Common mistakes/weaknesses in new RCTs that compromise safety

[GLW]

......And BTW, OSHA DOES control vehicle safety in its construction standard.  You guys should have known that.

we DID know that,...

this:

WOW, JUST WOW.

Cars WOULD be controlled if they were a leading WORKPLACE-RELATED cause of death.  This topic is about the workplace, not homelife.

is your typed statement,......not ours,.....

[GLW]

I do agree with you to a point. There is really no a one size fits all solution. I feel that common sense along with a strong sense of awareness play a huge role in the strength of an RCT. There are times when a certain RCT is way out their league experience wise, and some just lack the common sense needed , as well as a constant sense of awareness to cover certain work.  The experience and qualifications needed for an RCT / HP covering short duration refuel outage type work differs greatly , then say DOE research work. And vice versa .   Though I come from the commercial world initially, I have worked on the outside for the last 15 years, as have many RCT’s due to short duration of outages.  The facility that I have currently worked at for the last five years is very unique, one of only a couple in the world. The majority of the long term contractors that have worked for me over the last few years come in very under qualified to support and cover work here.  For the most part these have very been qualified, and competent RCT’s, and have had a willingness to expand their technical knowledge.  This facility has many exotic isotopes, Including many trans – uranic. Routine high rad and high contamination work is performed daily all year round. The majority of technicians that come to work here from commercial power have never worked with DAC values of E-12, and have never seen most of the isotopes that we work with, accept in the chart of nuclides. Unless I see that the RCT is seriously lacking basic HP knowledge, and or, is lacking serious common sense, I allow time for the learning curve.  As they progress, so will their work load. It is far more beneficial to bring them up to speed, rather then reassign, or let them go.  Aside from the actual Rad work that is performed, we cover much of the IH work performed in the field as well.  Also, interacting with the researchers can have it’s own challenges as well, so there is a serious learning curve there as well.

well said,....

[RDTroja]

You are not better at controlling risk--there is just such a minimal risk, you are lulled into that fallacy.  Then when some major incident happens, you are all like newborns.

And BTW, OSHA DOES control vehicle safety in its construction standard.  You guys should have known that.

I had no idea you had watched us all react to a major incident... is that you, God?

 

[atomicarcheologist]

Great thread. I have to laugh at superiority mentality of the power plant people. It's so much fun having them on a dirt job, the know-it-alls. Some,as soon as they get their hands on a Model 19, get so confused looking for the beta slide and you can hear the rusty gears turning to figure out the reading in "real radiation" terms. I've had 25 year Srs dig yyards of extra material from the corners of a trench and when asked why they had that much excavated replied that they did that because it was twice, or three times the rest of the surface instead of doing the math for a juncture of planes. I have more, bit not enough time.

[RDTroja]

Great thread. I have to laugh at superiority mentality of the power plant people. It's so much fun having them on a dirt job, the know-it-alls. Some,as soon as they get their hands on a Model 19, get so confused looking for the beta slide and you can hear the rusty gears turning to figure out the reading in "real radiation" terms. I've had 25 year Srs dig yyards of extra material from the corners of a trench and when asked why they had that much excavated replied that they did that because it was twice, or three times the rest of the surface instead of doing the math for a juncture of planes. I have more, bit not enough time.

Working in a power plant and working on a 'dirt job' are two entirely different animals. Yes, radiation is radiation, but there the similarities end. Most techs that 'grow up' in one industry are like fish out of water in the other and moving in either direction can expose (sorry for that) any number of holes in one's experience level. I have seen plenty of 'dirt' techs that came to a plant and were worse than first year juniors (mostly because they didn't know that they didn't know) and others that did quite well after the initial 'adjustment' period. The same can be said for ex-navy techs. I am a product of commercial power and I am sure I would be uncomfortable (at least for a while) trying to go to a remediation site (or into the navy if that were even possible  .) Saying that the 'power plant people' have a superiority mentality is no more accurate than the reverse... as evidenced by your post. Neither industry, nor the people in them, are inherently better or worse. Both have enough similarities to allow cross-over employment and enough differences to make the transition less than smooth.

[Ksheed]

Working in a power plant and working on a 'dirt job' are two entirely different animals. Yes, radiation is radiation, but there the similarities end. Most techs that 'grow up' in one industry are like fish out of water in the other and moving in either direction can expose (sorry for that) any number of holes in one's experience level. I have seen plenty of 'dirt' techs that came to a plant and were worse than first year juniors (mostly because they didn't know that they didn't know) and others that did quite well after the initial 'adjustment' period. The same can be said for ex-navy techs. I am a product of commercial power and I am sure I would be uncomfortable (at least for a while) trying to go to a remediation site (or into the navy if that were even possible  .) Saying that the 'power plant people' have a superiority mentality is no more accurate than the reverse... as evidenced by your post. Neither industry, nor the people in them, are inherently better or worse. Both have enough similarities to allow cross-over employment and enough differences to make the transition less than smooth.

There is no need to be sorry. A nuke forum where you have to apologize for a radcon pun is a nuke forum I don't want to be a part of.

