Are pay rates slowly dropping?

[Content1]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

[Rennhack]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

The wages are stagnant, and will remain that way for a while.  They will not go up in the short term.  The wages went up while the stimulus money was spent which soaked up all of the available techs.  The stimulus money is gone and so are all the extra jobs.  Lots of people looking for work.

However, you are picking sites that historically pay lower.  Progress, Duke and other southern sites with a low cost of living vs tech supply pool tend to pay less, and have no trouble staffing at the lower rates.  If your main goal is to get as much money from your hours worked, then that should be your first question to the recruiter.  Try "Which sites pay the best? That's where I want to go." vs "I want to go HERE, what does it pay?"

[Content1]

Ginna also pays $26 in the North.  It is not a matter then of a lower cost of living, as the motels which we pay for are as high or higer in the south, it is the worker willing to go to those site are willing to take less then.  If the wages are stagnant, other strategies may come into play then.   It may be wise to go for places that pay full, not capped travel, or higher per diem, or work for excelon at sites with 7 12's.  You work shorter outages but get higer pay.  When I went to Peachbottom I maxed out my 401K with Bartlett and put a lot of non-taxable wages into the retirement account.  So I guess it is best to work with what we have.  I have no preference on where I work.  I found that when I go to a new site that so many say it sucks, but I get there and it is about the same.  So I guess it is a case of survival with all the stimulus DOE sites coming into the pool.  I heard that many in that pool were hired off the street, maybe many of them will tire of the travel.  I guess supply and demand will work this one out in time. 

[Eric_Bartlett]

Wages haven't stagnated for the industry as a whole just some utilities.  There are sites out there, that in the past 3 years, that have raised their rates to more than $30/hr.  On the other hand there are sites out there that paid $25/hr 3 yrs ago and still do.  Most have gone up over the past couple of years, some by a little, some by more.  BNI, and I would think the other vendors as well, continually ask for increases in the compensation packages, but depending on a sites historical ability to staff and the time frame of it's shutdown along a bunch of other factors is whether we get them or not.
 A site shutting down in January or in May, know they can pay the industry average or a little less because of the opportune timing of their outage, likewise a site shutting down and staffing during Peak season knows they have to pay more to attract enough techs to ensure a successful outage.   Then there is always the "how do they treat me factor"  - I've seen techs flock to lower paying sites over higher paying sites just due to the fact that the site treated them real well and didn't over work them.   There are of course a myriad of other factors that vendors take into account when asking for an increase in their rates as there are also a myriad of factors that the client takes into consideration when setting rates.  

Eric

[atomicarcheologist]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

Go where the money is the best until your pocket is full enough to allow the luxury of going where you want.

[loki]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

[Content1]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

     Most foreign nationals working as HP's made an effort to learn the language.  As long as they go home each season to a home plant in their nation it probably helps both nations.  In addition, they are legal aliens following the rules to get here.  It is those here illegally that hurt our economy.  The job of an HP is both the easiest and the hardest jobs, depending on your assignment.  I wish Barlett would help us to do outage at foreign plants so we could have similar experiences.  I always want to do Canada or Britian, for example.  I'd go if I could learn the language, especially in Britian.

[RDTroja]

     Most foreign nationals working as HP's made an effort to learn the language.  As long as they go home each season to a home plant in their nation it probably helps both nations.  In addition, they are legal aliens following the rules to get here.  It is those here illegally that hurt our economy.  The job of an HP is both the easiest and the hardest jobs, depending on your assignment.  I wish Barlett would help us to do outage at foreign plants so we could have similar experiences.  I always want to do Canada or Britian, for example.  I'd go if I could learn the language, especially in Britian.

British is a fairly hard language to learn.

Back during the Clinton Administration, John Cleese said "There are three things about the English that make us superior to Americans: 1) We speak English; 2) When we hold a World Championship we actually invite other countries to participate; 3) When you meet our Head of State you only have to get down on one knee."

