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What is the Greatest Benefit (to the Employer) of Hiring Outage Personnel Directly?

High Returnee Rate
5 (20%)
Happy Workforce
2 (8%)
Harder Working Workforce
4 (16%)
Lower Costs (Since They Don't Have to Pay the Middle-Man)
9 (36%)
Other (Please Specify)
5 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Benefits of Direct Hire  (Read 30058 times)

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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Benefits of Direct Hire
« on: Feb 16, 2008, 11:55 »
Have heard that a couple of utilities are currently examining the pros & cons of bypassing the contract companies and hiring us directly. 

This system has worked well at Diablo Canyon and I'd like to see it elsewhere, so...if anyone can think of additional benefits to the utility, let's let them know.  :)
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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #1 on: Feb 17, 2008, 04:35 »
Uncabuffalo,

That's a tuff choice!  I have to go with the Economics Perspective!  After all, what isn't influenced by a budget today?  Every facility promotes the same issues, Safety, Quality and Regulatory Compliance.  The common thread between them all is COST!  The equation seems pretty simple, the customer accepts the additional costs of the middle man, the worker makes a decision on the anti-quated compensation package supplied by the contract companies and the middle laughs all the way to the bank!

Diablo Canyon: 

I communicate with several techs currently working the facility and I hear nothing but flattery for the RP program and the site.  Strangely enough they seem to be doing the same old stuff that every other facility does, but the atmosphere and attitudes seem well above the norm!  I assume that suppling an adequate compensation package, (minus the middle man), has it's merits!  Of course some Industry Icons, (with a self serving agenda), promote DC's hiring practice as a negative perspective for staffing.  I would really hate to be in a position where I get to choose the talent that arrives at my site, vs. accepting what show's up at the gate!   

Must be nice not hearing that same old line of bull, "We only pay what the Contract Allows"!  You know the one I'm talking about, the contract you can't see with 1001 disclaimers!

Diablo Canyon T-Shirt........ ;)

"DCHP, We have the Best, You got the Rest"!        8)

I hope that ain't to tacky........Taker Easy, RG!


« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2008, 04:40 by RAD-GHOST »

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #2 on: Feb 17, 2008, 05:35 »
I am almost at the point of not liking to talk about the Diablo experience because it ends up sounding like bragging...Ieeeee work at Diablo Canyon, and don't you wish you were me...
Truth is, I wish all of my buddy HP's that are stellar techs could have this, and there are a ton of stellar techs that have not had the pleasure and would fit right in here. With that said, here is my opinion on the positives of hiring direct for outages. I didn't vote because it would only allow me to pick one.

Hiring direct allows the tech to see a bit more in their paycheck and makes them feel like they are appreciated and getting a fair deal. This makes it so most everyone wants to work that plant in turn flooding the utility with resumes. Now the ball is in the utilities court. Here at Diablo you don't get in without at least a couple of people referring you so the utility gets only techs that have someone sticking their neck out for them. It creates an environment of teamwork and people that are more than willing to do the small and large things that make the outage safe and successfull.

When I receive turnover from another tech, I almost don't even have to question whether or not I was set up to succeed, it's just expected.

Most of us have worked a plant or two that was in the situation of being on INPO's hit list with a 3 rating or maybe on the verge of getting the keys taken away. What do you remember about the HP and Decon staffing quality there? What do you remember about the hourly rate there? All of these things are related in my opinion, you get what you pay for generally speaking. 6 good techs in a crew of 50 can not carry the weight of 44 to make the outage a success.

We are one of the smallest groups on site during an outage, tasked with a great deal of responsibility. Seems like cheap insurance to ensure the utility gets a quality group of Rad safety Techs. How much does it cost to have unposted high radiation areas, VHRA's, lost realestate due to contamination spread out of control, radioactive tools outside of the RCA, INPO 3 ratings, slowed outages because your so afraid to make another mistake and get the keys taken away? All rhetorical questions.

So the question is this. Is it really more expensive to do direct hire? Does the utility really take on another level of responsibility by not using a contract company? I believe that the answer to both of these questions is a great big NO!

