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Offline Rennhack

Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« on: Sep 21, 2008, 09:36 »
I hear that DC Cook just had some issues with their turbine... like a thrown blade.

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #1 on: Sep 21, 2008, 12:16 »
Hmmm, I remember the one at Salem - what a mess, shutdown too early to do the outage, had to get another turbine (Seabrook 2) screwed up schedules everywhere - hope nobody got hurt.
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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #2 on: Sep 21, 2008, 12:57 »
The only thing I've been able to find so far is on Wikipedia it says there was a turbine building fire on September 20, 2008.
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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #3 on: Sep 21, 2008, 02:58 »
I hear that DC Cook just had some issues with their turbine... like a thrown blade.
The email that I got said that they had a fire in the main generator.
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #4 on: Sep 21, 2008, 03:18 »
I just talked to a guy who talked to a guy who says that the turbine-generator train was a big wreck.  He says that the fire was caused by the messed-up bearings, which came from trouble with the new turbine rotors.

More and better details to follow.
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Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #5 on: Sep 21, 2008, 03:20 »
Well... I live in the area, and have a friend or two that work there.  My information is all second hand and hear-say... so take it for what it's worth...

I'm told that it is a major mess.  There was an explosion that caused a lot of seismic damage.  Preliminary inspection suggests that the U1 turbine AND turbine deck would need to be replaced.  Pipes have been moved feet, not inches, insulation dislodged.... Some concrete damaged... you get the picture.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #6 on: Sep 21, 2008, 03:24 »
A news article:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9046420&nav=0Rcedls9

Quote
BRIDGMAN, Mich. (WOOD) -- A fire at the DC Cook Nuclear Power Plant caused an emergency response Saturday after a fire in one of the generators.

The fire broke out at 8:05 p.m. Saturday in the unit 1 generator. Firefighters were called to the scene, and by 8:30 p.m. the flames had been knocked down.

The plant's policy though requires that the emergency plan be activated for any fire lasting longer than 15 minutes. Officials tell 24 Hour News 8 that at 8:18 p.m. Saturday the "Unusual Event" emergency plan was activated - that is the lowest of the four emergency levels. State and county officials were notified of the situation.

The emergency alert was deactivated at 4:09 a.m. Sunday.

The actual fire took place in the part of the plant where steam is transferred into electricity, nowhere near the nuclear reactor.

The incident did not pose any danger to the public. The plant has electricity in reserve, therefore the shutdown did affect customers.

Now an investigation is underway at the plant to determine what may have caused the fire and to see how much damage was done to plant.

I know that the fired departments fron 3 local towns responded...

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #7 on: Sep 21, 2008, 03:30 »
As an aside note of trivia, Unit 1 has a General Electric turbine as opposed to Unit 2's Brown Boveri turbine.

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #8 on: Sep 21, 2008, 03:56 »
Update on that trivia.  They replaced at least one of the GE turbines with Siemens-Westinghouse.  This is apparently the place where the damage started, but that could take months to sort out.
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Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #9 on: Sep 21, 2008, 04:03 »
Update on that trivia.  They replaced at least one of the GE turbines with Siemens-Westinghouse.  This is apparently the place where the damage started, but that could take months to sort out.

I was told that Furmanite had just finished a repair of a hydrogen leak in that area a day prior to the incident...

Again.. this is all rummors.  Take it all with a grain of salt.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #10 on: Sep 21, 2008, 04:14 »
Yeah, all we really know is that the plant is a mess.  And, for people in our line of work, that means opportunity.
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Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #11 on: Sep 21, 2008, 04:58 »
Yeah, all we really know is that the plant is a mess.  And, for people in our line of work, that means opportunity.

Well... Short term opportunity... but for the nuclear industry in general... its not a good thing.

Fermi2

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #12 on: Sep 21, 2008, 11:22 »
Can't be any worse than the Fermi2 Turbine Event X Mas Day 1993. Turned the Turbine Building into a total trainwreck and put a million gallons of lake water into the TB Basement.
Also flooded the Radwaste Building.

