Just took the POSS/MASS/BMST, a reflection

[dagiffy]

It's surprising to me that naval nukes would fail this test often. We had to score well on a similar test, ASVAB, to get into the program. We took tests that, at least to my mind, make the POSS look like a joke by comparison. Once you get through that program you are pretty much an expert at taking tests, which obviously has no correlation to being a good operator necessarily.

[MightyMouse]

Of course that guy is the "best" AO on site.  He's been doing the same thing for 20+ years!  At the same time, do you really think that all of the other AO's who were there during that timespan are inferior to him?  At least many of them managed to get licensed and move up.  It doesn't seem to me like he is the "best of the bunch" as you make out.

A B.S. with a high GPA won't necessarily make you a better operator than a high school graduate.  If the HS grad can pass the POSS and you can't then he/she will most likely be above you on the hiring totem pole.  What you said about HS grads passing the POSS more easily isn't true though, because from what I've heard the 15-20% pass rate holds up across educational backgrounds.  In other words, 15% of HS grads will pass, 15% of those with a B.S. will pass, 15% of those with a M.S. will pass, etc.  Obviously, the people on site know you well and want you as an operator so you've got that going for you.  Will you take the test again in 3 months?         

Yes, I will take the test again. I think I will be ok this time having narrowed down my problem area. I'm just going by word of mouth about this said AO here on site. He must really like being an AO if he hasn't tried to move into Ops Training.

[metoo]

I took the MASS/POSS test about three weeks ago.  I received a letter yesterday stating I was recommended for mechanical and controls maintenance as well as Operations.  It seems I must have done OK on the test.

I've been out of the industry for about thirteen years, and haven't been taking tests since I left the plant.

Here's my take on the test, which I think strongly aligns with what others here have said.

About two weeks before I took the test, I went over all the info and recommendations here at Nukeworker.  I bought an ASVAB book, and methodically worked through it.  I did both the practice tests, and brushed up with the sections that are reviews.   I made flash cards of unit conversions and used them to study as well. 

The test was stressful, because I knew I needed to nail the sweet spot between working too slow and not getting enough done, and working too fast and not getting enough correct.  The math section, was the hardest.  Absolutely skip questions that appear to be hard (two or more conversions).  Coming back to those skipped questions later, I found for some of them,  I had just missed the obvious answer.  I don't think I even looked up at the conversion chart once.  Maybe I did, but I don't remember, which was a big difference compared to the first time I took the practice test on line.  I completed most of the questions for most of the sections.  The mechanical and reading section were completed with time to spare, but upon checking my work, I found a couple wrong answers, so, just like operating the plant, self checking can help.

I did use the stop watch function on my wristwatch.  I didn't time each question, but just kind of ball parked my self as I went through the various sections.  We all know it's a fast paced test, and therefore we may have a tendency to rush.  Using a stop watch actually allowed me to realize I was going fast enough, and allowed me to slow down a bit.  I'm sure that improved my score by boosting the number of correct answers.

I have just recently started wearing prescription reading glasses.  My vision is fully corrected with them on.  Even wearing glasses, I had a hard time seeing some of the identifying letters on the assembly portion of the test.  IIRC, the letters are printed in small blue print, and appeared to be fuzzy.  I don't know if the printing press was off a slight bit when the test was made, or if it was me.  If I had the test to do over again, I'd invest in a cheap pair of dollar store reading glasses with more strength for that portion of the test.  If you do this, be sure to work with them on for a while during study sessions, as wearing glasses for the first time makes your head feel funny!

Although I think I remember reading about it, I was thrown off a bit by some of the answers on the test.  I remember the math section had an answer space for "N", meaning none of the answers given were correct.  For a couple questions,  after going through several steps in a calculation, I couldn't get a match to any of the answers they had given, so I filled in the "N" circle.  After the test, I felt that I had made a mistake on those two problems.  I still don't know.  However, the point is that the ASVAB book didn't have "N", but the POSS/MASS test has "N".  Don't be thrown.  After the test, I  think I remember a poster on here saying that "N" is never the correct answer, but haven't been able to find or validate that statement.

The algebra portion of the math section was fairly straight forward, but it's still algebra.  Gotta remember how to solve for X.  The level of difficulty of the ASVAB tests seemed to be a spot on for the POSS/MASS test.  Don't worry about having to solve the quadratic equation, or any calculus.  It's not on the test.  Just simple 1/x = 2.3, or x-2 =3 + 2x type stuff.  Again ASVAB practices and study guides will bring you right back up to speed.  I was so rusty in my math, that the first few practices, I didn't use the ASVAB, but went to www.mathisfun.com and relearned there, without timing myself.  When I got to the ASVAB, I used a stopwatch.

