Wait for degree then job, or job then degree?

[maddbomber83]

Hello;

My question is this. . .
Should I just tighten my belt and collect unemployment for a few months, maybe pick up a random job where I'm at and finish my degree, and then look for a good paying job?  Or should I look for a job that will take me as I am, and then finish the degree and see where I can go from there?

The details are. . .

I am an ELT E6 with 7 years in and am receiving a medical retirement.  I have between now and 9/11 to give them my date I want to be discharged, and can choose a date between October and December 11th.

I have been working on my Nuke Eng Tech degree from Excelsior, the ABET certified one, for about a year.  I will have all my classes completed with the exception of the Technology Assessment by April.

Now that I have a time frame on when I am getting out, I've started to look at the Jobs.  I don't have much preference on where I live.

I have a lot of other questions, like where to get a job! LoL, but I've only done the search on the above question and still have a lot of research to do on the others.  Plus, is it BZ? would make a smart-ass and justified comment on my search skills if I asked them now.

Thanks for any input!

~B

[Fermi2]

There is no such thing as medical retirement.

Mike

[maddbomber83]

There is no such thing as medical retirement.

Mike

Well, the full version of it is Temporary Disability Retired List (TDRL).
For 5 years I receive all the retired benefits as if I retired after 20 years of service.  During those 5 years every 18 months I go for a medical evaluation.  If my condition improves (there is currently no cure), then they change my discharge from retired to separated.  If conditions stays the same or gets worse, then they update my disability rating and the retirement is permanent.

I receive the blue retired military ID, plats, pension (half E6 base pay), medical coverage (for the condition) and anything else retirement entitles you to including applicable state ran vet programs.

I call it medical retirement because I am being retired and receive a pension, not separated and receiving a one time check.  I would just say retired as technically that is what it is (like I did 20); but I did not do my 20 so to me it is different.  Those who did 20 went through more than 2x as much service than I, so feels odd placing myself in the same group. 

Edit:
The official use is disability retirement.  So I guess I'll use that instead of medical.
Types of retirment:
http://www.navytimes.com/benefits/getting_out/online_hbml08_retirement_disabilityretirement/
I fall under the <8 years but =>30% in the line of duty.

[Fermi2]

I'm well aware of the rules as I left the military with >30% however you are not retired and your benefits do not come from the Navy. You'll have to apply with the VA and it depends on what THEY rate you.

Trust me on this...

Mike

[alphacookie]

I'm well aware of the rules as I left the military with >30% however you are not retired and your benefits do not come from the Navy. You'll have to apply with the VA and it depends on what THEY rate you.

Trust me on this...

Mike

The Defense Department offers two types of disability retirement:

Permanent disability
Service members officially rated at least 30 percent permanently disabled, according to guidelines, are entitled to disability retirement pay from the Defense Department. To qualify, they must have spent at least eight years in the military, or the disability must have been incurred in the line of duty.

If one of the requirements is met, retirees can receive retired pay based on the larger of two formulas: multiplying the retired pay base either by the percentage of the disability rating or by 2.5 percent of the number of years of service, up to a 75 percent ceiling.

The retired pay base is final basic pay for those who entered service before Sept. 8, 1980, and average basic pay over the three highest-earning years for those who entered service on or after that date.

The Defense Department and VA disability retirement systems have important differences, chief among them the fact that the services assign ratings only to medical conditions deemed "physically unfitting," with the intent of compensating for the loss of a military career. VA may rate any service-connected condition to compensate for the loss of civilian employability.

Also, military disability retirement ratings are final upon disposition, and VA ratings can vary over time, depending on how the condition progresses.

Finally, military disability compensation varies not only by the percentage disability rating, but also by a member's years of service and basic pay; VA payments are based on the percentage rating of the disability and the veteran's family status.

Temporary disability
Some service members have medical problems that prevent them from carrying out their military duties but may not be permanent. They are placed on the temporary disability retirement list maintained by each service and Defense Department paymasters.

The amount of monthly pay for those on the temporary retired list is determined by a different set of rules than those that govern permanent disability.

The minimum payment is 50 percent of the last amount of basic pay before the member was taken off duty; the maximum is 75 percent.

Those who receive temporary disability retirement pay must undergo medical exams every 18 months to determine the status of their disability. Within five years, doctors must determine whether the disability is permanent. At that point, they can be returned to duty, given a disability rating that qualifies them for either permanent disability retirement pay or disability severance pay, or separated with no benefits.

