Help | Contact Us
NukeWorker.com
NukeWorker Menu a few questions...

Author Topic: a few questions...  (Read 45935 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Apocalyspe

  • Guest
a few questions...
« on: Oct 10, 2008, 04:41 »
what are the requirements to get kicked out of the navy with a medical discharge?

My LPO sent me do medical for depression and I don't know what I want to do in life just yet so I don't want to get kicked out of the Navy. You probably don't want to hear my life story but I joined the navy not knowing what i was going to do at all from high school I thought i could do my 20 yrs and start my own small business or something. ANYways I am currently fearing for my future and I am totally lost, I am trying to balance my life out but I feel like I have just fallen flat on my face. I don't want my time in the Navy to be meaningless, nor do I want to be a further failure and be left with nothing when I get out. My goal right now is just to get an honorable discharge and be able to reap the benefits of the GI bill so I can have a decent job (and go back home). However, I know I need help with my medical issues and if they perscribe me any drugs I don't want to be 'de-nuk'd' (or kicked out) at least until I know all my options. I am at a point right now where I can steer some things around but I don't know where I'm driving just yet. I've been in deep thought and a state of panic for the past week an a half and I still cannot see the light. The only thing I know right now is that I do not want to stay in. So, the big things I have questions about are the requirements for getting the GI bill and what will cause me to lose it? can i be on antidepressants and still do my job? if I don't get kicked out what benefits do I have for staying in?(besides quals and experience I guess) and what opportunities do I have on the outside world as far as the nuclear field goes?   i cannot find all the technical mumbojumbo for all these questions, i dont know where to start looking

oh, ive been in 3 years and am currently a MM3 with a clean record and im stationed on a carrier.

if i forgot to say anything.....or this doesn't make any sense at all please post back....

sorry for ranting...

I dont need any hugs or anything.....i just need some sound advice
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2008, 04:54 by Apocalyspe »

withroaj

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #1 on: Oct 10, 2008, 05:02 »
I have a recommendation:  act like a grown up and finish out your contract.  Good luck.  Karma restored to zero.
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2008, 05:13 by withroaj »

Offline cincinnatinuke

  • Chemistry Technician CCNPP
  • Moderate User
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
  • Karma: 372
  • Gender: Male
  • Tell Recruiters to use NukeWorker.com
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #2 on: Oct 10, 2008, 05:26 »
I have a recommendation:  act like a grown up and finish out your contract.  Good luck.  Karma restored to zero.

Dude, WTF?

So a shipmate comes to you with a problem and first response is "finish out your contract and grow up".  Granted you may not know this individual personally but considering you are heading to a carrier or are there now and he is on one, dont you think this will be one of the many issues your junior sailors will come to you with?  How about divorces?  Pregnancies?  Illnesses?  Will your response be the same?

Apoc,

You are asking 25 questions both implied and direct in your passage.  Start small and go from there. 

I will answer your first line.  Pretty much any documented case of depression, whether or not you take meds will get you denuked.  I am speaking first hand about this.  Now a medical discharge??  Depends.  Is being a nuke causing your depression or just being in the navy?  Or if not causing are they aggrivating your condition?  The navy will try to work with you either way.  You could pick a different field, you could go LIMDU and try to get your nuke status back at a later date (like if this was caused by a recent event like parents passing away), or you and the navy could cut your losses. 

Whatever you do get treated and get better!

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

  • Electrician
  • Forum Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 938
  • Karma: 3094
  • Gender: Male
  • Everyone needs a Harley. Mine's furry with 4 legs.
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #3 on: Oct 10, 2008, 05:31 »
I have a recommendation:  act like a grown up and finish out your contract.  Good luck.  Karma restored to zero.

Very good restoring the karma but telling someone suffering from depression to act like a grownup isn't really helpful advice.  Been there myself, it didn't help me either.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

withroaj

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #4 on: Oct 10, 2008, 05:41 »
You're both right.  Apocalypse, I'm sorry.  I should have asked about the circumstances surrounding your depression.  I've just seen too many people play that card when they decided the Navy wasn't their thing, and then wink and smile on the way out with a severance check and GI Bill benefits.  Your situation could be different.  I shouldn't be so cynical.  Again I'm sorry.

