Navy application/MEPS/Security Clearance

[fuelrod101]

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking on here for a bit and now have decided to start posting.  I have a question about getting into the Navy.  I have a BS in physics and am applying for an officer position for a Navy Nuke.  Regarding my application.  On it there is a part where it asks if you have ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist.  I am unsure what to put here because I have seen both for a brief period of depression I had while in school.  I was prescribed an antidepressant and took it for a period of 3 months and then stopped.  My question relates on what I should put down on my application because I really want to join but am worried if I disclose that I was treated for anxiety and depression I will be disqualified from joining.  Now, I know we are never supposed to lie but I have also heard that a lot of recruiters say to do just that and that the military cannot check your mental health records.  So my question is does anyone here have any advice from personal experience or experience from a friend or just any advice on what I should do?  Being a nuclear engineer in the navy has been my passion since I was 5 years old and even though I did see a psychiatrist and psychologist (big mistake now I realize), I am not some basket case nor am I depressed.

[Marlin]

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking on here for a bit and now have decided to start posting.  I have a question about getting into the Navy.  I have a BS in physics and am applying for an officer position for a Navy Nuke.  Regarding my application.  On it there is a part where it asks if you have ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist.  I am unsure what to put here because I have seen both for a brief period of depression I had while in school.  I was prescribed an antidepressant and took it for a period of 3 months and then stopped.  My question relates on what I should put down on my application because I really want to join but am worried if I disclose that I was treated for anxiety and depression I will be disqualified from joining.  Now, I know we are never supposed to lie but I have also heard that a lot of recruiters say to do just that and that the military cannot check your mental health records.  So my question is does anyone here have any advice from personal experience or experience from a friend or just any advice on what I should do?  Being a nuclear engineer in the navy has been my passion since I was 5 years old and even though I did see a psychiatrist and psychologist (big mistake now I realize), I am not some basket case nor am I depressed.

You want to be an officer but you are asking whether or not you should lie to get there? Not a good sign.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Hi everyone.  I've been lurking on here for a bit and now have decided to start posting.  I have a question about getting into the Navy.  I have a BS in physics and am applying for an officer position for a Navy Nuke.  Regarding my application.  On it there is a part where it asks if you have ever seen a psychologist or psychiatrist.  I am unsure what to put here because I have seen both for a brief period of depression I had while in school.  I was prescribed an antidepressant and took it for a period of 3 months and then stopped.  My question relates on what I should put down on my application because I really want to join but am worried if I disclose that I was treated for anxiety and depression I will be disqualified from joining.  Now, I know we are never supposed to lie but I have also heard that a lot of recruiters say to do just that and that the military cannot check your mental health records.  So my question is does anyone here have any advice from personal experience or experience from a friend or just any advice on what I should do?  Being a nuclear engineer in the navy has been my passion since I was 5 years old and even though I did see a psychiatrist and psychologist (big mistake now I realize), I am not some basket case nor am I depressed.

Be honest.... if you don't have the gumption to accept the consequences of your actions, you have no business owning a commission.  If you are caught lying...... never trust recruiters. You will have to see a doctor and do some waivers, but it shouldnt be an issue. I had a seizure and was in a coma for a month. I still got in, ableit I was enlisted.


 

[MM1 subnuke]

From an ex recruiter, here is my $.02 .  If you tell them why you were seen by the head doctor (nickname, sorry) and tell them that you stopped taking the meds, they are going to ask for the records.  you will then have to get them.  They will then (several weeks to months later) ask for a note from the doctor stating that you are okay to be off the medications, and that he "released" you form them.  If you tell them you just quit taking them because you didn't like them, or how they made you feel, you will not get in.  I am probably one of the few people on this site that will tell you this, but that whole integrity thing is kind of a fine line to walk sometimes.  I would honestly tell you to do what you feel is right.  If you want to get in, no questions ask, say "No, I've never seen a head doc", and don't ever change your story, ever.  If you can't in good conscience lie, then tell the truth, but be prepared for them to say we don't want you, because that is most likely what will happen.  That is the truth, and by the way, most recruiters will tell you to lie in this case, its just not worth the paper work hassle.

