Are pay rates slowly dropping?

[Content1]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

[Rennhack]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

The wages are stagnant, and will remain that way for a while.  They will not go up in the short term.  The wages went up while the stimulus money was spent which soaked up all of the available techs.  The stimulus money is gone and so are all the extra jobs.  Lots of people looking for work.

However, you are picking sites that historically pay lower.  Progress, Duke and other southern sites with a low cost of living vs tech supply pool tend to pay less, and have no trouble staffing at the lower rates.  If your main goal is to get as much money from your hours worked, then that should be your first question to the recruiter.  Try "Which sites pay the best? That's where I want to go." vs "I want to go HERE, what does it pay?"

[Content1]

Ginna also pays $26 in the North.  It is not a matter then of a lower cost of living, as the motels which we pay for are as high or higer in the south, it is the worker willing to go to those site are willing to take less then.  If the wages are stagnant, other strategies may come into play then.   It may be wise to go for places that pay full, not capped travel, or higher per diem, or work for excelon at sites with 7 12's.  You work shorter outages but get higer pay.  When I went to Peachbottom I maxed out my 401K with Bartlett and put a lot of non-taxable wages into the retirement account.  So I guess it is best to work with what we have.  I have no preference on where I work.  I found that when I go to a new site that so many say it sucks, but I get there and it is about the same.  So I guess it is a case of survival with all the stimulus DOE sites coming into the pool.  I heard that many in that pool were hired off the street, maybe many of them will tire of the travel.  I guess supply and demand will work this one out in time. 

[Eric_Bartlett]

Wages haven't stagnated for the industry as a whole just some utilities.  There are sites out there, that in the past 3 years, that have raised their rates to more than $30/hr.  On the other hand there are sites out there that paid $25/hr 3 yrs ago and still do.  Most have gone up over the past couple of years, some by a little, some by more.  BNI, and I would think the other vendors as well, continually ask for increases in the compensation packages, but depending on a sites historical ability to staff and the time frame of it's shutdown along a bunch of other factors is whether we get them or not.
 A site shutting down in January or in May, know they can pay the industry average or a little less because of the opportune timing of their outage, likewise a site shutting down and staffing during Peak season knows they have to pay more to attract enough techs to ensure a successful outage.   Then there is always the "how do they treat me factor"  - I've seen techs flock to lower paying sites over higher paying sites just due to the fact that the site treated them real well and didn't over work them.   There are of course a myriad of other factors that vendors take into account when asking for an increase in their rates as there are also a myriad of factors that the client takes into consideration when setting rates.  

Eric

[atomicarcheologist]

I recently came from Ginna as a Sr RP Tech for $26/hour last fall.  For the Spring at Brunswick and at North Anna I am being quoted the same rate.  Has this always been their pay rate?  When I enquired about other places like Texas and some of the sites with DZAtlantic I was getting rates of $28 - 30 Hour.  It is my imagination or are our wage rates stagnant or slowly decreasing for us?  Or is it I am I simply choosing the wrong sites to apply at?

Go where the money is the best until your pocket is full enough to allow the luxury of going where you want.

[loki]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

[Content1]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

     Most foreign nationals working as HP's made an effort to learn the language.  As long as they go home each season to a home plant in their nation it probably helps both nations.  In addition, they are legal aliens following the rules to get here.  It is those here illegally that hurt our economy.  The job of an HP is both the easiest and the hardest jobs, depending on your assignment.  I wish Barlett would help us to do outage at foreign plants so we could have similar experiences.  I always want to do Canada or Britian, for example.  I'd go if I could learn the language, especially in Britian.

[RDTroja]

     Most foreign nationals working as HP's made an effort to learn the language.  As long as they go home each season to a home plant in their nation it probably helps both nations.  In addition, they are legal aliens following the rules to get here.  It is those here illegally that hurt our economy.  The job of an HP is both the easiest and the hardest jobs, depending on your assignment.  I wish Barlett would help us to do outage at foreign plants so we could have similar experiences.  I always want to do Canada or Britian, for example.  I'd go if I could learn the language, especially in Britian.

British is a fairly hard language to learn.

Back during the Clinton Administration, John Cleese said "There are three things about the English that make us superior to Americans: 1) We speak English; 2) When we hold a World Championship we actually invite other countries to participate; 3) When you meet our Head of State you only have to get down on one knee."

Naturally, it was the first reason ("We speak English") that makes the quote pertinent but I had to throw in the rest. Not only have most of the 'import' techs learned English (not always 'American') but most of them have a work ethic that makes them good techs. One of them is about the best tech I have ever met. We had a very good time with him and American slang... when someone once asked him 'Are you pulling my leg' he got a very concerned look on his face and quickly denied ever touching the other guy.

[Eric_Bartlett]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about as it actually costs said company more to bring in and utilize foreign nationals than it does Americans.  The reason they do so is to ensure they meet their contractual obligations to staff a contract.  Once those individuals come in and work at a site they are then normally the first to be requested back by a site due to their work ethic and job skills.  So it does not add to the bottom line other than ensuring that the contractual obligations are met, thus ensuring the ability to maintain a contract for future billings.   

[Marlin]

British is a fairly hard language to learn.

I had no problem understanding most people I talked to in Britain or Scotland when I was there but accents in some of the regions/cities were impossible.

But then I have had a hard time in some areas of the USA.  (Ya'll n't frum round ere? er ya!)  (then there is SloGlo  )



(we need a Hillbilly/Banjo emoticon)

[btkeele]

A certain company's policy of importing hps who's first language is not English may enhance their bottom line but it certainly doesn't aid in raising the workers who made themselves compensation

Having worked with and Supervised many of these guys, I must say I am impressed with their work ethic and professionalism.  I see these traits rubbing off on some of the American workers (not all sadly).  I look forward to
having them work for and with me again soon. 
The only technicians that should feel their opportunities are fewer because of these few guys are the ones who usually are not welcomed back to sites anyway. 

signed:  El Jeffe (inside joke)

[germanjawcracker]

Too bad you don't know what you are talking about as it actually costs said company more to bring in and utilize foreign nationals than it does Americans.  The reason they do so is to ensure they meet their contractual obligations to staff a contract.  Once those individuals come in and work at a site they are then normally the first to be requested back by a site due to their work ethic and job skills.  So it does not add to the bottom line other than ensuring that the contractual obligations are met, thus ensuring the ability to maintain a contract for future billings.   

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

[Content1]

I did a little checking at some of the DZAtlantic sites.  Pay started at $29 non-returnee, $31 returnee at Pilgrim for example.  Why are they paying more?  I also noticed at sites where both Bartlett and DZ have contracts the pay is the same.  I think, however, to be fair there are Bartlett sites also paying more, so it may be a case of supply and demand and it depends on what is the most important to you.  A place paying $29 verses $26 is only around 10% apart, and often if they pay more there may be drawbacks in the higher paying place that makes it harder to fill.  The thing Sr. HP's have going for us we are decreasing in number, mainly due to age and they and not training enough juniors to replace up if new plants ever open up.  That is a question that remains to be seen.  The free market can be both a blessing and a curse.

[JPK24]

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

AMEN!!

[loki]

Why would Bartlett pay more for internationals instead of offering more to the horses that have pulled the wagon for decades? Could the interest be in diluting the supply of techs cementing bartletts position of always being the lowest paying option?

[Eric_Bartlett]

If you would pay more you would not have to bring in foreign nationals. Bartlett has been the death of the RP industry with lowballing bids to get contracts for as many years as i can remember.

AMEN!!

Why would Bartlett pay more for internationals instead of offering more to the horses that have pulled the wagon for decades? Could the interest be in diluting the supply of techs cementing bartletts position of always being the lowest paying option?

And more Mensa candidates come to the table...I don't know how many times I have to spell this out but I will go ahead and do it once again - It does us no good to pay lower than our competition or "lowball" bids as you say.  Those sites that pay well staff well, those that don't pay, well...don't staff.  

Companies makes more money per hour per tech off of a $30/hr pay rate than they do a $26/hr pay rate - the formula is simple the more you pay, the more you can bill.  For example, and I'll use little numbers so as not to confuse you, say markup is 20% on a $10/hr payrate - this means a company can bill $12/hr.  Now say the fixed overhead is 1/hr (this will include non billable support salaries, insurance, unemployment, and so on and so forth), + The $10/hr that goes to the tech that leaves the company with a gross profit of $1/hr.  Now take a $15/hr payrate at 20% markup and you end up with $18/hr, subtract the fixed overhead of 1/hr and the 15/hr that goes to the tech and you are looking at $2/hr gross profit.  