Plant was down for over a year.

Mike

Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #13 on: Sep 22, 2008, 12:23 »
I certainly hate to hear this news. It is not good for the industry. I haven't heard anything about anyone getting injured, anyone know?
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rlbinc

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #14 on: Sep 22, 2008, 08:45 »
I have no specifics, but the failure modes of turbine generators are easy to summarize from an SRO Instructor perspective...

Small imbalances or blade resonances can cause high vibration due to the large rotating mass and high speed.
If vibrations are allowed to persist, bearing clearances will enlarge due to accelerated wear.
As bearing clearances increase, two effects occur - both bad. Oil pressure lowers at the bearing with the highest clearance due to excessive drain flow. The Turbine Shaft gets an increasing amount of radial room to wobble around. Greater shaft movement exerts high stresses on Turbine Blades, particularly the longer ones in the late stages of the Low Pressure Turbine.
If a blade failure occurs - a piece of steel departs the Turbine assembly at near sonic speed - and collateral damage occurs to the Turbine Casing or condenser. (One rather notorious blade failure resulted in a blade landing in a corn field in the surrounding community.)
If a bearing failure occurs - a large oil leak will occur which will not stop until either the Turbine coasts down or theTurbine Oil reservoir empties.
In either case, the Hydrogen Seals on the Generator are quickly eaten up by excessive radial shaft movement and a Hydrogen Leak will occur.
Oil, Hydrogen, and friction heat combine to pose a threat of fire.

There's a lot of rotating energy in even a tripped Turbine Generator. Lots of mayhem can occur before the Turbine coasts down to a stop.

The root cause of the failure can be isolated down to technical issues over the weeks and months following a failure - the outcomes are pretty much the same. Smoke, fire, mechanical damage, and an extended outage.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #15 on: Sep 22, 2008, 09:00 »
Can't be any worse than the Fermi2 Turbine Event X Mas Day 1993.
Plant was down for over a year.

As I see it, the diff in 15 years is that NOW they are thinking about building more... 15 years ago they were not.  Bad press and an unfavorable election could put an end to to new construction.

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #16 on: Sep 22, 2008, 09:03 »
an unfavorable election could put an end to to new construction.

What are you trying to say?

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #17 on: Sep 22, 2008, 09:06 »
Of course Fermi is a BWR which just made the mess all the more a pain to clean up.  Worked a lot of hours that year.
LM

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #18 on: Sep 22, 2008, 09:18 »
No info on turbine damage beyond the fire and safe shutdown of the reactor on the NRC site....

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/en.html#en44507
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Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #19 on: Sep 22, 2008, 09:39 »
Of course Fermi is a BWR which just made the mess all the more a pain to clean up.  Worked a lot of hours that year.
LM

I'm told that U1 insulation is propbably asbestos... not a rad mess... but still a mess to clean up.

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #20 on: Sep 22, 2008, 11:11 »
Mike,
I wouldn't be so concerned about the effect of this incident on the future of nuclear energy.

This kind of thing happens a lot in fossil plants.

The good side is that the nukes might start to remember why this is a rare occurrence in their plants.  They might realize that all that maintenance they were doing was really a good idea, and the more recent trend of blowing it off is not so good.

I have seen people make big decisions with one eye on the megawatt meter that turned out to be wrong.  Dresden deciding to go back to full power with a cracked generator rotor comes to mind.  They were lucky that it didn't fail, but they were coming down to fix it and turned right around and cranked her up to max without knowing what was causing those vibrations.  All they had to do was stop the thing and look at it to find the damage.  But, that would not have kept the cha-ching coming in.

I mean really!?!?!  Furmanite???  C'mon!!  You don't Bondo the Space Shuttle, and you shouldn't bubble gum the generator either.  Even if that wasn't the cause, it is indicative of the mindset that a band-aid repair to keep the money flowing is okay.  I really wonder how long these guys drive their Mercedes cars with the oil light on.

