Nuclear MM getting out after 12 yrs looking for advice.

[jimbo0697]

I've been in the Navy 11yrs 6mths and am looking to transition to the civilian sector in Mar 2011. I have a newborn son that has definitely changed my desire to stay Navy.   I have terminal that will start in Jan and am currently looking for jobs.  I'm not filtering anything out as far as locations.   It seems as though everything moves a bit slower as far as the hiring process goes.  Just curious what kind of timeline is typical for hiring and what the job market is like.  I've been qualified Engineering Watch Supervisor / Engineering Duty Petty officer for 3 years now.  I will be done with the BS in nuclear engineering technology from TESC in Dec 2010.  I'm thinking things move a little slower in CIVFLT than in the Navy.  I'm excited about the transition but nervous about the time its taking to get things lined up.  I have been talking to several different recruiters who have hiring conferences set up that I'll be attending.  I figure regardless if I get a job offer it will get me some experience interviewing.  Is there anything I could be doing to make myself more marketable?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks for any advice.

[tselby]

start in this thread there are a lot in your shoes, continue to ask,

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,25944.0.html

one thing to remember is the first thing a prospective employer see's is your resume, it had better be top notch. Spelling, Grammar, punctuation, attention to detail

this is the getting in thread you may want to relocate to the getting out thread


PS btw 20yr MMC here, thank you for your service

[hamsamich]

do up your resume really well.  explain what you did so a civilian AND a military person can read it.  try to make true personal contact with any job you are moderately interested in.  it takes time but pays dividends.  a great buffer for your situation is your unemployment situation.  if you can't get a job right away you can file in the state of mass. and make over 600 bucks a week while you are looking for a job.  use any connection you can to get your foot in the door ANYWHERE, then use that job as a springboard to a job you truly want.  I heard vogtle is hiring for new plants to be built.  try there.  you should be able to find a job fairly quickly if you are willing to go anywhere.  so don't bite at the first thing unless you are fairly sure about it.  try to get some interviews under your belt no matter where they are.  interviewing experience will help you with your next interview, even if you don't really want the job.  if you have someone to look after your son and are willing to travel, a great way to get a feel for the commercial industry and get some commercial experience under ur belt is to try contracting.  good luck.

[jimbo0697]

Thanks again.  A lot of good information here and it is much appreciated.  Although I have started the search already, I will continue using the information provided.

[tselby]

do up your resume really well.  explain what you did so a civilian AND a military person can read it.  try to make true personal contact with any job you are moderately interested in.  it takes time but pays dividends.  a great buffer for your situation is your unemployment situation.  if you can't get a job right away you can file in the state of mass. and make over 600 bucks a week while you are looking for a job.  use any connection you can to get your foot in the door ANYWHERE, then use that job as a springboard to a job you truly want.  I heard vogtle is hiring for new plants to be built.  try there.  you should be able to find a job fairly quickly if you are willing to go anywhere.  so don't bite at the first thing unless you are fairly sure about it.  try to get some interviews under your belt no matter where they are.  interviewing experience will help you with your next interview, even if you don't really want the job.  if you have someone to look after your son and are willing to travel, a great way to get a feel for the commercial industry and get some commercial experience under ur belt is to try contracting.  good luck.

this is good info, remember when writing your resume use words a civilian will understand. Some civilian employers will not understand terms often used in the military. (I.E. instead of using Machinery Division Chief Petty Officer, something more appropriate might be Machinery Division Director, Manager, Supervisor, leader)

Try a cover letter, although it can be a 2 edge sword, it gives you another opportunity to detail your accomplishments. I have used cover letters on all my applications and have found them useful, for the most part a resume will stay the same and the little details can be changed and covered in a cover letter.

[DDMurray]

The TAP book and Knock 'em Dead series of books has great advice on resume and interview preparations.  48 days to The Work You Love Career is highly recommened by Dave Ramsey, though I have never read it.  Good Luck!

Oh, and don't get pissed, re-enlist!

