Suggestions for a first year college student

[MLD Woody]

    First of all I am new to these forums and I thought I would introduce my self. My name is Mitchell and I am a first year engineering student at the University of Michigan. Now I've always been intrested in Nuclear Engineering. My dad really got my started and it just seems a lot more interesting than a lot of other forms of engineering. Now I am not 100% sold on it and am looking to learn more about it. The thing is I've got a lot of credit coming in from High School already so I basically need to "declare" by the end of the year, or at least decide on a course path to take. My only concerns is there is so much out there and I really don't want to take a class that ends up being a waste of my time, because I plan on graduating early. So I have a few basic questions.
   
 From reports I've been reading and what I would just think is common sense I would think the Nuclear Power industry should be reemerging pretty soon. I'm hoping this will increase the demand for nuclear engineers. What are some jobs a nuclear engineer could get in the power production industry. I don't really want to be behind a desk all day, I'd like some more hands on stuff if possible.
   
Also is this a career field where a Masters is pretty much needed for entry, or would a B.S.E. suffice? I am looking right now at getting a B.S.E. in Nuclear Engineering and a minor in Electrical Engineering and a minor in Mathematics, because a lot of courses overlap.

[MLD Woody]

I also have a thing for business, but not enough to make it my sole career (I need math and science). Are there ways for a Nuclear Engineer to enter into the more business side of things but still retain the science side?

[Roll Tide]

Maybe I missed something here, but isn't Nuclear Engineering much closer to Mechanical Engineering? If I were your dad, I would recommend working towards / declaring for Nuclear Engineering. You should have a better idea of how the commercial nuclear business is going after working a couple of internships over summers and seeing how the new plants are progressing. If everything is great for Nuclear Engineering, make no changes.

If the nuclear construction has run off the rails before your Senior year, change your major to Mechanical (or Electrical, if you are almost there).

You will need a lot of courses in Math to get any of these degrees; has anyone ever told you it would help to call it a minor? Just wondering aloud...

Anyway, that is pretty close to the guidance I have been giving my own son.
Disclaimer: I am not and never will be a Nuclear Engineer. But the ones that work for me are great people!

[Roll Tide]

I also have a thing for business, but not enough to make it my sole career (I need math and science). Are there ways for a Nuclear Engineer to enter into the more business side of things but still retain the science side?

Major utilities like to hire useful, productive engineers. Then they convince them to get an MBA (in addition to their normal workload) or project manager certification, so they can become more business-oriented.
Of course, Department Heads and higher mention the need for more insight into the business side of things, so that may help with eventual career progression.

[co60slr]

My dad really got my started and it just seems a lot more interesting than a lot of other forms of engineering.
   
From reports I've been reading and what I would just think is common sense I would think the Nuclear Power industry should be reemerging pretty soon. I'm hoping this will increase the demand for nuclear engineers.

What are some jobs a nuclear engineer could get in the power production industry. I don't really want to be behind a desk all day, I'd like some more hands on stuff if possible.
   
Also is this a career field where a Masters is pretty much needed for entry, or would a B.S.E. suffice? I am looking right now at getting a B.S.E. in Nuclear Engineering and a minor in Electrical Engineering and a minor in Mathematics, because a lot of courses overlap.

Don't do something because someone else pushed you.  Now that you're in the academic arena, you have access to other engineering students/professors to see which discipline most interests you...AFTER college.  This isn't about what book you like studying, it's about where do you see yourself DOING in 5 years.

I don't see what a "minor" in anything would do.  If you enjoy math and your extra classes get you an extra stamp on your diploma, then do the math for what you enjoy, not the stamp.

You don't need M.S. degrees for entry level.  However, it doesn't hurt.  Most people (I think?) jump into the workforce and then use an employer's tuition assistance program for their Masters.   Yes, very common to add a MBA or Engineering Management (which contains business, accounting courses) to your resume.   

Yes, people with technical/engineering degrees run technical organizations.  Yes, they have to have business academics, but not all Nuclear Plant Managers have MBAs.   Your performance (not degree collection) is what moves you up the ladder.