The best thing that can happen to the future of nukes is to take care of the aging plants that are running now, and build their replacements soon.  the "newest" commercial reactor in this country is over 20 years old.  If you look at the time it takes to build and get a nuke on the grid, the only smart course of action is to get a license extension for your current plant and start building its replacement the same day.

Anyway, the death of the industry won't come from equipment failure, but from the failure of management to do their job and prevent that failure.  Davis Besse was the wake-up call, but maybe this is the buzzer that goes off after they hit the snooze button.

GREED screwed up our economy in general, and it will screw up the smaller economies of energy production too.  Nuclear licensees need to wake up and be responsible to someone other than the Wall Street pundits - or else maybe the industry should die.
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Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #21 on: Sep 22, 2008, 01:00 »
The turbine casing and hood are split and dented.  Chunks of debris, piping, concrete etc are all over the deck.  Looks like a steam line is twisted, even material outside was shaken and broken loose from the side of the building, bearings lifted out of place..... that SOB must've been shakin' and a rattlin' to beat all.

Troy... I'll send ya pics......

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #22 on: Sep 22, 2008, 05:29 »
Troy... I'll send ya pics......

 ???Might not be a good idea :-X
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Offline dinutt

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #23 on: Sep 22, 2008, 06:59 »
I agree with Pwhoppe not a good idea to send pics. Cook will be getting all the media and publicity they don't need or want at this time I am sure! I can honestly say that it is possible to happen to any of the sites out there... Agree totally on what  BeerCourt says about the mess and what needs to be done.  The asbestos mess is a  pain in the b---...it is or should be  a HUGE  eye opener to start looking into this OE now and look ahead in the event of ???  I can only relate to my own experience and part of my job  in the event I had to respond , thankful no one got hurt....  a shame this has happened.I have worked DC Cook in the past, love the plant,people and the area is so nice.Best of luck in this recovery time.keep us updated .......

Di

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #24 on: Sep 22, 2008, 07:31 »
Quote
The asbestos mess is a  pain in the b---...it is or should be  a HUGE  eye opener to start looking into this OE now and look ahead

i totally agree di

also im just so glad to hear no injuries.. i have family as well as friends there in the HP dept. A big shout out to my cuz..glad youre ok bro.

Davis Besse was an eye opener as well as Fermi...in this industry, maintenance SHOULD rule the day..but in all fairness ..im not at DC Cooke and i have not been for a very long time..so i cannot say what maintenance evolutions have occured. i can say this for them..when i was there...maintenance was an everyday occurance and huge projects were always being planned.

Im anxious to see the OE on this event.
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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #25 on: Sep 22, 2008, 08:11 »
I'm not singling out this one plant for any particular blow-off.  I'm speaking more of the general industry trend of making the fuel cycles longer and adjusting the maintenance schedule to match.  Inspections that used to be done every single year are now being done every six to eight years - on plants that aren't getting any newer.

I'm also very concerned with the trend of trying to do patch-up maintenance on line to prevent an unplanned outage.  There really isn't any evidence that that happened here - at least none we know of for certain at this point.  We'll see.
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Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #26 on: Sep 23, 2008, 09:36 »
Nothing "Double Secret Probation" this is a release to the media. BTW don't believe everything you hear this is an essentially new turbine put in during fall of 2006 :-\