Now for the second part of my rebuttal to an ignorant statement.  The more I can pay the easier it is to staff, the easier it is to staff the more likely I staff 100% or thereabouts thus ensuring my contracts renewal.  On top of that the more I can pay the better off the worker is and the better off a worker is the more likely they stay in the business.  If techs don't stay in the business I cant staff, thus undermining my ability to retain contracts and stay in business.  

Now as far as BNI being the death of the RP industry goes, wow being a little over dramatic and once again making an Einsteinian statement.  The Commercial RP industry took it's hit when deregulation hit cutting outages from 90-120 days down to 25-35 days.   There is a reason as to why BNI is still here when the other 1/2 dozen to dozen RP vendors are not.  We were able to champion higher rates and better compensation packages than the competition and do it legally and responsably thus enabling us to maintain and grow our work force and staff our contracts.  No other RP vendor to this day has been able to do what we have done, to the level we have done it.

Now you may find a job with the competition that pays more than a job with BNI, but I'll make you a bet I can turn around and show you a job with us that pays more than what they pay.  To me if you aren't being offered the higher paying jobs with us, it is more a reflection on you than us.

I've said my piece, believe what you will.   To all of those that already understood what I stated I apologize for the rant, for those of you that did not I hope I was able to shed some light on how things really work, and for those that just don't get it or refuse to see the truth, I wish you the best of luck surviving whatever Apocalypse you think is coming down on mankind.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and may you all have a productive and prosperous new year.

Eric

[Old HP]

Once again the industry formula:  Pay them well and they will come.
                                                  Treat them well and they will come back.

If you don't like the pay rate at a site or specific utility, then don't work there.
It has worked well for me for many decades and with many different HP companies.

                                                Happy Holidays to All,

                                                               Old HP

[BetaAnt]

1. It ain't BNI's fault that wages are falling or stagnating. The CLIENT sets those rates and BNI gets 15-20% markup. 
2. Corporate infrastructure is so budget tight. Careers are made by saving that $1 or $0.10. Careers end with falling short on that year end dividend by the same
    dime.
    HPs are one of the fall guys. Just ask any worker, 'How much work do HPs do?' - ans. 'Nuthin'. 
    Corporate types follow the stereotypes and shortchange the HP dept.
    Not enough HPs to cover the jobs, it's the RPMs fault for not allocating necessary resources. Not enough instruments, damn HP techs keep breaking our 40 yr. old
    meters.
    All I have ever heard is 'HP HOLDUP!!!!'. Never have I heard of a work group 'holdup' due to improper planning, scheduling or screw-up. 
    The DOE had one thing right about billing. A project or work group is directly billed for ALL the HP's time (waiting, wasted, actual, and, most important, paperwork).
    Another trick is to bill the project for meter use and sample analysis. This would be an excellent way for HP Depts. to save their budgets and actually become a
    money maker instead of a money hole.
3. HPs used to be THE Work Control group. That changed when HP was removed from QA/QC and given to operations. Operations (at some plants) can cause an
    accident or repeated spills (that is why end of outage venting is called 'fill and spill') that HP and decon have to recover. OOPSerations is rarely held accountable
    for repeated mistakes and corporate turns a blind eye since operations make the turbines turn.
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

[jkj]

1. It ain't BNI's fault that wages are falling or stagnating. The CLIENT sets those rates and BNI gets 15-20% markup. 
2. Corporate infrastructure is so budget tight. Careers are made by saving that $1 or $0.10. Careers end with falling short on that year end dividend by the same
    dime.
    HPs are one of the fall guys. Just ask any worker, 'How much work do HPs do?' - ans. 'Nuthin'. 
    Corporate types follow the stereotypes and shortchange the HP dept.
    Not enough HPs to cover the jobs, it's the RPMs fault for not allocating necessary resources. Not enough instruments, damn HP techs keep breaking our 40 yr. old
    meters.
    All I have ever heard is 'HP HOLDUP!!!!'. Never have I heard of a work group 'holdup' due to improper planning, scheduling or screw-up. 
    The DOE had one thing right about billing. A project or work group is directly billed for ALL the HP's time (waiting, wasted, actual, and, most important, paperwork).
    Another trick is to bill the project for meter use and sample analysis. This would be an excellent way for HP Depts. to save their budgets and actually become a
    money maker instead of a money hole.
3. HPs used to be THE Work Control group. That changed when HP was removed from QA/QC and given to operations. Operations (at some plants) can cause an
    accident or repeated spills (that is why end of outage venting is called 'fill and spill') that HP and decon have to recover. OOPSerations is rarely held accountable
    for repeated mistakes and corporate turns a blind eye since operations make the turbines turn.
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

Good post! Basically, that above and a few others are the reason I can't wait to get the hell outta here.

[Content1]

 
4. HPs are held responsible for worker dose and work area contamination. When you have a containment rover covering 5-6 jobs and an LHRA entry, stuff happens
   and the HP is held accountable (he should have asked for help - from the off-going rover -, should have stopped the job - yeah, right - or raise an ALARA or safety
   issue - now you are refusing to work??). HPs cannot win when the deck is stacked against them.

With shorter outages, the aging HP pool, and a pessimistic outlook at utility management, a lot of HPs are looking to become WalMart greeters or any other job outside of HP. It is no longer the money fountain it used to be. When utilities stop making shortcuts and applying band-aids to dying systems professional health physics technicians / nuclear monitoring technicians / radiological controls technicians, monitors, or inspectors will return. The in-house training does not teach detection and investigation. Resent graduates of a 'house' sponsored RP program were taught the basics and not the application. An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

Just my observations. 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, SHALOM, INSH'ALLAH, HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND FOR THE ATHEISTS, GOOD LUCK AND GET BACK TO WORK!
BA

     I have been to outages where I had 11 hours in containment, with only a break for lunch due to lack of techs. (North Anna)
At Ginna, I was lucky most of the time if I could get my 30 minute lunch, usually only 20 minutes, no other breaks. (Last outage)  We don't complain because you will get blowback comments like, "The is nothing like my last outage, worked 13 in containment).  I enjoy what I do, it is just they are bean counters who think overworking the remaining people is somehow "efficient."  I also had to "continuous coverage" on jobs with different groups at different elevations and really had to rely on good briefs and running up and downstairs to watch both, again due to shortages of tech, or lack of desire to hire enough.  I tend to think it is the latter as once an outage is manned, I have tried to get in and told there is no openings and when someone leaves due to illness I do not see them replaced.  I would venture to say the group of older techs are wiling to be abused, while I saw the younger ones outright challenged and dared management to discipline them for refusing to be overworked and violate OSHA rules.  This would not happen if they hired enough to do the job.

[snowman]

     I have been to outages where I had 11 hours in containment, with only a break for lunch due to lack of techs. (North Anna)
At Ginna, I was lucky most of the time if I could get my 30 minute lunch, usually only 20 minutes, no other breaks. (Last outage)  We don't complain .

These utilities violated every wage and hour law that exists. C'mon... a 20 minute break in a 12 hour shift?.

[BetaAnt]

An INPO Nuclear Standard is ' A questioning attitude is encouraged'. Good lip service but, it will get you fired or on the first layoff list. It is 'encouraged' not tolerated.

The squeaky wheel does not get oiled (that is for house techs), they (subcontract techs) get hammered. You cannot sue the utility. You have to sue the employer (i.e. temp agency). Don't expect to be rehired anytime soon by either utility or subcontractor.

You (the subcontract tech) are a disposable asset. If the utility over exposes you by accident, you can make the early layoff list. 

Just the observations of the nuclear world. 

BA 

[61nomad]

You (the subcontract tech) are a disposable asset. If the utility over exposes you by accident, you can make the early layoff list. 

?? Are not you the one that is carrying the meter??