Naturally, it was the first reason ("We speak English") that makes the quote pertinent but I had to throw in the rest. Not only have most of the 'import' techs learned English (not always 'American') but most of them have a work ethic that makes them good techs. One of them is about the best tech I have ever met. We had a very good time with him and American slang... when someone once asked him 'Are you pulling my leg' he got a very concerned look on his face and quickly denied ever touching the other guy.

[Eric_Bartlett]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about as it actually costs said company more to bring in and utilize foreign nationals than it does Americans.  The reason they do so is to ensure they meet their contractual obligations to staff a contract.  Once those individuals come in and work at a site they are then normally the first to be requested back by a site due to their work ethic and job skills.  So it does not add to the bottom line other than ensuring that the contractual obligations are met, thus ensuring the ability to maintain a contract for future billings.   

[Marlin]

British is a fairly hard language to learn.

I had no problem understanding most people I talked to in Britain or Scotland when I was there but accents in some of the regions/cities were impossible.

But then I have had a hard time in some areas of the USA.  (Ya'll n't frum round ere? er ya!)  (then there is SloGlo  )



(we need a Hillbilly/Banjo emoticon)

[btkeele]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

Having worked with and Supervised many of these guys, I must say I am impressed with their work ethic and professionalism.  I see these traits rubbing off on some of the American workers (not all sadly).  I look forward to
having them work for and with me again soon. 
The only technicians that should feel their opportunities are fewer because of these few guys are the ones who usually are not welcomed back to sites anyway. 

signed:  El Jeffe (inside joke)

[germanjawcracker]

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about as it actually costs said company more to bring in and utilize foreign nationals than it does Americans.  The reason they do so is to ensure they meet their contractual obligations to staff a contract.  Once those individuals come in and work at a site they are then normally the first to be requested back by a site due to their work ethic and job skills.  So it does not add to the bottom line other than ensuring that the contractual obligations are met, thus ensuring the ability to maintain a contract for future billings.   

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

[Content1]

I did a little checking at some of the DZAtlantic sites.  Pay started at $29 non-returnee, $31 returnee at Pilgrim for example.  Why are they paying more?  I also noticed at sites where both Bartlett and DZ have contracts the pay is the same.  I think, however, to be fair there are Bartlett sites also paying more, so it may be a case of supply and demand and it depends on what is the most important to you.  A place paying $29 verses $26 is only around 10% apart, and often if they pay more there may be drawbacks in the higher paying place that makes it harder to fill.  The thing Sr. HP's have going for us we are decreasing in number, mainly due to age and they and not training enough juniors to replace up if new plants ever open up.  That is a question that remains to be seen.  The free market can be both a blessing and a curse.

[JPK24]

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

AMEN!!

[loki]

Why would Bartlett pay more for internationals instead of offering more to the horses that have pulled the wagon for decades? Could the interest be in diluting the supply of techs cementing bartletts position of always being the lowest paying option?

[Eric_Bartlett]

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

AMEN!!

Why would Bartlett pay more for internationals instead of offering more to the horses that have pulled the wagon for decades? Could the interest be in diluting the supply of techs cementing bartletts position of always being the lowest paying option?

And more Mensa candidates come to the table...I don't know how many times I have to spell this out but I will go ahead and do it once again - It does us no good to pay lower than our competition or "lowball" bids as you say.  Those sites that pay well staff well, those that don't pay, well...don't staff.  

Companies makes more money per hour per tech off of a $30/hr pay rate than they do a $26/hr pay rate - the formula is simple the more you pay, the more you can bill.  For example, and I'll use little numbers so as not to confuse you, say markup is 20% on a $10/hr payrate - this means a company can bill $12/hr.  Now say the fixed overhead is 1/hr (this will include non billable support salaries, insurance, unemployment, and so on and so forth), + The $10/hr that goes to the tech that leaves the company with a gross profit of $1/hr.  Now take a $15/hr payrate at 20% markup and you end up with $18/hr, subtract the fixed overhead of 1/hr and the 15/hr that goes to the tech and you are looking at $2/hr gross profit.  

