Officer Re-up bonuses

[GANuke]

Hey everyone,

I have tried to search for this on several sites and on google, but can't find any specific information (maybe because it's not set in stone or is case by case?).  I can find plenty of information about sign on bonuses, but only very general information about re-up bonuses, especially for officers.  Does anyone have specific information about these bonuses for sub nuke officers (or surface, for others' benefit)  Thanks!

[Gamecock]

Its $30K/YR after you are qualified as a nuclear engineer and have completed your minimum service requirement.

[GANuke]

Thanks!  Does that mean 30k for each extra year that you initially commit to or is it a year by year thing? (i.e. at the end of your obligation, do you commit for 5 or 6 more years and get 30k x 5 or 6 years or do you just commit to one more year and get 30k every time you do that?)

[Gamecock]

Thanks!  Does that mean 30k for each extra year that you initially commit to or is it a year by year thing? (i.e. at the end of your obligation, do you commit for 5 or 6 more years and get 30k x 5 or 6 years or do you just commit to one more year and get 30k every time you do that?)

Yes, you have to sign a contract to remain on active duty to get the maximum amount.  There is also an annual bonus given to a nuclear trained officer who meets the requirements I mentioned above that does not sign a contract, but it is significantly less.  


Contract shown below


         Date

From:  Name, USN, XXX-XX-1234/DESIG  (last 4 of SSN only)
To:    Commander, Navy Personnel Command (PERS-42)   
Via:   Commanding Officer, USS X

Subj:  REQUEST FOR NUCLEAR OFFICER CONTINUATION PAY 
   
Ref:   (a) OPNAVINST 7220.11B 
       (b) 37 United States Code 312 
   
1. I have read and understand the provisions of reference (a) including all provisions relating to termination of payments to be made under this agreement and the circumstances under which recoupment by the government of sums paid may be required, to which I agree. I hereby apply for the special pay authorized by reference (b). 
   
2. Contingent upon acceptance of my application for this special pay, I agree not to tender a resignation for a period of 3 (or 4 or 5) years beyond my existing service obligation, or for a period of 3 (or 4 or 5) years beyond the date of acceptance of this request, whichever is later. I understand that, upon acceptance, this application is binding, and that thereupon I shall be eligible to receive $30,000 per year of this agreement in special pay, as described in reference (a).
   
3. I hereby elect payment in 3 (or 4 or 5) equal installments.

4. For questions regarding this contract, I can be contacted at XXX-XXX-XXXX or (email address). 




               <signed>

[Yaeger]

I love posts like these. People outside of the Navy see them and their eyes turn into big dollar signs.

There's a good reason they offer this amount, they can't keep the trained officers they need without additional incentives.

That means a couple things:

1) The job friggen sucks. You work weekends, overtime almost everyday, at sea you never get days off. There's no law saying they can't work you 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for months on end.

2) Civilian life is preferred. Who wouldn't want to be there for the birth of their child, graduations, not have to be deployed for >6 months away from friends and family.

3) It might look like a lot of money, but remember a cubic ton of it gets taxed away and the rest you'll have to decide whether not having a personal life is work the extra pay.

My advice: don't worry about money if you plan to become a nuke officer. You can support yourself and your family, but if your primary goal is making excellent money you're making a mistake joining the military.

[MMM]

To counter Yaeger. It's not all bad, although still not your best choice for making lots of money.

The navy is a great stepping stone and a way to get experience. If you want to get into nuclear power, this will get you experience to at least get your foot in the door.

You do get 30 days of leave every year. Granted about 1/3-1/2 of those you would normally have off. Also good luck taking that much leave on a ship. On shore, it's not so tough. You also get 10 days paternity (free) leave (for new dads) within a year of having a child, I think moms get 6 weeks convalesent (also free) leave followed by 18 months TAD to some admin type job, not on a ship. If you plan ahead, you can be there for the birth of your child. I got paternity leave during PORSE after a shipyard availability.