In practice, I used scratch paper like a sonar tech taking a shower uses water.   When I got to the actual test, they only gave us one sheet of scratch paper.  Not a big deal, but perhaps worth mentioning.

The biggest thing that I think helped was knowing the conversions cold.  Questions involving distances, in standard and metric and volumes in kitchen (tbsp, etc) and metric units were common.  There were a few Q's involving circle area, circumference, diameter and radius.  Knowing how to move back and forth between all those measurements was key, I believe.

That's all I can remember.  Hope this helps and doesn't confuse.  If anyone finds an error with this post, let me know, as I don't want to put out bum dope!

[vagabond]

The test was stressful, because I knew I needed to nail the sweet spot between working too slow and not getting enough done, and working too fast and not getting enough correct.  The math section, was the hardest.  Absolutely skip questions that appear to be hard (two or more conversions).  Coming back to those skipped questions later, I found for some of them,  I had just missed the obvious answer.  I don't think I even looked up at the conversion chart once.  Maybe I did, but I don't remember, which was a big difference compared to the first time I took the practice test on line.  I completed most of the questions for most of the sections.  The mechanical and reading section were completed with time to spare, but upon checking my work, I found a couple wrong answers, so, just like operating the plant, self checking can help.

I did use the stop watch function on my wristwatch.  I didn't time each question, but just kind of ball parked my self as I went through the various sections.  We all know it's a fast paced test, and therefore we may have a tendency to rush.  Using a stop watch actually allowed me to realize I was going fast enough, and allowed me to slow down a bit.  I'm sure that improved my score by boosting the number of correct answers.

Although I think I remember reading about it, I was thrown off a bit by some of the answers on the test.  I remember the math section had an answer space for "N", meaning none of the answers given were correct.  For a couple questions,  after going through several steps in a calculation, I couldn't get a match to any of the answers they had given, so I filled in the "N" circle.  After the test, I felt that I had made a mistake on those two problems.  I still don't know.  However, the point is that the ASVAB book didn't have "N", but the POSS/MASS test has "N".  Don't be thrown.  After the test, I  think I remember a poster on here saying that "N" is never the correct answer, but haven't been able to find or validate that statement.

I took the POSS twice recently, and I found skipping problems that I thought would take more time helped.  The math isn't difficult, but some later questions only require one conversion whereas others needed two or more.  I feel this helped me answer more questions for the same amount of time required.

I found my stopwatch very useful also.  Like aforementioned, it helps you keep gauge your speed quite well.  In a test like this, seconds matter in my opinion.  Mostly in the Charts and Graphs, and Math sections where it could mean answering a few extra questions.

The funny thing about answering "N" is that you always want to second guess yourself.  I truely feel like a few questions did require "N" as an answer.  Some of the alternates would be close, but typically they would be of by a 1/10 or have an extra 0.  Next week I will find out how well I did, which may allude to our theories being correct.

One thing I found was that the conversions in the POSS Practice Test are different from those in the actual test.  It's probably best to memorize all volumetric, area, distance, rate, etc.  conversions. 

[butlrym]

I just took the test a few days ago, this was my first time taking it.  I had prepared for it extremely hard about a year ago, but the AUO program I wanted to enter (and had a union bid for) was slated to begin right during my last semester of classes before finishing my bachelors.  This time after receiving a bid, I only grazed the EEI prep tests online.  I breezed through EVERY part of the exam except for the short math and extended math tests.  On the short math I got through 11-12 of the 19 questions, I'm sure my answers were right.  The second time on the extended math I finished the conversions quickly due to the questions being exactly the same as before.  When I got to the algebra questions, I blanked on how to solve/find X for about 4 minutes.  I went through 4-5 problems and plugged in the given answers to find the proper answer for X.  Once I got over my apparent brain fart, I got through 2-3 more problems and time ran out.  Honest, should I call this one a day because I didn't finish enough questions?

Secondly I would like to say to anyone taking this from a collegiate background for the first time, it's NOTHING like anything you did in college due to time constraints.  Even though I did what I felt extremely well on the rest of the exam, I was pissed about my performance on the math, which was easy if I hadn't scrambled on the algebra. 

Couple of questions for recent vets of the test, who have tested for TVA:

1.  What was the time frame for receiving your interview/no-interview results?
2.  Can someone explain or point me in the direction of the grading criteria of the test?


Lastly, I wish I had found this site before the test.  Theres a lot of useful information and thanks to the people who provide it.  If I have to/get a chance to take it again, I'll look to here for help. 