Pay rates at some plants are going up. I think that TVA plants might be paying the most now in general. That one in Ala is paying pretty good. $35 and change $110 / day plus health and welfare

[tolstoy]

A link to cheer everyone up! Forget pay raises - I might be time to start thinking about your career..

http://energy.aol.com/2012/12/18/the-nation-s-nuclear-plants-are-nuked/?a_dgi=aolshare_linkedin&goback=%2Egde_46854_member_197658425

[hamsamich]

Interesting but old news.  SanO and Crystal are outliers.  Enviro-stupies have always been knocking at nuclear's door in sensitive areas.  Single unit low MW plants always had one foot out the door.  Many places need a large baseload, the ones that don't and aren't regulated just aren't good places to be running a nuke these days. Markets that don't appreciate a good nuclear baseload are shooting themselves in the foot I think.  Brownouts will teach them in some areas, but by then it might be too late if the nuke is already mothballed.

[gerald.rood]

Hello,
IMO - I believe Eric is correct in his analysis of the current situation.
Ineffective attempts to revive a struggling economy; to rekindle meaningful longterm solutions to financial growth; and internal pressures (now driven more by external conditions to reduce cost) within all commercial sectors are all a part of the current reality. 

More than ever, we need to suck it up and do our best to fully understand and contribute to the ever increasing industry standard goals that result in our client's success. 

Will you see the results of your effort in your next paycheck? Not likely.

However, those of us ("house" or contractor) that believe this is important are likely to continue to also have an opportunity to the next paycheck.
Best of all conditions?  Nope.
Regards, Gerry

[loki]

A stagnet or shrinking paycheck thanks largely to Bartlett's effort at saturating the market through bringing in imports. They are certainly not as productive as the old hands. The only one who would say so obviously has a substantial financial interest in the experiment . Maybe one could be found to replace Eric

[retired nuke]

A stagnet or shrinking paycheck thanks largely to Bartlett's effort at saturating the market through bringing in imports. They are certainly not as productive as the old hands. The only one who would say so obviously has a substantial financial interest in the experiment . Maybe one could be found to replace Eric

Nope - Bartlett isn't bringing in tons of imports. They are a minor ripple in the pool, always have been. Its about overall supply and demand. There are more techs vs the number of jobs, and while there are many great techs, it seems there are also many "warm bodies". The outages are getting shorter. And with deregulation and the price of natural gas driving down the electric market, the utilities aren't spending the money they used to.

RP is about the highest paying trade that has literally no secondary education requirement. Too many of the techs do not have the solid grounding in RP theory necessary to make sound protective decisions, they just do it the way they were taught without understanding why. Unfortunately, Sr pay gets you the mouth breather or the supertech...

[Content1]

RP is about the highest paying trade that has literally no secondary education requirement. Too many of the techs do not have the solid grounding in RP theory necessary to make sound protective decisions, they just do it the way they were taught without understanding why. Unfortunately, Sr pay gets you the mouth breather or the supertech...

     No secondary education?  I have a bachelor's degree and half of my degree's courses were general-education courses unrelated to any field.   They hardly make me a better tech.   I went through full oral boards at Rocky Flats and West Valley New York.  I went through six months of training at the Lawrence Livermore national Lab. HP training at McGuire was a three-week course with closed book testing.  I had an informal board at Peach Bottom.  I got my "Non Secondary" training in a six year stint with the Navy.  I feel you may overvalue college work, where all a college degree means you sat in a class and passed tests and persevered to graduate.
      Before every job, we go through training. With the short outages, to go from a junior to a senior can take eight years.  If during that eight years the utility only used the junior at the step off pad, that is the utilities' fault.  Just to go to a job you often fly across the country, pay up to $1000 out of your own pocket to travel, prepaid housing, before you receive a dime.  If there are techs out there with marginal training and experience, it is because of special "home boy"" relationships that are exceptions to the rule.  A super tech is in the eye of the beholder.   If the pay was much lower, there are other options career-wise that don't require the traveling.   I was a teacher and left for the higher pay. I have been to two years of law school and worked as a paralegal.  I left them all to become an HP for the money.  Cut our pay and the little brats or the winey clients become appealing again.

[loki]

Nope - Bartlett isn't bringing in tons of imports. They are a minor ripple in the pool, always have been. Its about overall supply and demand. There are more techs vs the number of jobs, and while there are many great techs, it seems there are also many "warm bodies". The outages are getting shorter. And with deregulation and the price of natural gas driving down the electric market, the utilities aren't spending the money they used to.

RP is about the highest paying trade that has literally no secondary education requirement. Too many of the techs do not have the solid grounding in RP theory necessary to make sound protective decisions, they just do it the way they were taught without understanding why. Unfortunately, Sr pay gets you the mouth breather or the supertech...

. That "ripple" is the camels nose into the tent. Imports cost us natives money

[Chimera]

RP is about the highest paying trade that has literally no secondary education requirement.

A trade with secondary education requirements?  By "secondary education" I'm assuming you mean college of one sort or another.  So, tell me, what are the secondary education requirements for the other trades, e.g., pipefitters, welders, laborers, operators, etc.?  Or are you now classifying an Engineer or a Lawyer as a "trade"?

[retired nuke]

The "skilled" trades have actual apprentiship programs, with training at the union hall, testing and mentoring by senior Journeymen. While it is not college, you cannot advance without it for the most part. That is secondary education. 
OPs is now pretty much looking for college degrees. You can be an AO without it, but you won't advance far in todays comeptetive work environment. College is secondary education.
RP has nothing. House has initial training, if you are already a Sr. Takes about 3 months. But you can become a Sr RP tech (over time) without a basic understanding of many RP functions. All ya gotta do is pass the test, and there are plenty of study guides out there that will teach you the answers.

[germanjawcracker]

It is a crying shame when Atlantic pays material handlers (forklift drivers) 30.00 an hr and Bartlett pays ANSI 3.1 SR RP's 28.00 in the Duke system. Something is bad wrong with this picture. I have said it all along, without the union, this will continue to happen.

[Chimera]

It is a crying shame when Atlantic pays material handlers (forklift drivers) 30.00 an hr and Bartlett pays ANSI 3.1 SR RP's 28.00 in the Duke system. Something is bad wrong with this picture. I have said it all along, without the union, this will continue to happen.

If you don't like the pay rate at a given location, don't go.  When the Utility starts having problems because they can't get enough Techs to show up, the pay rate goes up . . . as we've seen over and over again.  That doesn't take a Union.  It just takes some initiative and some determination.  Will the Union tell you to take the job for what is perceived as sub-par pay rates or will "they" stand by the Techs and help bargain for an increase?  Wait a minute . . . that's what Bartlett and the other job shops are already doing.  Okay, I guess I missed something.  Explain to me again why we "need" a union versus practicing our own selfish self-interest?

[retired nuke]

It is a crying shame when Atlantic pays material handlers (forklift drivers) 30.00 an hr and Bartlett pays ANSI 3.1 SR RP's 28.00 in the Duke system. Something is bad wrong with this picture. I have said it all along, without the union, this will continue to happen.

A material handler can get critical items across the site, safely, in the right place and time, with little more direction than a list or work order. In many states, driving a forklift actually requires a State license. OSHA requires documented training and an evaluation of skills. Forklift drivers seldom get perdiem.

An RP tech can hold up a project for a shift and does little to keep production on schedule. They are seen as a legally required impediment, and too many RP techs work at slowing things down. RP techs almost always get perdiem.

Don't like the pay - don't go there. Think you can keep up with the material handlers? Put in for their job, and see if you can qualify...

[germanjawcracker]

I did and i get 2.00 an hr more. Duke gives a forklift class for free. Why bother with RP when i can sit and ride and no more NUF tests.

[germanjawcracker]

If you don't like the pay rate at a given location, don't go.  When the Utility starts having problems because they can't get enough Techs to show up, the pay rate goes up . . . as we've seen over and over again.  That doesn't take a Union.  It just takes some initiative and some determination.  Will the Union tell you to take the job for what is perceived as sub-par pay rates or will "they" stand by the Techs and help bargain for an increase?  Wait a minute . . . that's what Bartlett and the other job shops are already doing.  Okay, I guess I missed something.  Explain to me again why we "need" a union versus practicing our own selfish self-interest?

Duke has been short RP'sfor the last few years and nothing changes, cover more jobs with intermittent coverage.

[BetaAnt]

Just waiting for the accident/incident caused by inadequate RP coverage.  

