New SRB numbers are out

[93-383]

The new SRB numbers are out. I think the Navy is getting desperate. I commented last exam cycle that an alarming rate of E4's made E5 which lead me to believe that very few people where taking STAR. If they can't get people to add two years to their contract with 90K then maybe it's time for big navy to start looking at the problems in the community.

Incidentally my command sent out talking points to all the Career Counselors so they could try to explain to all the non-nukes why nearly every rate had their SRB reduced and the nukes went up.

http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/DAAC9CCA-DF97-4FB4-AB11-5481E01A576D/0/NAV09050.txt

[Wirebiter]

Great googlie-mooglie!.      A 12.0 multiple!  Looks like there were a couple things slipped in on the bailout out bill that no one caught.

I like the part that says..."ENLISTED NUCLEAR PROGRAM SRB AWARD LEVELS ARE IN EFFECT FOR A LIMITED PERIOD."

and this one too:..."THIS IS A UNIQUE REENLISTMENT OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR MOST CRITICAL NUCLEAR SKILLS."

That would make reenlisting a few more years for say, shore duty, almost a no-brainer.

[Trackman]

I wonder when Big Navy is going to realize that throwing more money at the sailors isn't going to fix the attrition problem in the nuke program.

[byroneduardo]

I know someone working with nuke recruiting specifically.  apparently nuclear field goals are going up while non nuclear goals have been reduced.  this is because big navy realizes that money cannot outweigh quality of life issues.  so manning up the rx departments and the watchbill will theoretically allow quality of life to rise.  it will be interesting to see if it works but good to know that they realize that $ is not a fix for all problems.   several plants across the US are starting their own recruiting and training pipelines going into high schools, tech schools, and community colleges to try to recruit potential future employees. 

[TJ Nuke]

Well, unless the Navy fixes their prototype school in NY soon, they are going to have to keep a lot more nukes that have been leaking out the other end.  It looks like currently they must have *Large Number Removed* waiting or hung up because of NY.










*Current numbers are forbidden from being published by any Navy personnel*
Keep that info to yourself your friendly Sr. Moderator

[Neutron Whisperer]

Zone A went to 12.0, while Zone B stayed the same.  I don't the navy's problem is rooted in trying to keep Zone A guys reenlisting.  The problem is keeping the Zone B people.

[Wirebiter]

Zone A went to 12.0, while Zone B stayed the same.  I don't the navy's problem is rooted in trying to keep Zone A guys reenlisting.  The problem is keeping the Zone B people.

If the Navy is trying to boost the number of instructors at P-type, then this would make sense.  Zone B is still high enough that it may snag some people to continue on, but its probably not as effective to try and bring zone C sailors in for P-type duty.  The immediate needs for P-type staff may be driving this big jump in SRB multiple.

Just my guess.

[mclumber1]

If the Navy is trying to boost the number of instructors at P-type, then this would make sense.  Zone B is still high enough that it may snag some people to continue on, but its probably not as effective to try and bring zone C sailors in for P-type duty.  The immediate needs for P-type staff may be driving this big jump in SRB multiple.

Just my guess.

I just got my orders to NY.  I'm going to zone B in April to push my contract out to 2013.    I guess the good news is that I'll get over $30k (before taxes) for basically extending for 15 months.

[bdhoe]

Look at Elt surface and sub mults..Elt(by the way big diffrence between a sub smag and a surface puke smag)subs have almost no shot at any shore duty..crappy(back 2 a boat?!?)...it started about 5 or 6 years ago and is worse.  Its the sad fact of the program they push and there is no longer a push back...(not to say I know there are some of the best operators in the fleet..the best..my gold striped RO's are my favorites..no balls correct the CO in his training every time) so when 33something something is higher..know why..but u will know more sub elt than anyone..

[Wirebiter]

I just got my orders to NY.  I'm going to zone B in April to push my contract out to 2013.    I guess the good news is that I'll get over $30k (before taxes) for basically extending for 15 months.

That should work out to a nice $1500 /month bonus while you are up there.  From what I have heard coming out of NY, it may not be worth it.  Good Luck!

[goobs22xx]

If the Navy is trying to boost the number of instructors at P-type, then this would make sense.  Zone B is still high enough that it may snag some people to continue on, but its probably not as effective to try and bring zone C sailors in for P-type duty.  The immediate needs for P-type staff may be driving this big jump in SRB multiple.

Just my guess.

