STAR Re-enlistment questions

[queenofconfusion91]

My boyfriend is a nuke (MM3) on a carrier at his first duty station (Norfolk). He's been there for about 10 months & is about to go out on his first deployment. He'll hit 3 years in this August. So far, he does not like it, mainly due to his command. However, a few months ago we talked about him STAR re-enlisting & decided it was a good decision for a few reasons. We've been 450 miles apart since he got to Norfolk, but the plan is that as soon as deployment is over, I'll move up there. The BAH that will come with making E-5 will make this a lot less stressful financially (I'm currently a student working almost full time but at a job that doesn't pay much). However, he's come very very close to advancing on the last few exams so it's possible that he'll make it off the next. The bonus, while not a huge factor, was also something that played into the decision for him.

One of the biggest factors in the decision though was the possibility of him shaving some time off his sea duty. He was told by his CCC that if he star reenlists, it'd be possible for him to go to NPTU (where he was before Norfolk & where I currently live, although the city itself doesn't really matter to us) after 3 years on his ship. So basically instead of 4 years of sea duty, he could get 3 years sea and 3 years shore. He's learned in these short 10 months that he hates being at sea, and I hate it too so if an extra 2 years on shore could get us less time away from each other, we're both for it.

I know it depends on a lot of factors, but how likely is it that he could end up at NPTU? Or even at a different shore duty (from my understanding this wouldn't shave off time from sea duty though?)? He did very well in A school and prototype and he's been doing well since he got to his ship. Is it worth the gamble? Is it likely he'll just end up with more sea time? The plan was for him to re-enlist as soon as they get over to where the bonus would be tax free, but (maybe it's just the deployment getting to me) now I'm questioning whether it's worth the chance.

[drayer54]

My boyfriend is a nuke (MM3) on a carrier at his first duty station (Norfolk). He's been there for about 10 months & is about to go out on his first deployment. He'll hit 3 years in this August. So far, he does not like it, mainly due to his command. However, a few months ago we talked about him STAR re-enlisting & decided it was a good decision for a few reasons. We've been 450 miles apart since he got to Norfolk, but the plan is that as soon as deployment is over, I'll move up there. The BAH that will come with making E-5 will make this a lot less stressful financially (I'm currently a student working almost full time but at a job that doesn't pay much). However, he's come very very close to advancing on the last few exams so it's possible that he'll make it off the next. The bonus, while not a huge factor, was also something that played into the decision for him.

One of the biggest factors in the decision though was the possibility of him shaving some time off his sea duty. He was told by his CCC that if he star reenlists, it'd be possible for him to go to NPTU (where he was before Norfolk & where I currently live, although the city itself doesn't really matter to us) after 3 years on his ship. So basically instead of 4 years of sea duty, he could get 3 years sea and 3 years shore. He's learned in these short 10 months that he hates being at sea, and I hate it too so if an extra 2 years on shore could get us less time away from each other, we're both for it.

I know it depends on a lot of factors, but how likely is it that he could end up at NPTU? Or even at a different shore duty (from my understanding this wouldn't shave off time from sea duty though?)? He did very well in A school and prototype and he's been doing well since he got to his ship. Is it worth the gamble? Is it likely he'll just end up with more sea time? The plan was for him to re-enlist as soon as they get over to where the bonus would be tax free, but (maybe it's just the deployment getting to me) now I'm questioning whether it's worth the chance.

Team 69'er it sounds like....

There are good reasons to re-enlist and bad reasons to re-enlist.

1) PM user "DONTGOTONPTU" for a more recent update on prototype/NPTU life.... (short story... it sucks)

2) I didn't see any good reasons for re-enlisting in that message.

3) Encourage him to take college courses on deployment. No excuses.