Disability severance
This is paid to members who have less than 20 years of service and disabilities rated less than 30 percent. Disability severance pay equals two months of a member's basic pay for each year of service, up to 12 years (a maximum of 24 months of basic pay). These members also may be eligible for monthly disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs if VA rules that the disability is service-connected.

Those with limited disabilities may be retained by their service, depending on individual circumstances.

I was rated 10% by the Navy with 17yrs of service.  Therefore, I received Disability severance from the Navy.  I addition, I was rated 70% by the VA.  I receive a check from them once a month.  However, the VA withholds $121/month from their payment in order to recoup the total Disability Severance I received from the military.

While there is such a thing as Medical Retirement, Temporary Medical Retirement or Disability Severance, one can not double dip if they so choose to be rated by the VA.

[maddbomber83]

I was rated 10% by the Navy with 17yrs of service.  Therefore, I received Disability severance from the Navy.  I addition, I was rated 70% by the VA.  I receive a check from them once a month.  However, the VA withholds $121/month from their payment in order to recoup the total Disability Severance I received from the military.

While there is such a thing as Medical Retirement, Temporary Medical Retirement or Disability Severance, one can not double dip if they so choose to be rated by the VA.

Yeup!  I'm aware of all of that, and thank you for the backup.

Just to clarify all that though . . .

I have a disability rating from the Navy for 30%.  The condition is called Crohn's Disease and 30% is the minimum for it.  I can receive up to 75% for it, but I'm hoping not!

Based off that alone, I will receive a check from the Navy twice a month for half E6 pay for 5 years.  At the end (or if they decide its perminant before then) I will be permanently retired and receive 30% of E6 pay for life.

Now with the VA, they will take that 30% and add any other conditions (I have a few others I may be able to get rated for).  That total combined rating (say 60%) is what they will give of my base pay.  In order to receive that I have to wave my Navy pension (because it is a pension, if it was a severance pay I would have to do what you are doing and repay part of it with the VA money). 

So, if I do nothing, then the Navy pays me, and its taxed, and right now it would be 50% and later 30% of E6 pay.  If I fill out the paperwork and get rated by the VA and wave my Navy retirement pay, then I would get the check from the VA, for whatever they rate me, and it would be tax free.  And as everyone has said, no double dipping!

I am asking a bunch of questions about it, and have been in contact with the VA guy at my base.  I go through SEPS/TAPS and DTAPS for the second time 2 weeks from now.  So I feel rather comfortable with the process, and what is actually going on.

All of that was not the intent of my question though.

How important is it to have that degree first?

I am almost done with it, but will be out before completion.  If I work things right, I'll be out maybe 5 months before graduation.

So, I could grab a job that does not require a degree, and then once I get my degree see what options I have; or I could just grab an odd job and finish the degree, and then look for a good paying job.

Any input on or guidance on that?

Oh! And thank you for trying to make sure I understood what was going on with the Navy/VA retirment thing.

~B

[UncaBuffalo]

My question is this. . .
Should I just tighten my belt and collect unemployment for a few months, maybe pick up a random job where I'm at and finish my degree, and then look for a good paying job?  Or should I look for a job that will take me as I am, and then finish the degree and see where I can go from there?

From a money standpoint, I've heard that a a person who is working/investing the money will always end up ahead of a person who loses the income generating time to get a degree.

From an entertainment standpoint, finish the degree...full-time school is way more fun than trying to squeeze classes in after work.

[maddbomber83]

You might not care for BZ but we do.  We value BZ and his contributions.  I'd consider using his knowledge base wisely.  Like with the following:

Regarding the Degree or NO Degree for work,
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,7779.0.html

I started this thread a while back but the info should help.

Good Luck.

Jason

LoL,
I never said I didn't care for BZ!  I just read a lot of threads, and they usually started with do a search!  And from your link, it seems I did not search back far enough.  As for the side conversation; just pointed out where I was coming from and that it was not the direction I was hoping the thread would go.

Your link and the info from BZ and everyone else in there was right along the lines I was looking for.

So, from what I've read, look for the jobs now and if I can get into an entry level position with my current credentials then take it.  Adding the degree just adds to the points for getting an interview.  And it seems you need an entry level position to then move up, and the degree may help get an interview once ready to move up.

Thank you for the help!

Now I need to decide what region and thus, what plants I want to apply to.  My long term goal is to work on a plant for a while, and then transfer over to training.  I don't mind shift work now, but I don't want to be in shift work 10 years from now, and I LOVE training.