COOK UNIT 1 GENERATOR FIRE INSPECTIONS CONTINUE
BRIDGMAN, Mich., Sept. 22, 2008 – Initial indications are that Saturday night’s fire at American Electric Power’s (NYSE: AEP) Cook Nuclear Plant Unit 1 occurred when turbine vibrations led to a generator hydrogen leak that ignited. Damage to the turbines and generator from the fire is minimal, but vibrations did damage the low pressure turbines, bearing supports and some steam piping.
The cause of the vibrations is believed to be an imbalance from the loss of turbine rotor blades.
Hydrogen is used in a closed system to keep the generator cool during operation and the seals that contain the hydrogen were likely damaged by the vibrations.
“We know how to fix and operate equipment, but we are most gratified that there were no personal injuries as a result of the incident,” said Mike Rencheck, AEP senior vice president and chief nuclear officer. “Our plant operations crews, fire brigade, security officers and other emergency responders all performed well. We are also very appreciative of the excellent response and support of local fire fighters and law enforcement.”
The small fire was quickly contained by the plant fire brigade. Fire personnel from Lake Township, Bridgman, Lincoln Township, Royalton Township and Chikaming Township responded to the site or mobilized. Berrien County Sheriff’s deputies and Baroda/Lake Township law enforcement also responded. 
One the plant’s three fire pumps was damaged and a 12-inch water supply line broke. Cook uses Lake Township water as a back-up to on site water storage tanks and is currently connected to that system.
An estimate for returning the unit to service will be made after the turbine casings are removed and the turbines fully inspected. It is expected to take about one to three weeks to complete turbine inspections.
The generator is in the Turbine Building and is separate from the nuclear reactor that is located in the Containment Building. The nuclear systems were unaffected by the generator fire. AEP has sufficient reserve generating capacity so the loss of the Cook unit had no impact on customers. Cook Unit 2 remained at 100 percent power through the incident.
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remowil55

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #27 on: Sep 23, 2008, 07:47 »


DC Cook is a commercial issue, if upper management wants to risk busting a turbine to stay online and make revenue, that's their prerogative,


I have to disagree with ya on this one Marssim, Upper Management has no right to do that.

First, is personnel safety, no one has the right to risk another persons personal safety, such as the people working on the turbine deck. Had a worker been injured or killed, then it become criminal.

Second, they have no right to risk the safety of the plant, Upper Management does not own that plant.

Third, they have a inherent responsability to the local and nuclear community to operate that plant in the safest manner possible.

Fourth, see number two, shareholders own that plant.

Finally knowingly operating the plant in an unsafe condition is an NRC violation. Such as Davis Bessie was.

Finally i have seen a video of an low pressure turbine explosion and fire, i don't recall where it took place but it destroyed the turbine building and about 20 cars in the parking lot because of flying debris, the interstate runs in front of at D.C.Cook less than 1/4 a mile from the turbine deck.

The Nuclear Business doesn't need anymore black eyes because of operating ignorance. This is a Nuclear issue. Any safety, security, or radiological, maintenance failure is a Nuclear Issue.

thenuttyneutron

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #28 on: Sep 23, 2008, 10:41 »
I have to disagree with ya on this one Marssim, Upper Management has no right to do that.

First, is personnel safety, no one has the right to risk another persons personal safety, such as the people working on the turbine deck. Had a worker been injured or killed, then it become criminal.

Second, they have no right to risk the safety of the plant, Upper Management does not own that plant.

Third, they have a inherent responsability to the local and nuclear community to operate that plant in the safest manner possible.

Fourth, see number two, shareholders own that plant.

Finally knowingly operating the plant in an unsafe condition is an NRC violation. Such as Davis Bessie was.

Finally i have seen a video of an low pressure turbine explosion and fire, i don't recall where it took place but it destroyed the turbine building and about 20 cars in the parking lot because of flying debris, the interstate runs in front of at D.C.Cook less than 1/4 a mile from the turbine deck.

The Nuclear Business doesn't need anymore black eyes because of operating ignorance. This is a Nuclear issue. Any safety, security, or radiological, maintenance failure is a Nuclear Issue.


I agree with this.  The loss of a turbine is a RX trip initiator.  That simple fact adds risk to the reactor.  What if there was a signifigant event from a minor system that caused a core melt problem?  Crap, there was one in 1979 and it was in Pa. 

TMI all got started with problems in the instrument air header which set off the chain of events to a core melt event.
« Last Edit: Sep 23, 2008, 10:42 by The Nutty Neutron »

justatech

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #29 on: Sep 24, 2008, 10:02 »
I certainly hate to hear this news. It is not good for the industry. I haven't heard anything about anyone getting injured, anyone know?