But wait. The utility will discover it is the fault of the 'sacrificial' RP tech and life goes on.  

Until the regulators (NRC, DOE or EPA) step in and require specific RP job coverage requirements, the corporate bean-counters will continue to short-change and cutback on Radiation Protection.  

Up until deregulation, a medical staff was maintained at most sites. Now all ERO people are trained in first aid and medical help is provided by the ambulance EMTs.  

YOU ARE A FREE AGENT AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE LOW PAY RATES!

Find another line of work. I understand the medical field will be picking up (nursing aids). Otherwise, become a forklift driver and join the union @ $30/hr.  

Now ST*U and get over it.

BA  

[germanjawcracker]

Just waiting for the accident/incident caused by inadequate RP coverage.  

But wait. The utility will discover it is the fault of the 'sacrificial' RP tech and life goes on.  

Until the regulators (NRC, DOE or EPA) step in and require specific RP job coverage requirements, the corporate bean-counters will continue to short-change and cutback on Radiation Protection.  

Up until deregulation, a medical staff was maintained at most sites. Now all ERO people are trained in first aid and medical help is provided by the ambulance EMTs.  

YOU ARE A FREE AGENT AND YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THE LOW PAY RATES!

Find another line of work. I understand the medical field will be picking up (nursing aids). Otherwise, become a forklift driver and join the union @ $30/hr.  

Now ST*U and get over it.

No unions in SC and i have new tires on my forklift.

[BetaAnt]

QUIT BLAMING BARTLETT. THE CLIENT SETS THE RATE! 

Bartlett has overhead costs and skims ~15% off the top of your rate. 
(WARNING MATH EXAMPLE AHEAD) 

WinoNuclear is having an outage. BNI bids to provide support for the outage along with other companies.
The RP techs are paid $30/hr and the utility is billed at $45/hr. (not including PD) 
The RP techs are paid $45/hr for overtime and the utility is billed $45/hr.
Based on an outage workweek the RP tech grosses $2640. 
BNI grosses $3240, a net of $600/week. 
Out of this $600/week-technician, BNI must pay multiple support people (office workers and support staff) and business development costs.   

As with any economy, it comes down to supply and demand. As long as the utilities overwork the RP techs, mistakes will be made eventually. When enough mistakes are made or one MAJOR screw-up occurs, call in the lawyers and let the class actions begin. 

It will occur. It is just a matter when. 

Future WalMart greeter,

BA 

[Marlin]

Future WalMart greeter,

BA  

  To stay on topic at least a little, pay scale has been declining for a long time but then so has the responsibility of the RadTech. If you are hired as an ANSI qualified tech (RadTechs fit the generic technician category) the standard is just not that high. The industry has come from very little direction for a RadTech to the heavily programmatic environment today. I remember an outage done with the standard six RWPs that did little but account for exposure with a direction to contact the area RadTech for HP controls, now every requirement is spelled out with little or no latitude for the technician covering the job.

 

  HouseDad put it very well.

The "skilled" trades have actual apprentiship programs, with training at the union hall, testing and mentoring by senior Journeymen. While it is not college, you cannot advance without it for the most part. That is secondary education.  
OPs is now pretty much looking for college degrees. You can be an AO without it, but you won't advance far in todays comeptetive work environment. College is secondary education.
RP has nothing. House has initial training, if you are already a Sr. Takes about 3 months. But you can become a Sr RP tech (over time) without a basic understanding of many RP functions. All ya gotta do is pass the test, and there are plenty of study guides out there that will teach you the answers.

[Rennhack]

QUIT BLAMING BARTLETT. THE CLIENT SETS THE RATE! 

Bartlett has overhead costs and skims ~15% off the top of your rate. 
(WARNING MATH EXAMPLE AHEAD) 

WinoNuclear is having an outage. BNI bids to provide support for the outage along with other companies.
The RP techs are paid $30/hr and the utility is billed at $45/hr. (not including PD) 
The RP techs are paid $45/hr for overtime and the utility is billed $45/hr.
Based on an outage workweek the RP tech grosses $2640. 
BNI grosses $3240, a net of $600/week. 
Out of this $600/week-technician, BNI must pay multiple support people (office workers and support staff) and business development costs.   

You have the right idea, but are missing some key points that I have mentioned before.  As a small business owner myself, I have to pay myself payroll, as well as others.

Lets say your pay rate is $30/hr. (Which is set by the utility, not the vendor)
There is around 30% in additional costs directly related to that pay rate (Uncle Sam related expenses), and about 10% for company overhead, for a total of 40% multiplier required to staff a position with no profit.  An additional 10% profit is common.  Some times the profit is 5%, depends how bad they want to win.  So you are talking about $1.5/hr profit on your $30/hr pay.  Maybe $3/hr profit on a "fat" contract.

Lets say you work for a vendor at a site for a year.  The vendor pays you for 10 vacation days and 11 holidays.  That means the vendor can only bill for 1912 hours, but has to pay you for 2080 hours.  Or $62,400 in payable wages, but only $57,400 in billable wages.  There is FICA that the employer pays in addition to what you pay, of 6.2%.  They pay an additional 1.5% to medicare.  They have to pay into the state unemployment tax/insurance, then they have to pay Federal unemployment tax/insurance.  The worst other than FICA, is workers comp, which can be 5%, or as much as 20% for higher risk job titles.. like anything with nuclear or radiation in the title.  Then there is General Liability insurance which starts at 2%.  Then you add in payroll processing, loan on payroll (you know, cause they pay you NOW, but don't get paid by the client for 90 days.  Add in PPE and drug tests.  Some times even medical insurance and 401k match... but lets be realistic.

So:

9% for Holidays/vacation.
6.2% FICA
1.5% Medicare
1.3% Federal/State Unemployment
10% Workers Comp
2% General Liability
2% Payroll Processing/Loan
32% Sub Total

So, at 32% 'Direct Costs', they are taking a LOSS, because none of that includes overhead of %12%.  44% would be break even, anything above that is profit.  The costs vary a little from company to company, but those numbers are a good thumb rule.  Some job titles have higher Workers Comp rates, it varies on the job title, the state, and your carrier.  Other numbers could get better like not having to finance payroll, and slightly lower liability insurance.  The big numbers are very consistent though.  The larger companies may get a small advantage over the small companies on factoring payroll or insurance, but they have to make up for it with a larger staff/overhead, so the bottom line is about the same.

$30.00/hr pay rate
$9.60 in Direct costs
$3.60 Overhead
$3.00/hr profit
$46.20 billing rate.

You had $30 and $45 which sounds reasonable, but $3/hr * 72 hrs during an outage week is only $216/wk profit. Even if you counted 'overhead' as profit, which you cant, it would only be an additional $260 a week for overhead.  You know, those recruiters, people in payroll, and managers.  There cost is real, not profit.


So, on a 40 hr week, the vendor has to pay out of pocket $1200 to you, $384 in direct costs, $144 in overhead a week NOW ($1,728) to bill the client $1,848 in 90 days to get $120 in profit.  I don't know about you, but I could make a better ROI in other ways with less headache. 

[hamsamich]

Specialization is one issue that probably has a larger effect on pay than we realize.  An RP is a very specialized job.  There isn't much call in the world for an RP tech vs. say a welder.  And it is a strange and tortuous path to become an RP.  Can be good and bad.  The good is when there is a larger call for RP than techs available, then the pay could go up.  Also people might get overworked due to a shortage, not enough RP, forces RP techs out who don't want to deal with that, pay could go up even more.  The bad is we are specialized.  Can't really do much else that makes good money unless happenstance.  A less specialized trade could relatively more quickly change to something else, like a welder might have started out as an ironworker and he can go back to that maybe could branch into something else.  In a way some of us are stuck for better or for worse unless you want to endure more than an average amount of pain to try something else.

[BetaAnt]

@ Rennhack... It was a ballpark figure that simplest minds could wrap around. 

TMI can give you a headache when it come to payroll and business expense paperwork. 

It has been over 20 yrs since I submitted my last bid to a client and I do not have my spread(cheat)sheet in front of me. 

All in all, this serves as one example as to why rates are stagnant or going down.

Eric ain't low-balling, it's the corporate bean counters. Why else would there be a massive holiday layoff before before the end of an outage? It saves money on expenses and can be claimed as a quarterly savings (translation - Christmas bonus for the corporation). 