[JustinHEMI05]

Did you manage to qualify EWS in your 7 years?

Justin

[alphacookie]

Yeup!  I'm aware of all of that, and thank you for the backup.........

.........All of that was not the intent of my question though.

How important is it to have that degree first?

I am almost done with it, but will be out before completion.  If I work things right, I'll be out maybe 5 months before graduation.

So, I could grab a job that does not require a degree, and then once I get my degree see what options I have; or I could just grab an odd job and finish the degree, and then look for a good paying job.

Any input on or guidance on that?

Oh! And thank you for trying to make sure I understood what was going on with the Navy/VA retirment thing.

~B

Sorry for not answering your original question.  I got caught in trying to back you up on your unfortunate situation.

If you were several years away from finishing your degree, I would get a job and finish the degree as time permits.  But, you are only five months away from finishing your degree.  So, finish it and get that phase of your life over with.  Why turn 5 months into a year or more when you don't have to.  Plus getting a degree will make that much more marketable over other prior Navy guys without degrees.

Do you neeeeeed a degree?  Probably not.  However, you are soooo close.

[JustinHEMI05]

Sorry for not answering your original question.  I got caught in trying to back you up on your unfortunate situation.

If you were several years away from finishing your degree, I would get a job and finish the degree as time permits.  But, you are only five months away from finishing your degree.  So, finish it and get that phase of your life over with.  Why turn 5 months into a year or more when you don't have to.  Plus getting a degree will make that much more marketable over other prior Navy guys without degrees.

Do you neeeeeed a degree?  Probably not.  However, you are soooo close.

I agree, as long as you have prepared yourself to perform such a task, like saving some money.

Justin

[G-reg]

If you were several years away from finishing your degree, I would get a job and finish the degree as time permits.  But, you are only five months away from finishing your degree.  So, finish it and get that phase of your life over with.  Why turn 5 months into a year or more when you don't have to.  Plus getting a degree will make that much more marketable over other prior Navy guys without degrees.

Do you neeeeeed a degree?  Probably not.  However, you are soooo close.

I have to agree with Alpha - wrap up your degree first.

Start talking to the VA & the Navy College Office now (while you're still Active) about all the in's & out's of the GI Bill.  Figuring everything out will be easier to do while you're still Active Duty, and you'll thank yourself for being prepared when the day comes to start filing all the GI Bill paperwork.

And those five months you will spend finishing your degree can also be used in tandem with job hunting/research...

Just my thoughts,
- Greg

[alphacookie]

And those five months you will spend finishing your degree can also be used in tandem with job hunting/research...

Just my thoughts,
- Greg

Very good point!  The Navy could give a rats A$$ about your future let alone give you enough time to job hunt.  You are just an unfortunate negative impact on their retention figures.  I am sure they will give you some time.  However, you are in a very unexpected transition in your life and may be prone to making a rash decision, .....like accepting the first crappy job that comes along.  I have seen it.  I am sure others have seen or experienced it as well and can back me up.  Go to school, sort out your life and relax.

[wlrun3@aol.com]

 

 ...maintain your momentum...apply to grad school right away...take GRE...utilize combination of VA/grants/scholarships/loans...apply to take EIT Exam right away...get the grad degree as quickly as you can..don't slow down until you get your first professional job...at the speed you're traveling, maybe two years...

[cincinnatinuke]

First, you get to keep Tricare for you and your dependents while on TDRL.  It isnt just for your seervice connected disability.  Along with TAPS, go to DTAPS (where if it was like mine, you will have your entire VA package ready to be mailed by the end of the week, except you wont have a DD-214), and talk to a TRICARE rep.  BTW where are you stationed?  For me it was SanDog which made it great due to the abundance of folks in the medical fields there.

Now to the original question.  Finish your degree!  Finish your degree!  Finish your degree.

Choose the latest date possible (12/11) and ask to go home awaiting orders.  You only need 1/2 day of leave on the books to do this.  Get moved and be home, assuming you want to go home, though you can ask to be moved anywhere in the US.  While home you will be collecting BAH and full pay for the area you just left.  For me I was getting SD BAH in Indiana for about 2 months which effectively doubled my pay.  By mid December your current quarter/semester should be over and all you will have is your final class.

Get to your unemployment office ASAP.  Start collecting and start looking for a job.  Not sure how disabling Crohns is, but you can apply for Disability from Social Security.  Unemployment and SS wont make you rich, even on top of your VA and Navy money.

