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yayarea

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Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« on: Jun 21, 2011, 05:29 »
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. I had a couple of questions regarding quals and secondary necs, but first I apologize if this was the wrong place to post this! This is actually my first time posting anything on any forum, so again, I apologize.

I had actually spent hours sifting through the site prior to signing my contract and I'm excited to be leaving soon. I'm a depper right now and I've been trying to do as much research as I can about how things work in the Navy (and Nukeworker has helped immensely!), but I still have a couple of lingering questions.

My first question was regarding the aviation warfare quals on a carrier. I had spoken to someone before about quals and he had mentioned aviation warfare; I was wondering if getting air qualified was a possibility for nucs going in at all. The same guy told me that getting qualified would look good, even better if dual warfare qualified. (The guy wasn't a nuc, but he hadn't known how it would be for nucs, so I come to you guys!)

As for my second question, I was wondering what other secondary NECs a Nuc can carry. I had searched for this one, as well as my former question, but I could not find anything. I read that sub Nucs could be divers; I also read some Nucs could carry secondary NECs for being able to operate some special equipment. What other NECs are Nucs able to shoot for?

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 21, 2011, 10:50 »
Yes you can qualify Air... Its encouraged.

As far as secondary NEC's, yes theres more then a few. I had 2. 3385 and 9571. You can get some applicable to nukes, some are not.

edit: The navy changed its regulations with warfare qualifications. You MUST qualify your primary (i.e. surface warfare for you on a carrier) THEN you can qualify air. It looks good on evals.

I was under the impression sub nuke divers were a thing of the past. You CAN still qualify welder though after prototype. I dont remember, does fleet maintenance planner get an NEC? Thats a hefty school...  

If you get dual warfare qualified during your first tour, then I think you didn't spend as much time learning your real job as you could have.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2011, 10:51 by Gamecock »
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drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 21, 2011, 10:58 »
My old ship strongly encouraged people to qualify air warfare. They even tied reactor plant qualifications to air warfare (E5&E6 not given PPWS cards until they had SW/AW) and at times they even made it a requirement for overnight liberty overseas.

I never got the airwarfare pin because of my general lack of tolerance and dislike for those who worked above the main deck, but it is becoming a requirement to be considered in the top tier of your department.

Secondary NEC's are entirely possible, I have one myself from attending Cummins Diesel Tech School, Have I ever used it? No.... Although I did find myself doing diesel maintenance a time or two because our engineman sucked.

The only reason that I went to that diesel school is because I was sitting around on shore duty and went shopping through the catalog for schools and thought it looked fun.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 21, 2011, 11:06 »
About 20% of it was over my head because I have no diesel experience....

The rest was cool, but I was mainly blown away by the enginemen community and their different approach to things.

I left thinking that I will never use any of this but glad I did it anyways.

I actually would say it was somewhat fun.

Offline a|F

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 21, 2011, 12:20 »
If you get dual warfare qualified during your first tour, then I think you didn't spend as much time learning your real job as you could have.

One of the few times I'd have to disagree with you.  Not knowing the how's and why's of an aircraft carrier's existence was embarrassing to me for a long time.  I can't speak for subs, but there is more than enough time to get any and everything done in 4 years on a carrier, be it SW/AW, PPWS, QA, Safety, degrees, etc, while also still being good at your job.  It's all about time management- here's my golden rule:  STUDY ON WATCH!  I realize that only nuke stuff is allowed, but that frees up a lot of time to persue other things. 

Most nukes chose to isolate themselves in the reactor world and fail to see all the good (and bad) things happening in other departments and areas of the ship.  A lot of this isolation stems from a false sense of entitlement and "greatness" that came with being a nuke which is BS.  Can it be a pain?  Sure, but most people give you a break cause you're already SW and clearly are doing it for your own (and the ship's benefit).  Did I mention how nice it was finally being able to explain the cool stuff when giving tours to family and friends?  And how many new friendships and networks developed? 

As others previously stated, this can fast track an E5 for PPWS quals which could earn you senior supervisory pay and a new NEC.  Who doesn't like more money? 

Offline DockeTT

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 21, 2011, 04:08 »
sub nuke diver still exists, I am one...  you can also get a recruiter NEC which is my third...  I'm sure there are plenty of other ways out there to get more if your really looking to branch out..