McDonalds is hiring in South Dakota, starting at $17/hr. 'Do you want fries with that?'

Future WalMart greeter (taking lessons from Walter),

BA 

[Content1]

Specialization is one issue that probably has a larger effect on pay than we realize.  An RP is a very specialized job.  There isn't much call in the world for an RP tech vs. say a welder.  And it is a strange and tortuous path to become an RP.  Can be good and bad.  The good is when there is a larger call for RP than techs available, then the pay could go up.  Also people might get overworked due to a shortage, not enough RP, forces RP techs out who don't want to deal with that, pay could go up even more.  The bad is we are specialized.  Can't really do much else that makes good money unless happenstance.  A less specialized trade could relatively more quickly change to something else, like a welder might have started out as an ironworker and he can go back to that maybe could branch into something else.  In a way some of us are stuck for better or for worse unless you want to endure more than an average amount of pain to try something else.

Specialization? I say, to the contrary, that most RP's out there are very generalized in their training. There are very few RPs to join the ranks that only have an RP school or the Navy with no further training. I have a BA in education, two years of law school, one year of electronic engineering schooling, Navy nuclear training, and the year of teacher credentialing. These other jobs I left for the money that RPs get paid. I can also go into government jobs. Why don't I work them now in the off-season? Because we elect to take some time off after working three months of 12-hour days. If we save our money properly we can live well enough until we have to leave to do outages.  We are not specialized; that the only thing that we can do is work as an RP, the other choices simply pay less.    If the pay keeps dropping in relation to other choices like the forklift driver, I may become a forklift driver.
There are a lot of responsibilities you take on as an RP is compared to a forklift driver. If they choose to keep paying RP is less and less you'll simply have less RPs. The problem for the utility is with the departure of experience RPs, and the vacuum filled with less trained; we will have more mistakes and larger fines. I can give a comparison in real life like what happened during World War II. The first six months of the war the Japanese had experienced pilots, and it seems they couldn't be beat.  When more the experienced pilots left the field (in this case due to death) the newer pilots couldn't compete with the well-trained Americans.
If the bean counters continue to overwork experience techs with under manning of personnel, they will get the result of having to deal with less generally trained techs for the less trained "specialized" techs that do not "think outside the box" with other life experiences brought in from other fields. I found some of the best ideas I've seen the field came from techs from off-site locations that brought in new ideas to management who would listen.  When these "generally trained" techs are gone, you'll have to start to deal with problems they never imagined you would be facing.
Finally, the "generalized tech" has learned to draw from his other experiences and think on his feet when faced with problems not covered by procedure that require careful reasoning to solve. It has been said the submarine SSN593 the Thresher went down, it was partially due to people not thinking for the unexpected situation when their emergency blow lines froze up when they tried to surface. You need people that have learned how to "think" in response to a situation with quick analysis and good logic.  You can't train someone to handle every situation since many have never been encountered.

[Content1]

You have the right idea, but are missing some key points that I have mentioned before.  As a small business owner myself, I have to pay myself payroll, as well as others.

Lets say your pay rate is $30/hr. (Which is set by the utility, not the vendor)
There is around 30% in additional costs directly related to that pay rate (Uncle Sam related expenses), and about 10% for company overhead, for a total of 40% multiplier required to staff a position with no profit.  An additional 10% profit is common.  Some times the profit is 5%, depends how bad they want to win.  So you are talking about $1.5/hr profit on your $30/hr pay.  Maybe $3/hr profit on a "fat" contract.

Lets say you work for a vendor at a site for a year.  The vendor pays you for 10 vacation days and 11 holidays.  That means the vendor can only bill for 1912 hours, but has to pay you for 2080 hours.  Or $62,400 in payable wages, but only $57,400 in billable wages.  There is FICA that the employer pays in addition to what you pay, of 6.2%.  They pay an additional 1.5% to medicare.  They have to pay into the state unemployment tax/insurance, then they have to pay Federal unemployment tax/insurance.  The worst other than FICA, is workers comp, which can be 5%, or as much as 20% for higher risk job titles.. like anything with nuclear or radiation in the title.  Then there is General Liability insurance which starts at 2%.  Then you add in payroll processing, loan on payroll (you know, cause they pay you NOW, but don't get paid by the client for 90 days.  Add in PPE and drug tests.  Some times even medical insurance and 401k match... but lets be realistic.

So:

9% for Holidays/vacation.
6.2% FICA
1.5% Medicare
1.3% Federal/State Unemployment
10% Workers Comp
2% General Liability
2% Payroll Processing/Loan
32% Sub Total

So, at 32% 'Direct Costs', they are taking a LOSS, because none of that includes overhead of %12%.  44% would be break even, anything above that is profit.  The costs vary a little from company to company, but those numbers are a good thumb rule.  Some job titles have higher Workers Comp rates, it varies on the job title, the state, and your carrier.  Other numbers could get better like not having to finance payroll, and slightly lower liability insurance.  The big numbers are very consistent though.  The larger companies may get a small advantage over the small companies on factoring payroll or insurance, but they have to make up for it with a larger staff/overhead, so the bottom line is about the same.

$30.00/hr pay rate
$9.60 in Direct costs
$3.60 Overhead
$3.00/hr profit
$46.20 billing rate.

You had $30 and $45 which sounds reasonable, but $3/hr * 72 hrs during an outage week is only $216/wk profit. Even if you counted 'overhead' as profit, which you cant, it would only be an additional $260 a week for overhead.  You know, those recruiters, people in payroll, and managers.  There cost is real, not profit.


So, on a 40 hr week, the vendor has to pay out of pocket $1200 to you, $384 in direct costs, $144 in overhead a week NOW ($1,728) to bill the client $1,848 in 90 days to get $120 in profit.  I don't know about you, but I could make a better ROI in other ways with less headache. 

All you have said is quite true, running a business takes careful budgeting and planning.  But being a tech is equally daunting task and if the pay drops to the point of non-profitability, we can't afford to stay.  I remember one season in 2009 at North Anna and Surry the outages were 2 and 2 1/2 weeks;  I couldn't afford to stay and I went DOE for three years before I checked out the situation and came back.

[GLW]

.....Navy nuclear training,......

Which Navy nuke school class and section and which rating did you graduate in?

Just trying to get a perspective on your perspective,...

[Content1]

Which Navy nuke school class and section and which rating did you graduate in?

Just trying to get a perspective on your perspective,...

I went the Navy in 1974 as a Nuclear Machinist Mate.  That is the majority of what the Navy needed.  I actually aced the test for the ET, but they did not need many ET's. I attended Mare Island NPS to Idaho Falls Enteprise Prototype, then served on fast attack submarines.

[SloGlo]

McDonalds is hiring in South Dakota, starting at $17/hr. 'Do you want fries with that?'

they paying dee-um?  eye kin speek the language.   

[Chimera]

I have a BA in education, two years of law school, one year of electronic engineering schooling, Navy nuclear training, and the year of teacher credentialing. These other jobs I left for the money that RPs get paid.

Jobs?  All you show is a predilection for being a professional student.  When you classed up at MINSY, what was your class number?

[hamsamich]

I mean RP the job is very specialized.  Not each individual doing it.  There isn't much that borders on the job RP.  So if a guy does RP for 10 years, he isn't getting much experience doing anything related to anything else.  I don't think you get what I am trying to say.  Sure alot of guys doing rp can do other stuff, that is a whole other side to it.  But the job itself, not the person.

[Content1]

I mean RP the job is very specialized.  Not each individual doing it.  There isn't much that borders on the job RP.  So if a guy does RP for 10 years, he isn't getting much experience doing anything related to anything else.  I don't think you get what I am trying to say.  Sure alot of guys doing rp can do other stuff, that is a whole other side to it.  But the job itself, not the person.

The job itself is not uniform, that is, the task of an RP varies which usually inludes duties such as job support, taking and documenting surveys, setting up and taking down contamination areas and decontamination of personnel and equipment.  Within this job you could be outside doing shipping, or in containment roving.  When there are things like spills or unplanned discovery of high radiation areas, the experience of the tech comes in.  I say the tech is not a job of just swinging meters, but a varied job.  You make the job and experiences from it sound like a sentence, not a job of choice due to the pay.  If the pay was cut in half, how many techs would show up for work?  If we are so condemned by our training and unable to perform other tasks, we would be stuck no matter what the pay was.  We are not.  I hope a tech who spends 10 years on the job checked out and perfomed other options in their life beyond being a tech.