When I was a younger guy on Ike and going overseas it was tough to travel back and forth to visit my then girlfriend and now wife who lived in College Station, TX. She was going to college and I was earning the right to do the same. We faced some of the issues that you are and I am going to encourage you to not get short sighted. He'll make rank soon enough and you guys will be just fine....  If he doesn't like it... he needs to evaluate why that is and if it is going to improve. For me, it never improved, in fact it got worse.... As for the money, he can make that up in his civilian years. It shouldn't be the deciding factor (think about that 50 cents today vs a dollar tomorrow wise tail ). If Navy life is what he wants to pursue, then encourage him and go for it! Money isn't everything!


I really wish the Navy didn't wave the BAH carrot in front of guys like this and use the deployment to put some gravy on top.


Good Luck!!!

[queenofconfusion91]

Yep, CVN 69. I just got done reading some more threads on here about NPTU & it seems pretty terrible across the board. He knows this to an extent but was still thinking it'd be preferable to ship life. But after reading all that, I'm thinking it'd be better to just tough out the ~2.5 years he'll have left of sea duty once deployment is over & get out (especially since the Ike is supposedly going into the yards after deployment, which would further decrease time at sea). If he didn't get or decided to forgo NPTU after star reenlisting, would he just stay on sea duty? I know he's eligible for shore duty after something like 5 years, but I remember reading that if you aren't going to stay in for the duration of the shore duty (3 years) they'll just keep you on a ship. I still feel more and more like getting out right away would be the best decision, seeing as how he is fairly miserable already and has no plans to make a career out of the navy. As far as college goes, he hasn't expressed any interest in that so far but I'll bring it up. It seems like it'd be difficult to keep up with coursework in a deployment setting though?

Ultimately it's his decision but he asked for my input originally when he was deciding, so I'll pass along my new insight. Sea duty hasn't been great so far but I really would rather not make things any worse for either of us.

[eaton1981]

Queen,

I just got out of the nav' with a tour at NPTU. While I wouldn't say I hated it, I definitely would NOT recommend him reenlisting in the hopes of his sea duty time getting reduced so he can go there. A) He probably won't get his time shortened and B) it's a damn tough shore duty.

Per the regs (MILPERSMAN), yes, it is TECHNICALLY possible for him to get a reduced time on his sea duty. However, he would have to get his entire chain of command to buy off on him heading up there early. I don't know of anyone from any carriers getting off early to go to any of the four prototypes, but maybe it's happened recently and I just wasn't paying attention. For sub guys, it's happened (not for me, but others I know). So, don't count on getting the good deal. Never count on getting the good deal.

If he reenlists smartly, he won't have to do any extra time after his NPTU tour. If he doesn't, he could face a year to 18 months back out at sea after his shore duty.

Bottom line, just like Drayer alluded to, is that none of what you wrote sounded like good reasons to reenlist. If he's reenlisting just to get BAH, I would strongly advise him against it. If he's worried about being able to afford rent so his girlfriend can come live with him, I understand that. But just like I tell all junior nukes...get a good portion of your sea duty time out of your way if you aren't married yet, and THEN worry about marriage. If you're going to go to school, how will you afford out of state tuition? If you get married, most states will grant military spouses in state tuition simply by showing military ID cards. Just a thought.

Was your boyfriend at Charleston or New York? If New York, and at MARF, there's a very good chance I know him. I was something called a TC, and saw most of the students that went through there at some point as they sat in their cubes studying (or more often than not, shooting the sh**).

Regardless of his decision to stay in or get out though, the biggest advice he could get is to get Chief Reactor Watch qualified ASAP, and PPWS, if possible. PPWS will go a long way, as long as he holds it for a while and stands the watch. Especially when it comes to him being up for a shore rotation (A School and NPS are MUCH better shore duties). Also, take some college classes while at sea! I am VERY glad that I did. I would find time to read while sitting in the chow line, waiting for after-watch cleanup to start, etc. Compared to NPS, the classes he'll take aren't that hard, so he should be able to do well with relatively small amounts of time investment.

Luke

[Samabby]

" he is fairly miserable already and has no plans to make a career out of the navy "

Adding extra years will not change this & generally makes things worse. Get a calendar and start to mark off the days until he finishes his current obligation.

Good luck in your education as well, Young Miss! 