Apocalyspe

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #5 on: Oct 10, 2008, 06:01 »
i have seen a friend of mine "fake it" in prototype to get out....i have lost all respect for that person. it is easy to get desensitized over the internet b/c i am just some anonymous nuke schmuck on the other side of a computer....but still i dont need any more negativity right now....i am just seeking help from other anonymous people who wont judge me in real life.

i have done more research and found that any pyschotropic medications, even in the treatment of tobacco/nicotine addiction is grounds for disqualification.

being a nuke was just a catalyst for my condition...but i really dont want to get into that.

and by me taking a severance check and Gi benefits, i wont be walking out the door with a wink and a smile ill be walking out in dismay and humiliation for the fact that i have shamed myself because i cant get through a f***ing job....ill be taking the benefits so im not left flat on my ass when i get kicked out
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2008, 01:01 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Offline nathaneltrct

  • Light User
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 69
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #6 on: Oct 10, 2008, 06:11 »
I will also tackle what I can for you from what I have garnered from my brief 10 years in. To the best of my recently attained and other knowledge-
     GI Bill can be used as long as you have served 30 months and received a discharge under honorable conditions (medical under honorable, general under honorable or straight honorable). Along with that, make sure you go to legal to try to get an honorable (as opposed to general under honorable conditions, or the one I hated to hear "other than dishonorable", yuck) upgrade worked out. Also you can get an upgrade after being out for six months. This was TOLD to me by my local fleet and family support center personnel as being a possibility. I had contact with an individual that had a DUI recently and got a straight honorable discharge, after upgrade...yes really.
     You can be put on limited duty in 6-8 month increments to be evaluated, usually twice, under a psychiatrist/psychologist.(Buy you more time to fix whatever) Need help on this part but I'm pretty sure once you take mind-altering drugs whether it's Prozac or Chantix to quit smoking, you will be de-nuked/de-subbed, if applicable. Your NEC should be changed to 3359 pending the outcome. During said DR. evaluation, he will tell you to BREATHE! If you have one foot in yesterday, and one foot in tomorrow, you will end up pissing all over today. Which is the only time you are living in, and can affect. :)
    Getting "kicked out" takes time, like everything else in the navy. If they de-nuke you, you will have the option of rate conversion, more than likely. Which would buy you more time to figure things out. Which means paychecks in this lovely economy. Also since I was nice through the entire post, and before someone else smashes you,1) search function, 2)spell check (bottom right button) and 3)complete sentences/semi-organized paragraphs are much appreciated here. I'm a hugger so good luck, but use your big boy words and search functions before they smite you. I hope this helps, and was done to the best of my knowledge.
Above all, don't fear difficult moments, the best comes from them. -Rita Levi Montalcini

Apocalyspe

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #7 on: Oct 10, 2008, 06:20 »
Also, i have one month to fix my shit.......according to the navy MANMED any psychiatric disorder that resolves itself in one month with no psychotropic drugs and no significant pyschotherapy will be fit for nuclear duty if the "acute situational stress reaction" is fixed w/ in one month...i have figured out my options as far as getting disqualified, but i need to do more research....again im only looking for a point in the right direction


and cincinnatinuke, thank you i will look into getting some time "LIMDU" ( i hope that meand TAD or something, i really dont know what limited duty entails)





Edited to remove profanity and name calling
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2008, 08:32 by Gamecock »

Apocalyspe

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #8 on: Oct 10, 2008, 06:24 »
http://navymedicine.med.navy.mil/Files/Media/directives/MANMED%20CHANGE%20126%20-%20Pages%2051-112.pdf


this link is official navy nuke qualification/disqualification literature.......Look at article 15-103 (and 104) starting on page 15-78


« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2008, 08:32 by Gamecock »