As a nuclear engineer, I don't know where you'd work except behind a desk.  A tour in Operations affords you jobs "in the field".  Also, project management (e.g., nuclear engineering working on AP1000 in China) affords field work.  In any event the nuclear industry IS emerging right now.   These AP1000 plants under construction have blueprints dates YEARS before they dig a hole in the ground. 

A more diverse undergrad degree (IMHO) is a Mechanical or Electrical Engineering.  A BSNE locks you into nuclear, where a BSME/BSEE gives you access to nuclear...and the rest of the world.  You could always add on a MSNE and an MBA to round out a nuclear career.   If you're 100% dedicated towards nuclear...go for it.  YOU CAN'T LOSE WITH A FULL ENGINEERING DEGREE!   Also, you didn't mention a Professional Engineering (PE) License.

Things to think about.  What's your GPA?  I'm not a Navy Recruiter, but you get some "hands on" there as well.  Plenty of guys/gals do a 5 year tour and then jump into the civilian job market...a bit older, wiser, and experienced.  Makes for a good Resume.

Pretend you're graduating in 6 months.  Start your job search.  Where can you work as a BSNE?  Who's hiring?  What location?   Then, search for BSME positions...same thing.  Think about what you'd like to do TODAY assuming you had that particular degree.  Then, spend the next 3 years and go get it. 

Good luck...

[MLD Woody]

Thanks for the input.

For the record I'm not being "pushed" into Nuclear by my dad by any means, he's just the one who introduced me to it.

Also I just mentioned the Minors in EE and Math because I have a lot of free time thanks ot coming into school with 26 credits. So even if I spread my whole course load over 7 semesters instead of 8, I'll have some extra time. And I enjoy math and I'll probably enjoy EE, so I figured what the hell.

I haven't even completed my first semester of college so I do not know what my GPA is.

Will an employer care if I graduate early of not? One of the main reasons I am looking to get out early is becaue Michigan is 50k out of state, so I don't think stayin an extra year or semster is worth it, cuz whatever I do would have a 25k or 50k price tag.

And roll tide what did you mean by Nuclear Engineering being much closer to ME? If that is in response to the EE minor, I just through that in there because it is one of the recomended extra minors I could do becuase a lot overlaps.

[cincinnatinuke]

ME and NE are pretty closely related.

For example, at the University of Cincinnati the undergrad NE program went away, however they offered a 5 year BSME with a MSNE option. 

You will find overlap with all the physical sciences, math, and engineering programs.  Co60 is right, find out what you want to do not what you like to learn.  Many times they arent the same and its best to find out now.

[tr]

Nuclear and mechanical engineering are pretty closely related, as a large portion of each has to do with heat transfer and thermodynamics.  Nuclear and electrical are much less related to each other.  I'm a nuclear engineer, and of every nuke I know with a Professional Engineer's license they took either the nuclear or mechanical Professional Engineer's test, no one took the electrical test.  Given that U of M has a nuclear program, I suggest you contact some of the professors with your questions.

Employers will generally not care when you graduate.  Not graduating in spring may cause some issues with finding a job, since at least in my day (which was a long time ago) company on-campus college recruitment activities were geared toward a spring graduation.  Your college placement office is a good source for current information.  They can also tell you what the current job market is looking like for ME versus NE.

[MLD Woody]

what is a Professional Engineers License?

and Michigan is ranked number one in the country for NE, so it might be worth it to take advantage of that.

Basically I'm just a little worried about doing NE and then kinda getting stuck and not having enough opportunities because I am not an ME.

I will be talking to the advising head in a week or so and he's giving me a tour of the facilities.

[Fermi2]

BS please show a reference with viable statistics supporting Michigan being #1 in the country for NE.
It's simply not true. There are no such rankings.

ALSO LEARN TO CAPITALIZE!!! NEVER START A SENTENCE WITH THE WORD BASICALLY!!!

If you want to be a nuke start acting like a nuke and stop asking the same question over and over and over! There is a neat thing known as a search function. Show some work ethic and USE IT!

[co60slr]

BS please show a reference with viable statistics supporting Michigan being #1 in the country for NE.
It's simply not true. There are no such rankings.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/nuclear-engineering

[co60slr]

what is a Professional Engineers License?

and Michigan is ranked number one in the country for NE, so it might be worth it to take advantage of that.

Basically I'm just a little worried about doing NE and then kinda getting stuck and not having enough opportunities because I am not an ME.