[crewjobs_too]

I had a few  questions about STAR re-enlistment myself since my son is a student at prototype and the topic came up in discussion when I visited him last weekend.

• Doesn't the STAR re-enlistment contract also guarantee that you can attend a C school?  That school would be several months of shore duty wouldn't it?
• About the STAR re-enlistment bonus, is the entire bonus paid as a lump sum so if you re-enlist in a war zone you get the entire amount tax free?

For his regular enlistment bonus he got paid 1/3 after power school graduation, and will get the remaining 2/3 after qualifying from prototype. 

[HeavyD]

Couple of bits of info:

- "C" School.  Yes, he is "guaranteed" a "C" school, with one caveat.  Usually for the sailor to leave the ship before the end of their full sea tour, which is 54 months for first term sailors, the Navy has been waiving the guaranteed "C" school.  The reasoning is fairly straight forward.  The minimum amount of time a sailor must have remaining on active duty to go to their next duty station, which if I recall correctly, stands at 36 months for shore duty.

- Bonus and taxes.  The STAR bonus is paid in several installments.  Half is paid upfront when the sailor reenlists.  The remaining half is then divided into 5 equal installments, with each being paid 1 Oct every year afterward until all have been paid.  If a sailor were to reenlist before 1 Oct of a year, they would receive their first installment on 1 Oct of that same year.  As for taxes, if the reenlistment occurs while the sailor is in a "tax free" zone, then yes, 100% of the bonus (initial and all future installments) would be tax free as well.

Just to toss another 2 cents into the pool, I retired after 20 years back in December.  During my time I was an LPO, LCPO and Career Counselor.  I would NEVER recommend to a sailor that they reenlist for the money if they were miserable with their job and the Navy setting as a whole, dire financial situations not considered.

Also, there is absolutely no guarantee that the command will let him leave before the end of his full sea tour.  The CO can, fully within his authority, deny the request.  The thing that most before don't seem to understand is that if a command loses a sailor before their Projected Rotation Date (PRD), the command does not receive a replacement for that sailor until that sailor's original PRD.  Not saying that would happen to your husband, but it is well within the realm of possibilities.

I am not trying to scare you or your husband, I merely want, like virtually everyone else on here, for you and he to have as much pertinent and vital information as possible so BOTH of you can make the best decision for BOTH of you.  (hoping you noticed the emphasis there)

Best of luck to you both and thank you for BOTH of your sacrifices and service!

[DontGoToNPTU]

The "C" school is technically guaranteed but when is at the discretion of the navy and you HAVE to get it put into the reenlistment contract. I've only known 2 people to do this.

The CO can deny the request to go to NPTU but if there is bad enough need the Detailer can pull some strings to trump the CO, I've seen this happen quite a few times. Luke actually knows a lot more people that got off at ~3 years and went to NPTU than he thinks. Guthro and Dew for example.

Most of the people that leave the ship early to go to NPTU the reason behind my screen name. In other words don't go to NPTU solely for the goal of leaving the ship early, hell be miserable and make me miserable with him!

[eaton1981]

I thought C School for nukes was a thing from the 90's. I've never heard anybody mention it as something they actually got, or cared to get. What would be an example of "C" school for us? Battery Maintenance School? Op Water Chem for ELTs? ETMS for ROs?

Interesting about Guthro and Dew. Maybe that explains why there were second classes showing up to us a lot (not just those two, but a good handful of surface guys, now that I think about it). Same with sub guys.

Sam Guthro is now at Palo Verde enjoying life as an NLO. I guess even if you DO go to NPTU, and end up hating it (like most do), don't make the mistake of reenlisting yet AGAIN. Get out and go to work in the civilian side of things.

[crewjobs_too]

Guys can you explain something else, suppose you do get C school written in the contract  for STAR re-enlistment and then suppose the Navy decides not send you to a C school at their convenience, would that not be "breach of contract"?   