When you compare the cost of low quality service v.s. the alternative, the answer is very clear. I don't even think that having a middle man like Bartlett is the total problem either, money is the problem. Bartlett could do the same thing by selling the idea to the utilities, bill higher and require higher level of employee. When I sold advertising I had the most expensive product in the market, also the highest quality product in the market. That was always the first thing out of my mouth when giving the pitch. The name of the game is ROI (return on investment) That is the approach to take. Give $20 for a radio ad and they will give you $15 back or, give me $25 for my ad and I will give you $40 back every time. Which sounds like a more expensive deal? You want radioactive material released to the public, high rad violations, INPO 3 ratings...continue to pay $23/hour and you will get techs that aren't worth $15/hour. It's business 101. I do not understand why otherwise intelligent people do not get this.
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Offline tonynuke

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #3 on: Feb 17, 2008, 11:46 »
I totally agree the plant places itself in the best position if they can direct hire the best possible talent.  Most plants seem to have a core group they can count on coming in to every outage and can trust to do a good job.  But are there enough good quality techs out there for every plant to fully staff an outage.  The key words being "Good Quality."  Without some type of tech rating system, how does any plant know a good quality tech, unless they have worked there before?  Maybe the next step is for plants is to direct hire part of their workforce, the part they can be sure will do the job they are paid to do, and deserve the extra bennies.  Then if they have leftover spots to fill, fill them from the usual contract tech pool. 
Just some more fodder for the debate, which should be a good one. 
Have a nice day!   ;D

Offline desertdog

Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #4 on: Feb 17, 2008, 09:32 »
[quote author=Brett LaVigne link=topic=13628.msg74894#msg74894 date=1203244501]


Hiring direct allows the tech to see a bit more in their paycheck and makes them feel like they are appreciated and getting a fair deal.  It creates an environment of teamwork and people that are more than willing to do the small and large things that make the outage safe and successfull.

When I receive turnover from another tech, I almost don't even have to question whether or not I was set up to succeed, it's just expected.

Most of us have worked a plant or two that was in the situation of being on INPO's hit list with a 3 rating or maybe on the verge of getting the keys taken away. What do you remember about the HP and Decon staffing quality there? What do you remember about the hourly rate there? All of these things are related in my opinion, you get what you pay for generally speaking. 6 good techs in a crew of 50 can not carry the weight of 44 to make the outage a success.

[/quote]



I couldn't agree with you more.  Having worked both of the currently operating CA plants, it's AMAZING the difference a couple of hundred miles and a different management perspective makes.

To come into a plant and to be shown the respect that we have earned over the years is refreshing to say the least.  It starts with finally being paid on par with the other groups of technicians in the nuclear world.  It continues with a high level of responsibility to do your job correctly and with your best effort possible. When everyone is pulling in the same direction it is the best work environment imagineable.

I don't know if we will ever see a majority of the plants accept this philosophy but it looks as if a few more are going to try it.  All I can say is if they have half of the success Diablo has had, I can't see them going backwards to the current situation.

Here's to getting paid what we deserve on a consistent basis.  Let's not forget the value we provide to these utilities in keeping them out of increased regulatory surveillance and lawsuit nightmares.  For too long too many of us have accepted our wages as being OK  because they were better than  our buddy's back home.  That is not the model to compare ourselves against!  We live and work in the world of nuclear professionals.  That is who we are. That is the group we should be looking at for pay comparisons.

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #5 on: Feb 18, 2008, 07:26 »
Excellent Response! 

Obviously the compensation package and the Direct Hire relationship, offered by Diablo, peaks the interest of every Technician, but as desertdog stated, "It's PAR in comparison with other technical groups", "PAR" being the key word!  I guess the rest of the industry has to ask the question, does Diablo's direct hiring venue raise the standards, or simply recognize and implement the standards?  I've never worked the facility, but I know several of the Technicians currently working the assignment.  Based on their reputations and my previous experience with their work ethics, the facility most definitely deserves bragging rights!       

Now it is time for the ugly reality of the situation!  It's purely coincidental, but the simple truth!  The standards of Diablo, (Direct Hires), have caused a back-lash for the rest of the commercial outages.  Not only has the project consumed so many Technicians, but it has removed a large portion of the industries seasoned experienced professionals!  A ratio of 6 experienced Technicians, to 44 warm bodies is a goal that most utilities will only dream about!  You can also take that 44 and reduce it to 36, then split them 50/50.  Fifty percent will be warm bodies, with basic competency and the other fifty percent will be newbie’s.  Short staffed and the lack of experience can only equate to one obvious answer and it's only a matter of time before that reality hits home!  Check the board out, some contract companies are advertizing for anybody with any background related to Health Physics.  If you ever installed a smoke detector and can pass the NEU test that may possibly meet the current acceptable standards!  I see a lot of Source Custodians entering the picture....CONSIDER that is a WARNING!

