Radiation Safety Worker Pipeline

[Rennhack]

Excuse my Ignorance, but what Pipeline?

At the Exelon outages I was at recently, the Sr Deconners (the ones I thought should become HP's) and the Jr HP's... did not have copies of the NUF study guide.  As part of the 'pipeline', that should be standard issue, no?

[shovelheadred]

...This Pipeline is beginning to sound like a "pipe dream"...that sounds good on paper, but isn't being used  by the techs, or available to them  by "the pipe maker"..

[Brett LaVigne]

...This Pipeline is beginning to sound like a "pipe dream"...that sounds good on paper, but isn't being used by the techs, or available to them by "the pipe maker"..

Right on, my point exactally. It is a good idea and I have seen it work beautifully in a past life outside this industry. However, you can't roll something like this out before it has actually been designed. There should be a documented path of how someone gets from A to B to C. There should also be a company Champion of the program.

I am not going to beat up Bartlett too much on this because I think that they are on to something with trying to develop a program of career advancement for their employee's. We shouldn't spit on the idea because ultimately, it could benefit all of us. We should however, apply pressure in a professional mannor to encourage them to develop the program so it works for us. Blasting an idea without offering potential solutions does nothing but create bad or worse feelings. If Bartlett is REALLY making an attempt to be an employer of choice, we as employee's, should help facilitate it. If it is just lingo to make it SOUND like they are trying to do the right things, it will be validated by a lack of action on the companies part and encourage us employee's to continue to lose faith. Time and actions will tell.

[Rennhack]

There should also be a company Champion of the program.

That was a well written, and professional responce.  Karma to you.

Jerry Hyatt is the Company Champion, in charge of this program.  He is the guy that has set up the connections with the colleges, and has gone around to many sites promoting it, and asking for feedback.

[Brett LaVigne]

That was a well written, and professional responce.  Karma to you.

Jerry Hyatt is the Company Champion, in charge of this program.  He is the guy that has set up the connections with the coledges, and has gone around to many sites promoting it, and asking for feedback.

I appreciate that Mike. I just don't like to jump on the band wagon that Bartlett (or name your company) is evil because everyone says they are and because we don't really get the deal we might deserve. Having the experience of working outside of this industry and ironically having the responsibility of being the operations change agent and lead on the employee development program helps me understand that it is much easier said than done. There are tons of challenges associated with this kind of project and company culture shift. One of the biggest was selling the fact that the company is dedicated to positive change for the future and ridding ourselves of the mistakes of the past. I don't know what Bartlett is up to exactally but I am not going to immediately shoot them down for attempting something new.

I understand that my stance doesn't win me any karma from those who have been wronged or feel like they have been wronged by Bartlett in the past (fortunately, I am not in that group) but I don't look at these threads as a popularity contest either. I believe there is some truth to the many stories about games being played by some of the recruiters but it hasn't been my experience so, I write from MY experience.

I am one of the very lucky techs that was able to get in on the Diablo outages and like many, would love to see a few more plants offer this type of deal. I think that it is probably unlikely that we will see more than a hand full of plants want to take on the extra responsibilities so that leaves us with Big Blue as the major market share holder for commercial outages. Thats OK with me if they are wanting to partner with us in career development and more aggressively manage these utility accounts to ensure a more secure financial future for the group as a whole and provide a better product for our utility customers. It is a win/win.

If this is indeed just smoke and mirrors and they continue to accept the level of technician that they have been getting (and that may be the case, I don't know at this point), they won't survive and I won't want to be part of a company that promotes that culture. In the meantime, I want to encourage them to do the right things for us, our customers and themselves.

I am really not trying to sound like a company spokesperson, I just think that slinging mud is an ineffective approach. I think Bartlett has plenty of improvements to make. From simple things like expediting direct deposit to improving compensation packages through better contract agreements and management and did I mention expediting direct deposit?!!! 

[Rennhack]

If this is indeed just smoke and mirrors and they continue to accept the level of technician that they have been getting (and that may be the case, I don't know at this point), they won't survive and I won't want to be part of a company that promotes that culture. In the meantime, I want to encourage them to do the right things for us, our customers and themselves.

Brett, another excellent post.

I did say that Bartlett is working with colleges, and placing the graduates.

What I have not seen, and would like to see, is more training on site by the Bartlett rep for their technicians.  I would like to see every technician with a copy of a study guide.  And I would like weekly assignments for those technicians on chapters.  We could call it..."Continuing Training"...  The super techs can ace it without studying, and the rest can brush up on their knowledge.  – That's what I would do.

[Already Gone]

That is the beauty of this site.
You guys are starting to talk sense.  That continuing training idea isn't such a stretch, is it?  Really, start handing out those study guides, along with practice modules.  Make some of the more seasoned techs OJT instructors and pay them a premium (not just on one site's OJT procedure, but one for all Bartlett) to train and sign off the newer techs.
This pipeline thing CAN work, as long as there is some meat behind it - but not if you just promote the next guy in line to fill a hole.