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 21, 2011, 06:53 »

If it takes you longer then 2 months to get your warfare pins, you're doing something wrong....


Two months?

Really?

In two months time you can become knowledgeable of all ship's systems?  You could stand-in for the helmsman if all other helmsman on the ship died?  You could look at a chart and determine the relative position of the ship?  You  could look at another ship on the horizon and know what it is, what weapons it carries, etc?

If you can't answer yes to all the above (and many more that I didn't ask) then you didn't earn your pin(s).

When we "required" people to "earn" a warfare pin, we really cheapened what it means and watered down what they need to know.

When I did the refueling on IKE, the CO ws proud of all his IKE warriors.  We had undesignated folks that were dual warfare "Qualified" and had never been underway.  Makes me sick when I think about it.  I guess that's why I was only ever asked to chair a qual board once..... I failed the PO2.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2011, 09:33 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline 730SMAG

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 21, 2011, 07:18 »
Can the average sailor ever truly become an expert on all systems, while maintaining a full level of competency in their own fields?


I qualified submarines, something I'm reasonably proud of. 

Does this mean that I could trace the entire hydraulic system?  No, but I knew where the key valves were and how to isolate it for damage control.  Does this mean that I can fire a torpedo?  No, but I knew the rough principles behind the system and I could use that to guide my use of a manual to load and fire one.  Could I send off a radio message?  Not without referencing a manual.  Steer the ship?  That I could do, actually, but I'd be damned if I'd ever be as good of a helmsman/planesman as a coner.  Use the sonar system?  By the book only, I'd have no idea what sounds meant what.  Launch a SLBM?  Hah, I don't think I could manage that with the books handy.

On the other hand, it meant that I knew the roles of each watchstation, each system, a rough idea of their function and their criticality to ship operations and safety.  How to fight a casualty, where to go to fight the casualty, etc.  Where a given panel was, where and how far each firehose could run, where the extinguishers were located, all of that sort of thing.  I don't think anyone could truly master every single watchstation and system onboard and maintain proficiency for their actual duties.

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 21, 2011, 07:59 »
First off, thanks for the response guys! I would have never guessed there were so many ways to branch outside of the nuclear field, other than what I had mentioned (diver) as well as ELTs/welders.

go here and enjoy;
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23196.msg135817.html#msg135817

Aaah, didn't see that, sorry!

I was under the impression sub nuke divers were a thing of the past. You CAN still qualify welder though after prototype. I dont remember, does fleet maintenance planner get an NEC? Thats a hefty school... 

Are MMs able to take that welding school anytime after the pipeline? Would they be able to do it anytime throughout their service after school?

We had undesignated folks that were dual warfare "Qualified" and had never been underway.  Makes me sick when I think about it.  I guess that's why I was only ever asked to chair a qual board once..... I failed the PO2.

 :o How did those undesignated sailors get warfare qualified without being underway?

Also, how would a Nuc go about receiving extra training towards a collateral duty? Is it offered to Nucs? Or can a Nuc who's demonstrated proficiency go and ask someone if they could attend?

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21, 2011, 09:48 »
Yes, sir. I'm definitely looking forward to hopefully being a Nuc, even with the extremely varying experiences that I've read about on this site. Recurring things I keep hearing are "Needs of the Navy", as well as "it is what you make of it." I just plan to make the most of it any way I can.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 21, 2011, 11:25 »
Hate to burst your bubble, but being warfare qualified while I was on the ship meant you had a decent understanding of the ships systems, by NO means an "expert". I learned quite a bit about things I never cared for, but all the same, that warfare pin does NOT make you a "system expert" on anything. Thats why the navy has "NEC's".

To be blunt. Not one person in our department could "man the helm". Thats why we have quartermasters.
I didnt care to understand the myriad of radar detection capabilities, I was more concerned with running my work center. I "didn't earn it" as you say. But if that's the case, then neither did the 1200 people that got their pins during that underway.
I was in your department. I honestly did every practical for ESWS because it got me out of the workday when I was whoa nubly and drove the ship twice from the bridge!

I learned how to handle communications with the conning officer (that right?) and then manned the helm for a good while. A Nuke LDO was standing watch up there and made sure I got my time.

I wanted to learn my stuff for ESWS and did. Most didn't and I remember thinking how big of a joke it was.