Offline Preciousblue1965

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Karma: 524
  • Gender: Male
  • "It is good for you, builds character"
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #9 on: Oct 10, 2008, 07:58 »
im sorry for not using spell check and my "big-boy" words nathaneltrct(asshole) ... im just looking for information ...and fast before i screw myself over
sorry for that nathanel.....but i dont care if i get bashed for my grammar, neither should you, if you have a hard time reading it, dont...i am just freaking out right now for my future

Slow your roll, biscuit.  Don't get bent out of shape at the SMAG for some constructive criticism.  Remember this is the written, not spoken, word so grammar, syntax, and punctuation have a lot more influence than in a spoken conversation.  I admit that when I first read your first post, it came across as someone who was trying to figure out how they COULD get a med discharge and get out of the Navy, not as someone who was worrried that the WOULD get a med discharge against their will. Furthermore, although most of those who post here are old salts and some not so old salts, we generally try to curb the outright swearing as best we can.  Using #@(% and other substitutes are greatly appreciated. 

As others have been told here numerous times, "Welcome to the Shark Tank.  There are friendly sharks, and some not so friendly sharks"(tribute to the words of HoneyComb). You will get good advice here, but it may not be advice you want or in a manner to your liking.  Think of it like a fish, eat the meat and spit out the bone. 

I know first hand a buddy of mine that went back to Protohell as a staff guy and got so fed up with the BS that he started having nightmares about work and severe depression.  Navy Docs blew him off and sent him back to work.  He later told us that after that he went home and sat in his garage with the car running until his wife got home early from work.  Checked himself into Civie Mental clinic and Navy got ticked off something serious.  In the end, he got something other than an honorable discharge and lost his GI bill.  But he is doing great at the company he works for now. 

Bottom line, the more you research and more questions you ask, the better off you will be.  The Navy can't really force you out without having some agreement from you.  Just as you just can't leave the Navy because of your contract, the Navy has to honor their half to the best of its ability which means that certain compensation for you is generally part of the deal.  Think of it as far as worst case scenario, you get seperated and don't get the GI bill.  You get some loans and grants and go back to college.  Anything else is better than that right?
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

JustinHEMI05

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #10 on: Oct 10, 2008, 09:51 »


I dont need any hugs or anything.....i just need some sound advice

Don't worry, no one was going to give you one.

Is life on your ship really that hard? If so, then there is a problem with your division/department. Or is it all you? If you can't handle being a Navy Nuke what, exactly, do you think you can handle? That's not a slam question... its a legit question for you to think about. Life outside of the Navy is MUCH harder. I think you would be better off trying to follow Nathan's advice and getting all the help you can for as long as you can before getting out. That way, you are better prepared to enter the "real" world, for lack of a better term.

Good luck.

Justin

PS I do agree with withroaj's original sentiments some. But I am giving the benefit of the doubt, because I don't know you (well maybe I do if you went to MARF).
« Last Edit: Oct 10, 2008, 10:01 by JustinHEMI »

Offline HydroDave63

  • Retired
  • *
  • Posts: 6295
  • Karma: 6629
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #11 on: Oct 10, 2008, 11:37 »

My LPO sent me do medical for depression

What helps me a LOT, is when I take 1000 I.U. of Vitamin D as a supplement, and 8 hours sleep. Be surprised how that helps the physical side help the mental side.

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #12 on: Oct 11, 2008, 07:39 »
OH MY F&*%*NG GAWD!!!!

Well hell son.  I made it through the Navy with severe mental depression.  They didn't have Prozac or Paxil then.  Depression wasn't even considered a "medical" condition then.  People were not so enlightened then.

But, I can tell you this, I got booted out anyway.  There was NO GI Bill for sailors of my era, so all I got was goodbye.  Exactly 55 hours after I became a civilian, I was working at a nuclear power plant.

You are looking at a worst-case scenario where you will get severance (WTFO!!!!) and the GI Bill.

Take the GI Bill and go to school.  Call the International Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners Local in your area.  Tell them that you were a MM and you want a book in their local as a Millwright.  You are entitled to a Journeyman's card.  That is a GOOD paying job with excellent benefits.  It will feed you while you finish school.  Heck, it'll feed you and give you a pension for life if you want to go that route - but get the degree anyway.

