A couple of commercial questions

[Nuclear NASCAR]

Do you guys say "aye"?

When acknowledging communication you're more likely to hear "That's correct" or "I Understand you want me to......" followed by an affirmation or correction if the repeat back was incorrect.  You're more likely to hear Arrrggghhh than Aye at a commercial plant.

[JustinHEMI05]

When acknowledging communication you're more likely to hear "That's correct" or "I Understand you want me to......" followed by an affirmation or correction if the repeat back was incorrect.  You're more likely to hear Arrrggghhh than Aye at a commercial plant.

That's correct. 

Justin

[Already Gone]

Do you guys say "aye"?

We say aaaaight, which kinda rhymes with aye, but is actually a kinda ghetto slang for alright.

[Gamecock]

The drill I observed in the trainer at Seabrook was filled with what I would consider lack of formal communications.  Only once did I hear a verbatim repeat back.  I don't know if it was because it was a show for us MIT students or if that is how they do business all the time.  I got the feeling that all the players knew what they were doing, but it was certainly different then what I expected.

[PapaBear765]

The drill I observed in the trainer at Seabrook was filled with what I would consider lack of formal communications.  Only once did I hear a verbatim repeat back.  I don't know if it was because it was a show for us MIT students or if that is how they do business all the time.  I got the feeling that all the players knew what they were doing, but it was certainly different then what I expected.

So it's not the make-believe of the navy in which the EOOW says "secure port vital bus" and the EO wants to say "aye" or "got it" but can't because Rickover thinks that could...under the right circumstances...cause confusion and the EO secures the wrong bus?

I can't wait to start. 

[JustinHEMI05]

The drill I observed in the trainer at Seabrook was filled with what I would consider lack of formal communications.  Only once did I hear a verbatim repeat back.  I don't know if it was because it was a show for us MIT students or if that is how they do business all the time.  I got the feeling that all the players knew what they were doing, but it was certainly different then what I expected.

I understand exactly where you are coming from. When I first saw the "3 part communication," I thought "geez that is real informal." Nothing has to be verbatim repeated back. It can be paraphrased for understanding, and sometimes things just don't need to be said back. So ya, for Navy people, it is part of the culture shock at first. Now I realize just how silly verbatim repeat backs and the submarine interior communication manual were, while at the same time being a necessary animal in the NNPP... or like Mike likes to say... the Big Leagues vs Minor Leagues. 

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

So it's not the make-believe of the navy in which the EOOW says "secure port vital bus" and the EO wants to say "aye" or "got it" but can't because Rickover thinks that could...under the right circumstances...cause confusion and the EO secures the wrong bus?

I can't wait to start. 

That's correct.

Another thing to keep in mind too, is that we speak in acronyms out here. If you try to give the noun name to something, people might look at you funny and they will almost definitely give you crap about it. There are instances of people not actually remembering anymore, what an acronym means LOL. No more EOs telling you "its spoken EVAPORATOR" when you call up and say "the 10K is filling potable." 

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Very condescending comment.  We, the navy, provide the blanket of freedom under which you and every other American citizen sleeps.  We, the navy, are the most powerful seagoing service in the world....yet you refer to us as "minor league."   

You, the commercial nuclear industry, provide electricity to 20% of the country.  Your  the "big leagues" alright.

Wasn't meant to be condescending... hence the reference to Mike and the tongue sticking out smiley (no one calls the Navy minor league by the way... just the NNPP). Was supposed to be a harmless jab. Take it as you will though, I couldn't care less.

Justin

I did notice you left off the smiley in your quote. You could also at least cite your source when you make grandiose statements like "blanket of freedom."

[RDTroja]

The whole 'big league/minor league' issue isn't a matter of importance of job... just the size of the reactors. Commercial power plants are big league because of the output. Navy nuclear reactors are toys by comparison. You, too, would be impressed by the magnitude.

Don't get your knickers in a twist. And thank you for your service.

[cincinnatinuke]

Very condescending comment.  We, the navy, provide the blanket of freedom under which you and every other American citizen sleeps.  We, the navy, are the most powerful seagoing service in the world....yet you refer to us as "minor league."   

You, the commercial nuclear industry, provide electricity to 20% of the country.  Your  the "big leagues" alright.

Good movie is "Office Space".  One part in particular is where a guy tells of his one good idea that he is sure will make millions, like the pet rock.  It was called the "Jump to Conclusions Mat", where contestants move to different spots on a mat and Jump to Conclusions.

Gamecock, your response was lame.  I just hope you forgot to add the smiley or you were actually poking fun at "A Few Good Men".  Somehow, I doubt it.

[rlbinc]

Hey, thanks for the blanket of freedom.
I served during the cold war, and we only made handkerchiefs of freedom.
Anyway, I appreciate you.

Now quick - use your GI Bill before they divert the funds to assist the disadvantaged,  unemployed, illegally immigrated, encarcerated, and addicted.
Being in nuclear power, you are way too fortunate.

[HydroDave63]

  We, the navy, provide the blanket of freedom

Patrol blanket?

[PapaBear765]

Patrol blanket?

You mean patrol sock?

[PapaBear765]

As long as a guy was wearing the appropriate clothing, as talked about before, would anyone care if he had tattoos covering his arms?  Besides the obvious things like a "F--- YOU" on the forehead, is there anything that would keep someone from getting hired or be frowned upon later after they're hired?

[Nuclear NASCAR]

The only thing I've seen is one co-worker has been told to cover his confederate battle flag tattoo.  This was after a visiting worker complained about it a couple of years ago.  Tattoos shouldn't be an issue.  We've got a supervisor with a tattoo covering his whole arm and it's not an issue.