As for that last class, it is very low key( I have completed the same degree).  You have some deadlines to meet but it is rather easy to work on at nights and weekends and have the correct stuff for submittal.  IOW you make your own hours up for this class.  Keep the momentum going and by April you will be done.

If you need info on VA, TDRL, or your degree I have a pretty good understanding of it all since I have been there done that.

I hope this helps and God Bless!

David

[Khak-Hater]

Is Excelsior a "mail order" degree?  No offense intended to mail order degree's [I have two].  Rather, my question is in regard to whether you need to be in your current location to complete it (e.g., must you physically attend resident classes?).  If not, then get on with your career and finish it on schedule wherever you move.  However, take advantage of all of the Navy's free CLEP opportunities while you can before you separate. 

Your first job out probably won't care whether you have the degree or not.  It'll provide opportunity for advancement or a better job a year or two down the line.  Do you plan on going into HP, Ops, or something else?  If the answer is HP, then I'd highly recommend registering for the next NRRPT exam ASAP and taking it at your next opportunity.  Not only will it count with potential employers as much as the degree, but studying for it will help you with your transition to a new set of regulations and radiological concerns.

In any case, pushing forward with the Master's degree is good advice.  UT offers an on line M.S. in NE, either straight or with specializations in either HP or NCS [BIG MONEY, low stress].  You can do it wherever you move [on line] or in residence here in beautiful and inexpensive Knoxville, while working in nearby Oak Ridge [a city of hundreds of nuclear employers].

Overall, I'd say that, unless you are looking forward to some time off [which might be cool at this point in your life], there is no point in putting life on hold while you complete something that could just as easily be completed elsewhere.  If, on the other hand, you are in a residency program (i.e., where you physically attend classes), then by all means stay and complete it.  The industry is filled with people who have almost completed this or that.  So much so, that I don't even think that I'd mention it [unless asked] until it's done.

Good Luck,

MGM

[volpej79]

I work at a head hunter company and we get alot of requests for Navy Nukes. Any former Nuke is desirable, but ones with degrees and those who are EWS/EOOW make more money (10K-15K). If you want your next job to be a permanent one then go for your degree, this will open up the senior positions instead of entry level technicians.
Thomas Edison is not always desirable...

NR

[Pirate Bob]

I've heard from some of the staff at P-type that ETs are included in the making more money group.  Is this true, or is it only EWS/EOOW?

I work at a head hunter company and we get alot of requests for Navy Nukes. Any former Nuke is desirable, but ones with degrees and those who are EWS/EOOW make more money (10K-15K). If you want your next job to be a permanent one then go for your degree, this will open up the senior positions instead of entry level technicians.
Thomas Edison is not always desirable...

NR

[Pirate Bob]

Bit of a misunderstanding, not a problem.  What I meant was that the staff were saying that even if an ET (senior-in-rate) didn't get EWS/EOOW qualified, that they could still get that higher salary than, say, EMs and MMs.  I wasn't sure if what they were saying was correct or not, which is why I was asking.  Stranger things have been true.  I assume nothing and ask everything, as taught.   

Not to pick on ya' Pirate Bob.  But, re-read NR's post.  I've highlighted the key points.

It's great that we have a sense of pride in our rate ... BUT ... NOTHING beats the EWS/EOOW qual.  I don't even think that a degree gives that type of influence.  A degree can't make the engine room ready in all respects.  A degree can't make you a better operator.

And, for the record ET's on my boat broke everything mechanical they touched.  And, I do mean EVERYTHING!

So, it would probably mean that EM/ET/MM gets you that Nuclear NEC.  A degree gets you in the door.  And, EWS/EOOW gets you respect and attention you deserve.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.  But, you have to qualify somehting before you're worth anything in this life. 

YMMV.

[JustinHEMI05]

I've heard from some of the staff at P-type that ETs are included in the making more money group.  Is this true, or is it only EWS/EOOW?

LOL false false false false. Think about it, they are IN THE NAVY!!! How do they know? They don't have a clue.

No one, again, NO ONE cares what rate you were.

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

LOL false false false false. Think about it, they are IN THE NAVY!!! How do they know? They don't have a clue.

No one, again, NO ONE cares what rate you were.

Justin

I care

[JustinHEMI05]

I care

Well, except for you.

Justin

[Pirate Bob]

Awe.  That makes me feel all warm and cozy inside.

I care

[HydroDave63]

Awe.  That makes me feel all warm and cozy inside.

The warmth you feel is just the Beta burns from our scathing sarcasm