Look up.  The sky is not falling on you.  It might even be sunny today.  Take the meds if you need them - period.  Don't let this thing beat you just to keep the worst job you will ever have (even though you'll miss it forever).

DO NOT let your condition shame you.  It isn't your fault.  Try your best.  Take care of yourself first.  Don't confuse depression with sadness - that will only make you sad for no reason.

I have had this disease all my life.  I will always have it.  Sometimes, I have needed the meds - and it has cost me a good job - and sometimes I don't need the meds.  I have a better job now.  Still, life is good.  With or without a Seratonin imbalance in your brain.  Life is good.  Even though people put roadblocks and challenges in your way.  Even though people without this condition will NEVER understand it no matter how hard they try.

As far as the Navy goes, they are pulling their typical bullshit.  Think about the logic.  They'd rather have you faking it and ignoring your condition while you are depressed and have your hand on the controls of a nuclear plant.  That is fine with them.  But if you treat your condition with FDA-approved medication, you are out.  Sounds like the Scientologists are running things, huh?

Many people, including me and some of my closest friends, have this condition.  We all do very well in life by managing to live with it.  You will too.

Good luck, and thank you for your service to our country.

Troy
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Gamecock

  • Subject Matter Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Karma: 2367
  • Gender: Male
  • "Perfection is the enemy of good enough."
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #13 on: Oct 11, 2008, 08:34 »


As far as the Navy goes, they are pulling their typical bullshit.  Think about the logic.  They'd rather have you faking it and ignoring your condition while you are depressed and have your hand on the controls of a nuclear plant.  That is fine with them.  But if you treat your condition with FDA-approved medication, you are out.  Sounds like the Scientologists are running things, huh?



Typical navy BS??
We all know folks that have faked whatever illness because they decided they didn't want to be in the navy anymore.  Because of that, navy medical has got to look at everybody who shows up with what could be a disqualifying issue with a cynical eye.   So, when someone who has "real" issues shows up, they have to jump through hoops to get the help they need.

So, blame the malingerers that cause the system to be the way it is, not the system. 
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

withroaj

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #14 on: Oct 11, 2008, 09:08 »
Typical navy BS??
We all know folks that have faked whatever illness because they decided they didn't want to be in the navy anymore.  Because of that, navy medical has got to look at everybody who shows up with what could be a disqualifying issue with a cynical eye.   So, when someone who has "real" issues shows up, they have to jump through hoops to get the help they need.

So, blame the malingerers that cause the system to be the way it is, not the system. 

And this is what caused my original response.

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #15 on: Oct 11, 2008, 02:41 »
Exactly my point.  A GI Bill would have been nice, but we did okay without it.

Gamecock and Withroaj, you are totally missing my point.

The Navy doctor either kicking you out or letting you out (depending on your POV) for taking anti-depressants is the bullshit part.  They ought to prescribe them if necessary and send the sailor back to his ship.

The idea that depression should be grounds for discharge is ridiculous.  The idea that being treated for your depression by a qualified doctor using approved medication is beyond ridiculous - it is plain fu#@ing stupid.

This condition is still so misunderstood that it is shameful.  Having it does not make you a monster, as suicidal maniac, or unable to function.  Some of the drugs have side-effects, but those can be avoided because there are so many different meds.  Most of the side-effects won't affect your job performance (but can hurt your marriage even for a few years after you stop taking them) .The suicidal ideations don't happen to everyone, and they go away if you switch to the right drug.

It is true that during the period between the diagnosis and the final decision on treatment most people are unable to do certain types of work - especially where rotating shifts are involved.  But this is temporary and the patient is not completely debilitated in the meantime.  Any person can be reassigned to a "safer" job while the meds are being adjusted and returned to work.

The process described by earlier posters suggests that they'll give you a brief time to "snap out of it" without the meds and discharge you if you don't.  This is about the equivalent of telling a Reactor Operator that he can sit the panel with 20/60 vision as long as he doesn't wear his glasses.  He'll get a minute to try to focus without them, but if he can't he's gone.