Quote
When I receive turnover from another tech, I almost don't even have to question whether or not I was set up to succeed, it's just expected.

It's been quite a while; can you tell me what that feels like?    :D

Later, RG!


 

Offline felchie

Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #6 on: Feb 23, 2008, 04:12 »
The one thing I am not understanding about Mr Lavigne's post (maybe I'm Missing
something) is that a lot of the DC techs work elsewhere when DC is not in outage,
does thier work ethic drop when not getting the premium pay?  If so, what a sorry testiment to their professionalism.....Using this logic, if all utilities direct hired their HP
staff, they would all be rated high by INPO and would never have any incidents?
I call BS on that!  I know most of the techs that work there, there are some excellent
ones, but, there are some that are really poor....I have worked alongside many of
them and they are no different.  DO they try harder at DC?  maybe, but, a leopard
cannot change its spots.
Not meant to bash anyone, just suggesting that there must be more than just the
direct hire involved....
On a personal note, I am for direct hire for the money just like everyone else......

Offline Old HP

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #7 on: Feb 23, 2008, 08:20 »
First off, I am in favor of the Diablo Canyon direct hire system.
Next I have many friends working the  Diablo SG outage as well as the other SG outage this spring. However tempting the wages might be, long outages far from home are not very popular on the homefront. So there are some of  us out here that prefer the shorter outages closer to home.
In regard to the other issue being discussed in this forum: there will alway be good techs, warm bodies and bad techs.
It all comes down to what kind of job you can and are willing to do. Nothing gives  warm fuzzies like pointing out that you are working for the low bidder on the health physics contract, right before you put the bubble hood on a  worker and send them off to pull CRDs or some other equally nasty place.  The workers know, if it takes 3 techs 30 minutes to get someone into a delta suit or bubble hood, that they might be in trouble. They also can figure out in a very short time if a tech knows what is going on and can provide the service that is required for that particular job. 
Anyway in more than 25 years there are not any jobs that I can remember that I felt I was overpaid. So nothing has really changed.

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #8 on: Feb 24, 2008, 09:43 »
The one thing I am not understanding about Mr Lavigne's post (maybe I'm Missing
something) is that a lot of the DC techs work elsewhere when DC is not in outage,
does thier work ethic drop when not getting the premium pay?  If so, what a sorry testiment to their professionalism.....Using this logic, if all utilities direct hired their HP
staff, they would all be rated high by INPO and would never have any incidents?
I call BS on that!  I know most of the techs that work there, there are some excellent
ones, but, there are some that are really poor....I have worked alongside many of
them and they are no different.  DO they try harder at DC?  maybe, but, a leopard
cannot change its spots.
Not meant to bash anyone, just suggesting that there must be more than just the
direct hire involved....
On a personal note, I am for direct hire for the money just like everyone else......

This is a valid talking point but not what I was personally getting at. The techs that I am working with at DC are, generally speaking, the best I have worked with ever. I have worked with some of these folks at other facilities, and they were just as good there as well. We have assembled the best of the business in my opinion, not neccessarily all of the best, there just aren't that many spots available. But, we have a great representative sample of the best there is. Do some put fourth a stronger effort while they are here...making twice as much as most other contract jobs? I am sure that there are examples of that, lets be realistic. Is that unprofessional? Sure it is, but it is human nature with some to put fourth the extra effort when there is extra $$. However, I do believe that If you were able to get your hands on Bartlett personel files of the techs that are here for the outage, you would find similar reviews for most. Remember that the only way into this plant for a contractor is to have a couple of references from people that are already trusted to do a great job. These people wouldn't risk their own reputation on bringing in new techs that were sub-standard. Using that logic, DC should get techs that have a reputation for being the best and I think they do. 

Diablo Canyon is not perfect, nor are the techs 100% perfect, but I think the % mix of good to bad is far greater than typical outages.