That was the first question we asked Monday morning and were told NO, which is the only good news.

vikingfan

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #30 on: Sep 24, 2008, 11:40 »
saw some pics and boy it doesn't look good !!

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #31 on: Sep 25, 2008, 12:43 »
Local radio station coverage:

http://wsjm.com/NRC-Says-Cook-is-Safe/3025294

Plant personell have been told not to discuss the incident - even with family.

Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #32 on: Sep 25, 2008, 11:45 »
Local radio station coverage:

http://wsjm.com/NRC-Says-Cook-is-Safe/3025294

Plant personell have been told not to discuss the incident - even with family.

 ??? Funny....... the afore mentioned, "plant personnel", are the ones sending all the pictures and notifications from the PM around.  I'm sure half the country knows what happened by now.

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Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #34 on: Sep 26, 2008, 09:16 »
Reuters article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSN2527572420080925



Wow, they "talk purtier than a two dollar whore"...... -  bastardized from slim pickens, I think

They ain't coming back online in two to three weeks.
« Last Edit: Sep 26, 2008, 09:16 by Melrose »

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #35 on: Sep 26, 2008, 10:22 »
They ain't coming back online in two to three weeks.

Thats what I was thinking...

rlbinc

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #36 on: Sep 26, 2008, 01:02 »
In my humble opinion...it will take one to three weeks to return the unit to service.
After about a year of repair work.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #37 on: Sep 26, 2008, 01:48 »
In my humble opinion...it will take one to three weeks to return the unit to service.
After about a year of repair work.
Exactly...  They have MAJOR turbine damage.  Unless there is an extra turbine sitting around some where... it isn't happening.  - Berrings are shot, bladse thrown... heck, even the housing is damaged...

I wouldn't even buy 2-3 months.

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #38 on: Sep 26, 2008, 02:15 »
Housing, easy fix, cut out patch.  Finding another rotor or three, some extra diaphragms and exciter might take a little longer ;).
LM

Fermi2

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #39 on: Sep 26, 2008, 05:26 »
In my humble opinion...it will take one to three weeks to return the unit to service.
After about a year of repair work.

I've seen the pictures and based on the very similar damage as Fermi had I'm thinking a year of work, about a month of testing.

Mike

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #40 on: Sep 26, 2008, 05:48 »
I've seen the pictures and based on the very similar damage as Fermi had I'm thinking a year of work, about a month of testing.

Mike

Pictures..where? :)

Fermi2

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #41 on: Sep 26, 2008, 07:43 »
Dave,

Email me. I have a bit over a dozen. Pretty impressive.

Mike

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #42 on: Sep 26, 2008, 10:16 »
Housing, easy fix, cut out patch.  Finding another rotor or three, some extra diaphragms and exciter might take a little longer ;).
LM

You haven't seen this casing.  It is more than just dents and holes.
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Offline HydroDave63

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #43 on: Sep 26, 2008, 10:28 »
Casings are easy....it's getting a couple 100 ton forgings made, and new blades cut, it's a year from when your check clears. Saw this at a plant once upon a time....

Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #44 on: Sep 27, 2008, 07:13 »
Pictures..where? :)

Dave...
Check out the Cook photo album http://www.nukeworker.com/pictures/thumbnails-120.html
someone has loaded the initial (first entry) pictures there. ;)





Fermi2

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #45 on: Sep 27, 2008, 08:57 »
Mine are lots better!

Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #46 on: Sep 27, 2008, 09:01 »
Mine are lots better!

As I said... the are THE prelim photos,
I've got a disc of >50 taken after they broke into things, too many to post, ya wanna see 'em, lemme know, later

BTW
You got pictures of the brass plates that were brazed to the buckets during tuning?  How 'bout pics of the one that fell off?  ;D


rlbinc

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #47 on: Sep 27, 2008, 03:24 »
I remember teaching about trip redundancy.
Overspeed Trip has a Backup Overspeed Trip. Turbine Stop Valves and Turbine Control Valves all close off steam to the HP Turbine on a Trip, there's redundancy there.
Intermediate Stop Valves and Intercept Valves similarly close off steam to the LP Turbines on a Trip. There are Lockout Relays and Backup Lockout Relays.