The Navy needs to see reality.  There have been hundreds, maybe thousands, of nukes who operated their reactors un-diagnosed and un-medicated.  Nobody has ever pulled the rods to the top, scuttled the ship, sabotaged the reduction gears, or done anything disastrous in all that time.  Taking the right dosage of the right medicine is not going to make that any more likely to happen either.

But, the Navy is predictable.  Their most valuable asset - humans - are discarded the moment they show sign of human weakness or frailty.  If they just didn't give up so quickly, they wouldn't be creating the opportunity for malingerers to abuse the system.  If faking depression wasn't an automatic ticket out, then nobody would fake it.  (nobody lies to a navy doctor if all he'll get for it is a pill that makes orgasms impossible)
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Gamecock

  • Subject Matter Expert
  • *
  • Posts: 1202
  • Karma: 2367
  • Gender: Male
  • "Perfection is the enemy of good enough."
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #16 on: Oct 11, 2008, 03:47 »

The Navy doctor either kicking you out or letting you out (depending on your POV) for taking anti-depressants is the bullshit part.  They ought to prescribe them if necessary and send the sailor back to his ship.

The idea that depression should be grounds for discharge is ridiculous.  The idea that being treated for your depression by a qualified doctor using approved medication is beyond ridiculous - it is plain fu#@ing stupid.

This condition is still so misunderstood that it is shameful.  Having it does not make you a monster, as suicidal maniac, or unable to function.  Some of the drugs have side-effects, but those can be avoided because there are so many different meds.  Most of the side-effects won't affect your job performance (but can hurt your marriage even for a few years after you stop taking them) .The suicidal ideations don't happen to everyone, and they go away if you switch to the right drug.

It is true that during the period between the diagnosis and the final decision on treatment most people are unable to do certain types of work - especially where rotating shifts are involved.  But this is temporary and the patient is not completely debilitated in the meantime.  Any person can be reassigned to a "safer" job while the meds are being adjusted and returned to work.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.  The navy is in the business of putting ordnance on target when called upon.  When that call comes, all sailors need to be ready to do their jobs without issue.  Someone taking mood altering drugs (or someone who should be taking mood altering drugs and isn't taking them as required) potentially puts the ship and shipmates lives at risk.

That simply is unacceptable to me.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: Oct 11, 2008, 07:59 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #17 on: Oct 12, 2008, 01:09 »
The reason why we disagree, with all due respect, is that I know what I'm talking about and you don't.

That isn't meant to be a dig.  You just haven't had to live with the condition.  You are living with the same misperceptions and prejudices as everyone else.

The term "mood-altering" is the deceptive part of this whole discussion.  While you could say that antidepressants alter one's mood - it is in the same way that fixing a wiped bearing alters the performance of the machine.

Cigarettes, beer, chocolate, fat, coffee, tea, and dopamine are all mood altering drugs too.  They are all addictive.  Prozac is not.

If the only "mood-altering" that a drug does is to make a person stop feeling f#@ked up, what is the problem? 

Yeah, Tom Cruise will tell you that they cause suicidal tendencies.  This is bullshit.  All of the people who killed themselves on Prozac had either stopped taking it, were only recently prescribed it (too late, too little, or both) or had other complicating factors.  Many people are so desperately close to killing themselves before they seek treatment that there isn't enough time for it to work.  People stop taking their medicine for no good reason, or they were taking the wrong one in the first place.
Seriously, depressed people do not think about killing ourselves more when we are on meds than when we are off.  The stigma that has been attached to depression by an uninformed and afraid public is the reason that nobody wants to admit that he may have it.  Telling this sailor that he can keep his job as long as he doesn't seek treatment for his depression and hides the symptoms well enough (quite easy to do with enough practice) is just going to make it worse.  They're just giving him a reason to cover up his problem instead of dealing with it.