My point was this...If a utility pays at the bottom of the industry scale and they really don't expect much more than the ability to fog a mirror from the techs that come in (and that is the case at more than one plant) because they are simply not going to attract a large percentage of good techs for their outages, then they will run a higher risk of bad things happening (IE. high rad violations, rad material outside the boundries, unplanned exposures etc.). If the above logic holds any water then I think it is also fair to say that if utilities did direct hiring at higher wages, or contracts were stronger with Bartlett to allow for higher wages, then those utilities would be able to pick and choose a little more and would have a plethora of resumes and referals for good techs. They wouldn't have to hire the underachievers and would in turn set themselves up for more successfull outages. With all of that said, I think that the probablity of higher INPO ratings would follow. INPO ratings are not decided by HP practices alone, but I think it is a great place to start as we are typically looked upon as the "goto" department and leaders in the field.

Good points felchie, hope I cleared up my thoughts on this.
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #9 on: Feb 24, 2008, 11:35 »
Diablo is not the first to direct hire HP's.  They are just the only ones currently doing it.  They are also the only ones to be as selective as they are, because they currently have the most buying power.  Currently, they have nobody competing with them for the top-notch techs.

It isn't the direct hiring, nor the better money, nor the ability to work with techs who support and encourage each other.  It is ALL of those things combined with the fact that you can only get that at one place.  DC gets it's crew because nobody else is trying as hard to get them.  As soon as some of those folks get a chance to work under the same conditions at the plant close to home, the team will break up and it will never be the same again.

The fact is that DC has used its advantage to put together a team.  If you break up that team, all the $$$$ and direct hiring and benefits won't make up for that.

The key is, as someone mentioned here, a rating system.  But, instead of some arbitrary A/B/C or on a scale of 1 to 10, they use the more effective rating system of coworker referral.

Really, what is the best way to rate employees?  Ask their coworkers if they want to work with them.  By hiring only referred techs, they make sure that they don't get the slugs nobody wants to take turnover from.  But, even that doesn't get it all the way.  Look up north to another western nuclear plant, where they only take techs referred by other techs, and you'll find that there are a few names on the list that would piss off the pope.

It sounds good to hear that other plants are doing this, but you better hope that not too many of them do.  It could spell the end of the only good deal there is.  If half of the top-level techs do not show up at Diablo next time, who do you think they will get to replace them?  If you are one of those people who goes to Diablo regularly, you do not want to see more than two or three other plants try to copy them.

No matter what you do, be careful when you start talking about some techs being better than others.  You'll be branded an elitist.  Just because  some companies are begging anyone who can pick up a meter to come be techs doesn't mean that you have a right to question their qualifications.  A lot of people who come to this site honestly feel that they are entitled to the job you have earned, and they will take offense at your labeling them as inferior technicians.

And all the talk about a quality program is just that - talk.  You know that the managers who decide to go cheap and get the lower-quality product are not always motivated to pay more to get better.  Face it, NRC fines are chump change.  The turbine spins three times and earns them the money to pay the fines.  Consider that the thing turns 1800 times a minute, and you can see how much the fines affect their decisions.  The big worry is whether they can run or not.  An INPO 3 plant charges just as much money for electricity as an INPO 1 plant, but spends tens of millions less every year.  The same is true for SALP1.  In fact, SALP1 ratings are so expensive to get that some utilities purposely aim for SALP2 just to save the money.

Most people have no trouble understanding that "in the long run" investments in quality return enough to pay for themselves several times over.  But, in the office, somebody is making decisions based on the fact that he can only spend what this year's budget says he can spend, and he knows it will only get tighter next year.  His department is not even remotely related to the part of the company that brings money INTO the business.  Return on investment is not his concern.

DC is a gold nugget in a salt mine.  They are still owned by a utility, and haven't been gobbled up by the nuclear conglomerates.  Anybody out there think that if Exelon hired all its temporary techs directly that working there would be just like working at Diablo?  Keep your hands up, I'm still counting.
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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #10 on: Feb 28, 2008, 04:58 »
Mr. La Vigne,

I hate to turn you into a Stat-Rat, but do you have any information reguarding the Direct Hire's, on the following issues?