Your theory makes sense, and the manning at Prototype has been a hot issue as of late.

It's not because of the issues we're having now, it's because in the next 2 years they plan on increasing the number of students coming through by 25% of what "typical" values are (They are currently at 120% of "normal", and this will mean that the "normal" class size of 1001 will be 145% of what "normal" is now. Sorry, I'm sure this doesn't make sense, but I'm trying...). I got to be a part of the "round table bitch fest" of why this isn't going to work with the program in it's current form. I would like to think that this site's ideas were represented well by one of my friends and myself. A lot of the ideas they put on their paper were ideas originally mentioned here, thought I doubt anyone genuinely cares.

You know that there is no one with a clue when Washington determined that the limiting factor of how many students we can **** through is based on our "Offcrew facilities". #####.....








**** modified for language.
##### modified for content.

[Pirate Bob]

Doesn't mean too much if they don't raise the cap, if you ask me (which, I'm pretty sure, they didn't).

[Wirebiter]

Doesn't mean too much if they don't raise the cap, if you ask me (which, I'm pretty sure, they didn't).

Good point.  They may be betting that most of the people taking this offer won't be thinking about the cap, much less going back to sea.  It may turn out that they raise the cap to $300,000 or something.  Who knows.

If you could max out with just a 24 month extension, and then go to shore duty and knock out your Bachelor's degree, you would be in a very good position.  Just can't go waste your SRB on hookers and blow, thats all.

[HydroDave63]

Good point.  They may be betting that most of the people taking this offer won't be thinking about the cap, much less going back to sea.  It may turn out that they raise the cap to $300,000 or something.  Who knows.

Considering what OMB numbers are looking like for Federal revenues FY2010, cost overruns in the DDG-1000 and CVN-78 programs, I would not be surprised to see some beancounter convince Washington to lower SRBs. Sounds goofy, but then again a 4-star admiral moved NORAD out of Cheyenne Mountain to some cheesy office buildings to save a few million bucks....

[93-383]

Considering what OMB numbers are looking like for Federal revenues FY2010, cost overruns in the DDG-1000 and CVN-78 programs, I would not be surprised to see some beancounter convince Washington to lower SRBs. Sounds goofy, but then again a 4-star admiral moved NORAD out of Cheyenne Mountain to some cheesy office buildings to save a few million bucks....

If you look at the  rest of the SRB numbers (other ratings) nukes are almost the only ones that went up and everyone Else went down (few exceptions). The DOD is already scrubbing budget money elsewhere (redution in manning, raising the cost of Tricare for retired, reduced maintenance budgets) and as for DDG-1000 CVN-78 and LCS I expect all of them will be canceled or delayed under this administration.

[Gamecock]

.... and as for DDG-1000 CVN-78 and LCS I expect all of them will be canceled or delayed under this administration.

What do you base this ridiculous statement on?  We are going to build ships in an effort to get to a 313 ship navy.

[93-383]

What do you base this ridiculous statement on?  We are going to build ships in an effort to get to a 313 ship navy.

That was the plan under the Bush administration. Do you seriously think the current administration is going to invest anything into DOD.

[HydroDave63]

That was the plan under the Bush administration. Do you seriously think the current administration is going to invest anything into DOD.

Gotta concur with 93-383 here. I just hope LPD-17 program stays as LRIP, as that it will make a mighty fine platform for a large X-band dome and numerous KEIs in vertical launch modules.

[Cycoticpenguin]

May I ask what you gentlemen and ladies would do to increase retention?

Would 120k help retention?

[formerET1Han]

I concur with the lifetime cap. However, quality of life is the reason I left behind the $90K bonus, which only entailed shore duty. Every last sub ET is undervalued. There is no easy way to fix this problem...more nukes on board just means more hot racking...that doesn't help. One day, maybe they can come up with a blue/gold crew for fast attacks...that might help. But 5 years at sea for 3 years shore duty, of which the sea duty is 70% optempo and shore duty may very well entail riding a boat...no thanks.

Also, if money was to work, it wouldn't be in bonuses. I want to see it in my base pay. Let me know what happens if every last nuke was a CWO. They blow so much smoke up our butts about how hard the school is and that it's the equivalent of almost a degree...prove it. Make them all officers...that would make the retirement worth more, every day worth more...