But Nasonex is a different story.  God help the kid who gets an allergy - cause he can become more suicidal from his medicine. 
Depression is a serious condition with potentially debilitating symptoms, but it is not a terminal illness or untreatable.  The treatment works well for most people.  There is such a variety of effective medicines that one or another of them can manage the condition for almost everyone.  It just takes a little time to figure out which one.  But a sailor with a broken leg is going to be just as unable to put the ordnance on target for just as long.  You gonna discharge them too?  Or, can they stay in as long as they limp along without a cast?
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

JsonD13

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #18 on: Oct 12, 2008, 10:03 »
Ok, now to weigh in with my two cents since I am living with this condition right now, and I am still in the Navy.

Gamecock, there are plenty of non-nukes in the Navy who take anti-depressants and can continue to do their job.  I work with quite a few of them in my current duties (I am still on board my current ship too).  If your argument of putting bombs on target were to hold up in this circumstance, think about that these people are doing the maintenance on our aircraft.  How would these people be allowed to continue in their job and nukes not be?  It just doesn't make sense.

Apoc, I know where you are coming from.  I had plenty of plans before this all happened to me (my "event" occured almost a year ago), however, once I started really getting treatment, things got better, my marriage improved, and I have been able to adjust and make better plans for my future than I had previously.  The Navy will in grand fashion though, take their sweet time to allow you to move on with your life (its been almost a year and I still have no change in my NEC at all, not even a temp NEC like 3389).  Also, be prepared for many people to assume you are faking it because they do not deal with the same issues in their life as you do.  Believe it or not, there are many ignorant nukes out there.  I am facing the criticism of many of my old khakis and even some of the people I work with now do not believe me because I do not talk about my issues at work (why should I?  other people have no right to know).  Just FYI, I was showing symptoms for two years, and had gotten diagnosed with a disqualifying disorder with no further medical intervention.  Most medical personnel automatically assume that you want to stay in your job even though it may be the job thats causing all these issues.  Also, when I started on meds I got two different statements, one from my radiation health officer saying that I would be able to get out (which is correct by instruction), and another from my chief saying that I would stay there for the rest of my time in the Navy (which seems to be more correct at the moment, considering the slowness that it is taking big Navy to remove my NEC).  Some of the instructions to be familiar with are OPNAV 1220.1c, MILPERSMAN 1440-010, MANMED P-117.  Know these instructions backwards and forwards because your COC will try to pull something over your eyes if you don't.

Beercourt, yes, the Navy has gotten a kinder and gentler since you got out, but if you consider the issue and if the job has caused it, that should be treated like any other condition that requires disability right?  Under title 38, long term depression is considered a disability, along with other fun things like having the plague (100% while you have it), sleep apnea (50% if you require a CPAP), and severe acne (not sure on that percentage).  There are some really wierd things that you can get a check for the rest of your life for if you look.

Jason

Offline Already Gone

  • Curmudgeon At Large
  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 1769
  • Karma: 3388
  • Gender: Male
  • Did I say that out loud?
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #19 on: Oct 12, 2008, 11:16 »
Jason,

Thanks for saying that.  You know, it makes a difference in the way people think when they find out that so many well-adjusted, highly-successful, functioning people actually have depression.  Actually, a civilian employer was far worse to me about it than the Navy.  I didn't know I had depression when I was in.  I just lived with it as I always did before and for seven years after.  It sure would have helped if either the Navy or that employer would have recognized my condition as a disability.  I tried, they just said it wasn't.  End of discussion; end of job.

GC, your point is strong, but your information is weak.  We can say the we agree that each individual is a unique person with his or her own circumstances.  Sometimes a broken leg isn't set properly; it doesn't heal right and the person is hobbled for life.  Sometimes a sailor with depression doesn't respond to treatment, or the effect of the treatment is erratic; he needs a job that doesn't involve the types of stress that you find in the military.  But your misconception that a sailor who stops taking his medicine is going to have a sudden change in behavior is what tells it all.  These guys are functioning right now without the drugs.  If they can do that, stopping the drugs will not cause such a drastic change in their condition.  We are NOT talking about bipolar disorder here.  This used to be known as "manic depression" but actually has nothing in common with depression.  The two are totally unrelated.  This kid is not bipolar.  Bipolar people cannot function in the Navy with or without medication

But most bones heal, and most people with depression do to.  The need for medication is not necessarily permanent.  I haven't taken an anti-depressant for years - and then it was to quit smoking (it worked).  I still have the disease, but the meds helped me cope with it while I worked to eliminate the things that made it bad enough that I needed the meds.