[spekkio]

Yaeger hit the nail on the head: don't just consider the money.

Officer tours are a lot of work, and if your CoC likes making people miserable for the sake of it, then they can be miserable work. ENG tours are grueling regardless of who you work for, which is why they give the spot promotion.

You also have to factor in that most officers coming out of their JO tours can find 6-figure incomes elsewhere without having to go to sea away from their families. The average non-prior JO is going to be in his mid-upper 20's coming out of his tour, which is right around family starting age for a lot of people.

As for the 30 days of leave, there's an asterisk to that. When you take a week vacation in civvy land, you use 5 days and get 9 days off if you leave on friday afternoon and return to work on Monday. If you do that in the Navy, you actually get charged 9 days of leave. The math gets better if you take more time off, but unless you're on shore duty you won't be able to take 3 weeks of leave. I've seen people burn 3 days of leave just to guarantee a weekend off.

Taking periodic 1 week leave periods like that will lead you to really only having ~50% of the leave you actually have if you compare it to civilian vacation days. You also get no sick days, although you can ask for special liberty or to be sent home if you are sick (you better be damn near passed out if you do, though).

On top of that, if you're on a SSN it's nearly impossible to schedule leave ahead of time, which means paying out the ass for plane tickets and jumping through hoops for hotel rooms if you get to take leave and want to travel. And unless it's an emergency or really special event, you can't take leave during at-sea periods.

Granted, if you're working a civvy job making 6 figures, you're probably not going to be expendable enough to take frequent 2 week vacations. So it's not that different. But still, it's something to be aware of.

[GANuke]

Thank you all for your comments.  I don't want anyone to think that I am getting in this for the money because, from what I have heard and read, anyone who gets in this for the money probably isn't going to make it.  It's just something that I had read conflicting things about and wanted to clear up.  I just like to have all the facts before I get into something   Thanks again!

[co60slr]

Granted, if you're working a civvy job making 6 figures, you're probably not going to be expendable enough to take frequent 2 week vacations. So it's not that different. But still, it's something to be aware of.

It's completely different.  The wise companies are fully aware of the consequences of burning their people out:  a never-ending death spiral of rehiring managers.  Some companies like to burn their managers out [one particular company with huge sign-on bonuses right now omitted here], which is exactly like an Engineer's tour.

I know several senior managers (well over 100K) that don't lose any vacations days.   However, do they work long hours some days when there are issues?  Of course.   Do people take vacation time during critical evolutions?  Absolutely not.  With proper planning, one can enjoy a very lucrative and very rewarding post-Naval nuclear career.  However, regardless of your employer...military or civilian, nuclear power is a demanding career.     

Oh yeah...with no deployment that causes you to miss two semesters of your children's grade school year.   

Perhaps this debate could further be broken down into $/hour.  How much do you make per hour during a 6-month deployment (e.g., 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, 24-30 week deployment)?

Bottom line:  a bonus structure is a tool used on people.  If they didn't HAVE to pay you the money, they wouldn't.  So you always have to ask yourself:  why am I getting this "free money"?   Because nothing in life is free.

And yes GANnuke, it is about the money.  BUT...it's also about having fun!   Find a job where you're comfortable with the income and having fun going to work and you're living the American Dream.   If you're making $150/yr and your children/wife hate you, and you hate your boss...then you'd better reconsider your "dream job".  Don't be the 65 year old stressed out nuke who's divorced, his kids hate him, and when he finally retires, he dies within 6 months of that long overdue heart attack.   I've seen it...it's not a pretty sight.

Co58

[NukeLDO]

Co58

Signed to indicate decay? 

[Gamecock]

 If you're making $150/yr and your children/wife hate you, and you hate your boss...then you'd better reconsider your "dream job".  Don't be the 65 year old stressed out nuke who's divorced, his kids hate him, and when he finally retires, he dies within 6 months of that long overdue heart attack.   I've seen it...it's not a pretty sight.