[Neutron_Herder]

Depending on who your headhunter is, they have people who can be really helpful in grooming your resume, and making it all pretty.  Definitely use them, but not to the point where you're not looking yourself.

It's not too early, so start checking the websites of companies you are interested in at least a couple of times a week.  Go ahead and set up your personal account with them and get your resume uploaded.  A lot of times when you upload it the formatting will get messed up, so make sure you take the time to read through it and ensure it looks the way you want it to.

If they have any jobs fairs near you go if you can.  I met a few recruiters for utility companies by attending those.  They might not have anything open right now, but they'll probably have a decent idea of what's opening up in the next few months.  Plus, they'll already have your resume!

If you haven't been to TAP, make sure you go!  Not only for the job search stuff, there could be benefits that you are entitled to that you don't know about.  Probably not, to be honest... But you never know!

[JustinHEMI05]

While you are at it, google STAR interviewing technique. Look for MIT's take on it. That is the type of interview you will have trying to get into commercial nukes.

Start formulating answers to questions such as;

"Tell me about a time you disagreed with a manager, and how you handled it?"

"Tell me about a time you led a team, the challenges you had to overcome, and the results."

"Tell me about a time that you failed, and how you used what you learned from that failure to improve your performance."

Etc.

Good luck and keep up posted!

Welcome and thank you for your service!

[jimbo0697]

These post will be very helpful as I move forward with the interviews.  Thanks very much for the help.

[JustinHEMI05]

You are welcome! Be sure to keep us updated, and share your experiences with other folks going through the same thing!

[IRLFAN]

Start formulating answers to questions such as;

"Tell me about a time you disagreed with a manager, and how you handled it?"

"Tell me about a time you led a team, the challenges you had to overcome, and the results."

"Tell me about a time that you failed, and how you used what you learned from that failure to improve your performance."


Welcome and thank you for your service!

This is excellent advice. These questions are practically word for word what we were asking the last time we were interviewing.  To add to the advice, if asked what your short term goals are, don't answer what one prospect did, "to pay off my car".  It was an honest answer, but not a very good one.

Also, don't be discouraged if the job search takes a while.  Utilities are notoriously slow in hiring. 

Thanks again for your service.

[JustinHEMI05]

This is excellent advice. These questions are practically word for word what we were asking the last time we were interviewing.  To add to the advice, if asked what your short term goals are, don't answer what one prospect did, "to pay off my car".  It was an honest answer, but not a very good one.

Also, don't be discouraged if the job search takes a while.  Utilities are notoriously slow in hiring. 

Thanks again for your service.

Exactly. To add to this, you CANNOT walk into these types of interviews cold. You must be prepared. They can tell when you are making up a story on the spot. And for short term goals, you don't have to over do it either, by saying things like "I want to be site VP in 4 years." Be realistic and honest.

[fiveeleven]

Best advice I could possibly think of for you at this time is - stay on point, adjust the fine gain on you vision, and stay on track for March 2011 becoming a free man. Your son needs you to be out of the Navy. You need to be out of the Navy.You will find employment in a fairly timely manner. Do not let the lifers scare you into doing something you will ultimately regret. Its good out here. Good luck. MM2/ELT USS NIMITZ CVN-68  80-84 BOHICA

[jimbo0697]

Thanks for the advice five.  No worries about anyone (ie. lifers) scaring me into any decision about staying in I may regret.  My decisions have always been what I thought at the time was the right way for me.  I have never let anyone other than my family influence any decision I make.  I am a very strong person sometimes to the point of being abrasive. I'm not easily swayed by opinion or suggestion.  I am by no means bitter or angry at the Navy.  The Navy has done many great things for me and mine.  I've met some of the best friends and partied more than anyone should.  Now has started a new chapter in my life.  Having a son has forced me to reanalyze my priorties.  This has lead me on the path to pursuing a civilian career.  Thats the reason behind asking for advice on this forum.  Thanks everyone who has given suggestions.  This is the first place to give any suggestions that are usable and not vague.

[Yaeger]

You ever thought about staying military, but switching jobs and letting your 12 years count for time served?