Some people just take the medicine forever and accept the disease.  They don't turn to things like family and faith.  They don't get the necessary counselling.  Eventually, they may crash.

I look at the drugs like training wheels.  I think that is a fair analogy.  They keep you upright while you get stronger and balanced.  Then you can take them off.  Or you can leave them on as a backup.  But it is up to the individual to learn to ride it out with or without drugs.  People - even military people - should be considered individually, and not dismissed out-of-hand because one box on one form gets checked.
« Last Edit: Oct 12, 2008, 09:13 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Samabby

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #20 on: Oct 13, 2008, 10:58 »
" What helps me a LOT, is when I take 1000 I.U. of Vitamin D as a supplement, and 8 hours sleep. Be surprised how that helps the physical side help the mental side. "

Sleep loss is often a key factor. Back in Viet Nam days, battlefield psychosis cases were often successfully treated with 48 hours of uninterrupted rest.

Good luck to this young man as he tries to get some help.

Offline Preciousblue1965

  • Very Heavy User
  • *****
  • Posts: 687
  • Karma: 524
  • Gender: Male
  • "It is good for you, builds character"
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #21 on: Oct 13, 2008, 11:56 »
Well I can tell you right now that there are things out there that Navy medical hands out that are "mood" altering.  Flexiral is notorious for making people irritable and short tempered.  My wife almost wouldn't marry me because of the way I acted while taking it.  It wasn't until a doctor she works with informed her that many people won't take it becuase of the way it makes them.  Same thing with a lot of the smoking cessation drugs that they try to get people to use.  Heard horror stories of guys waking up with horrible nightmares on some of that stuff. 

BeerCourt is right that it takes a while to find the right med for someone suffering from depression or other mental problems.  It took my wife several years and several different types to find the one that worked for her.  Even then they can change at the blink of an eye.  What works for one person could send another person over the edge and vice versa. 

Yes there are hundreds of people in the Navy, Nukes included, that have mental problems that are undiagnosed and untreated.  Case in point, we had a SPU who suffered from OCD.  He would have to check the locks on his doors at least every hour, and various other things like that.  It finally came out when he told the command that he had this overwhelming urge to turn switches on the control panel that would have been detrimental to the plant.  Supposedly he is out of the Navy but on medication and doing well at conventional plant as an operator.
"No good deal goes unpunished"

"Explain using obscene hand jestures the concept of pump laws"

I have found the cure for LIBERALISM, it is a good steady dose of REALITY!

PapaBear765

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #22 on: Oct 13, 2008, 06:13 »
Some of the instructions to be familiar with are OPNAV 1220.1c, MILPERSMAN 1440-010, MANMED P-117.  Know these instructions backwards and forwards because your COC will try to pull something over your eyes if you don't.

That's appropriate advice for anyone asking for help on this website.  I've learned so much just from Googling "OPNAVINST".  It has helped me sort out the Gamecock from the truth.

Khak-Hater

  • Guest
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #23 on: Oct 14, 2008, 11:34 »
Excellent discussion everyone.  Yes, the Navy sucks, but in it's suckyness [word?], it builds character.  Is it fair?  What's fair?  I tell my poor children that "fair" is a place with a merry-go-round and a tilt-a-whirl.  The Navy's not fair.  Life's not fair.  The state fair's a fair, but it doesn't hold a candle to a good amusement park.

Let's talk about the problem itself.  Now bear in mind that I'm a Nuclear Engineer, and not a psychologist, but let's be honest, unless you're a very special person, or truly sick in the head, or a Grade "A" A##@ole, or a zen master, then you're going to experience a fair share of depression in the Navy.  It tends to be a very negative environment, especially on a carrier.  So, if you will, let me share some wisdom [or pseudo-wisdom].  Who knows?  Some of it might help. 