Now for the second part of my rebuttal to an ignorant statement.  The more I can pay the easier it is to staff, the easier it is to staff the more likely I staff 100% or thereabouts thus ensuring my contracts renewal.  On top of that the more I can pay the better off the worker is and the better off a worker is the more likely they stay in the business.  If techs don't stay in the business I cant staff, thus undermining my ability to retain contracts and stay in business.  

Now as far as BNI being the death of the RP industry goes, wow being a little over dramatic and once again making an Einsteinian statement.  The Commercial RP industry took it's hit when deregulation hit cutting outages from 90-120 days down to 25-35 days.   There is a reason as to why BNI is still here when the other 1/2 dozen to dozen RP vendors are not.  We were able to champion higher rates and better compensation packages than the competition and do it legally and responsably thus enabling us to maintain and grow our work force and staff our contracts.  No other RP vendor to this day has been able to do what we have done, to the level we have done it.

Now you may find a job with the competition that pays more than a job with BNI, but I'll make you a bet I can turn around and show you a job with us that pays more than what they pay.  To me if you aren't being offered the higher paying jobs with us, it is more a reflection on you than us.

I've said my piece, believe what you will.   To all of those that already understood what I stated I apologize for the rant, for those of you that did not I hope I was able to shed some light on how things really work, and for those that just don't get it or refuse to see the truth, I wish you the best of luck surviving whatever Apocalypse you think is coming down on mankind.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and may you all have a productive and prosperous new year.

Eric

[Old HP]

Once again the industry formula:  Pay them well and they will come.
                                                  Treat them well and they will come back.

If you don't like the pay rate at a site or specific utility, then don't work there.
It has worked well for me for many decades and with many different HP companies.

                                                Happy Holidays to All,

                                                               Old HP

[BetaAnt]

1. It ain't BNI's fault that wages are falling or stagnating. The CLIENT sets those rates and BNI gets 15-20% markup. 
2. Corporate infrastructure is so budget tight. Careers are made by saving that $1 or $0.10. Careers end with falling short on that year end dividend by the same
    dime.
    HPs are one of the fall guys. Just ask any worker, 'How much work do HPs do?' - ans. 'Nuthin'. 
    Corporate types follow the stereotypes and shortchange the HP dept.
    Not enough HPs to cover the jobs, it's the RPMs fault for not allocating necessary resources. Not enough instruments, damn HP techs keep breaking our 40 yr. old
    meters.
    All I have ever heard is 'HP HOLDUP!!!!'. Never have I heard of a work group 'holdup' due to improper planning, scheduling or screw-up. 
    The DOE had one thing right about billing. A project or work group is directly billed for ALL the HP's time (waiting, wasted, actual, and, most important, paperwork).
    Another trick is to bill the project for meter use and sample analysis. This would be an excellent way for HP Depts. to save their budgets and actually become a
    money maker instead of a money hole.
3. HPs used to be THE Work Control group. That changed when HP was removed from QA/QC and given to operations. Operations (at some plants) can cause an
    accident or repeated spills (that is why end of outage venting is called 'fill and spill') that HP and decon have to recover. OOPSerations is rarely held accountable
    for repeated mistakes and corporate turns a blind eye since operations make the turbines turn.
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

[jkj]