I don't know if you have or are close to a degree, but lots of options that would guarantee more time spent with family. Apply to OCS for a flight position, supply, intel, whatever. A lot of communities outside of the nuke community have much better hours, officer pay would be nice, don't get deployed as much, and you could retire in 11 years.

Just something to consider.

[jimbo0697]

I've definitely thought about the officer option.  I have my degree.  I pursued it mostly in order to become more marketable outside the Navy.  If the job search proves fruitless, then I certainly will consider staying in and going officer.  Since having a child my priorities have changed.  The things that were important too me have lost some significance.  My goal  is to have a job that has a set schedule that allows us to live comfortably.  As far a schedule goes I don't mind shift work or anything else as long as its set and allows me to plan accordingly.  There is a lot to be said for going officer.  Going officer might give me a chance to influence some of the processes I always hoped would get better.  It is a great life and very prestigious.  My priorities start with getting out and then if that doesn't work then officer.  Thanks for the advice though.  It is definitely appreciated.

[jimbo0697]

Just curious if there is anything I can do to make myself more marketable prior to getting out aside from my degree?  I've considered six sigma black or green belt.  Does anyone have any thoughts on this certification?

[Gamecock]

Going officer might give me a chance to influence some of the processes I always hoped would get better.  

No, it won't.

[hamsamich]

Make sure you are on Monster and the big resume websites.  I average 1-2 cold calls/emails a month for power plant and other jobs, usually house jobs.  And this is just from being on Monster.  Got 4 one month. Seems like I get more calls when I update something on Monster, so update it frequently.  I do have alot of other experience besides Navy, but the Navy Nuc part is what they are looking for almost half the time.  And that is you.  Recently headhunters looking for constellation spots have been calling me (3 in 6 months).  Try them.  Make sure you equate Navy experience to what jobs headhunters are trying to fill.  They use keywords to look for resumes, and some of them probably come from power plant job descriptions, if I were to guess.

[crusemm]

I just transitioned in May / June of this year and I am intimately familiar with this process.  I will try to PM you in the next few days with more detail, but I will give you the short version now (some is a repeat of the above posts):
1.  Write your resume (actually, write a base resume that you will use to write company specific resumes off of)
2.  Send your resume to as many reviewers as possible.  If you are using Bradley-Morris as a headhunter they have a resume review that is part of their service (not plugging them, just passing along info).  Compile and use the feedback they give you.  If you are really really lucky someone on here might offer to review your resume for civilian nuke specifics.
3.  Sign up and register your resume on all of the utility websites.  Some jobs may only be open for 1-2 days, and if your resume is already on file, it makes it much easier to apply
4.  Scour utility websites daily, and sign up for e-mail alerts.
5.  Be prepared to pay for your own flights for initial interviews, most companies will only pay to fly you out for 2nd / final interviews
6.  Practice for the POSS test (do a search, there are some books that can help, mostly practice ASVAB's)
7.  Practice STAR interviews, preferably with several people, but even if it's just one person it makes a big difference
8.  Take any interview that's offered, and remember that ANY contact by ANYONE in the company is an interview
9.  Take notes during interviews, especially peoples names.  Send thank you notes to everyone you have contact with at the company, from the interviewers to the lady that offers you a cup of coffee.
That's just the highlights off the top of my head, hope it helps

[co60slr]

I have my degree. 

It is a great life and very prestigious. 

My priorities start with getting out and then if that doesn't work then officer. 

Your degree (or SixSigma certs) alone don't get you a job.  They get you an interview.  I haven't heard of anyone asking for SixSigma certs in the nuclear industry.   What is your degree/GPA?   Are you PO1, PO2, CPO?

Enlisted/Officer are both jobs.  It's not "a life" and it's less prestigious than you think short of being a CO or ADM. 

I've never seen someone say they're getting out, but using "Officer" as a fall-back plan.  I'm curious, what process(es) would you want to change?  (And...why can't you change them now?)

It's not clear to me that ANY of your plans are going to work.   What do you want to do in CIVLANT?