Now depression is just rage without enthusiasm.  That doesn't really help, because rage [jusified or not] will get you into trouble a lot faster in the Navy than depression will.

So what will help?  How about some reading.  You're in the Navy.  You don't have anything better to do with your spare time.  So read.  To depressed [as well as suicidal] people, I always recommend "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Albert Camus.  Don't worry, unlike most existential writers (e.g., Sartre and Heidegger), Camus is easy enough reading that it won't make you even more depressed.  In it, Camus points out that the only really important decision in life is whether or not to kill yourself [All other decisions are temporary].  He explores rage, motivation, and depression.  It's a good read. 

Next, I'd recommend "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge" by Castaneda.  Don't worry, you don't have to believe the stuff, but it is some good reading on life, death, fear, and motivation."  I've recommended it to a lot of depressed people and it seems to cheer them up.

Next, let's talk activities.  There's no better way to fight depression than physical activity. 

I'll start out with what seems like a non-activity, "sleep."  I had a good friend on the Enterprise who said that every hour asleep is an hour less at sea.  He went through a period during which, any time he had any free time he'd sleep it away.  It seemed to work for him.  It was like he was a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.

If you get bored with that, then, on a carrier, you should have a weight room [we did].  Go pump some iron until your muscles ache.  You're not doing this to become Arnold.  You're not doing it to pick up chicks.  You're not doing this to compete with Zugg the weight lifter.  You're doing it because people feel better when they get some exhausting physical activity [and no I don't mean working on a plant component for fourteen hours only to have some Khak tell you how much you suck after you get done].  I mean brutal physical effort for no reason at all.  It doesn't matter how much weight you lift, as long as you wear yourself out.  Try it.

Along those lines, I'm a big fan of eastern activities (e.g., Yoga, Tia Chi, Karate, Judo, Kendo, etc.) for physical and mental well being.  When I was on the Enterprise, we had some PO2 from the MAA who held Hopkido classes.  I never went [primarilly because he was a Grade A jacka##], but in hindsight it would've been a wonderful way to serve time.  If you don't have any classes on board, then maybe just get a book on yoga.  It'll suprise you how well it works.

Also, the advice about vitamans is good stuff.  I take healthy doses of A, B-Complex, C, D, E, Potassium, Magnesium, and Calcium on a daily basis, and I feel like a million bucks.  I wish I'd started earlier in life.

Finally, I'd like to say please don't feel like you're locked in just because you've started down this path.  Sometimes we feel like, just because we've started something, we have to finish it, even when that's getting a medical discharge for depression.  You can pull out of this, one little step at a time.  If you do, then let it happen.  Don't get hung up just because you want to complete something.

Good Luck,

MGM 

« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2008, 01:39 by Khak-Hater »

Offline gsmagnum

  • Light User
  • **
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: 38
Re: a few questions...
« Reply #24 on: Oct 16, 2008, 09:03 »
I'll second the sleeping your sea time away. I was on the Enterprise too and that was my trick.
OTC stuff like Benedryl will help you sleep, but you have to be careful to not take too much as you need to be able to respond for GQ and other things. My secret potion was Nyquil, but I am not so sure that it will knock a person out anymore since they changed the formula.

Exercise is supposed to be good, but it never did a damn thing for me.

Good luck with your depression. It is a PITA for you and all that are around you to deal with.

It sounds like your LPO is at least looking out for you whether you think so or not. That is a good thing.

 


NukeWorker ™ is a registered trademark of NukeWorker.com ™, LLC © 1996-2024 All rights reserved.
All material on this Web Site, including text, photographs, graphics, code and/or software, are protected by international copyright/trademark laws and treaties. Unauthorized use is not permitted. You may not modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit or distribute, in any manner, the material on this web site or any portion of it. Doing so will result in severe civil and criminal penalties, and will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law.
Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Code of Conduct | Spam Policy | Advertising Info | Contact Us | Forum Rules | Password Problem?