1.  Percentage of Returnee's.
2.  Collective and Average Experience level of the Temporary Direct Hires.
3.  Number of Formally Technically Trained Individuals, (Utility Sponsored, Technical School, Military, etc.).
4.  Number of RRPT's in the Technician population.
5.  Number of Degree holders in the population.
6.  Weekly Average of Absenteeism.
7.  Weekly Average of Tardiness.
8.  Number of Juniors & 18.1's. vs. 3.1 Seniors, (if any).
9.  Skill related program discrepancies, (Postings, Meter Issues, etc.).
10. Associated Health Physics Department issues related to influencing the outage schedule.
11. Site ALARA Goal to Date.
12. Number of Per-Con's to date.
13. Relationship between the Temporary Direct Hires and the Site Staff.

Last, but not least, any feedback from the Utilities Management on the continuing success of the program?

If you have the time, RG!

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #11 on: Feb 28, 2008, 12:21 »
Mr. La Vigne,

I hate to turn you into a Stat-Rat, but do you have any information reguarding the Direct Hire's, on the following issues?

1.  Percentage of Returnee's.
2.  Collective and Average Experience level of the Temporary Direct Hires.
3.  Number of Formally Technically Trained Individuals, (Utility Sponsored, Technical School, Military, etc.).
4.  Number of RRPT's in the Technician population.
5.  Number of Degree holders in the population.
6.  Weekly Average of Absenteeism.
7.  Weekly Average of Tardiness.
8.  Number of Juniors & 18.1's. vs. 3.1 Seniors, (if any).
9.  Skill related program discrepancies, (Postings, Meter Issues, etc.).
10. Associated Health Physics Department issues related to influencing the outage schedule.
11. Site ALARA Goal to Date.
12. Number of Per-Con's to date.
13. Relationship between the Temporary Direct Hires and the Site Staff.

Last, but not least, any feedback from the Utilities Management on the continuing success of the program?

If you have the time, RG!

1. Returnee's, near 100% for normal outages.
2. Many of the normal techs here for average refuel outages have been here 10+ times and a good deal 15+ Diablo outages.
3. Don't know.
4. Not sure, plenty that have been in the past but many believe that it doesn't carry the weight it once did.
5. Lots of ex-navy, not sure about higher education.
6. We got hit with the outage crud pretty hard. During the last refuel outage I don't remember anyone missing a day.
7. Just doesn't seem to happen other than planned tardiness or some unforeseen problem, who wants to give up the $$? Here it matters.
8. We have a handfull of Jr. techs (maybe 5/shift) this time and a handfull of Sr. techs that work with the decon group. Normally no Jr.'s. They are paid nearly what the Sr.'s are paid.
9. ?
10. We try not to hold up work however, we did hold up the outage 24 hours for crudburst because it was the right thing to do and, I have noticed that HP has a bit more stroke here for the sake of trying to do things right. It ain't perfect, we feel plenty of schedule pressure, but it seems that we are absolutely supported if we feel we need to "take 2"
for safety. (I think that is what you were getting at).
11. Pretty sure we are under the curve by a decent margin, I will get back to ya.
12. Dude, swear to God, I could eat my lunch inside containment everyday and not worry about ingesting a single atom of Co-60. It is the cleanest plant I have ever worked.
13. The relationship between us contract pukes and house guys...we are them, they are us. They treat us as their own, listen to our input, respect and support our decisions. We are as much of a team as I can ever expect. This is the reason working at Diablo Canyon is so great, not just the money.

I am still a noobe here only working a couple of outages. Others on this site would be able to answer these questions much better than I. The biggest thing I notice is that the techs are competent and maybe even more importantly, they get along and want to support each other. The quickest way to not be invited back is to let down your fellow tech., not management, your fellow technician.

I don't brag this plant up trying to sound like an elitist like BeerCourt mentioned earlier, and I do understand that I can come across like that on this forum. Those who know me, know that I am not an elitist. I consider myself an adequate technician who tries to come to work ready to work every day and nothing less. At this plant there is a lot of that mentality and there are is a substantial group that think the way I do that have a lot more experience and talent. I could fill this page with people that many of you would know. That is why it is a great place to work.
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Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #12 on: Aug 22, 2008, 06:11 »
Diablo is not the first to direct hire HP's.  They are just the only ones currently doing it. 