I almost got kicked out and even had to step outside for laughing my rear end off at a topsider who tought that the great white fleet was a demonstration of white power. ...... no joke.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:29 »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:33 »
PSSSH! I've never seen the helm of a carrier and I'd bet I could do it with out 5 minutes to familiarize myself with the controls.  8)
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:35 »
Yep, looks simple.  :P

"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:40 »
Not even close to looking like a Nimitz class helm. It's really easy.

I recall saying " make her course 080 aye sir. Sir, her course is 080 steady as she goes sir"

If you can drive a car in any video game and have the staring ability to feed generators in manual electric control.... You can drive a carrier.

I know that because I did it. Others think it takes a system expert. Have you met a carrier bos'un????

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:49 »
Not even close to looking like a Nimitz class helm. It's really easy.

I recall saying " make her course 080 aye sir. Sir, her course is 080 steady as she goes sir"

If you can drive a car in any video game and have the staring ability to feed generators in manual electric control.... You can drive a carrier.

I know that because I did it. Others think it takes a system expert. Have you met a carrier bos'un????

Yeah that was what the :P was for. I know it's not a Nimitz helm.

Speaking of video games, incidentally, video game skills are useful in a commercial nuke control room. ;)
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 12:49 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 22, 2011, 07:42 »
Sense of humor. You need one.

And...,

Point of warfare quals. You missed it.
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 08:11 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline MMM

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 22, 2011, 09:54 »
Back on topic, yes the nuclear planner school does give you a secondary NEC still. I've got 3 secondary NECs, planner, instructor, and whatever I got after Steam Plant Maintenance school 10 years ago.

GC, were you a sub guy? I know dolphins are a lot more in depth than ESWS and EAWS are (not from experience). ESWS should realistically take about 6-12 months, if you honestly do everything and your job as well, and you are not expected to be an expert on everything or able to man the helm if everybody died. EAWS should only take a couple months if you've qualified EAWS on a carrier, as you learn most of it during ESWS, at least that was my experience.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 22, 2011, 11:44 »
Back on topic, yes the nuclear planner school does give you a secondary NEC still. I've got 3 secondary NECs, planner, instructor, and whatever I got after Steam Plant Maintenance school 10 years ago.

GC, were you a sub guy? I know dolphins are a lot more in depth than ESWS and EAWS are (not from experience). ESWS should realistically take about 6-12 months, if you honestly do everything and your job as well, and you are not expected to be an expert on everything or able to man the helm if everybody died. EAWS should only take a couple months if you've qualified EAWS on a carrier, as you learn most of it during ESWS, at least that was my experience.
That means they dumbed it down so far (so everyone could do it) that if you learned to the little packet of expectations once, you probably knew it twice.

Offline DockeTT

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:39 »
Oh cool. Do they still offer nuke diver? I was just under the impression they were phasing out welders and divers from the nuke community is all. You sound like you've been in a while, thats why I ask.

I've been in 8 1/2 years...  I'm on my first shore duty as a nuke recruiter right now.  As far as I know, nuke diver still exists, as long as you are in better shape and more qualified than anyone from the cone.  I just left my boat in 2009 and it was still an option then.  On my boat all the divers happened to be nukes actually..

And to yayarea:

As far as getting extra schools and collateral duties, it's all about being fully qualified...  Once your fully qualified, and have proven yourself useful and capable of handling being a nuke and having a collateral duty, you just have to ask.  In addition to being a diver I was also the Command Fitness Leader on my boat.  Thats an extra school and another collateral duty.  I also, like everyone else in the division, had multiple divisional collateral duties.  Get qualified, learn the plant, do your job well, and they will be more than happy to let you go to schools and have extra duties.

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 22, 2011, 06:15 »
Thanks DockeTT, and to the rest of the guys as well. Just wondering, was there ever such thing as a triple warfare qualified Nuc? I've heard it was possible, but that sounds nuts.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 22, 2011, 06:19 »
Thanks DockeTT, and to the rest of the guys as well. Just wondering, was there ever such thing as a triple warfare qualified Nuc? I've heard it was possible, but that sounds nuts.

I've known quite a few. But if I recall, they don't wear all of them..., something about 2.