PE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Engineering_exam
http://www.michigan.gov/dleg/0,1607,7-154-35299_35414_35472-114639--,00.html

Your college ranking doesn't translate to your ranking.   Find out where your Class of 2010 went, where 2011 is applying to, etc.

You should be concerned.


Good luck.

[Fermi2]

I'll submit to you I can find websites that list other Universities as higher rated. The point is there's no proof whatsoever that Michigan is number 1 in that subject or degree. They're no better and no worse than any other university offering a similar degree.

Example: http://www.infozee.com/channels/ms/usa/nuclear-engineering-rankings.htm

[MLD Woody]

We are on an internet forum, but I guess my grammar could have been better. It was also about 2 in the morning for me, so I really didn't care. Also, I know I can search for what a Professional Engineering license iis, but I thought I'd ask. Finally, I was just adding that ranking in there for the hell of it. They seem pretty proud here to have the top program and people usually respect the usnews rankings. If Michigan is a top NE program I don't think I can go wrong with it. Again, I was just worried about not getting as many opportunities as someone with an ME degree.

[Nuclear Renaissance]

I'll submit to you I can find websites that list other Universities as higher rated. The point is there's no proof whatsoever that Michigan is number 1 in that subject or degree. They're no better and no worse than any other university offering a similar degree.

Example: http://www.infozee.com/channels/ms/usa/nuclear-engineering-rankings.htm

Congratulations, you found old data.

Fact is the strength of the program DOES matter, since the research opportunities and the faculty it draws are tied to it. A large component of any degree is what the student personally makes of it, but if you can do it in a program with prestige, it matters.

[Pman52]

Again, I was just worried about not getting as many opportunities as someone with an ME degree.

Go with the Mechanical Engineering degree.  It gives you the opportunity to choose a position in a larger scope of the nuclear industry.  Plus if you decide to change careers later in life you're not stuck in nuclear.  I wouldn't over think the situation and no one, not even yourself can predict your future.  Just prepare yourself well and let it all take it's course.  Good luck and enjoy your college experience.  Its some of the best and worst years of your life.  

[Bradtv]

Again, I was just worried about not getting as many opportunities as someone with an ME degree.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#projections_data

When there are ~14 times more employed mechanical engineers than there are nuclear engineers, you can assume the mechanical engineers have more opportunities... even within the nuclear industry.  The expected growth however is higher among nuclear engineers.

 

[Gamecock]

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/nuclear-engineering

Best Engineering Schools Specialty Rankings: Nuclear
Ranked in 2010
 1 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI 4.8
2 University of Wisconsin--Madison Madison, WI 4.5
3 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA 4.4

MIT is #3???

Must be the same kind of voodoo magic used by the BCS to determine this ranking!!!

[MLD Woody]

haha, F the BCS. I don't know why we are 1 either, but I'll roll with it.

Man, coming in with credits is acting as a blessing and a curse for me...

[Rich French]

Anyone that has worked the engineering side of the nuclear field knows Michigan has been a top ranked Nuclear Engineering schools for the past 20 years.  Anyone that shows surprise at this is just indicating their lack of nuclear engineering experience...as they have none and should let experienced people reply to a serious question.
Mechanical vs Nuclear.
This is an old question that is relevant to all speciality degrees vs the base degrees.  The speciality degrees being Paper, petroleum, nuclear, environmental, automotive, mining, biomechanical, Aerospace, naval architecture etc. vs ME, EE, CE, ChemE.
The advantages of the "base" degrees have already been mentioned as they give you great flexibility to go into many different fields.  ME/EE could go into paper, aerospace, petroleum quite easily for a given market with opportunities.  These "speciality" degrees will give you opportunities in highly cyclical jobs tied to factors that are rather unpredictable.  The opportunities you think you will have might change completely in the 4 years.  Laws, politics, public preception, commodity prices, foreign competition and other factors will directly impact job prospects when you graduate, good or bad.

So, go with the "base" degrees right?
Not necessarily.  The ME dept at Michigan will graduate 200-250M ME's.  The NE department will graduate 30 NE's.  Areva/GE/Westinghouse/Others that come to campus looking for engineers for their nuclear programs will give priority to the NE's.  If they can't fill with NE's, the will give the ME/EE of the world a shot.  I would bet Michigan gets 100% placement for their NE's while the ME's in a tough economy could be as low as 50-70%. 
Plus you will get the small school type of atmosphere with such a small class.