[RadRooster]

Working in a power plant and working on a 'dirt job' are two entirely different animals. Yes, radiation is radiation, but there the similarities end. Most techs that 'grow up' in one industry are like fish out of water in the other and moving in either direction can expose (sorry for that) any number of holes in one's experience level. I have seen plenty of 'dirt' techs that came to a plant and were worse than first year juniors (mostly because they didn't know that they didn't know) and others that did quite well after the initial 'adjustment' period. The same can be said for ex-navy techs. I am a product of commercial power and I am sure I would be uncomfortable (at least for a while) trying to go to a remediation site (or into the navy if that were even possible  .) Saying that the 'power plant people' have a superiority mentality is no more accurate than the reverse... as evidenced by your post. Neither industry, nor the people in them, are inherently better or worse. Both have enough similarities to allow cross-over employment and enough differences to make the transition less than smooth.

I agree whole heartedly. I "grew up" on a dirt job and the transition to commercial was a bumpy one. I think I came through it fairly well but realize that I still have a lot to learn in both arenas. I have worked with just about every variety of tech, Navy Nuke, commercial and "dirt" techs. Some good and some not so good regardless of where they leanred their craft. it all depends on their attitude as well as the attitude of the people they are working with i.e not looking down on others because of where they came from.  My cent an a half.

RR

[OldHP]

Working in a power plant and working on a 'dirt job' are two entirely different animals. Yes, radiation is radiation, but there the similarities end. Most techs that 'grow up' in one industry are like fish out of water in the other and moving in either direction can expose (sorry for that) any number of holes in one's experience level. I have seen plenty of 'dirt' techs that came to a plant and were worse than first year juniors (mostly because they didn't know that they didn't know) and others that did quite well after the initial 'adjustment' period. The same can be said for ex-navy techs. I am a product of commercial power and I am sure I would be uncomfortable (at least for a while) trying to go to a remediation site (or into the navy if that were even possible  .) Saying that the 'power plant people' have a superiority mentality is no more accurate than the reverse... as evidenced by your post. Neither industry, nor the people in them, are inherently better or worse. Both have enough similarities to allow cross-over employment and enough differences to make the transition less than smooth.

There are many different 'animals' out there!  The Navy program, the DOE world, the DOD (non NNP) world, Commercial Power, the NORM/TENORM world, the University world, the Medical world, the 'dirt' D&D world, etc.  They have similarities, but all have differences - Dose rates, Contamination levels, expected DAC-hrs, etc.  At this point in this 'old mans' life I've been fortunate to have worked in most, but I have only found a few techs that I could take anywhere.

In my commercial days there were Navy, Medical, DOE, etc., Techs that I gave full credit to after a month, others that remained juniors until we ran them off.  I've seen the same on D&D, etc. projects where a great commercial tech had the attitude that 'at these levels it's not worth measuring'.

As had been said before, the RPM/RSO has to make the decision, after careful consideration and (hopefully) personal observation, what he/she can consider in stating this Technician is fully qualified for this job!

Just my  worth! 

 

[Bonds 25]

One thing I would like to see changed is the process of putting workers in excess PC's (talking mostly plastics) in high heat stress areas of the plant (wet well for example) because we are afraid of a little contamination getting on their skin.
 
Heat stress (stroke) is a serious health concern......getting 8000 dpm/PA on somebody's elbow...not so much. Getting a PCE nowdays is like the end of the world (thanks INPO) and I'm afraid we are so concerned on making our "PCE Goal" that we sometimes forget that extra PCs isn't always the safest method we should be instituting.

[surf50]

I agree, but as long as PCE's are a performance metric for outage goals, it's not likely to happen. The South Florida plants I grew up on had (and probably still do) numerous cases of people collapsing inside/exiting containment during the initial and final days of an outage.
Unless that person gets transported offsite, it doesn't seem to count for much.

You do get used to it, but it's not fun. 100+ degrees/high humidity/vapor barriers = a miserable time.
That's a big reason I don't work those places anymore.

[SloGlo]

One thing I would like to see changed is the process of putting workers in excess PC's (talking mostly plastics) in high heat stress areas of the plant (wet well for example) because we are afraid of a little contamination getting on their skin.
 

saunas n steem rooms are grate conditioning tools. 

[hamsamich]

Just heard at the last plant I was at (during the "RPM" talk) that some corners at INPO are debating the overblown importance of "low range" PCEs.  Maybe safety, heat stress and dose will receive more of the importance they have long deserved.  I'm sure PCEs will still be somewhat overblown no matter what, but maybe we will go in the right direction as an industry?     Don't know the specifics, should have asked more questions.

[SloGlo]

Just heard at the last plant I was at (during the "RPM" talk) that some corners at INPO are debating the overblown importance of "low range" PCEs. 

aye am thinking that a hole knew generation of personnel contamination discussion has bean born.

[Bonds 25]

Our RPM told us the same thing......

We will see during our 2015 spring outage if it has any weight. I sure hope so......although our 1st 2014 PCE (500 cpm speck on the bottom of a shoe) certainly seemed like a major event.