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wlrun3@aol.com

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INPO Rating
« on: Nov 25, 2011, 12:02 »

What is the easiest way to find a plant's INPO rating?

From a recent job posting, "Monticello Nuclear Generating Plant is an INPO 1, single unit boiling water reactor..."


Offline Broadzilla

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #1 on: Nov 25, 2011, 12:21 »
Only if the company releases it.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #2 on: Nov 25, 2011, 01:51 »
I nformation
N ot
P ublicly
O pened

?

 :P

Offline Broadzilla

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #3 on: Nov 25, 2011, 02:06 »
Yep, I guess it's legal as the utilities pay for it, but in at least TVA and CGS case I believe that might be fuzzy as allegedly they are government run utilities. Though in truth the Government provides us with no funding at all.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18, 2012, 11:55 »


http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/actionmatrix_summary.html


Wouldn't the INPO rating system be similar to the NRC's Reactor Oversight Process and be similarly available to the public?





« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2012, 11:59 by wlrun3 »

Offline RDTroja

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #5 on: Jan 19, 2012, 01:52 »

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/actionmatrix_summary.html


Wouldn't the INPO rating system be similar to the NRC's Reactor Oversight Process and be similarly available to the public?



INPO is a private, utility run organization and not subject to the 'Government in the Sunshine' laws.
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Offline ToadSuck

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #6 on: Jan 19, 2012, 06:17 »
At my plant the INPO rating is posted in our conference room, but in big bold letters it says that this information is PRIVATE and not for transmittal. I don't remember the exact verbage, but it basically says don't even share within the company....

Offline Higgs

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #7 on: Jan 19, 2012, 04:56 »
The public doesn't have access to INPO. Like was mentioned, it is a private organization formed from within the industry.

That said, the INPO and NRC ratings are often tied pretty close together. You won't ever find an INPO 1 plant in NRC column 4. If anything, the NRC lags INPO a bit because INPO is supposed to be identifying areas for improvement before the NRC comes in with their version of "help."
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2012, 04:59 by Higgs »
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wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #8 on: Jan 19, 2012, 05:41 »

It looks like NRC ROP columns 1 through 5 are very similar to INPO ratings 1 through 5.


Offline RDTroja

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #9 on: Jan 19, 2012, 05:55 »
Similar processes, yes. Different organizations and different rules. INPO is private and answers only to the sponsoring utilities.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

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"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

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wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #10 on: Jan 20, 2012, 12:07 »

This is the article that prompted my question about the similarity between NRC and INPO ratings.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120115/NEWS05/201150541/Michigan-s-Palisades-nuclear-plant-may-be-named-one-of-nation-s-5-worst


Thankyou for the help. I now have a much better understanding of the relevant regulatory rating process.

« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2012, 12:12 by wlrun3 »

Offline RRhoads

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #11 on: Jan 20, 2012, 12:34 »
Similar processes, yes. Different organizations and different rules. INPO is private and answers only to the sponsoring utilities.

Name a "non- sponsoring" utility
 :P

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #12 on: Jan 20, 2012, 12:50 »

I have noticed that the most mentioned status of a plant among plant personnel is its INPO rating.



« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2012, 12:52 by wlrun3 »

Offline Incline

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #13 on: Jan 20, 2012, 03:07 »
A good INPO rating usually begets a good NRC rating. And it keeps the insurance rate lower, the regulators off your back, the local population on your side, industry peers come looking to see if the processes would work at their plant, and so on and so on.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #14 on: Jan 20, 2012, 04:21 »
Name a "non- sponsoring" utility
 :P

Well, there is Potomac Electric Power... they are a utility but non-nuclear.

(Actually, I am not even sure they exist anymore, but you get the point.)
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

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"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

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wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #15 on: Jan 21, 2012, 02:17 »

Given what has been discussed on this thread, again, isn't there a way to find a plant's INPO rating. I can see a lot of positive benefits in this. I can't see any negative effects.


Offline Incline

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #16 on: Jan 22, 2012, 03:50 »
Given what has been discussed on this thread, again, isn't there a way to find a plant's INPO rating. I can see a lot of positive benefits in this. I can't see any negative effects.