[hamsamich]

Think relative to other jobs, not condemned.  I'm not saying you are trapped in a cage as an RP tech.  Just more specialized than any other job I can think of that doesn't require a degree.  I guess this is one of those times I can't tell you what I mean without speaking it.  Compared to other jobs, relative, comparitive.  Don't take offense, just an observation in comparison to many other jobs.

[Content1]

Jobs?  All you show is a predilection for being a professional student.  When you classed up at MINSY, what was your class number?

As I recall, it was 7506.  I would rather be seeking further education rather than staying ignorant of other career opportunities.  You never know what may change in the market and it pays to keep current.  For example, all my education in biology and computer science from college is archaic and useless as compared to what is taught in high school today.  Many people are in school training for jobs that do not exist yet.  To not be trapped as a tech you must keep up to date with the current job market.  If a series of underpaid and poorly trained techs performed enough errors, all the plants could be shut down and other skills will come in handy to survive in another field.  Look at San Onofre.  There are no outage jobs there now due to the poor worksmanship in the S/G tubes when it was outsourced.

[Content1]

Think relative to other jobs, not condemned.  I'm not saying you are trapped in a cage as an RP tech.  Just more specialized than any other job I can think of that doesn't require a degree.  I guess this is one of those times I can't tell you what I mean without speaking it.  Compared to other jobs, relative, comparitive.  Don't take offense, just an observation in comparison to many other jobs.

No offense taken, I have a high opinion of techs I have worked with and varied was their skill and experience.  We were united in one aspect.  We are not there for our love of nuclear power plants, traveling, or the excitement of the job.  We were there to do a good job and be paid well doing it.  In other careers, say a teacher, you better like the little kids or don't be there.  You can be something else entirely on your off time and use your training and intellect just for outage work.  We are kind of like the builder of the Pyramids.  They were farmers until the floods came, then they worked on the Pyramids until it receded.  There may come a day with outages so short you will have an off season job too.

[HydroDave63]

 There are no outage jobs there now due to the poor worksmanship in the S/G tubes when it was outsourced.

Unless you've got some eddy current data or lots of S/G internals images to back that up, you should be thankful MHI isn't litigious. BTW, where else could those S/Gs have been procured at the needed time?

[Content1]

Unless you've got some eddy current data or lots of S/G internals images to back that up, you should be thankful MHI isn't litigious. BTW, where else could those S/Gs have been procured at the needed time?

How about in America by Americans, like with Babcock and Wilcox, Westinghouse or General Electric.  It was outsouced because it was probably cheaper, but being shutdown for a year is expensive too.  America can produce these items again and we, as a nation, need the jobs.  If it takes re-engineerin to get us to do it again, so be it.

[Content1]

Unless you've got some eddy current data or lots of S/G internals images to back that up, you should be thankful MHI isn't litigious.

I don't need to worry about a lawsuit from MHI, as truth is a complete defense in Libel.  All I do know San Onofre was they bought a steam generator that leaked and they made it.  If a product does not do what it was designed to do (While not releasing contamination into the environment) and they operated it as designed, the manufacturer is liable, and I hope San Onofre sues them for the lost power production to boot.

[GLW]

How about in America by Americans, like with Babcock and Wilcox, Westinghouse or General Electric.  It was outsouced because it was probably cheaper, but being shutdown for a year is expensive too.  America can produce these items again and we, as a nation, need the jobs.  If it takes re-engineerin to get us to do it again, so be it.

Actually I think it's lack of infrastructure, quality, and interest,...

You know, the jobs Americans won't do anymore?!?!?!?

Kids in the American school system today are not inspired to be excellent heavy industries workers, nor are skilled heavy industries workers portrayed in those schools as people to be respected for their skills, workmanship, work ethic or product,...

They are not green jobs, not lawyers like the POTUS usually is, not doctors, not thespians, not artists, not professors, not bourgeoisie,...

Those are jobs good enough for immigrants, but not those born to the manor that is America,...

Same goes for RP jobs, luckily it's not easy for immigrants to get the experience or the security clearance or you would get outsourced too, and very few outside your circle of co-commiserants would care very much that your antiquated, non-green way of life has gone the way of the buggy whip,...

Not nice, but it's the truth,...

The "problem" as some like to see it, is not any staff augmentation company,...

Quite the contrary, I can just imagine some of the guys and gals I've worked with left to their own devices to seek out a contract, negotiate a proposal, and sign the deal,...

Much easier to wait by the phone and say "Yup, I'll be there!".,...

Or when the bank balance gets below threshold "X", pick up the phone, dial "800-XXX-XXXX" and ask "Got something for me?",...

I'm going to tell you something you should already know about the RP business, if you limit yourself to showing up, passing the exams and the prac facs, doing a good job on the refuel floor, and not busting out of your commitment early for greener pastures then what you are is reliable staff augmentation material,...

And that's okay, it's good to be known for being reliable,...

And, if you had a union, that might be most of all you need for job security, add seniority to that mix and you gain maximum paid hours through the year at the choicest places through the year to reliably earn that coin,...

But that's not how it is,...

If you perceive your pay rate is stagnant, it's probably because your skillset is stagnant,...

But, if you are at a good comfort zone, stagnant is okay as long as there is a market for it, just like buggy whips,...

You said it yourself:

.....For example, all my education in biology and computer science from college is archaic and useless as compared to what is taught in high school today.....

The difficulty with your posts Content is that you kind of argue with yourself on several sides of an issue, like this one,...

I know that is an erudite affectation which always seems to impress 67% of the female population in any university dormitory but it's annoying in here, probably because of all the type A personalities who just want to stop talking and do something already,...

Enjoy the Day!!!! (creds to my friend MS for that salutation),...

[Content1]

Actually I think it's lack of infrastructure, quality, and interest,...

If you perceive your pay rate is stagnant, it's probably because your skillset is stagnant,...

But, if you are at a good comfort zone, stagnant is okay as long as there is a market for it, just like buggy whips,...

You said it yourself:

The difficulty with your posts Content is that you kind of argue with yourself on several sides of an issue, like this one,...

I know that is an erudite affectation which always seems to impress 67% of the female population in any university dormitory but it's annoying in here, probably because of all the type A personalities who just want to stop talking and do something already,...

Enjoy the Day!!!! (creds to my friend MS for that salutation),...

I guess I have a strong power of thought, for you, and the other techs are in the same "stagnant skills" as I am, so I guess we all need to stop talking and do something as you say.  Some things do end by natural causes as with me.  I have never been to a dorm, but I guess I missed somethink back in my college days . . . and probably before you were born.

[hamsamich]

Get less emotional about being an RP tech.  It is a job with many pros and cons.  If you drop the emotion and just consider the facts (pros and cons), you can see more clearly and possibly form more accurate opinions.  RP is a way for me to pay my bills and also choose two different lifestyles (traveler or house).  I like doing it but most of us don't do this job because we love it, we need the money.

[SloGlo]

not noing about pay rates dropping, but take home pay just took a 2% hit.  sew, yinz better buckle up caws it's going to bee a ruff ride four a wile.

[GLW]

I guess I have a strong power of thought, for you, and the other techs are in the same "stagnant skills" as I am, so I guess we all need to stop talking and do something as you say.  Some things do end by natural causes as with me.  I have never been to a dorm, but I guess I missed somethink back in my college days . . . and probably before you were born.

Oh my,....well,...all I can say to that is that I have yet to pin my aspirations on either the government or fusion,...

That's two stagnant disappointments I will never have,...heheheheheheh,...

[Content1]

not noing about pay rates dropping, but take home pay just took a 2% hit.  sew, yinz better buckle up caws it's going to bee a ruff ride four a wile.

And that is not chump change.  2% times 60000 gross income = $1200 or $100/month of take home pay.  Add to that increased costs from Obamacare we will all be paying, and increase sales and state taxes, people may favor sites paying higher non-taxable and travel pay verses places with travel caps.  Simply being a good site to work at may become secondary to the dollar.  (Excelon, you are starting to look more attractive.)  So it is pointless to gripe at Bartlett or Atlantic, as it can be seen from the posts they are not getting rich at our expense, they are doing the best they can.  It will be up to use whatever tricks we can get more cash in our pockets until the situation improves, if ever.