I have heard about people waiving their C school in return for a good deal like better orders but did the Navy actually force them to do it as in make you an offer you can't refuse.  Does the part about the 54 months sea tour (mentioned above) mean that if you do stick to your guns and do go to C school then afterwards you have to go back to the ship afterwards for the rest of your enlistment (losing a chance for shore duty)?   Does doing so make you a marked man. Thanks!

[eaton1981]

He won't get C-School specifically written into his contract. It's an implied fact that he's guaranteed a C school (http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/reference/milpersman/1000/1100Recruitinig/Documents/1160-100.pdf).

After doing some looking around, it turns out I DO know what C-schools are. They're called "welder school" "eog school" and "etms." There's also "rad con tech" that some of the em's and mm's go to.

Anyway, the gist is, once you're done with one of those specific schools, you get an extra NEC on top of the one you get when you finish NPTU.

There's a lot about "the needs of the Navy" dictating when a command will send a sailor to this "guaranteed" C-school.

The longest I know of is about 6-8 weeks (ETMS). Pretty sure welder is shorter than that, and I know eog school is even shorter.

Bottom line...do NOT reenlist using "C-School" as a factor by any means. The extra NEC won't do too much as far as advancement goes, and will actually make you work harder (in the case of welder or eog techs).

PM me or post any other questions you have. What rate is your son? Is he a sub vol or surface guy?

[eaton1981]

T-Burg,

Where are you trying to move to once the Nav' is done with you? Section 1 peeps have kinda scattered around different areas. Meyers at Hope Creek with Burks, Engler up at Oswego, Gardner in Illinois (I think) and Guthro's down in AZ. I'm sure even more of your off-crew pals are at other plants.

Unless you want shipyard work (which is viable since they have a ton of work to do), Bremerton/Silverdale might be a trap.

I did an interview at Fort Calhoun this last 2 days and I liked it. Entergy just posted for NLO positions up in MA, MI, and LA at their plants too.

[DontGoToNPTU]

I'm thinking upper midwest unless I can find a good paying job that I'd enjoy doing in Bremerton/ Silverdale. I got a few more months until I start applying to places. One thing is for sure is that there is no way I'm going to work in the Eastern time zone, too many Monday/ Sunday nights staying up late because football doesn't come on until 8pm.

[HeavyD]

Typically, a sailor's "C" School would be completed in-route to their next duty sation, i.e. in between leaving the ship and reporting to shore duty or another ship, whichever the case may be.

As for "breach of contract", if a sailor waives their "C" School, there is no breach since the waiver is purely voluntary.  A sailor doesn't have to take whatever deal is offered to them.  One can argue the semantics of waive versus breach versus "voluntary" for quite awhile, but them's the facts

Best of luck!

[eaton1981]

When have any EMs done Aeog school enroute to their ship?

It's not typical, it's RARE. Next to never.

Same with ETs and ETMS. Next to never.

MMs WILL do Welder school enroute though. Nearly always.

These are the majority of C schools for nukes. Any other type of school is not considered a "C School" in the sense that they give an extra NEC.

This info is current as of present day, 2012.

[HydroDave63]

As for "breach of contract", if a sailor waives their "C" School, there is no breach since the waiver is purely voluntary.  A sailor doesn't have to take whatever deal is offered to them.  One can argue the semantics of waive versus breach versus "voluntary" for quite awhile, but them's the facts

I just wonder what "motivational leverage" device the detailer will have at his/her disposal, once the old "I can get you "C" school on your requested date, with follow-on orders to CVN-65 for your remaining 22 months..." is no longer available 

[GLW]

He won't get C-School specifically written into his contract. It's an implied fact that he's guaranteed a C school

Anyway, the gist is, once you're done with one of those specific schools, you get an extra NEC on top of the one you get when you finish NPTU.

Mine was 4317,...

[eaton1981]

Ha. What is that (4317)?

[HydroDave63]

Ha. What is that (4317)?

Folks that couldn't pass BE&E school

[GLW]

Ha. What is that (4317)?

Diesel Technician,.....

Folks that couldn't pass BE&E school

Without the power to generate, there is no BE&E, why bother with tinkering in parasitic loads when you can be the load master?!?!?