[Fermi2]

1.  What was the time frame for receiving your interview/no-interview results?

It can be between 2 to 5 weeks to have the test graded. TVA will have your results before you do. So far as the interview. It depends on how busy the people are who are screening your resume. Sometimes it's up to 3 months after you take the POSS and no, you won't be told if you are not to be interviewed.

2.  Can someone explain or point me in the direction of the grading criteria of the test?

Only getting 8 answers on the last section doesn't bode well for you. You have to get a certain number of questions answered merely to get the section graded. No I do not know how many you have to answer in each section.

Mike

[butlrym]

I disagree with your opinion on the up to three months, the SGPO starts in Jan.  They'll be quicker about it than that, but thanks for the information.

[Fermi2]

I disagree with your opinion on the up to three months, the SGPO starts in Jan.  They'll be quicker about it than that, but thanks for the information.

So you're going to disagree with a MANAGER who reviews resumes and conducts INTERVIEWS for SGPO classes for TVA? It wasn't an opinion son.
Trust me, if they don't have time to get through the process they'll just put off the class. The class dates are tentative and believe it or not in mmany cases haven't even been approved by TVA Management. Way to get two strikes with one swing.

Mike

[butlrym]

Check your attitude man, I don't know your damn background.  I was just making an assumption based on the information given.  Have some class about yourself.  It's obvious, I'm not experienced with how they conduct the time frame.  I f'n assumed they would start in Jan, per the schedule I received. 

[Fermi2]

Yet without asking one followup question you assumed I had no idea what I was talking about.
This type of thought process does not bode well for a nuclear career.

[butlrym]

That's irrelevant.  You should choose your word structure more wisely.  There wasn't any reason to be an ass about it, because I simply stated my disagreement. 

[M1Ark]

That's irrelevant.  You should choose your word structure more wisely.  There wasn't any reason to be an ass about it, because I simply stated my disagreement. 

Nice!  Somebody hand me the popcorn...

[nathaneltrct]

He should check his attitude, his word structure? (broadzilla) Really? He is one of the most helpful people on this site, if you are willing to use the search button. You were making an assumption, and I guess that college degree didn't let you find out what assuming does. Let's be honest here, you were coming for advice here, and one of the most well respected, knowledgeable individuals was trying to help you, and you act like he was f'n disrespectin you yo? That's right, I just wanted to make sure you understood it. He's trying to help you and if you can't handle a little criticism from the guy that would be directly or indirectly a potential supervisor in the industry, don't go away mad, just go away.

[HydroDave63]

don't go away mad, just go away.

And then butylrm disappeared..... been a while since I saw Power Word Kill used so effectively here in Nukeworker! 

[Fermi2]

For the record I hate when anyone goes away. He asked for advice and when it wasn't exactly what he wanted to hear.... I guess with the children these days you have to give them milk, cookies, a pat on the head, and a bed time story or they feel the advice given is inadequate.

[retired nuke]

For the record I hate when anyone goes away. He asked for advice and when it wasn't exactly what he wanted to hear.... I guess with the children these days you have to give them milk, cookies, a pat on the head, and a bed time story or they feel the advice given is inadequate.

Society has spent too much time giving everyone a medal after the game, a goodie bag after the party, a lesson on self esteem, and a sense of entitlement.

I doubt he would have made it through the interview if he had gotten one....

[Laundry Man]

Sounds about right Mike.  Saw M.P. the Ops Director at VY last week.  Seems the move from MI has gone well for hil.
LM

[Fermi2]

Sounds about right Mike.  Saw M.P. the Ops Director at VY last week.  Seems the move from MI has gone well for hil.
LM

Too bad it's gone well for him.

[Rennhack]

Sounds about right Mike.  Saw M.P. the Ops Director at VY last week.  Seems the move from MI has gone well for hil.
LM

What's that got to do with "A reflection on the POSS test"?

[waterman]

I passed the POSS test this summer, however, I unfortunatly was not selected for the positon.  Now I know if I failed the test I would have to wait 6 months to retake it.  Now my question is, does my passing grade have a shelf life or is it good for life?

[Smooth Operator]

Each company makes you take the test, IIRC.

If you reapplied with same company, you may not have to take it, again.

[B.PRESGROVE]

As a general rule of thumb I think they keep the results for like 2 or 3 years .  If you go past that date you will prob have to retake the test.  Im looking at that situation here with southern company.  Tested with them a little over 2 years ago and looks like I will have to retake if selected to do so.

Good luck though, and dont give up.  Its been a 2 year process for me, and some guys here waited 5 years before they were finally hired on at some plants.  Stay possitive.