Is that still true?  I had heard rumors that couple of the midwest plants were looking at using a direct hire system...not sure whether anything came of it.  And think that Canada might use direct hire?  And maybe Columbia does during non-outage...?
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Offline Radwraith

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #13 on: Oct 14, 2008, 03:16 »
Now to rain on everybodies parade... Like Beercourt said: Does anyone think that if Excellon started a direct hire program, Techs would lining up at their gates? I have worked Diablo and there is indeed no place like it! This is not just the money (Though it certainly helps!) but rather the overall atmosphere! Many plants have talked about going to the same methods and in some cases the idea is laughable. They are willing to try it because their short outages and bad attitudes have driven away many of their regulars. These plants might recoup a few of their losses going to a direct hire system but it still wouldn't be anything like Diablo. When Diablo first started their direct hire program they were already a "by invitation" plant so they already had a group of people in mind (I know, I was there at the time). These other utilities that are considering it would just be copycats and poor ones at that (In at least some cases).
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Offline redline

Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #14 on: Oct 14, 2008, 07:37 »
Just a couple things here.
Hiring direct is by no means a cost savings. It is hughly more expensive to manage people at a higher rate, plus the hidden paycheck, plus the extra taxes and insurance, plus the hit your unemployment percentage takes when you lay those people off. In many cases the BNI rate is less than what a house technician makes without all thsoe factor added in.

Yes they can hire who they want. Dont think for a minute that a company like BNI is going to load a contract up with top quality technicians just because they want to go there for the extra money. No matter what the say they, they keep up with the quality of their work force and divide it up accordingly so that for the most part, each contract gets about the same percentages of technicians who ought to be flipping burgers.

My employer knows this and has addressed this with BNI, and I believe you will see BNI lose at least a share of perhaps their biggest contract because of it. If not all.

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #15 on: Oct 15, 2008, 02:27 »
So your employer knows the real deal and there doing what? 

Oh yea, I've heard this one before....

Bla, Bla, Bla....Blaaaa, Bla, Blaaaa..Bla..Bla!

RG!
« Last Edit: Oct 15, 2008, 03:24 by RAD-GHOST »

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #16 on: Oct 15, 2008, 12:44 »
Just a couple things here.
Hiring direct is by no means a cost savings. It is hughly more expensive to manage people at a higher rate, plus the hidden paycheck, plus the extra taxes and insurance, plus the hit your unemployment percentage takes when you lay those people off. In many cases the BNI rate is less than what a house technician makes without all thsoe factor added in.

Yes they can hire who they want. Dont think for a minute that a company like BNI is going to load a contract up with top quality technicians just because they want to go there for the extra money. No matter what the say they, they keep up with the quality of their work force and divide it up accordingly so that for the most part, each contract gets about the same percentages of technicians who ought to be flipping burgers.

My employer knows this and has addressed this with BNI, and I believe you will see BNI lose at least a share of perhaps their biggest contract because of it. If not all.

And who is going to get that share?  Will it go to the "other" company - who hires the same techs as Bartlett?  Believe me, I have offered the "cream of the crop" to potential customers who balked at the rates I would have to charge to get them.  The only way I can guarantee the top quality techs to a customer is to pay them what Diablo is paying.  I haven't had any takers yet, and i am not willing to lower the standards just to get the cost down to where I can get a contract.

As long as so many plants are willing to pay only 'burger-flipper" prices for techs, they are going to get "burger-flipper techs".  And if they ALL kicked the money up to Diablo's rates, the best techs will still go to Diablo.

If your company is really the biggest contract that Bartlett has, then we know who that is, don't we?  So, you can count on getting Burger Chef and Jeff every outage until the spent fuel decays to lead.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #17 on: Oct 16, 2008, 05:48 »
I'm hearing that talks are currently underway between one nuclear staffing company & Mickey D's, (Shared Resources)!

Think of the similiarities:

R0-2 is a Regular, R0-2A is a Large and a 6112-B is a Super Size!
"Would you like Charcoal with that Air Sample Head"?
Stuffing those boxes with smears vs. stuffing those knapkins containers....is there a difference?
If you want it your way, you've come to the wrong place!
How about those headphones?


RG!
« Last Edit: Oct 16, 2008, 06:24 by RAD-GHOST »

Austria

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #18 on: Oct 16, 2008, 08:39 »
I'm hearing that talks are currently underway between one nuclear staffing company & Mickey D's, (Shared Resources)!.....
How about those headphones?