[Cycoticpenguin]

From an ex recruiter, here is my $.02 .  If you tell them why you were seen by the head doctor (nickname, sorry) and tell them that you stopped taking the meds, they are going to ask for the records.  you will then have to get them.  They will then (several weeks to months later) ask for a note from the doctor stating that you are okay to be off the medications, and that he "released" you form them.  If you tell them you just quit taking them because you didn't like them, or how they made you feel, you will not get in.  I am probably one of the few people on this site that will tell you this, but that whole integrity thing is kind of a fine line to walk sometimes.  I would honestly tell you to do what you feel is right.  If you want to get in, no questions ask, say "No, I've never seen a head doc", and don't ever change your story, ever.  If you can't in good conscience lie, then tell the truth, but be prepared for them to say we don't want you, because that is most likely what will happen.  That is the truth, and by the way, most recruiters will tell you to lie in this case, its just not worth the paper work hassle.

Just how much experience do you have at the DOD researching security clearances again? too bad so sad if the recruiter and him have to do more paperwork. If he gets caught, that's his butt not yours, so easy to say. We appreciate your SME-ness on recruiting, but you know as well as I do, that if he gets caught, thats BAD. Its paperwork dude, not a prison sentence. With his background, he could do something in the civilian sector or continue education if he didnt get in. Heck, he could get in a civilian plant right now. if he commissions and gets caught with a defective commission and gets discharged, just how well do you think that looks on a resume???

[drayer54]

You want to be an officer but you are asking whether or not you should lie to get there? Not a good sign.

Let it be known that on this day, I agree with Marlin. Find another career path my friend because this is clearly not a good fit for you. Not trying to be harsh, but if your background is the way it sounds and the stresses ahead... Plus your initial approach and lying to people in the attempt to get a clearance. Your asking about fibbing to be an ambassador integrity and all that is officerness. Look elsewhere my friend....

[fuelrod101]

After reading a bit more about waivers I'm not going to lie.  Also before you go questioning my integrity you should know that I have no interest in a civilian career.  This is what I want to do and I am serious about it.  You could say that "well I guess you should have thought about that before you saw a psychologist", but I was dealing with my parents divorce at the time.  It was not fun.  I'll report back what my recruiter says when I turn in my application.

[Styrofoam]

After reading a bit more about waivers I'm not going to lie.  Also before you go questioning my integrity you should know that I have no interest in a civilian career.  This is what I want to do and I am serious about it.  You could say that "well I guess you should have thought about that before you saw a psychologist", but I was dealing with my parents divorce at the time.  It was not fun.  I'll report back what my recruiter says when I turn in my application.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[shocker]

You could say that "well I guess you should have thought about that before you saw a psychologist"

Just going to throw this out there - your physical and mental well being is not worth a military career.  I would never tell someone they should have thought about NOT seeing a doctor if they had a medical issue.  Get cleared, don't keep cobwebs, enjoy.

[fuelrod101]

Spoke with the recruiter.  He said that for things like divorce, death of a family member that getting a waiver should be no problem.  Huge load off my chest. Application in!

[Cycoticpenguin]

Spoke with the recruiter.  He said that for things like divorce, death of a family member that getting a waiver should be no problem.  Huge load off my chest. Application in!

Makes me wonder why he told you to lie in the first place. Good luck, and have fun talking with the admiral...

[Styrofoam]

Makes me wonder why he told you to lie in the first place.

An unnatural fear of paperwork and not wanting to take the chance of getting the waiver denied and not getting ti sign him up.

I can't tell you how many times I got the speech about putting yes on any of my paperwork. It's a good thing I didn't listen to them and I looked up the stuff online. My recruiter said I wouldn't get in with a history of ADHD, but the doctor at MEPS couldn't have cared less.