Now, what do you want to do?  
Look at the senior classes, the course descriptions, sit in on an upperlevel class to see if you even like it.  What gets you excited?  Michigan Engineering is very competitive and you better be really want to be an engineer.  Are you ready to work 3x as hard as the LS&A/Business people?  Michigan has a significant number of foreigner and out of state students to compete against for grades.  It is not easy. 
So, it sounds like you haven't started school yet and maybe you are accepted.  You can apply directly to college of engineering ( a separate application process, You may have to give your top three choices) or take your basic engineering courses in LS&A and apply at your freshman/sophomore year.  Your first goal is to do well  or you will not have to worry about ME/NE.  Then, if you really want to be pursue engineering and are ready for the hell you will be enduring, look at the NE courses you will take vs ME (or any other majors, keep an open mind).  Popular fields will be more competitive.  Naval Architecture will be less competitive then say biomechanics. 

In nuclear, there are a lot of procedures, quality checks, detailed processes...IE paper work.  Even working at a Construction Company, you will have to endure significant more compliance checks then working at a fossil plant.  No way around it. 
This should be template to help you get started.  Any more questions, email me directly so we don't have to deal with the riff raff. 
UM BSME 90

[HydroDave63]

Anyone that has worked the engineering side of the nuclear field knows Michigan has been a top ranked Nuclear Engineering schools for the past 20 years.  Anyone that shows surprise at this is just indicating their lack of nuclear engineering experience...as they have none and should let experienced people reply to a serious question.


This should be template to help you get started.  Any more questions, email me directly so we don't have to deal with the riff raff. 
UM BSME 90

So...... you're calling Broadzilla a nub?

[Rich French]

So...... you're calling Broadzilla a nub?


Hey, trying to stir it up, Hd?

No, nubs know they are nubs, typically. So, knowing they know nothing, is something.
Others; don't know, and don't know that they don't know.  If they knew that they don't know, that would be something. 

[MLD Woody]

Thank you Rich for the very detailed answer, I really appreciate it.

I am in my first semester at Michigan, and its great. I also no for sure I want to be an engineer. Problem solving, math, science, etc., that's all me. Its also funny you mention international competition as my roommate is originally from Korea, and has lived in Ethiopia the last 7 years, then came to the US to go to Michigan. And you know how he picked Michigan? He went online, searched engineering rankings, and saw Michigan. So ranking do matter more then people think sometimes.

I will be taking a tour of the facilities for NE here with an advisor in the upcoming days and I'm hoping looking around and talking to him will give me a better idea.

Like I said, I feel like I would really enjoy nuclear, I just have that fear of not having as many opportunities or options as others. But, like you said an ME would have more options, but also more competition. And looking aorund, in response to one of my other questions, it seems, in regards to the business aspect, you acquire that degree while with a company. So then I just have to decide if I should get a Masters or not.

That's also the one downside of having credits coming into college, you have to decide on where to declare earlier. I know this all sounds kinda ridiculous becuase its so far away, but I'm the kinda person that likes to have things planned out for the most part.

Thanks again though for the sound answer. Did you attend Michigan by chance?

[Fermi2]

There is no such thing as a Number 1 School. It's ALL subjective. As I said any link that says so, I can find a link that says otherwise. As Rocky implied, no way is Michigan above MIT in anything.

And for the snowflake who keeps asking the same thing over and over: So at 2AM if you're called for advice by one of your Operations Betters are you going to give less than adequate advice because it's 2AM and you don't care?

[MLD Woody]

There is no such thing as a Number 1 School. It's ALL subjective. As I said any link that says so, I can find a link that says otherwise. As Rocky implied, no way is Michigan above MIT in anything.

And for the snowflake who keeps asking the same thing over and over: So at 2AM if you're called for advice by one of your Operations Betters are you going to give less than adequate advice because it's 2AM and you don't care?

Well in that situation I have a job and I am responding to someone important, not a random guy over the internet on a school night. And I can give fine advice all day... but my spelling takes a hit after midnight