The reason I have been so skeptical?  Refer to the last line of Brett's las post.  If you want to change the big things, you have to start with the small things.  If they can't or won't get direct deposit after all these years, what makes us think they can or will put forth the money and effort to train techs beyond giving them the answers to the NUF?
Mr. Warren, Calling Dave Warren, If you are here Dave... how long after you get hired into a company does it take for DD to get started?

[RAD-GHOST]

Troy,

No it's not!  Actually it would be quite easy with a group effort, but where to start and what to include?

Direct Deposit:  Two payroll checks with everybody I have worked for, including Bartlett on the DOE side.

[vikingfan]

I'll answer that also. with my employer i had DD on my first pay period !! oh what does a hard copy check look like ? ...LOL

[Already Gone]

Troy,

No it's not!  Actually it would be quite easy with a group effort, but where to start and what to include?

Direct Deposit:  Two payroll checks with everybody I have worked for, including Bartlett on the DOE side.

How about INPO?  NANTeL has managed to come up with a training standard for lots of aspects of nuclear work that are adaptable or acceptable industry-wide.  A standardized curriculum could be established that would cover the basic and common qualifications of an RP tech.  Site specifics could be reduced to a single day for contract techs.

Even though computer-based training totally sucks the big one, the idea of non-site-specific training with a computerized database works in other areas, why not RP?  Need to staff a job with qualified people, and not just warm bodies?  You can cross-reference the database to ensure that you didn't send all the techs qualified on S/G coverage to a BWR, or that you have enough people signed off on CRD removal going there.  Eventually, you will have so many people documented to do both that the flexibility will amaze you.  Returnees?  Yeah, they will still be desirable, but not to the point that you can't get in the door if you aren't one.  Just flash your quals at them and they don't have to worry that you are not a returnee.  Everybody knows the real reason for favoring returnees is to ensure that you don't have to retrain everyone from scratch.

If such a database existed, there wouldn't be any more resume doctoring - resumes will become obsolete for outage staffing purposes.  Nobody would get moved from Jr. HP to 18.1 to 3.1 without ever having covered a job.  (Do NOT try to tell me that this doesn't happen now.  It has always happened)   Nobody right out of the Navy gets a free pass without having do demonstrate ability.

That's pretty much the how.  The who is simple - who profits from techs being qualified?  Answer: The techs, the companies they work for, and the customers they serve.  The customers put up the money for a higher-quality product.  The companies use the new revenue to finance the programs, and the techs participate or they don't get work.

[Dave Warren]

That is the beauty of this site.
You guys are starting to talk sense.  That continuing training idea isn't such a stretch, is it?  Really, start handing out those study guides, along with practice modules.  Make some of the more seasoned techs OJT instructors and pay them a premium (not just on one site's OJT procedure, but one for all Bartlett) to train and sign off the newer techs.
This pipeline thing CAN work, as long as there is some meat behind it - but not if you just promote the next guy in line to fill a hole.

The reason I have been so skeptical?  Refer to the last line of Brett's las post.  If you want to change the big things, you have to start with the small things.  If they can't or won't get direct deposit after all these years, what makes us think they can or will put forth the money and effort to train techs beyond giving them the answers to the NUF?
Mr. Warren, Calling Dave Warren, If you are here Dave... how long after you get hired into a company does it take for DD to get started?

It is what I refer to as instant.
A certain company that employs BeerCourt and myself, is capable of doing something instantly. No questions asked.
The amount of time it takes you to to fill out the direct deposit form is about how long it takes them to process it.
Poetry in motion boys. It can be accomplished.

[Rennhack]

I don't remember how long it took my Bartlett direct deposit to hit, I would guess 2 pay cycles, 2 weeks.

I do remember that back in 2001 it took SEC more than 8 weeks.  Not only did they not get the direct deposit right, they didn't pay me at all.  They claimed it was getting deposited when it wasn't.  I ended up having to open up a NEW checking account, because they never got it right with my normal account. (When I say 'they' and 'sec', it's really just one inept waist of air that no longer workers there.)

I recently worked for Shaw, they pay every 2 weeks, hold back 1 week and direct deposit hits on the second pay cycle (very standard, they send one out as a test), so 5 weeks later, you have direct deposit.  -- I worked for them twice back to back, and I had to fill out the forms each time to get it set back up. It took 5 weeks both times, just in time to get laid off.

If I sound grouchy, it's because I started to do my taxes.

[Shawnee Man]

OJTs and OJTPEs. Just going thru with ones who are experienced takes a while. Peach Bottom does this every once in a while. The outages these days dont last long enough to have all these sessions, unless these are all being done on free time.


PS: Taxes, thats what accountants are for.

[Smart People]

Bartlett has a new rule that you have to have worked 1000 hrs with them since Jan 2006 to receive DD (unless you've already had it). I guess that is so they only do it for their regulars. I'm sure EB can explain it for us.