I believe there is a way, but I think you have to have member (utility) access. I also think it used to be published in Nuclear News once a year but I don't think it's done anymore.

Offline Chimera

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #17 on: Jan 23, 2012, 09:34 »
Given what has been discussed on this thread, again, isn't there a way to find a plant's INPO rating. I can see a lot of positive benefits in this. I can't see any negative effects.

We used to be able to get this information from the NRC Resident Inspector.  Check with them at whatever site you're at.

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #18 on: Jan 23, 2012, 10:06 »

Chimera,
   When the NRC resident inspector provided the INPO ratings was it in the form of a quarterly status of all plants?

http://www.nrc.gov/NRR/OVERSIGHT/ASSESS/actionmatrix_summary.html


http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/list-power-reactor-units.html


http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/reactor-status/ps.html


The first link is the NRC Reactor Oversight Process (ROP) prior quarter Column 1 through 5 status of all plants.

The second link is the NRC list of each plant's basic information.

The third link is the NRC current power level of each plant.

Mr. Rennhack has provided us with the current/upcoming season's outage list.

What is needed is a link to a list of future planned outages and a link to current plant INPO status.

« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2012, 10:59 by wlrun3 »

Offline Bigchris

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #19 on: Jan 24, 2012, 01:01 »
Sometimes the INPO rating of a plant can be found with a Google search. This search for  example, found “…Seabrook’s INPO score of 1 and Millstone’s INPO score of 2 were recently affirmed in the first quarter of 2010,” at this website.

I am getting the feeling that the links did not transfer so here are the addresses:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=seabrook+nuclear+INPO+rating&gbv=2&oq=seabrook+nuclear+INPO+rating&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=4562l13500l0l14156l28l28l0l18l18l0l172l1219l2.8l10l0

http://www.mmwec.org/documents/CreditRatings/MoodysUpgrade_910.pdf


Offline Broadzilla

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #20 on: Jan 24, 2012, 05:10 »
The public doesn't have access to INPO. Like was mentioned, it is a private organization formed from within the industry.

That said, the INPO and NRC ratings are often tied pretty close together. You won't ever find an INPO 1 plant in NRC column 4. If anything, the NRC lags INPO a bit because INPO is supposed to be identifying areas for improvement before the NRC comes in with their version of "help."


Incorrect. Ask Connecticut Yankee. A nearly good for INPO 1 every time they were rated and the NRC came down on them HARD after an INPO 1 Rating.

Offline Higgs

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #21 on: Jan 24, 2012, 06:08 »

Incorrect. Ask Connecticut Yankee. A nearly good for INPO 1 every time they were rated and the NRC came down on them HARD after an INPO 1 Rating.

Yeah I didn't mean it was impossible, simply unlikely. I understand there can be extreme cases.
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Offline Laundry Man

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #22 on: Jan 26, 2012, 08:52 »
Unfortunately for CY it was pretty much economics.  At that time Northeast was still taking it in the butt for the Millstone 1 fiasco and decoded not to spend the extra money to complete the upgrades that were in progress at CY.  It really was a shame they were not completed.  The CAL the NRC slapped on them didn't help either.  I was there very shortly after the final shutdown up until the CAL was lifted.
LM

Offline rshortr

Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 09:20 »
It looks like NRC ROP columns 1 through 5 are very similar to INPO ratings 1 through 5.

 INPO evaluates to improve plant performance in a manner that is supposed to be conducive to earnest improvement. The USNRC inspects plants for compliance with minimum standards. I worked for both.

IPREGEN

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 02:13 »
If a utility has a good rating they may put it in their annual report or other public documents.
But frequently the longer outages occur in the lower rated plants. "Confusion + chaos = cash"
http://www.exelonnuclearpartners.com/exelon-nuclear-management-model2.pdf

wlrun3@aol.com

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #25 on: Jul 14, 2012, 08:28 »

Average outage length for 2011, per the Nuclear Energy Institute, was 43 days.


Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: INPO Rating
« Reply #26 on: Jul 14, 2012, 11:17 »

Is a ten week long outage considered a "longer outage" or is that a normal outage by today's standards.

It would be considered a longer outage these days.  However, it could be that long due to replacing steam generators, turbines, transformers, etc....
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