[MM1 subnuke]

Doctors at MEPS are hit and miss.  Some of them want patient records on every illness out there, some of them could care less.  That is why recruiters tell you to lie.  They want you in, especially if they spend lots of time helping you get in, and then you get denied.  I can't tell you how many I lost during my tenure due to surgeries, ADD and ADHD, phsych visit's when they were younger and so on.  Then after you lose the person, this is what you hear from you RINC (recruiter in charge) and Zone Supervisor, "Shipmate, what you got for me now?  You're sitting on a donut...Make it happen"  Next thing you know, you're working 16 to 17 hours a day, making phone calls for probably 6 to 8 of those hours.  Nobody wants to go through that month in and month out for 3 years.  The job is very hard, and so telling people to say they are in perfect health and always have been is the norm.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Doctors at MEPS are hit and miss.  Some of them want patient records on every illness out there, some of them could care less.  That is why recruiters tell you to lie.  They want you in, especially if they spend lots of time helping you get in, and then you get denied.  I can't tell you how many I lost during my tenure due to surgeries, ADD and ADHD, phsych visit's when they were younger and so on.  Then after you lose the person, this is what you hear from you RINC (recruiter in charge) and Zone Supervisor, "Shipmate, what you got for me now?  You're sitting on a donut...Make it happen"  Next thing you know, you're working 16 to 17 hours a day, making phone calls for probably 6 to 8 of those hours.  Nobody wants to go through that month in and month out for 3 years.  The job is very hard, and so telling people to say they are in perfect health and always have been is the norm.

Too bad. Theres reasons why they have their stipulations. Its not up to you, or "Joe Recruiter" to pick and choose the standards. If you didnt like the job, you could have put in a billet to go back out to sea. telling people to lie goes against all the training you went through. If you cant meet your quota honestly, then perhaps you shouldnt be a recruiter?  

edit:

because of crappy recruiters like yourself, I had to go through hell for my first year on my boat. So Im a bit biased and angry.

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,13864.msg76710.html#msg76710

The senior people on here may remember my plight

[drayer54]

Too bad. Theres reasons why they have their stipulations. Its not up to you, or "Joe Recruiter" to pick and choose the standards. If you didnt like the job, you could have put in a billet to go back out to sea. telling people to lie goes against all the training you went through. If you cant meet your quota honestly, then perhaps you shouldnt be a recruiter?  edit:
because of crappy recruiters like yourself, I had to go through hell for my first year on my boat. So Im a bit biased and angry.
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,13864.msg76710.html#msg76710
The senior people on here may remember my plight

Ole "Charlie" was used and abused as young one on the ship. He couldn't get a TLD during a time that wasn't fun for the ship, anyways the more senior guys did a lot of things to him that were pretty much terrible. I was his first supervisor and I remember having to spend a lot of time on the issue as he was treated unusually bad. He probably had it worse than anyone else I saw in my time there. The errors and issues he had coming in were a real setback for him and I can sign off on the fact that some people had done him wrong in the past.

[MM1 subnuke]

Just giving my opinion Mr. Charlie Murphy.  I realize your life must have been hard in the Navy, and I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.  All I can say is what I know form my experience.  Going back to sea as a recruiter was a hit on your record.  And getting a billet out of recruiting was almost impossible to do, I promise you.  It's okay if you don't like my comments, but I'm just giving my opinion, so if you disagree just say that, nothing more.  You have no idea what it was like to be a recruiter, and as such shouldn't give comments like "too bad" or "not up to you", because guess what, it was and still is up to recruiters how things happen.  The Navy puts all of the brunt on the recruiters shoulders, and ultimately if something goes awry in the process, the recruiter is the one taking all the blame and responsiblilty.  So yes, it is up to "Joe Recruiter" to decide the best course of action.  I don't care how many people in the Navy talk to you about integrity and such, anyone who says they have never lied about something in the Navy is lying to your face.  That's the person you don't trust.  At least most recruiters I knew/know were honest enough to the potential recruits to tell them why they wanted them to lie.  You take this guy for example, 6 years ago, he wouldn't have gotten in to the Navy here in Houston.  I can't speak for today, because things change and personnel change.  All am doing is giving my advice, and as such it probably differs from others.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Just giving my opinion Mr. Charlie Murphy.  I realize your life must have been hard in the Navy, and I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.  All I can say is what I know form my experience.  Going back to sea as a recruiter was a hit on your record.  And getting a billet out of recruiting was almost impossible to do, I promise you.  It's okay if you don't like my comments, but I'm just giving my opinion, so if you disagree just say that, nothing more.  You have no idea what it was like to be a recruiter, and as such shouldn't give comments like "too bad" or "not up to you", because guess what, it was and still is up to recruiters how things happen.  The Navy puts all of the brunt on the recruiters shoulders, and ultimately if something goes awry in the process, the recruiter is the one taking all the blame and responsiblilty.  So yes, it is up to "Joe Recruiter" to decide the best course of action.  I don't care how many people in the Navy talk to you about integrity and such, anyone who says they have never lied about something in the Navy is lying to your face.  That's the person you don't trust.  At least most recruiters I knew/know were honest enough to the potential recruits to tell them why they wanted them to lie.  You take this guy for example, 6 years ago, he wouldn't have gotten in to the Navy here in Houston.  I can't speak for today, because things change and personnel change.  All am doing is giving my advice, and as such it probably differs from others.