[Rennhack]

Bartlett has a new rule that you have to have worked 1000 hrs with them since Jan 2006 to receive DD (unless you've already had it). I guess that is so they only do it for their regulars. I'm sure EB can explain it for us.

Try searching, EB HAS explained it already.

2 karma points to the first person that links to it.

[illegalsmile]

AS I've mentioned a couple of times, I work for the government now. They got my DD going in time for my first paycheck. If they can do it, I'd think anybody could.

[RAD-GHOST]

Got to love this thread, anybody remember the Original Topic?   

RG..

[Brett LaVigne]

Got to love this thread, anybody remember the Original Topic?   

RG..

Uhhhhhhhhhhh...Direct Deposit, I got mine, you got yours?...

[Already Gone]

Like all threads, this one has drifted.  I take the blame.  I was merely pointing out that Bartlett is claiming to be making monumental change in the career development of its employees - while they are seemingly unable to make a simple change in payroll that every other company in the whole US of A has made years ago.

It takes a few minutes to put a new employee on DD.  A rehire takes no time at all.  Why Bartlett thinks we should believe that it takes longer is a mystery to me.  It is just sooooo hard to trust somebody who tells you something that is contradicted by every other experience that you have in the world.  This is my advice to the gang at Bartlett:  If you are going to tell me that your eyes are blue, you should have blue eyes.  If you would stare at me with big brown peepers and tell me that yours were as blue as the autumn sky, then I would be a fool to believe anything you ever say.  Likewise, if you are going to try to feed us this line about how this or that is so difficult or impossible - when we KNOW otherwise - don't be surprised when everything you say is met with skepticism.

Especially to Eric, I want to say that I have always appreciated you coming here to give us your side of the story.  It often has cleared up many an urban myth or killed a nasty rumor.  But, you have a job of work ahead of you when you try to convince this crowd that anything the company does is going to be any different from what it has always done.

[RAD-GHOST]

Hopefully ERIC or another BARTLETT Representative will bring the thread back on track.  I'm sure that Eric's posting was of interest to many of the members of this site.  I'm also sure that a lot of members have the same question that I do, "What are you Selling"?  Has Bartlett finally decided to invest in the industry?  Are they willing to provide funding and resources to improve the quality of their staff?  I'm also sure that many of their customers are asking the same question!

RG

[Meltdown]

I just stumbled across this thread - busy season and all that. It makes for interesting reading on both sides; thanks to all the contributors.

I've been observing what's coming through the pipeline for a few years now and have been growing more and more appalled at what passes for an RP tech. This field seemed at one time to be the last great meritocracy - if you had the knowledge it didn't matter whether you got it from the Navy, the University, or that copy of Gollnick you found in the breakroom. You mastered the knowledge, and if you applied yourself you got the opportunity to use it and progressed.

I spend a lot of time at a large southern utility. The pay is very low compared to the rest of the country, but they never have a problem staffing, because over the years they have shown that they will take any warm body and give them a meter. I recently attended training on a new Alpha procedure with a roomful of JR & Sr techs just coming in for an outage. We lost 25 minutes while the staff scientist tried to shepherd the room through three division problems. I'm not talking about air sample calculations or half lifes - I mean A divided by B = C. There was a calculator at each position, but fully a third of the room had that deer in the headlights look and had to be shown how to do it. I understand that a sizable number took the full 1.5 or 2 hours to complete a 25 question open book test with maybe 4 calculations.

I'm not trying to be elitist, and I'm no huge math wizard (thank God for Excel), but I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that an RP be as familiar with a calculator as he/she is with an RO-2. Maybe a senior could even be able to explain the difference between a frisker and an ion chamber?

As Deep Throat once said to Woodward (or was it Bernstein?) "follow the money". There is no financial incentive for a company to spend money adding value to a product when the customer is perfectly satisfied with the product as it is. If you're happy with Miller Lite are you going to pay $8 for a 4-pack of Samuel Smith? If the contract company provides the utility with the required number of warm bodies who can strap on a meter like a crossing guard with a Sam Browne belt, it makes no difference to anyone at all if half of them are semi-literate and innumerate. The bonus for the customer is that these people aren't likely to slow things down by remembering bothersome procedures, or that 10CFR thing. They also send the rest of us the message that we could be replaced with a mop handle if necessary.

Here's a fun solution - maybe we could make the NUF random just like the whizz quiz. That would give those study guides a workout. Just think of all the inane breakroom conversations you wouldn't have to listen to. That alone gives the idea merit.

Y'all have a nice day, y' hear?

[SloGlo]

as sum won whose bin inside 'n outside da pipeline, i kin tell ya it's way better on the outside. 

[let-it-ride]

I think the Utility Companies see an advantage in just having warm bodies sitting at control points. Then the work can get done without much interference from the HP's.
I was once told by a GE Manager that HP stands for "Holding up Progress".
If the HP's become care takers, and there are no accidents, etc. Groovy.

[Old HP]

The definition for " HP Tech " in Webster's Dictionary is " biological speed bump"