McDonald's ususally has better headphones.  8)

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #19 on: Oct 16, 2008, 10:23 »
...And if they ALL kicked the money up to Diablo's rates, the best techs will still go to Diablo.

I don't see that.  Diablo is a long drive for the majority of techs...it's worth making that drive if you can get $10+/hour extra, but if you can make the big bucks without going clear across the country...? 

I think the first few plants to make the move to direct hire will find they are getting their pick of the techs...or at least splitting the techs with other direct hire plants in the same time slot...
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #20 on: Oct 16, 2008, 05:18 »
Well, yeah.  Maybe if the place isn't having an outage at the same time, and the weather is reasonable, and they treat the techs like humans. AAANNNNDDDD!!!!  MOST IMPORTANTLY - they don't hire just any bunch of slugs who are drooling over the higher pay.

The number one complaint I hear from techs is not about the money, or the company, or the shortage of work, or the lack of benefits.  It is about having to work with total no-loads for the same pay.

So, if you show up at a site and get $25, $35, or $45 and hour, and you watch an untrained, lazy HP with a bad attitude play the disappearing act for the same cash as you, you're going to be looking for your old job at Diablo back.
« Last Edit: Oct 26, 2008, 11:08 by BeerCourt »
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline rocknrollrick

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #21 on: Oct 17, 2008, 01:07 »
In all fairness the days of playing hide and seek are gone. Most Techs in the field work hard and contribute to the crew there on. The biggest problem is the aging work force which effects all companies in the nuclear industry. Direct hire has it's place, it makes for more competition and ultimately higher wages.  ;DI believe the average age for a senior RP tech is around 55 and climbing. The skilled trades are not much better.

It is interesting when in outage watching groups of college age students file past and I wonder what they think, seeing workers undress coming out of containment soaked in sweat. :o 
Direct hire or not the industry is running out of EXPERIENCED quality techs. The wages should have come up long ago to make this business more attractive! ;)
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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #22 on: Oct 23, 2008, 02:57 »
Well, yeah.  Maybe if the place isn't having an outage at the same time, and the weather is reasonable, and they treat the techs like humans. AAANNNNDDDD!!!!  MOST IMPORTANTLY - they don't hire just any bunch of slugs who ae drooling over the higher pay.

The number one complaint I hear from techs is not about the money, or the company, or the shortage of work, or the lack of benefits.  It is about having to work with total no-loads for the same pay.

So, if you show up at a site and get $25, $35, or $45 and hour, and you watch an untrained, lazy HP with a bad attitude play the disappearing act for the same cash as you, you're going to be looking for your old job at Diablo back.
Sorry
I don't base my job performance on what the other techs were doing or not doing.I've always come in early and did my job the best I knew how. Sure I've seen others slack off but I never wanted anyone to say I wasn't doing my job. If I did everything the plant wanted of me with no problems I could bet I would be welcomed back.
Let me clarify what I mean by coming in early. I was where I should be when I was supposed to be there and no one had to look for me.The military teaches you there is no such thing as late only poor planning.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #23 on: Oct 23, 2008, 03:32 »
When that guy is your relief and the place is always a mess when you get it from him, you'll care.
When the daily, shiftly, hourly, ... etc. survey always seems to get done by you and not that guy, you'll care.
When you catch a reprimand or a day off without pay due to some other tech's laziness, or lack of ability, or lack of integrity, you'll care.
When you can barely make a decent living out of the 12 to 20 weeks of work you get every year, and Mr. Slug always gets hired on by his buddy the SC a week before you, and laid-off after you, you'll care.
When you have displayed that admirable work ethic of yours for the next 5, 10, 15 years, and you don't get the raise that you deserve, because you are lumped together with that guy, you'll care.
If you think that anyone gives a $#!t that you are showing up on time and doing your work, you are WRONG.  All they care is that SOMEBODY is doing it.  As long as you are that somebody, you are carrying someone else.
For now, the ratio of tech to slug is about 2 to 1.  When it flips and is 1:2, you are not going to feel the same way that you do now.
The best techs are fed up.  They deserve more than they are getting, and the reason they aren't getting it is the quality of their coworkers' work.  So, a Direct Hire plan like Diablo is the right way to go --FOR THOSE TECHS -- but when it gets to the point where it is industry-wide, it will become the same thing as what it is meant to overcome.