One of my students asked, "What backs up the High Vibration Trip?"
The answer, "Low Bearing Oil Header Pressure Trip after the thing comes apart, and if it's bad enough, a Low Vacuum Trip, after a blade goes through the condenser or turbine hood." :(

The lesson: (and I don't know if they did) Folks, don't EVER bypass Turbine Supervisory Trips.
« Last Edit: Sep 27, 2008, 03:25 by rlbinc »

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #48 on: Sep 27, 2008, 05:41 »
Please note, the AEP (DC Cook) legal team has requested that we do not display any pictures which relate to the recent turbine issue

Your assistance in this matter is appreciated. 
« Last Edit: Sep 27, 2008, 11:24 by Rennhack »

Melrose

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #49 on: Sep 28, 2008, 08:44 »
Skeered?

just funnin'  ;)
« Last Edit: Sep 28, 2008, 08:45 by Melrose »

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #50 on: Sep 28, 2008, 09:48 »
Time for a 'Back online at Mode 1' pool? ;)

remowil55

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #51 on: Sep 29, 2008, 05:47 »
Please note, the AEP (DC Cook) legal team has requested that we do not display any pictures which relate to the recent turbine issue.

Wonder what there trying to hide.Maybe that it's a hell of a lot worse than they lead the public to believe, and there trying to do damage control.

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #52 on: Sep 29, 2008, 07:44 »
Wonder what there trying to hide.Maybe that it's a hell of a lot worse than they lead the public to believe, and there trying to do damage control.

Nobody is trying to hide anything. There are insurance issues among others. The turbine workings are proprietary and  they want to avoid crossing those lines
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Jr8black3

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #53 on: Sep 29, 2008, 09:09 »
I've worked for both Hoppe and Gerry,, they are both great,, But I know Hoppe has his feet on the grounds and knows what is going on.. I'm sure in the end Pat will know more then, Gerry.. Sorry Gerry thats honesty..D.C. Cook will make it through it..

 

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #54 on: Oct 02, 2008, 09:14 »
It is not that the turbine design is proprietary.  It is a matter of photos being published that are taken out of context or that are not what they are purported to be.
Anybody can post a picture of a damaged turbine and say it was DC Cook's.  But, if the plant prohibits taking such photos, they have a better defense against misinformation being passed out to the public.

If the workings of this machine were actually proprietary, then Siemens would never have been able to put their rotors into a GE turbine in the first place.  For one thing, they spin in opposite directions.  So, in order to manufacture a set of rotors to fit into a GE turbine, they would have to have knowledge of the GE turbine design.

In any case, the whole thing is being closely watched and handled by a lot of lawyers, who are charged with protecting the interests of the various parties involved.  It is pretty reasonable and prudent for the owner of this turbine to take control of how this condition is presented to the public.  As you can see from just reading this thread, speculation can grow rampant.  The people who are on site right now to disassemble this machine are going to have a lot of measuring and analyzing to do before they know what happened.  But any bozo who looks at a grainy picture on the internet can form his own opinion.

Anyway, we can talk about it here, but please help out Mike by honoring the request.  No photos of the turbine with the casings removed.  And try to remember that this discussion is all speculation.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

highiron17

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #55 on: Oct 03, 2008, 11:46 »
Any Idea on when they will start putting on the crafts?

Build Union,Buy Union
highiron17

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #56 on: Oct 04, 2008, 10:50 »
Last week.  Call your BA.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline RRhoads

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #57 on: Dec 02, 2008, 03:33 »
well..this was released on the AEP website so it is safe!
here
looks like Sept at the earliest or in 2010!
« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2008, 06:38 by RRhoads »

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #58 on: Dec 02, 2008, 10:59 »
Heck we did it in less than a year at Fermi II back when we had the big one.  Granted it was at reduced output but we were a BWR and flooded the the Turbine Building and Radwaste basements with millions of gallons of contaminated oily water.  Call in Shakey Joe of MPC they would get the job done.  Good luck to them at Cook.
LM

michael49022

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #59 on: Dec 08, 2008, 10:42 »
BRIDGMAN, Mich. - One of the two units at Cook Nuclear Power Plant will remain out of service until September 2009 at the earliest, American Electric Power has announced.