I appreciate your candidness, which is why Im not "attacking" you. I got a pretty raw deal for the first couple years of my enlistment because some recruiters didnt want to "do the paperwork". Like I said, Im a little biased. I think its more to do with the system then the individual recruiters, but at the same time, you know good and well you shouldnt advocate lying. Its out of sight, out of mind for you once they sign that dotted line and raise their right hand. YOU do not have to deal with the reprecussions of the "what ifs". THATS my point. If he gets in, and it comes up at some point, then what? The odds of them finding it are small, yes. But 1% is still a huge margin in my opinion. It took one doctor to look at my stuff and de rail everything. You say I have no idea what its like to be a recruiter. Thats true, but i do have applicable experience of being screwed over by a recruiter. The worst part? I didnt lie, he just threw out my paper work without telling me.

[MM1 subnuke]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that.  I will give you a good example of how I trianed the other recruiters in my station.  You give the applicant all the options and scenarios, tell them what will happen if we go this route and what will happen if we go that route.  You let them choose which path they want to take.  Most candidates will take the path of least resistance.  Here is the thing a good recruiter will do, if someone has an issue that is ongoing or re-occuring, you do the paperwork..End of story.  If I had a kid that took ADHD meds for 2 years then stopped taking them becasue his parents wised up and realized the doctor was taking their money, I tell the kid NEVER EVER mention this to anyone again.  If they bring it up in bootcamp, I get a phone call about it, and have to tell my side of the story.  It happened to me twice.  I told the kid to lie one of the two times, the other time I didn't know anyting about it.  The time I told the kid to lie, he hated bootcamp and knew he would, and did, get kicked out and sent home if he told the truth.  I got some flak about it, but nothing more since my command knew a little about what was going on, with the kid not really wanting to go in the first place.  See something the public doesn't understand about the whole process, is that recruiting is a business.  We spend lots and lots of money on getting these kids into the navy.  Meps visits, hotels, government vehicles driving them back and forth form home and to the office, so on and so forth.  You get my drift.  Then a kid decides, I changed my mind, and the government is out a some money, and the recruiter is out some time.  As a recruiter, you have to make the best choices possible.  If I had a kid that didn't want to go, I cut him out quick.  I didn't want to waist my time trying to convince him of something he would regret and hate me for later.  I just cut him, and moved on.  That is why I was a GOOD recruiter.  I knew when to cut my losses and move on.   I helped the kids that wanted to be helped.  See another thing you don't understand is that the Navy rejects people left and right.  I realize you and some others get screwed over by the process, and I was one of those early on in my Navy time, part of the reason I got out.  But I got to see the other side of the fence.  There are kids out there that desperately need the military.  Their lives are in bad shape, for vairous reasons.  maybe they have a bad home life, maybe they are hanging around the wrong people and have made some bad choices.  So on and so forth.  I can tell you, I wish I could have told the kids with records to lie, but that one will always come to light.  I can't tell you how many kids I had that had a juvey record, and couldn't get in.  I'm not talking about major stuff, I'm talking getting caught smoking weed, or a minor in possesion, or just really small stuff.  Not stealing or anything like that.  I tried to not pot people into the Navy I wouldn't want to have to work with one day.  That is how I justified what I did.  It might not be right, but tell that to the guy out on the boat who is working 6 hours on and 6 hours off due to the lack of personnel in his department.  He needs recruiters to push people through, and he doesn't give a dang about what it takes.  I've been that guy, believe me I hated life.  All that said, I just try my best to shed some light on the process and what to expect.  I don't regret one bit of my Navy experience.  Some great times, some really, really bad times.