[loki]

If bni isn't making a decent return they wouldn't be in business. If Bartlett dose anything well it's poor mouthing. Every coordinator I have spoken with urges techs to hold out to force an increase in compensation

[Content1]

If bni isn't making a decent return they wouldn't be in business. If Bartlett dose anything well it's poor mouthing. Every coordinator I have spoken with urges techs to hold out to force an increase in compensation

I have another method.  We should gather information about each site, like its pay, per diem, travel, bonus and assigned each site a relative Dollar value.  For example, I got a bonus at Peachbottom of $2500, while I just got a bonus at Ginna of a little over $500.  Although it is true I worked longer at Peachbottom, the difference is significant to make it less attractive as compared with Peachbottom.  Sites like San Onofre have no bonus.  Has anybody gathered onto a spreadsheeet this information?  What we could do with it is use it to decide and rank outages.  The higher paying outages would get the first and best people, and the lower paying ones would feel the heat in trying to fill them.  This alone could put a push on them to raise their rates if they want to get staffed with decent people.  On the flip side of the coin the lower paying sites may be forced to let new people in.   So many sites only want returnees, even if they are less attractive to the returnee.  They try to make us go back to the same site for a "bird in the hand" even if it pays less.    Finally you would have to factor in "Dog site" factors, such as cost of housing and crime rate around the plant as negative factors.  This would allow the market to factor in and allow the techs to have some say in their destiny.  Has anybody out there made a spread sheet about all the sites?

[Content1]

Step 1:  Make the call, and ask the rates.
Step 2: Write them down.
Step 3: Post it.

1.  Don't like to reinvent the wheel if someone has done it
2.  If nobody has done it, I must ask why?
3.  It would be wiser as a collaborative effort.  If everyone simply posted their site this Spring, then all can chime in.  Should we make a separate post such as "Where I am going, what the site is paying" such as done at the request of a moderator for input like yourself.  Otherwise, if I made such an effort, what would motivate me to share such info, and if I did it alone many may think my info is innacurate verses everybody who have a offer states what they were told, the data would be more trusted, the whole purpose of a Bulletin board.  Care to make a new posting.  I would start:  Brunswick, Sr. HP $26/hr, $1000 in and out travel, bonus $1/1.5.

[milo124]

1.  Don't like to reinvent the wheel if someone has done it
2.  If nobody has done it, I must ask why?
3.  It would be wiser as a collaborative effort.  If everyone simply posted their site this Spring, then all can chime in.  Should we make a separate post such as "Where I am going, what the site is paying" such as done at the request of a moderator for input like yourself.  Otherwise, if I made such an effort, what would motivate me to share such info, and if I did it alone many may think my info is innacurate verses everybody who have a offer states what they were told, the data would be more trusted, the whole purpose of a Bulletin board.  Care to make a new posting.  I would start:  Brunswick, Sr. HP $26/hr, $1000 in and out travel, bonus $1/1.5.

No per diem?  Also, what kind of schedule do they work (not as important but I've heard of schedules like 6 nines)?

[Old HP]

Content,

You short changed Brunswick (Progress Energy) as they increased their pay in 2011 for Senior Techs to $26.25 and $95.00 for perdiem. There is no returnee incentive other than the area and a short commute. Not a bad place but it is at the bottom pay wise.

[retired nuke]

Otherwise, if I made such an effort, what would motivate me to share such info,

Well... it is all about you...

[SloGlo]

If bni isn't making a decent return they wouldn't be in business. If Bartlett dose anything well it's poor mouthing. Every coordinator I have spoken with urges techs to hold out to force an increase in compensation

holding out puts coordinators and there pet tex in a shining light.  when compensation goes up, so does there's and any bonus the coordinator gets will rise two, as generally it is a percentage of profit on the job.   holding out will help the coordinators bank account.  knot that that's a bad thing...

[loki]

Napoleonic Eric will persist in giving the horses that pull the boxer treatment. An ever increasing contingent of foreign imports serve as his dogs

[RDTroja]

Sounds to me like sour grapes.

I have met many of those foreign techs and I am willing to bet you couldn't carry their clipboard.

[Content1]

Are there enough foreign techs to make a dent in the wages?  Are they paid different then regular citizens?  If they are paid substantially less, that could affect the wages.  If not, there is no encentive to hire more.  The problem with outsourcing has been the workers are paid substantially less for the same job, bringing down Americans wages or sending jobs overseas.  Any evidence that is happening here?

[Content1]

And that's why it isn't done.

I guess I will make a secret spread sheet with info about all the sites for comparison, done slowly enough so nobody suspects, and only share the data with those willing to do some of the work.

[HydroDave63]

I guess I will make a secret spread sheet with info about all the sites for comparison, done slowly enough so nobody suspects, and only share the data with those willing to do some of the work.

Using the password of "malContent1" ?!? 

[Content1]

Using the password of "malContent1" ?!?  

Only in the dictionary does success come before work.   If I do the labor, I am entitled to benefit from the fruits of that labor.  If anyone works with me I will share with them.  I hope this spreadsheet will help in future decisions on which outage to go to.

Modified to remove REALLY off-topic political comment.

[RDTroja]

Only in the dictionary does success come before work.   If I do the labor, I am entitled to benefit from the fruits of that labor.    If anyone works with me I will share with them.  I hope this spreadsheet will help in future decisions on which outage to go to.

That's the spirit of Nukeworker. Nobody here ever did any work to help other people without expecting something in return.  

Go away and take your spreadsheet with you.

[Chimera]

Wow.  Just wow.  Let me see.  How much does the job board cost you?  The forum?  The study guides or online practice tests here?  Some people are givers, and some are takers.  You, sir, are a taker.

Yeah . . . what Mike said.

[Content1]

Yeah . . . what Mike said.

I can see why nobody does anything or talks about it if they did.  If you ask, it is like you are wasting everyones time.  If you do something, and do all the work yourself, and no one helps, it either "all about you" or you are a "taker."  I can see why nothing is done, and if it is done, nobody says anything.

[RDTroja]

I can see why nobody does anything or talks about it if they did.  If you ask, it is like you are wasting everyones time.  If you do something, and do all the work yourself, and no one helps, it either "all about you" or you are a "taker."  I can see why nothing is done, and if it is done, nobody says anything.

People that want to help just do it. People that are out for their own gain don't. Pretty simple, really.

[Content1]

You still don't get it.

Like in the movie "War Games" the only correct move is not to play.  I am sorry I said anything, I withdraw anything said in this thread, so I do not get it and never will, and will go on to other things.  I can see, it is better to be a silent montior than a contributor as people seem to gang up no matter what I say.

[SloGlo]

dang, dood!  all yinz gotta due is start a fricken thread with a dang sheet for dee tales.  yew will have plenty of info posted in the next 30 daze. 

secret spread sheet.
dobble secret probation.

two many secrets.

[BetaAnt]

  OFF TOPIC!!! 

THIS IS NOT ABOUT CONTENT1'S SECRET FILES OR PROJECT. 

THE CORPORATE CORNHOLES DO NOT VALUE HEALTH PHYSICS SERVICES. 
THEY WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHAT WE DO UNTIL THE NRC TAKES AWAY THE KEYS. 
WE (HP techs) ARE A Pain In The A TO THE CORPORATE TYPES (like a festering boil).   

Nothing can be or will be done until half the outage crew is sent home in paper suits or crap loads of rad get offsite for the news media to find. 
It would be a bad day for the utility HP staff (like FitzPatrick bad). 
The Corporate cornholes would still hang the RPM and RP staff but the next outage would be well staffed and compensated. 

I would not suggest or condone any action by a rent-a-tech to propagate such an incident but, it will occur naturally (like coal mine dust explosions; the miners didn't blow themselves up, the corporate cornholes cut back on protective measures).