Repairing and replacing the unit's damaged turbine rotors is estimated to cost up to $332 million, the company said.

Cook's Unit 1 has been out of service since Sept. 20 after severe vibrations, caused when broken low-pressure turbine blades damaged the main turbine and generator.

The Cook Nuclear Plant on U.S. 12 is about 25 miles north of Michigan City.

A successful repair could allow the unit to operate at reduced power by next September, according to a company statement, but the rotors will ultimately be replaced to ensure the long-term viability of the unit.

If the repair is not successful, Unit 1 will not restart until new rotors are available. In that case, it would not be up and running until 2010.

Three new low-pressure turbines made by Siemens were installed in Unit 1 in 2006. Blades broke on two of the three turbines. The high-pressure turbine and main generator are original plant equipment made by General Electric.

AEP said it expects that all costs incurred to return Unit 1 to service will be recovered through insurance, vendor warranty or the regulatory process.

This repair option includes straightening the rotor shafts and modifying each rotor by removing one or two of the largest rows of blades until new rotors can be made.

Returning to service without one or two rows of blades would result in a power reduction of 100 to 250 megawatts from Unit 1's rated net capacity of 1,030 megawatts. A megawatt is roughly equal to the energy needed to power 1,000 homes.

Work to straighten the first rotor shaft has started. Work on the third rotor will finish in mid-January.

Cook Communications Manager Bill Schalk said the issues with Unit 1 will not affect AEP employment at the plant. More than 400 contractors are working on additional inspections and repairs at the plant, he said. AEP expects sufficient reserve generating capacity to make up for the loss of capacity at Unit 1.

Schalk said the Cook plant produces roughly 6 percent of AEP's total power generation.

The refueling outage for Unit 2, which continues to operate at full power with a rated net capacity of 1,070 megawatts, will take place as scheduled in the spring of 2009.

The refueling outage scheduled in the fall of 2009 for Unit 1 will be moved to 2010, with the date dependent on when it returns to service.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #60 on: Dec 08, 2008, 11:36 »
That's what happens when you put bargain parts into a finely-tuned machine.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #61 on: Dec 09, 2008, 03:05 »
That's what happens when you put bargain parts into a finely-tuned machine.

Exactly! Seems like every Siemens turbine is a balancing act....literally!

Yurij

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DC Cook
« Reply #62 on: Jan 21, 2009, 01:10 »
Any word on new work packages for (Unit#1) fitters/welders?Any new travelers? Thanx!

Offline tuj

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #63 on: Sep 17, 2009, 06:58 »
Any word on what caused the problem and how the turbine repairs are going?  I haven't heard much follow-up on this accident.

Offline tugger

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #64 on: Sep 17, 2009, 09:48 »
I am  a laborer currently working at DC Cook.  My entire workday is spent up on the turbine deck.  From what I have heard, the outage got extended another 30-days due to something in the generator has to be removed and sent out for additional work.  It will take 30 days to complete that which explains why the outage has been extended.  Tuesday night, some of the scaffolding was removed to take out the part.  1 of the turbines is currently on the deck being serviced by the millwrights.  I think they are now looking toward the end of november before they can sync-to-grid.  Strangely enough, I was also on the turbine deck in 2006 when they put those turbines in. Six weeks at 91 hours a week, 2006 was profitable!

Offline Lorrie Henson

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #65 on: Sep 17, 2009, 03:00 »
Do you know when they are planning to begin the outage?

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #66 on: Sep 17, 2009, 07:19 »
They are in week 54 of the outage.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline tugger

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #67 on: Sep 18, 2009, 05:05 »
I could be mistaken but I do believe the refuling outage for unit 1 starts in March. 