[68rs327]

I just took the Poss Mass test. The test itself took 3 hrs.
The Assembly was pretty easy.
The Mech. Concepts was pretty easy
The Reading was more difficult. Had 4 passages and several questions.
Back ground questions were tricky. Had several anwsers that could go either way. Were 120 questions on it.
The MATH was the killer. We had 7 minutes to complete around 20 questions. All questions were conversion type. I studied the conversions on the practice test, didn't help a lot. A lot of the conversions were cups, table spoons. Several questions were 2 and 3 parts to convert to get the answer. The answers were a,b,c,d, N (none). Some of the answers were N, which bothered me. You work out the problem and are looking for the correct answer and it is not there. Then you wonder if you did something wrong and look over it again, then realize it's not there. I will tell anyone taking the Poss Mass to study, study, study. Take the practice test and time your self.  Our insturctor didn't say anything about leaving problems blank, or how they counted the blank questions. I took everyones advice here and left the harder questions for last. I flew thru the easy questions and came back to the hard ones. I didn't answer all the questions, I hope they only count how many I answered correct. Our instructor said if you don't know the answer you may want to guess? This thru me for a loop.  The graphs was a LOT harder than the practice. It was about 50 questions that were lines that zig zagged all over the paper. You had to follow the lines from say 1. and follow it all the way to the corrosponding letter. Doesn't sound bad, but when you have lines going in every direction on the paper cris crossing everywhere, they tend to get hard to follow. This test was nothing like the practice test.  Math was the killer, skip the hard ones where you have to convert 2 or 3 times and do the easy ones first. Good luck to everyone getting ready to take the Poss Mass, I am glad it is over.

[68rs327]

Some things I would like to add.
As I said the math portion was Exactly like the practice, with the exception that you had to convert most of the answers atleast 2 times to get the answer. Some like 234 miles= how many inches? or 3 kilometers ='s how many inches? 8 hogsheads ='s how many pints? 8 cups ='s how many table spoons? This was by far the hardest part of the test. We had 7 minutes to complete 20 questions. I completed 9, I hope that was enough?
The graph part was NOTHING like the practice test. This test was 50 problems, numbered on one side and letters on the other side. Example, you had to follow the line from problem 1. to the Letter on the other side. Seems simple enough, but the lines zig zag, go up and down, Left to right and side to side all over the paper and when you have 50 lines doing this it is VERY hard to keep up with them.
I think we had 8 minutes to do this. I think I finished 10 or 12 problems.
The reading was 4 LONG passages to read on different subjects. You had around 20 questions to answer on each subject, 80 total questions and 20 minutes to do the test. I looked over the questions first and skimmed thru the passages. I think the was the best and fastest way to do it.
The mechanical concepts was to me the easiest part of the entire test. A lot like the practice test. Questions like which hole to plug in a tank to let the least amount of water out. Also, it showed one of 2 pipes put together with a coupling and said if the pipe turns according the arrow will the pipe lengthen, shorten or stay the same. Fairly simple test.
The Assembly part of the test was just like the EEI practice tests. Study it and you will be fine.
The background part of the test was 120 questions and no time limit.
A lot of the questions had 2 answers that to me would fit, knowing which one to pick was difficult, all true and false.
Questions like do you like doing dangerous things. Now if you like sky diving or race car driving or rock climbing. I think you would answer TRUE. Now is this what they want? who knows because it is not like you can explain your answer.
Another was do you like dancing, drawing art, going to big parties, and enjoy talking to people you dont know? Does this sound like you? T or F? How do you answer this?  Another was did your parents give you guidance when you were young? T or F.
Do you do things on a dare? When others are doing things you dont agree with, do you tell your opinion, T or F?
I like this one, If people drink and drive is it there own business? T or F.
This test was tricky, not sure what they are looking for in this test.

Again the Math was by far the hardest and had the shortest time.
The Graphs were very tricky and I would google the heck out of examples or make your own and practice.
Take the EEI practice tests, they did help.
The math and graphs is the only part of the test that I am worried about. I am just not sure if I completed enough, but I dont see how anyone could complete the entire test. Do the easy ones first then come back to the hard ones.
The instructor didn't say anything about how they grade the test. Nothing about if the ones you didn't do count against you or not?
She did say if you don't know the answer it may be better to guess and move on to the next question, that really thru me for a loop?
I didn't guess at any, if I didn't know the answer I left it blank and moved on to the next question.
Needless to say I am very happy it is over and PRAY that I passed the test.
Good luck to anyone taking the Poss/Mass test. 

[B.PRESGROVE]

Took the test about 2 years ago and remember it well.  Yah the math is designed to be that way.  They want to see if you can do it on the fly under stress.  Dont worry though its not about quantity its about quality.  Im sure youve read alot of posts on the site about this subject and most will tell you skip the ones you dont know first and come back to them.  They dont count ones you dont answer so you did fine, im sure.  Good luck and keep us posted.