Someone in the know, will know about the uniform regs.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 22, 2011, 07:56 »
Wow, that's pretty crazy. If a sailor were to try and do that, they would have to go sub volunteer, right? My boss told me that once a sailor passes the psycho eval/training for subs, it would be extremely hard to get them off a boat due to the commodity they've become. If they DID go subs though, then how would they go about getting the other two pins?

Sorry for all the questions, useless depper over here!  :P
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 07:57 by yayarea »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 22, 2011, 08:32 »
Wow, that's pretty crazy. If a sailor were to try and do that, they would have to go sub volunteer, right? My boss told me that once a sailor passes the psycho eval/training for subs, it would be extremely hard to get them off a boat due to the commodity they've become. If they DID go subs though, then how would they go about getting the other two pins?

Sorry for all the questions, useless depper over here!  :P

Well, I didn't say it was common, but it is doable. I had a LELT that was on a nuke cruiser, then a GW class boomer, then the Enterprise, the a 688 class submarine. So..., like I said, anything is possible.

I also served with one JO on the boat who started his life out as an enlisted guy on a carrier. He got picked up for LDO and worked ship yards. He road our boat for a while..., so he had all three.

I also had a COB and 1 EDMC. With those things.

Pretty much one common thing was shared among them..., they were lifers+.

Justin
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 22, 2011, 08:52 »


dolphins =/= surface warfare. You do a couple walkthroughs, do a few prac facs, and people sign your books. You take a test, and do a generic board. I didnt make the system, the system is flawed. As gamecock said, when the navy mandated warfare, it probably took a bunch from it.

Sub guys and officers dont go through the same process surface people do. Sorry? Thats just how it is. At least in "todays navy".  It took me 3 weeks to complete the process they laid out for me. I chose not to get pinned as well.


You can reminisce about the days of old, but that doesnt do a damn thing about how things go on nowadays.


you wear your primary and secondary. A sub person switched to surface would wear dolphins until qualed surface warfare and air warfare. Those become your primary, unless you're a salty master chief and proud of your subwarfare. You wear a max of 2 with your uniform.



Thanks!

And, you've been cheated if you ask me. If it is that cheap to get warfare, that is sad.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline DockeTT

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #25 on: Jun 23, 2011, 09:58 »
I think the warfare qual thing can be a different experience for everyone depending on the command in place when your doing it.  On my boat qualifying subs was fairly rigorous.  The cone would hammer us on checkouts.  We also had to do a preboard that you had to pass to be able to do your actual board.  I think my preboard lasted 3+ hours and I had to draw 9 or 10 system drawings...  And if you didn't know where every last fire extinguisher on the boat was and what type it was you weren't qualifying no matter how smart you are..

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #26 on: Jun 23, 2011, 12:23 »
Well, I didn't say it was common, but it is doable. I had a LELT that was on a nuke cruiser, then a GW class boomer, then the Enterprise, the a 688 class submarine. So..., like I said, anything is possible.

I also served with one JO on the boat who started his life out as an enlisted guy on a carrier. He got picked up for LDO and worked ship yards. He road our boat for a while..., so he had all three.

Nuke cruiser!? I was under the impression that Nucs only served on carriers and subs! Wow, my research is seriously lacking. But anyways, might you have any idea how was the LELT able to flip flop back and forth like that? Do sailors regularly go back and forth between sub and surface?

It took me 2 weeks to get my qual cards filled out and about a month before I was able to do my board. Meanwhile, I was running a workcenter and getting ready for MTT's. So be it. Stupid warfare pin was useless to me other then a right to sleep.

Nubs qualed warfare were allowed in berthing. What are you thoughts on that?

Two weeks to fill out cards and a month to do board? To qualify subs? I'm really lost right now. I mean, I know of the whole process submariners go through to get their pins, but don't you have months to qualify?

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #27 on: Jun 23, 2011, 12:25 »
Nuke cruiser!? I was under the impression that Nucs only served on carriers and subs! Wow, my research is seriously lacking. But anyways, might you have any idea how was the LELT able to flip flop back and forth like that? Do sailors regularly go back and forth between sub and surface?

Two weeks to fill out cards and a month to do board? To qualify subs? I'm really lost right now. I mean, I know of the whole process submariners go through to get their pins, but don't you have months to qualify?