Offline Nuke Dave

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #68 on: Sep 18, 2009, 09:47 »
They are in week 54 of the outage.
;) ;)

Actually 9/20/09 is the One Year anniversary.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #69 on: Sep 19, 2009, 11:34 »
I could be mistaken but I do believe the refuling outage for unit 1 starts in March. 

It was this past March.  Look for the next U1 outage in the fall of '10.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Lorrie Henson

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #70 on: Sep 19, 2009, 11:46 »
Troy, others on here have stated there will be a U1 outage March 2010 as well.  Mike was even surprised by this... but I've not seen anything official yet.  Maybe Pat could come in and clarify??

Offline Paul

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #71 on: Sep 19, 2009, 11:47 »
As long as we have start up on U1 this fall, the outage will be in March, and U2 in the fall.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe - Albert Einstein

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #72 on: Sep 20, 2009, 10:12 »
Thanks Paul,

I got the units confused.  Unit 2 was refueled this spring.  So it will be down again in the fall of 2010, correct?

And Unit 1 will start up sometime this fall (perhaps) and have another outage in March?  I'm assuming (since Unit 1 has only burned about a third of it's current fuel cycle) that there is another reason for putting it down again so soon (possibly to avoid having two outages in the fall?).  Would it be too big a leap to conclude that they will be replacing the MSR's in Unit 1 during that outage?

Realizing that nothing can be predicted with total certainty, it would be good to know what the plans are for next year.  Please keep the info coming.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Offline Lorrie Henson

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #73 on: Sep 20, 2009, 02:05 »
As long as we have start up on U1 this fall, the outage will be in March, and U2 in the fall.

Paul, is Tugger correct that the U1 March 2010 outage has been extended 30 days?  Meaning it will be a 60 day outage?  Thanks so much for all the information.  Trying to figure out what we'll be doing this spring.

Lorrie

Offline Paul

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #74 on: Sep 23, 2009, 10:03 »
Last I heard U1 was set for 40 days.
That is all based on the unit starting up in October [since they have reprimanded people for saying otherwise, I agree :-\ ]
If anything new comes around I will be sure to post it.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe - Albert Einstein

Offline Rennhack

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #75 on: Nov 26, 2009, 11:12 »
I heard they got the turbine put together, and was powering the unit up.  Is that correct?

Offline TENN-1

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #76 on: Nov 26, 2009, 09:02 »
Unit 1 is in Mode 3

Turbine assembly is moving steadily forward
Things come to those who wait, but usually it's stuff left over from those who hustle!

Offline RiskEngineer

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #77 on: Jan 22, 2010, 09:51 »
Please note, the AEP (DC Cook) legal team has requested that we do not display any pictures which relate to the recent turbine issue

Your assistance in this matter is appreciated. 

Now that the unit has returned to service does that request still stand?  Has AEP released any photographs to the industry.  I know some are out there as I have seen them but I am wondering about the owners approach still.
Cheers, Andrew

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #78 on: Jan 24, 2010, 01:31 »
Now that the unit has returned to service does that request still stand?  Has AEP released any photographs to the industry.  I know some are out there as I have seen them but I am wondering about the owners approach still.

By now anyone they wanted to see the pictures already has ;)

Offline RiskEngineer

Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #79 on: Jan 25, 2010, 03:55 »
HydroDave63,

Unfortunately there are people out there who have not seen the pictures especially turbine engineers outside of the North American nuclear industry.  There are some valuable lessons, for all turbine engineers, from this incident that get reinforced with pictures of the train wreck.

Does anyone have pictures that they are in a position to share?  I have seen some but I am always interested in more.
Cheers, Andrew

Offline Frankie Love

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #80 on: Jan 25, 2010, 04:30 »
Likewise, started there in "79" and would like to see what happened to the old bird.

matthew.b

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Re: Cook U1 Turbine Problems
« Reply #81 on: Jan 27, 2010, 11:18 »
By now anyone they wanted to see the pictures already has ;)

Not me!  If anyone is willing to share....

 


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