If you are making $25.00 per hour, you really aren't.  In reality, you and that guy sleeping on that pile of PC's are splitting $50.00 per hour.  Do you think it is fair that you have to cut it down the middle?
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #24 on: Oct 24, 2008, 11:53 »

If you are making $25.00 per hour, you really aren't.  In reality, you and that guy sleeping on that pile of PC's are splitting $50.00 per hour.  Do you think it is fair that you have to cut it down the middle?

sew may bee ya should be pitching yer offer two da plants dat your company kin due da work of da udder company's techs using half there number of techs, for 95% of they're total billing package.  5% savings wood git most people's attenshun these days, doncha think?  of coarse, ya'll hafta increase yer techs wages by 90% to git them two work hard, i.e. a $25 tech wood make $47.50.  yued make sum extra cash to, but dat's da american weigh. ;)
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #25 on: Oct 24, 2008, 08:11 »
Thought of that.  It isn't catching on yet, but we'll see.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Lorrie Henson

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #26 on: Oct 25, 2008, 07:57 »
I heard that one of the midwest plants would possibly be going to direct hire, so when I saw that plant listed on a wish list for a contracting company, I called the company and asked them about it.  They told me that there is too much liability and 'crap' that the contrator takes care of and the plant doesn't want to take on.  The plant feels it's easier to just let the contracting company take care of it all.

Too bad.. I was looking forward to the higher wage and per diem.

justatech

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #27 on: Oct 25, 2008, 05:21 »
The number one complaint I hear from techs is not about the money, or the company, or the shortage of work, or the lack of benefits.  It is about having to work with total no-loads for the same pay.

It's called sharing the wealth isn't it?  :P

Seriously, that is the number one complaint and I'll break it down a bit......
just a few years ago techs were paid for the experience i.e. Sr > 10, Sr > 7, Sr > 2 and 18.1's........ even Jr Techs were < 1 year and > than 1 year.......... at least you were paid for your experience........ didn't put a stop to the No-loads but you were compensated for your time and experience........

The no-loads are the fault of the coordinators not following through with complaints, house supervisors and house techs not bringing this to light when it is a problem....... etc. We've all seen it and have done nothing...................... we just deal with and try not to work with that person on the same crew next time around.

There's always the "one man lay off" to prove a point and it usually does - but we are under the belief we are so short staffed we can't afford that "one." What about the crew working with that person? Moral would go off if they were laid off and the techs could get back to business.

We could even hire a bum off the sreet to sit around and collect the money - I bet he would be happy enough to do 'something"...... back to the "sharing the wealth" theory...........   ;)
« Last Edit: Oct 25, 2008, 11:31 by justatech »

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #28 on: Oct 25, 2008, 09:37 »
A Senior HP >10 years is the exact same thing as a SR. HP >7 years, as a Sr. HP>2 years, ... etc.

As long as the passage of time is considered an increased level of qualification, you are just going to see more of the same.  There are lots of ways to remedy this, but as long as the techs get rewarded for staying above ground for another couple of years, and their employer makes its profit based on the number of hours worked instead of the work done in those hours, things aren't going to change.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #29 on: Oct 26, 2008, 05:38 »
BC,

Your talking Quality vs. Quantity! 

I haven't seen a site staffed in over 20 years with a QUALITY objective, just numbers!



Lorrie,

Hope you read between the lines on that one! 

We appreciate your help, but we really don't want to know your name and disassociate ourselves from any blame$$$$$!

I'll assume their talent pool is a little on the dry side also!


RG!



 

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Benefits of Direct Hire
« Reply #30 on: Oct 26, 2008, 11:14 »
Exactly!  That is the benefit of direct hire.  It isn't money.  Diablo pays it's HP's MORE than they would have paid Bartlett for them.

But, it is the Golden Rule:  The One with the Gold makes the Rules.

Diablo does direct hire so they can get the techs they want.  Period.

If every plant did it, the pool would be too small for all of them to get the people they want on their jobs.  So, they will have to lower their standards, accept the lesser qualified people along with those whose work-ethic sucks, and the pay will go down accordingly.  It will get to a point where they see no benefit for taking on the problems of having employees when contractors will do as well on somebody else's insurance.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

 


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