1. It ain't BNI's fault that wages are falling or stagnating. The CLIENT sets those rates and BNI gets 15-20% markup. 
2. Corporate infrastructure is so budget tight. Careers are made by saving that $1 or $0.10. Careers end with falling short on that year end dividend by the same
    dime.
    HPs are one of the fall guys. Just ask any worker, 'How much work do HPs do?' - ans. 'Nuthin'. 
    Corporate types follow the stereotypes and shortchange the HP dept.
    Not enough HPs to cover the jobs, it's the RPMs fault for not allocating necessary resources. Not enough instruments, damn HP techs keep breaking our 40 yr. old
    meters.
    All I have ever heard is 'HP HOLDUP!!!!'. Never have I heard of a work group 'holdup' due to improper planning, scheduling or screw-up. 
    The DOE had one thing right about billing. A project or work group is directly billed for ALL the HP's time (waiting, wasted, actual, and, most important, paperwork).
    Another trick is to bill the project for meter use and sample analysis. This would be an excellent way for HP Depts. to save their budgets and actually become a
    money maker instead of a money hole.
3. HPs used to be THE Work Control group. That changed when HP was removed from QA/QC and given to operations. Operations (at some plants) can cause an
    accident or repeated spills (that is why end of outage venting is called 'fill and spill') that HP and decon have to recover. OOPSerations is rarely held accountable
    for repeated mistakes and corporate turns a blind eye since operations make the turbines turn.
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

Good post! Basically, that above and a few others are the reason I can't wait to get the hell outta here.

[Content1]

 
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

     I have been to outages where I had 11 hours in containment, with only a break for lunch due to lack of techs. (North Anna)
At Ginna, I was lucky most of the time if I could get my 30 minute lunch, usually only 20 minutes, no other breaks. (Last outage)  We don't complain because you will get blowback comments like, "The is nothing like my last outage, worked 13 in containment).  I enjoy what I do, it is just they are bean counters who think overworking the remaining people is somehow "efficient."  I also had to "continuous coverage" on jobs with different groups at different elevations and really had to rely on good briefs and running up and downstairs to watch both, again due to shortages of tech, or lack of desire to hire enough.  I tend to think it is the latter as once an outage is manned, I have tried to get in and told there is no openings and when someone leaves due to illness I do not see them replaced.  I would venture to say the group of older techs are wiling to be abused, while I saw the younger ones outright challenged and dared management to discipline them for refusing to be overworked and violate OSHA rules.  This would not happen if they hired enough to do the job.

[snowman]

     I have been to outages where I had 11 hours in containment, with only a break for lunch due to lack of techs. (North Anna)
At Ginna, I was lucky most of the time if I could get my 30 minute lunch, usually only 20 minutes, no other breaks. (Last outage)  We don't complain .

These utilities violated every wage and hour law that exists. C'mon... a 20 minute break in a 12 hour shift?.

[BetaAnt]

An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

The squeaky wheel does not get oiled (that is for house techs), they (subcontract techs) get hammered. You cannot sue the utility. You have to sue the employer (i.e. temp agency). Don't expect to be rehired anytime soon by either utility or subcontractor.

You (the subcontract tech) are a disposable asset. If the utility over exposes you by accident, you can make the early layoff list. 

Just the observations of the nuclear world. 

BA 

[61nomad]

You (the subcontract tech) are a disposable asset. If the utility over exposes you by accident, you can make the early layoff list. 

?? Are not you the one that is carrying the meter??

Pay rates at some plants are going up. I think that TVA plants might be paying the most now in general. That one in Ala is paying pretty good. $35 and change $110 / day plus health and welfare

[tolstoy]

A link to cheer everyone up! Forget pay raises - I might be time to start thinking about your career..

http://energy.aol.com/2012/12/18/the-nation-s-nuclear-plants-are-nuked/?a_dgi=aolshare_linkedin&goback=%2Egde_46854_member_197658425

[hamsamich]

Interesting but old news.  SanO and Crystal are outliers.  Enviro-stupies have always been knocking at nuclear's door in sensitive areas.  Single unit low MW plants always had one foot out the door.  Many places need a large baseload, the ones that don't and aren't regulated just aren't good places to be running a nuke these days. Markets that don't appreciate a good nuclear baseload are shooting themselves in the foot I think.  Brownouts will teach them in some areas, but by then it might be too late if the nuke is already mothballed.