But money won't work...how many awards do you think every former and current nuke have at nukeworker? How many coners and whatever the surface fleet has would it take to match those awards? Recognize your people and pay them what they're worth...until big navy understands that the navy nuke community will continue to shrink...civilian plants need people and are willing to pay for it...starting pay for a fully qualified NLO is what, $80K+ year? And it requires way less theory knowledge and schooling...that's just quals...I wonder what the Navy will do with no nuclear vessels...?

[Nuke2EAF]

I have not paid much attention to these numbers lately, but they are completely mind boggling.  Yet, I see comments that are very similar to what I heard when SRB levels were 3.0 with a max of 45K.  Throwing money at retention really doesn't fix anything.  I say "fix" with a clenched jaw, especially  when I read a suggestion that fast boats should go 2 crew or that more people on a fast boat would help, I think I just threw up in my mouth!  What makes life on a boat good or bad, it's not Big Navy, it's the big head staring back at the sailor in the mirror.  Blue shirts that have abdicated all that could be in their domain to the goat locker.  The chiefs in the locker having been a part of that movement giving up their deity status to the staterooms.  Now everything becomes a real life XO says story.  The work on a submarine has a finite number of people to do a finite number of jobs.  Those jobs have to be done, I don't care if the sailors on board are anointed as petty officers, warrant officers, or POPE's, the jobs still need to be done by the people on board.  What it takes is one person to pull one more guy up by his boots and decide "this will be the best stores load we can do" or "this will be the best prepared watch section for ORSE" or "this will be the best eng dep training we can prepare" or whatever.  The team, the team..the success of your tour will be decided by the team.  It takes sailors with the guts to stand up and do what it takes to create that team.

[formerET1Han]

The work on a submarine has a finite number of people to do a finite number of jobs.  Those jobs have to be done, I don't care if the sailors on board are anointed as petty officers, warrant officers, or POPE's, the jobs still need to be done by the people on board.

I couldn't agree more. I come to a different conclusion though. You say that like there are enough people to do the work; there aren't. I can't count the number of hours of sleep I lost because the training "needs to be done." On-coming divisional, departmental, supervisor training...to say nothing of maintenance. I don't care how motivated you make everyone else, when there are 3 people in your division and 7 people's worth of work, the goat locker nor the CO can change how tired you're going to be. You're right, the work has to be done, and it gets there, albeit through some dangerous super-tired decision making. What I'm saying is that when people come into port, they shouldn't have to suffer more. Get another crew out there...something, anything...and let the guys who are just dying go home, get an equalizing charge at the bar, see the family, something.

[Khak-Hater]

May I ask what you gentlemen and ladies would do to increase retention?  Would 120k help retention?

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Bonuses are like tips, they're temporary and unreliable.  If you want to show a position some respect, then increase the BASE PAY (e.g., establish a separate nuke pay structure).  Doing something that you wouldn't otherwise do for the promise of a bonus always smells a little like prostitution.

For me, it was never about the money or even the sacrifice of going to sea.  Going to sea to keep your country safe is an honor that I enjoyed.  Duty days in port when there was no work that needed to be done was BS.  The bad management sucked.  That was it, having your time wasted at the whim of anyone who happened to wear a higher rank than you.  That's the crux of the quality of life issue.

If you want to fix that problem, then you start paying sailors an hourly rate.  Not for the good of the sailors, but for development of the managers.  If you want to teach managers to manage, then make them pay for people's time.  That would be a start.

But the number one deal breaker is clearly having to deal with the fact that you can't get to or leave your job without the potential of being harassed by any individual of any higher rank anywhere on the ship (e.g., airdale khaks) just because they don't like the way you look.  It's the fact that a CWO4 CAN NOT be wrong or even suggested to tone it down when he's screaming the foulest of obscenities at an E-4 [who dared to wear a tank top off the ship] right in front (i.e., < 10') of a crowd of shocked and cringing women and children who came to greet their loved ones off the ship after 120 days at sea [that one cost me two days of liberty in Rio De Janeiro - not the dude in the tank top, but the dude who suggested that the CWO4 might tone it down].  I digress.  

No SRBs will fix any of these problems.  Golden handcuff programs (e.g., if you stay for a certain duration we'll give you this amount of cash after the fact) are incentives.  SRBs are indentured servitude, and except for the promise of freedom at some point, they're selling yourself into slavery.  How much money would you sell yourself for?  It's a "yes" or "no" question.  The size of the SRB is just quibbling over price.  

mgm

[JustinHEMI05]

Very well said.

Justin