[fuelrod101]

Update* So the recruiter told me today that I might want to consider going back to the doctor so he can formally "take me off my meds" and say that I am no longer "depressed".  He also said that it might not matter because it happened 4 years ago and was for a transient issue rather than for something like ADD or formal depression and I could just leave it up to the examiner at MEPS.  He said chances are, I should be fine but it is something they could reject me for.  I honestly don't really trust head doctors because, if you look at it from their perspective, they are running a business and saying someone isn't depressed anymore is like throwing money out the door to them.  I think I am just going to go with it, mention it in my screening and let the chips fall where they may.  Optimistic nonetheless.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Update* So the recruiter told me today that I might want to consider going back to the doctor so he can formally "take me off my meds" and say that I am no longer "depressed".  He also said that it might not matter because it happened 4 years ago and was for a transient issue rather than for something like ADD or formal depression and I could just leave it up to the examiner at MEPS.  He said chances are, I should be fine but it is something they could reject me for.  I honestly don't really trust head doctors because, if you look at it from their perspective, they are running a business and saying someone isn't depressed anymore is like throwing money out the door to them.  I think I am just going to go with it, mention it in my screening and let the chips fall where they may.  Optimistic nonetheless.

If you go to a doctor with the preface that you need clearance to join the navy, Im willing to bet a good majority of them will be willing to work with you.  I actually agree with your recruiters idea for once.

[MM1 subnuke]

Now didn't I basically say that above, that he would have to have "formally" released you from you medications?  Odds are, that if you don't do this step now, you will have to anyways, as most medical examiners request these records prior to entry.

[Gamecock]

  I told the kid to lie

Sure hope you aren't recruitng anymore, and not standing watch in one of my plants ever again.

When guys like you, the first navy person a kid sees, advocates lying, the foundation is laid that lying, when you need to, is A-ok.

And we wonder why we have integrity problems in the fleet.  The picture is becoming more clear.

Cheers,
GC

  Next thing you know, you're working 16 to 17 hours a day, making phone calls for probably 6 to 8 of those hours.  Nobody wants to go through that month in and month out for 3 years. 

Suck it up and do the job that you chose to do.

[HydroDave63]

I'm not talking about major stuff, I'm talking getting caught smoking weed, or a minor in possesion, or just really small stuff.  Not stealing or anything like that.  I tried to not pot people into the Navy I wouldn't want to have to work with one day. 

a deeper Freudian slip? 

[Styrofoam]

Everybody at the recruiting station near me advocates lying, including the Chief. But I was lucky that I knew better than to believe them when they told me any history of ADHD and/or asthma symptoms I'd get disqualified immediately, which turned out to be total bull. I learned to do my own research and not rely on what other people tell me, even if they are wearing a uniform. That probably will turn out to be a bad thing when I'm told to do something. The problem is that the people who will believe what they are told, won't be the ones to go look on the internet to find the answers to their questions about the Navy.

Ok, I'm done for now.

Oh, and there's nothing you can say or do will justify advocating lying, but I'm sure you've heard that.

[HydroDave63]

I learned to do my own research and not rely on what other people tell me, even if they are wearing a uniform. That probably will turn out to be a bad thing when I'm told to do something.

Here is a recruiter that won't fib to ya and only takes recruits that can pass PRT

Chest i fala !!