[jimbo0697]

I don't expect any one thing to get me a job.  I'm not foolish enough to believe that I can do one or even two specific things and suddenly get a call saying your hired be here tommorrow.  I'm very focused on getting out and having a job in March when I EAOS.  As far as officers go, I believe it is very much a life style.  Most of the guys I know will tell you openly that at they preach elitism and aristocratic ideals at the academy.  As a result, some never make contact with the guys that work for them.  I definitely would like to make a impact on these types of ideas and thought processes.  As far as prestigious,  I'm not sure what your definition of prestigious is.
I Will give you a definition ( prestigious - esteemed: having an illustrious reputation; respected; "our esteemed leader"; "a prestigious author").  Only 4 out of the last ten US Presidents were not Navy officers at one time.  I have no allusions that I would one day be President.  Is there a position that is more prestigious? As far as processes I'd like to change, Most of these are at the worker Division Officer, and Engineer level.  I'd like to be able to change things with liberty, scheduling, evaluations, and awards.   These policies may not effect the Navy as a whole, however they would make where ever I go to better in the long run and the guys would appreciate someone looking out for them.  Today your pretty much out on a limb.  The guys in charge only think about getting themselves promoted and all too often this results in them being less of a shit screen and more of a shovel.  Those are the type of things I'd like to change.  In the civilian world I'd like to get into operations.  This would allow for stability, a set schedule, and it would allow me and my family to live comfortably.  Those are my priorities. Take care Co60.

[co60slr]

As far as officers go, I believe it is very much a life style. 

 
In the civilian world I'd like to get into operations.  This would allow for stability, a set schedule, and it would allow me and my family to live comfortably. 

Those are my priorities.

Take care Co60.

Well Jimbo, I was both and I can tell you that you haven't got the first clue about "Officer".  And yes...some Academy graduates don't either.  It's about doing a job with certain responsibilities...mostly "the buck stops here".  However, many senior enlisted do a better job at leading than some officers.  Your uniform doesn't define "leadership".

Otherwise, if you're not going to share your Degree, GPA, and EWS/EOOW status, good luck and getting any further help in this Forum that will matter to you in the long run.

Co58

[Gamecock]

Is there a position that is more prestigious? As far as processes I'd like to change, Most of these are at the worker Division Officer, and Engineer level.  I'd like to be able to change things with liberty, scheduling, evaluations, and awards.   These policies may not effect the Navy as a whole, however they would make where ever I go to better in the long run and the guys would appreciate someone looking out for them.  Today your pretty much out on a limb.  The guys in charge only think about getting themselves promoted and all too often this results in them being less of a shit screen and more of a shovel.  Those are the type of things I'd like to change.  In the civilian world I'd like to get into operations.  This would allow for stability, a set schedule, and it would allow me and my family to live comfortably.  Those are my priorities. Take care Co60.

Well, as a current nuclear officer with 20+ years of experience, I can tell you that you are wrong on many levels.  Most officers I know are not the self-serving type you refer to.  Being a nuke is tough work, and sometimes the work has to be "Shovelled" downward. 

I would also be willing to bet that as a JO, you would have little impact on liberty, awards, evals, an scheduling.  I know I didn't. 

I think you'd have more impact on the things you mention by making CPO.

Just my 2 cents.

[tselby]

Well, as a current nuclear officer with 20+ years of experience, I can tell you that you are wrong on many levels.  Most officers I know are not the self-serving type you refer to.  Being a nuke is tough work, and sometimes the work has to be "Shovelled" downward. 

I would also be willing to bet that as a JO, you would have little impact on liberty, awards, evals, an scheduling.  I know I didn't. 

I think you'd have more impact on the things you mention by making CPO.

Just my 2 cents.

As a CPO for the last 8yrs of my 20yr Naval career i did have a direct impact on my divisons - LIBERTY, Evaluations, work load, working hours, and even though i did not have the ok of my COB because my leadership style was not the same as his, i did garner his respect for sticking to my style. I also garnered the respect of my men and they would work hard and do anything for me. I never once left before all of my men did even when i had nothing to do..... Go make CHIEF and make a difference if that is what you desire.