[PapaBear765]

What would be a good, short list of "commercial facts" that would be useful for a navy nuke who's on the fence that's some no BS info about the outside world?

That is:

1.  A job in Operations pays well, much better than navy pay.  The first one or two years will be low but it soon ramps up quickly.  A bulk of that high pay includes overtime, but the only people who don't get overtime are those who deliberately don't request it.  What is a guarantee is if you do 6 and out and start at AO somewhere, you will make at least two times what you made in the Navy after the first year. An SRO often comes in under an RO or an AO for money for the year. You might be talking base pay, but when they get paid double-time to work on a Sunday or holiday and the SRO doesn't, it adds up fast. Most AOs I know have paid off FICA for the year this month.

2.  Working hours: rotating shift work or regular hours?  Need input...

3.  Learning the plant will be more challenging than navy nuke systems due to complexity and quantity of the systems, but not impossible.  Your navy nuke experience at qualifying will be a big help in transitioning to commercial ways of business.

4.  There's nothing that would automatically turn someone away not to get hired.  Like: non-EWS, not a chief, non-EOOW, only did 6 years, etc.  Some of these things might affect one's starting salary, but they're not disqualifiers.

5.  A degree in engineering (electrical, mechanical, nuclear) is no better or worse to a position in Operations than a Nuclear Engineering Technology degree.  Someday you will tire of shift work and OT. Someday you may even tire of working at a commercial generating station and the BS it can involve.  When that time comes, companies like AREVA, GE, and Westinghouse have very high paying jobs in very cushy corporate buildings with very normal working schedules. Coupling an accredited degree with licensed commercial Ops experience will put you at the front of the line for those positions.


Anything else?  I'd just like to be able to give a dozen or so data points to guys when we're talking about getting out vs. staying in.

Thank you.

[Fermi2]

You hit it pretty well except I'd make a couple corrections. In Number 1 the pay is never low as you'll still make more money than you did in the Navy.

In number 5, I don't believe anyone said a degree of any type wasn't appealing, of course a degree is appealing. The point is a degree of any type isn't a deciding factor.

Mike

[PapaBear765]

Without actually finding the post (smite me), but I think it's in the "Do you regret getting out" thread, someone said that their first year or two was about the same or a little under what they were making in the navy, so that why I threw it in there.

I've read it a couple times by commercial guys that the actual engineering degree isn't as useful as the technology if you're going into Operations.  But if it's better not to make that remark...

[Fermi2]

18 years as a commercial nuke and I've yet to see anyone who didn't make more their first year out of the Navy especially if you go into Operations.
There is no degree that helps anymore than any other in Ops. A degree in advanced Shia Tsu is just as useful as an Engineering degree.
On the other hand any education is nice.

Mike

[Nuclear Renaissance]

There is no degree that helps anymore than any other in Ops. A degree in advanced Shia Tsu is just as useful as an Engineering degree.

Though I do agree that a degree is not necessary for - nor does it make - a person excel in Operations, nonetheless I do believe it can be very useful for the fact that it qualifies an operator to be a Shift Technical Advisor. Plants short on the STA position can make priority of operators wanting to license and that have the engineering degree.

[PapaBear765]

How common is it for people to change employers—go to different plants, that is?  Just a couple people or is it the norm?

Are people with shipyard STE training desirable hires?  I presume their experience is as translatable to commercial operations as a standard navy nuke's.

[Fermi2]

How common is it for people to change employers—go to different plants, that is?  Just a couple people or is it the norm?

Are people with shipyard STE training desirable hires?  I presume their experience is as translatable to commercial operations as a standard navy nuke's.

In short. No.

[Neutron Whisperer]

Panic re-enlisting is kinda correct. I would call it fear of the outside world. Many of us in the Navy have only known two things life with mom and/or dad and the Navy. I myself came in one month out of high school and for the last ten years the only thing I have known is the Navy. For right now I am putting aside thoes fears of health insurance, pay cut (I gross over 70k), and employment in a falling economy. In the end I had to place more value my family than my fears of the unknown.

Without asking for all of the pros and cons of staying in or getting out, would the current economic situation still make it "panic re-enlisting" for a guy to re-up now?

How is the nuclear industry fairing in this "financial meltdown"?  Are any companies slowing down how many new people they hire?  Any companies laying people off?

[Roll Tide]

How is the nuclear industry fairing in this "financial meltdown"?  Are any companies slowing down how many new people they hire?  Any companies laying people off?

It varies depending on the specific utility (and usually plant specific) circumstances. For example, if you (as a utility) are paying close to $1 Billion to cleanup a little "oopsie" at one of your dirt-burners, you may not be quite as aggressive as you would have liked.

A few people are working a little longer than they had planned a couple of years ago, but companies still have to be ready to replace them. Since the huge bailout and stimulus haven't targeted nuclear, there isn't a big increase from previous estimates in hiring.

I would say the biggest downside of current nuclear power hiring (from a Navy Nuke considering getting out) is that so many from other industries are considering moving to the relatively stable job market of nuclear power. But there are a lot of jobs out here.

[UncaBuffalo]

How is the nuclear industry fairing in this "financial meltdown"?  Are any companies slowing down how many new people they hire?  Any companies laying people off?

Entergy has put their plans to split into seperate entities on hold...waiting for the economy to settle out...

That hasn't seemed to translate to anything different on hiring...they are still filling positions as they come open...