Back in "the day," there were nuclear powered cruisers as well. I don't know how he did what he did, but he was as salty as they come and he could tell sea stories for days on end..., and they were all interesting.

He was also as sleezy as they come, which is probably why he never made Chief. :) He was one of a few "gold cheveron" first classes I knew.

When he got to my boat as the LELT, I was the senior second doing his check chemistry. He says to me, "Oh, you guys really do primaries here?" :D So yeah, I had to take the lead on doing things right which was a struggle against this willingness to disregard the rules, but I managed and got to be LELT eventually.

I am still in touch with him to this day, even though he retired about 8 years ago.
« Last Edit: Jun 23, 2011, 12:27 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #28 on: Jun 23, 2011, 12:49 »
Nubs qualed warfare were allowed in berthing. What are you thoughts on that?
1) I believe it was Senior In Rate and warfare

2) Don't you have something to be working on?! ROFL ROFL



3) I'm sure that sub fellas without dolphins aren't getting as much sleep as their counterparts. I'd also wager it varies by command. You might need some post navy counseling to get the bitter thing out. Do I need to get my tape recorder and notebook out so you can come talk on my couch?



Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #29 on: Jun 23, 2011, 12:54 »

No, sailors dont flip flop routinely. Pick one and stick with it until you get DQ'ed subs, medical or other wise, which is usually how it works.


No, that isn't how it usually works.

Justin
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline goobs22xx

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #30 on: Jun 23, 2011, 01:10 »
No, that isn't how it usually works.

Justin

I think he meant that getting DQ'd is how community swapping usually works, not that getting DQ'd subs is what normally happens across the board.

Unless you were actually saying that more people swap for reasons other than submarine DQ...which wasn't true in my limited SPU(NUB) experience. We had a few guys qual'd fish and esws, but every one of them switched due to medical/psych stuff.

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #31 on: Jun 23, 2011, 01:15 »
I think he meant that getting DQ'd is how community swapping usually works, not that getting DQ'd subs is what normally happens across the board.

Unless you were actually saying that more people swap for reasons other than submarine DQ...which wasn't true in my limited SPU(NUB) experience. We had a few guys qual'd fish and esws, but every one of them switched due to medical/psych stuff.

Yes, that is what I am saying,,, that it isn't USUALLY DQ that causes the swap..., at least in my 9 years. Of all of the dual warfare people I knew, only 2 were DQs of some sort. The rest were hard charging individuals that had long term goals and being dual warfare was one of them. With some luck, smoozing, timing and needs of the Navy, one can swap.

Again, I didn't say it was easy or common, but it is doable.

And in my experience, it wasn't USUALLY because of a DQ.

I simply don't like how the fish states his generalities as fact, because they often aren't even close.
« Last Edit: Jun 23, 2011, 01:29 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #32 on: Jun 23, 2011, 01:28 »
The rest were hard charging individuals that had long term goals and being dual warfare was one of them. With some luck, smoozing, timing and needs of the Navy, one can swap.

Ah, good to know that it can happen without a bad look.  :P

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #33 on: Jun 23, 2011, 01:30 »
Ah, good to know that it can happen without a bad look.  :P

Well the one thing I do agree with, is that dual NECs and dual warfare are a long way off. Good long long term goals, but your short term goals neeed to be your primary NEC and warfare, and making sure you are an expert at your job.

Then, you can do these other things.

But I am sure you know that.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #34 on: Jun 23, 2011, 03:06 »
1) no. it was warfare and not dinq in quals.

2) ummm no.

3) ok???

every sub to surface ive met either went to a tender or medically dq'ed.



Irrelevant.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #35 on: Jun 23, 2011, 03:11 »
That makes your experience irrelevant as well.

I never stated what I said as fact or the way it "usually" was.

By the way, you are now on ignore.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline goobs22xx

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #36 on: Jun 23, 2011, 06:58 »
Interesting that our experiences were so opposite. Thanks for sharing :). I really had no idea, and Ive come in contact with a lot of people.

OP, as you can see, there's lots of doors that can be opened. Good luck with it. I hope you're as motivated three years from now as you are at this moment ;).

Yes, that is what I am saying,,, that it isn't USUALLY DQ that causes the swap..., at least in my 9 years. Of all of the dual warfare people I knew, only 2 were DQs of some sort. The rest were hard charging individuals that had long term goals and being dual warfare was one of them. With some luck, smoozing, timing and needs of the Navy, one can swap.