Co58

Hopefully, you'll make more then $150/yr in any job you do

Otherwise, that's some of the best advice you'll get around here.

Cheers,
GC

[co60slr]

Signed to indicate decay?  

No...why short-lived, of course!  (A reference to my patience level at a given moment) ;-)

(Sniff, sniff)....I didn't think anyone would notice.   :-)

[NukeLDO]

No...why short-lived, of course!  (A reference to my patience level at a given moment) ;-)

(Sniff, sniff)....I didn't think anyone would notice.   :-)

Devil in the details and all....

[co60slr]

Devil in the details and all....

Yeah...been there, done that.   Wait...still do that.   

[spekkio]

It's completely different.  The wise companies are fully aware of the consequences of burning their people out:  a never-ending death spiral of rehiring managers.  Some companies like to burn their managers out [one particular company with huge sign-on bonuses right now omitted here], which is exactly like an Engineer's tour.

I know several senior managers (well over 100K) that don't lose any vacations days.   However, do they work long hours some days when there are issues?  Of course.   Do people take vacation time during critical evolutions?  Absolutely not.  With proper planning, one can enjoy a very lucrative and very rewarding post-Naval nuclear career.  However, regardless of your employer...military or civilian, nuclear power is a demanding career.      

Oh yeah...with no deployment that causes you to miss two semesters of your children's grade school year.    

Perhaps this debate could further be broken down into $/hour.  How much do you make per hour during a 6-month deployment (e.g., 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, 24-30 week deployment)?

Bottom line:  a bonus structure is a tool used on people.  If they didn't HAVE to pay you the money, they wouldn't.  So you always have to ask yourself:  why am I getting this "free money"?   Because nothing in life is free.

And yes GANnuke, it is about the money.  BUT...it's also about having fun!   Find a job where you're comfortable with the income and having fun going to work and you're living the American Dream.   If you're making $150/yr and your children/wife hate you, and you hate your boss...then you'd better reconsider your "dream job".  Don't be the 65 year old stressed out nuke who's divorced, his kids hate him, and when he finally retires, he dies within 6 months of that long overdue heart attack.   I've seen it...it's not a pretty sight.

Co58

I realize it depends on a lot of factors, but what I said is true.

My mother is a psychologist who owns her own practice. She works over 80 hours a week when you account for the paperwork she has to do while not seeing patients. She works 7 days a week. If she doesn't see patients on a given day, she doesn't get paid. In other words, she has 0 vacation days. She has 0 sick days. If she takes too much time off, she loses her patients. She makes good money, but the perception that you're going to make $150k by working a 35 hour work week is false in a lot of cases.

Any small business owner is in a similar situation, particularly when starting out. There is a huge misconception in America, on the whole, that people who own businesses sit back and do nothing while everyone makes all the money for them. That's not true in the vast majority of cases. Small business owners have to work hard because their profit margin isn't large enough to make a lucrative salary after hiring well qualified, capable managers to do the work for them.

You got me on deployments, though, and that's the big X-factor. Most private companies are not going to make you go overseas, away from your family for 6-12 months with little to no contact with them. Oh, and this schedule gets changed like 4x before you actually go underway, leaving your loved ones frustrated from the unknown and seemingly random schedule. I 'know' my schedule out to next year, but the chances of us actually executing it are probably in the single digits of percentage. Sometimes it's because something on your boat breaks, sometimes it's because something on another boat breaks. Sometimes a Sailor will do something incredibly stupid, causing long and painful corrective actions.

As final food for thought, ask any EDMC if they'd take the money and 'promotion' to be an Engineer. I think the response you'd typically get is somewhere between '[expletive] no' and 'you'd have to fix the job.'

So yea, a bonus is used like a carrot on a stick. It doesn't really actually fix the reason why so many JO's decide to leave the Navy, it just tries to entice people to stay for the wrong reason.