray student .

i also have a bachelor of science.

what's your highest level of education ?

[ski2313]

i am a medical xray student .

i also have a bachelor of science.

what's your highest level of education ?

We are all honored to be in the presence of such a distinguished individual.

[bismuth-210]

i am a medical xray student .

i also have a bachelor of science.

what's your highest level of education ?

We are all honored to be in the presence of such a distinguished invidivual.

what did i do to get everyones panties in a wad?  geeeeeze.

you guys asked. if i don't fit your narrative of how things should be then i am a troll or an outsider.  again, this is a public internet message board.  

[Marlin]

what difference does it make what my credentials are ?  this is a public internet message board regarding nuclear power plant workers.

what are yours ?

My titles have included:

Engineering Watch Supervisor
Leading Engineering Laboratory Technician
Engineering Technician
Radiation Protection Technician/Supervisor/Engineer
Safety Analyst
Nuclear Criticality Safety Specialist
Hazardous waste coordinator/specialist
Superintendent
Senior Waste characterization Engineer

All at nuclear facitilities over the last 38 years.

Did I mention that I certified as an EMT and have passed the exam for the National Registry of  Radiological Protection Technologists?

[Marlin]

still waiting for serious answers

The only answers you want are those that fit your paradigm. Any answer that is outside of your belief system you attack with vitriol.

Seems to fit the Troll definition.

[bismuth-210]

fine.

let's agree to disagree then.  i agree there is wild arguments from the anti-nuke crowd.

i am still following the events over in japan because it is an interesting engineering problem. The mainstream media is doing a terrible job covering it and presenting detailed analysis.

i will still come here to get an insiders viewpoint.

[plutone]

@Marlin: Could you explain in what sense Price-Anderson is not a subsidy to the nuclear industry? It appears that the operators are not willing to purchase liability insurance that would cover the damage and losses from a major accident and that they are relying on the government (taxpayers) to cover these costs. As they have for every serious accident so far and will be forced to do in Japan.

@Brett: The only answer I have "dismissed" or even countered was the suggestion that Fukushima is only an "inconvenience" and the results are comparable to "the smoking section of a restaurant". I did find that one insulting to the workers, the evacuees and anyone of normal intelligence.

Again, very few serious answers and lots of name calling and conspiracy theories. I had expected more from informed professionals.

Since I'm here:
1) Will F'shima #5 & #6 ever operate again?

2) Does anyone have misgivings about the dependency of the industry's reputation on the continued safe operation of nuclear plants in other countries, some of which still have no containment, many of which are old and maintained to questionable standards?

[OldHP]

still waiting for serious answers

Still waiting for serious questions!

what cause do you speak of ?
i am a medical xray student .
i also have a bachelor of science

1. The cause that you, plutone, and reality check (if you arn't one and the same) are promoting.
2. So?
3. So. They do offer a BS in Pottery Making!

It seems that one of those programs would have taught a little about capitalization vs texting jargon!

I have also come to the conclusion that I have expended more of my energy on you than you are worth.

Actually, I think we all have!  The (1, 2, or 3) of them have gotten this thread way off topic.

[Marlin]

@Marlin: Could you explain in what sense Price-Anderson is not a subsidy to the nuclear industry?

No government money is involved unless a limit is exceeded, until then the insurance pool that is funded by the utilities pays all liabilities.

It appears that the operators are not willing to purchase liability insurance that would cover the damage and losses from a major accident and that they are relying on the government (taxpayers) to cover these costs. As they have for every serious accident so far and will be forced to do in Japan.

Wrong again, all payouts have come from the utilities insurance pools to date, including TMI. In 1957 no private insurance company would underwrite a nuclear power plant fully so the government passed the PAA to limit liabilities. No tax payer money has been used to supplement the commerial nuclear plant insurance pool.



http://www.eoearth.org/article/Price-Anderson_Act_of_1957%2C_United_States