Again, I didn't say it was easy or common, but it is doable.

And in my experience, it wasn't USUALLY because of a DQ.

I simply don't like how the fish states his generalities as fact, because they often aren't even close.

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #37 on: Jun 23, 2011, 09:30 »
Well the one thing I do agree with, is that dual NECs and dual warfare are a long way off. Good long long term goals, but your short term goals need to be your primary NEC and warfare, and making sure you are an expert at your job.

Then, you can do these other things.

But I am sure you know that.

Yes, sir, definitely. I apologize if I seem as though I'm planning too far ahead, I would just like to have some idea of what could happen once I ship out.

OP, as you can see, there's lots of doors that can be opened. Good luck with it. I hope you're as motivated three years from now as you are at this moment  ;).

I appreciate it! It's a bit of a story, but I actually ended up regretting what I had done after high school and felt even worse when my brother received his appointment to the AF Academy. I needed to do something with myself; I just know this is one thing I'll try to make the most of and won't screw up for myself.
« Last Edit: Jun 23, 2011, 09:31 by yayarea »

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #38 on: Jun 23, 2011, 09:40 »
But if that's the case, then neither did the 1200 people that got their pins during that underway.

Sounds like more of Mullet's 'sword polishing'  >:(

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #39 on: Jun 24, 2011, 06:51 »
Yeah that was what the :P was for. I know it's not a Nimitz helm.

Speaking of video games, incidentally, video game skills are useful in a commercial nuke control room. ;)

Surface Warfare "Repel Boarders" Simulator for Gen Millenium Sea Warriors, circa 2020:
« Last Edit: Jun 24, 2011, 06:52 by HydroDave63 »

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #40 on: Jun 24, 2011, 07:26 »
I'm a sub guy, so I'm slanted toward the submarine service actual requirement to qualify subs.  This requirement is based on many factors, probably the biggest being that every member of the crew is responsible for making sure the number of surfaces equals the number of dives.  I've seen a handful of guys leave the sub service because they couldn't qualify.  IMHO, the surface navy tried to emulate the sub force and make surface warfare quals a requirement as a way to improve overall performance.  Selection Boards used to be briefed that getting ESWS was a tie-breaker.  Like everything else that creates a false standard, everybody started qualifying it. Eventually it became a bonafide requirement so it was no longer a big deal to earn the pin.  Air warfare quals are a nicety for a nuke.  When I sat an E-8 selection board, we were briefed by the Subject Matter Expert(s) that for certain rates EAWS was a "requirement".  For others (like nukes) EAWS quals was not a substitute for being successful as leader/mentor to junior enlisted.  For example, it was a big plus for Chief that his juniors had high advancement and retention rates.  I don't recall any nukes making the final cut based on EAWS quals.

WRT secondary NECs, your rating will determine what's available.  There is no such thing as "nuke" diver.  The reason there are so many nuclear divers is twofold:  (1) Nukes are the most knowledgable on SW systems and understand piping systems in general, so it's beneficial for the ship to have nuclear guys qualify dive.  and (2) Dive school is very challenging and a nuke who can meet the physical requirements will generally pass the mental and academic parts of the school based on their previous training. 
« Last Edit: Jun 24, 2011, 09:27 by DDMurray »
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #41 on: Jun 24, 2011, 02:33 »
I'm a sub guy, so I'm slanted toward the submarine service actual requirement to qualify subs.  This requirement is based on many factors, probably the biggest being that every member of the crew is responsible for making sure the number of surfaces equals the number of dives.  I've seen a handful of guys leave the sub service because they couldn't qualify.  IMHO, the surface navy tried to emulate the sub force and make surface warfare quals a requirement as a way to improve overall performance.  Selection Boards used to be briefed that getting ESWS was a tie-breaker.  Like everything else that creates a false standard, everybody started qualifying it. Eventually it became a bonafide requirement so it was no longer a big deal to earn the pin.  Air warfare quals are a nicety for a nuke.  When I sat an E-8 selection board, we were briefed by the Subject Matter Expert(s) that for certain rates EAWS was a "requirement".  For others (like nukes) EAWS quals was not a substitute for being successful as leader/mentor to junior enlisted.  For example, it was a big plus for Chief that his juniors had high advancement and retention rates.  I don't recall any nukes making the final cut based on EAWS quals.

WRT secondary NECs, your rating will determine what's available.  There is no such thing as "nuke" diver.  The reason there are so many nuclear divers is twofold:  (1) Nukes are the most knowledgable on SW systems and understand piping systems in general, so it's beneficial for the ship to have nuclear guys qualify dive.  and (2) Dive school is very challenging and a nuke who can meet the physical requirements will generally pass the mental and academic parts of the school based on their previous training. 

Good Observation.

My  [2cents]  (2 cents)
Being a Nuke MM (machinist mate) / SS (sub-warfare) / DV (diver) / Welder / QAI (quality assurance inspector) was easy.  Being on a Fast Attack Submarine, now that was a tough life.  Easy for me being single and not knowing any better.  Hard for those with any amount of time on Boomers or being Married.  Once you had an opportunity to see life on the other side of the Fast Attack Lifestyle you did not really want a second go (re: fast attack).

Being dual qualified did not mean much.  I was a Nuke MM.  I served on Sub's.  I filled billets for Nuke MM's with Welding as a secondary skill-set.  I could have performed as a diver on any particular Fast Attack sub I served (as long as I maintained my qual's).

It seemed the Surface folks had pay that matched mine even with all of my qual's and they went to sea less.  So, why did I volunteer for so much extra work?  (Answer: I was young and dumb.  Oh yeah and I was Fast Attack Tough!)

With all of these qual's I chose to exercise my true dual qualification.  I got out of the Navy.  And, returned to my other qualification ... Civilian.

You are your primary NEC.  And you will be placed into billets for your qual's if it serves a purpose.  Being an SS/DV didn't get me any special diners.  It only got me more extra work and fewer possible selections of sea going commands (based on the needs of the Navy).  This was on top of the extra work I had as a Nuke MM (primary) / Welder (secondary) / QAI (collateral duty).

Be careful what you wish for, as the expression so states, you just might get it.


drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #42 on: Jun 24, 2011, 06:39 »
It seemed the Surface folks had pay that matched mine even with all of my qual's and they went to sea less.  So, why did I volunteer for so much extra work?  (Answer: I was young and dumb.  Oh yeah and I was Fast Attack Tough!)



I'm going to need some proof of this "yet another reason sub guys are more awesome that's totally bs" claim.


Offline 730SMAG

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #43 on: Jun 24, 2011, 06:44 »
I thought we had this entire conversation before in another thread...

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #44 on: Jun 24, 2011, 07:13 »

I'm going to need some proof of this "yet another reason sub guys are more awesome that's totally bs" claim.
If your criteria of who's exceptional is based on who took the easy road, then no amount of proof will be enough. 
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #45 on: Jun 24, 2011, 08:06 »
If your criteria of who's exceptional is based on who took the easy road, then no amount of proof will be enough. 

You sub guys are truly amazing. You worked so exceptionally hard for everything and qualified on your much more difficult and confusing plant. You were hand picked from the pipeline to demonstrate your godlike ability to share a rack with another man and identify fire extinguishers. You sacrificed the daylight (that we enjoyed everyday? Go stick your face next to your car exhaust while your kids slams the gas pedal in park and take it all in) and the sight of the many beautiful women that we served with. Your deployments were longer (ROFL) and your beards were amazing. I can't think you enough for the amazing level of sacrifice you made by getting assigned to a sinking tube. I am starting to think that sub guys spend their watches talking about how awesome they are and superior they must be to their surface counterparts. Surface guys sit around not talking about sub guys, because we don't care and realize that essentially, we did the same thing.

But you guys are right. So here ya go:

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #46 on: Jun 24, 2011, 08:08 »
5 other threads,...

This happens every time,....

Every dam time,... [coffee]
Sorry....

On Topic: go to Cummins Diesel School if you get a chance! Nukes need to spend more time smelling like diesel after what we do.There ya go, back on the tracks...

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #47 on: Jun 24, 2011, 09:50 »
Sorry....

On Topic: go to Cummins Diesel School if you get a chance! Nukes need to spend more time smelling like diesel after what we do.There ya go, back on the tracks...
  You might even smell like a submariner, if you're lucky.  Draper, that is nice fish in your picture. 
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #48 on: Jun 24, 2011, 09:53 »
You sub guys are truly amazing.

Thanks. (Fox News editing)
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #49 on: Jun 27, 2011, 01:37 »


I'm going to need some proof of this "yet another reason sub guys are more awesome that's totally bs" claim.



Okay, let me give this a try.   

First, I believe you mis-interpreted my meaning.  I was attempting to say being on a sub is a lot of extra work without any extra pay.  But, read it however you like.

Second, All but one A School Instructor was a SS when I went through.  All but one NNPS Instructor was a SS when I went through.  All but one Proto Instructor was a SS when I went through.  In the first two they were Section Advisor's (both white men).  The last was a black female Chief Electrician Mate Instructor.

So, I guess you are trying to overcompensate with your response.   

Third, 80% of my Proto Class Vol'd for Sub's.  1 in 5 got one.  And, we left open spots.  It did not say anything about our intelligence.  Getting selected came down to Effort and Attitude.

So, you either did not want a sub (< 20%) or you were the rejected (highest probability).  Either way you appear to be projecting in an effort to compensate for the commonly accepted fact that submariners are superior sailor's.  Of course it's all subconscious.   


You sub guys are truly amazing.

Thank you.

You worked so exceptionally hard for everything and qualified on your much more difficult and confusing plant.

Yes we did and I doubt it, but if you say so.

You were hand picked from the pipeline to demonstrate your godlike ability to share a rack with another man and identify fire extinguishers. You sacrificed the daylight (that we enjoyed everyday?

"godlike", uh dude we never said that.  What a stupid commit.  But, other than that "we" were hand picked.  I'm glad you can admit we demonstrated a unique control of our emotions to submerge, and sink targets, and re-appear on command.  So, as you can see the only need for fire-extinguishers was to put out the fires we started on the targets (i.e. surface ships) we torpedoed.

Go stick your face next to your car exhaust while your kids slams the gas pedal in park and take it all in) and the sight of the many beautiful women that we served with.

Really, you went to sea to view women?  First, that means you were not doing your job and second, you have no control over women.  Everyman on a sub was secure in his manhood.  I am beginning to doubt yours.

Your deployments were longer (ROFL) and your beards were amazing. I can't think you enough for the amazing level of sacrifice you made by getting assigned to a sinking tube. I am starting to think that sub guys spend their watches talking about how awesome they are and superior they must be to their surface counterparts. Surface guys sit around not talking about sub guys, because we don't care and realize that essentially, we did the same thing.

Obviously we will have to agree to disagree about deployment times.  It is completely subjective and depends on the years you served.


But if you think I'm being mean then please review the definition of mean:
Quote




MacGyver

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #50 on: Jun 27, 2011, 01:56 »
You sub guys are truly amazing.

I forgot to mention that at my current Commercial Nuclear Plant I can count on one hand the number of Surface Sailors' and the remaining 99% of Ex-Navy Nukes that fill Commercial Nuclear Plant Operations are Submarine Sailors'.

So, I guess being DUEL (pun) Qualified only means you lost the Duel in terms of Qualified Commercial Nuclear Plant personnel, eh?!?!?!  So, I guess we are better.   ;) ;D :o ;) :P :P :P :P 8)







I'm just having a little fun with you great forum surface sailor's.  Because without you all we wouldn't have had anything to hunt and kill.    :P

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #51 on: Jun 27, 2011, 03:15 »
I forgot to mention that at my current Commercial Nuclear Plant I can count on one hand the number of Surface Sailors' and the remaining 99% of Ex-Navy Nukes that fill Commercial Nuclear Plant Operations are Submarine Sailors'.

So, I guess being DUEL (pun) Qualified only means you lost the Duel in terms of Qualified Commercial Nuclear Plant personnel, eh?!?!?!  So, I guess we are better.   ;) ;D :o ;) :P :P :P :P 8)







I'm just having a little fun with you great forum surface sailor's.  Because without you all we wouldn't have had anything to hunt and kill.    :P

Same here, as far as SS vs SW in the commercial world, in my experience. Also, a lot of the management I've worked for were ex MM/ELTs.

"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Marlin

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #52 on: Jun 27, 2011, 03:20 »
MM/ELT/SS the best of the best.  8)  [coffee]

 


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