Have a Nice Day 

BA 

[Old HP]

In an attempt to get back on topic. NO the pay rates are not dropping. However there have been very few utilities actually raise their pay rates in the last 3-4 years. While the cost of housing (motels & rentals), fuel  and health insurance have increased substantially during that same time span. Which has forced me to not return to the plants that feel it is not important to look out for the techs that have been looking out for them in the past. It has become a challenge to keep a straight face when we are told how much we are appreciated. Yet we are expected to enforce their procedures,be familiar with the plant, know where all the supplies are located, cover jobs that are scheduled too agressively to be completed as planned and not be surprised to hear about  staff reductions 2 weeks into a 6 week outage due to poor budget planning.
It is great living "the dream" in the nuclear world.

[HydroDave63]

I can see why nobody does anything or talks about it if they did.  If you ask, it is like you are wasting everyones time.  If you do something, and do all the work yourself, and no one helps, it either "all about you" or you are a "taker."  I can see why nothing is done, and if it is done, nobody says anything.

Yet the lights stay on and the transmission lines still buzz. Where will you fly now, Jonathan Livingston Seagull?

[atomicarcheologist]

While I see this is under the Outage file, I thought I'd toss in my two cents from a non-outage perspective.  My pay goes up about 3% a year, accompanied by all the machinations of management to maintain that rate.   

[BetaAnt]

Posted by: Atomic Archeologist
While I see this is under the Outage file, I thought I'd toss in my two cents from a non-outage perspective.  My pay goes up about 3% a year, accompanied by all the machinations of management to maintain that rate. 

That's fine for a union protected house-mouse. For the non-union RATs we get screwed and squeezed by the short outages (some <17 days). 

Some say go house and sell your soul. The problem is all the older RATs will never be accepted by the younger RPMs and HR managers looking for fresh (and stupid) new blood. 
Your are too independent and would ask too many embarrassing questions. The RPMs and management DO NOT want lessons learned from another useta' plant. 
And they sure as hell don't want to hear, "I told you so..." when the fecal matter impacts the oscillating air mover. 

On my way to a North Dakota McDonald's to make $17/hr ("You want fries with that..." or "Do you want to supersize that..."). 

BA 

[SloGlo]

when you factor inflation to the take home equation, rates are no longer slowly dropping...   

[Content1]

One factor not mentioned here, the company that pays more expects higher quality techs.  I heard a couple of people who were caught sleeping only once were sent home and subsequent outages cancelled.  Kind of strict for a first offense for people on 12's plus 2 hour daily drive times.  Another I heard severe punishment is a medium respirator issued when the quals called for a small.  They expect quality for the higher pay, something to keep in mind.  It may be less stressful at a lower-paying site it is harder to get people to go to.

[surf50]

people who were caught sleeping only once

I have no sympathy for anyone caught sleeping on the job. They deserve to be fired. I don't buy the '12 hr shift plus drive time' excuse, either. That's why you go home and sleep, and not party, in between shifts.

I've had to pick up the slack for a lot of 'resting' techs over the years, and it's a personal peeve.

[GLW]

I have no sympathy for anyone caught sleeping on the job. They deserve to be fired. I don't buy the '12 hr shift plus drive time' excuse, either. That's why you go home and sleep, and not party, in between shifts.

I've had to pick up the slack for a lot of 'resting' techs over the years, and it's a personal peeve.

well, hot dam!, don't candy coat it brother!!!!

or, if the shoe fits, sing it sister!!!!

[Content1]

I have no sympathy for anyone caught sleeping on the job. They deserve to be fired. I don't buy the '12 hr shift plus drive time' excuse, either. That's why you go home and sleep, and not party, in between shifts.

I've had to pick up the slack for a lot of 'resting' techs over the years, and it's a personal peeve.

I hope you are never drowsy even when in your 60's when doing 84's.  He didn't party between shifts in the time to eat, shower and sleep.  When you are working 84's is starts to catch up on you after 2 weeks and no breaks.  People are only human.

Ok, how about this.  You issue 300 respirators during a week and made 2 errors (from an audit) of marking medium verses small because the customer asked for medium by mistake, then you go down the road for it.  Yes the information was on a computer screen but that is so easy to do.   Fair treatment?  You have a rush with 20 in line at any time waiting on you and you have other duties like assembling them and frisking old ones.  Is that fair on the tech? Is perfection the new rule?  Or do you also have a pet peeve on respirator issuance?

[GLW]

I hope you are never drowsy even when in your 60's when doing 84's.  He didn't party between shifts in the time to eat, shower and sleep.  When you are working 84's is starts to catch up on you after 2 weeks and no breaks.  People are only human.

Ok, how about this.  You issue 300 respirators during a week and made 2 errors (from an audit) of marking medium verses small because the customer asked for medium by mistake, then you go down the road for it.  Yes the information was on a computer screen but that is so easy to do.   Fair treatment?  You have a rush with 20 in line at any time waiting on you and you have other duties like assembling them and frisking old ones.  Is that fair on the tech? Is perfection the new rule?  Or do you also have a pet peeve on respirator issuance?

You already cautioned this was on a contract where the techs were paid more and higher quality was expected,...

One factor not mentioned here, the company that pays more expects higher quality techs.  I heard a couple of people who were caught sleeping only once were sent home and subsequent outages cancelled.  Kind of strict for a first offense for people on 12's plus 2 hour daily drive times.  Another I heard severe punishment is a medium respirator issued when the quals called for a small.  They expect quality for the higher pay, something to keep in mind.  It may be less stressful at a lower-paying site it is harder to get people to go to.

So I guess the answer is yes: if you are getting paid more it is fair to expect more,...

If you need to perform under a lower standard to be able to succeed then go where the pay is less and, so is the expectation,...

everybody wins,...

the top performers get top pay,...

the lower performers get lower pay,...

but everybody is getting paid something,...

seems fair,...

[Content1]

I find no fault in your logic.  I guess the free market does work.

[RADBASTARD]

Maybe if they stopped hiring loads and slugs constantly they wouldn't have this problem

[Content1]

Bingo!

I get damned tired of taking up the slack of the no loads, slackers, slugs, know-it-alls, etc.

How is there any slack you are taking up if are hired to work 12 hours minus a lunch and restroom breaks.  Do you have extra sit around time doing nothing like the other no-loads they now make you work were it not for them?  Do you define a slacker as someone with a disability if that disability prevents them from doing what you can do?  You want to fire all of them too?  Ignore the American with Disabilities Act laws?  If you don't like the law, talk to your congressman/woman and try to change the law, so you can put all the otherwise highly qualified and experienced on disability when they can still perform the core functions of their jobs?

I don't know what site you go to but I don't know leads who let anyone sit around except their friends who talk with them.  I find they have exact work loads with everyone carefully planned for a task and with expectation of accomplishment, or they go down the road.  What some try to do is to hide, drag their feet on jobs and a good boss must audit what their people do.  It is not so easy anymore, I find most walking around with to do lists checking on the progress of work and by who.

[SloGlo]

this thread is starting to sound like "were awl making grate money, butt those slugs are making moor per erg expended than eye (the gratest tek two ever swing a meater" witch is a winey kind of rant.  

[Ksheed]

I believe we are getting a little carried away with the claims of being all a$$holes & elbows during outage. With all the time spent in morning meetings, pre-job briefs, clearance order briefs, package review, waiting on predecessors, RWP review, rad briefs, dress out, undressing, clearing monitors, post job briefs, etc. the work load is more 80/20. 80% talking/reading and 20% actual work, and that's on a good shift when all the stars align and everything goes perfect.

You can go home and tell the wife/hubby how hard you worked if you want but don't tell me. And, no I don't bs my wife on it, she knows better. Her dad has worked in the industry for 30 years.

Oh yeah I forgot waiting on Ops, QC, RPs/HPs, Security, Firewatch, or Maintenance depending on what your job is.

While I'm at it, if you fall asleep on duty you should be out the gate. It is a FFD/Fatigue issue. No exceptions. You are paid very well for very little output the least you could do is come to work well rested and stay awake. If that means you have to get up and walk laps then do it.

[SpringChinook]

Having worked with and Supervised many of these guys, I must say I am impressed with their work ethic and professionalism.  I see these traits rubbing off on some of the American workers (not all sadly).  I look forward to
having them work for and with me again soon. 
The only technicians that should feel their opportunities are fewer because of these few guys are the ones who usually are not welcomed back to sites anyway. 

signed:  El Jeffe (inside joke)

Working with the "Mexican Mafia", for a few outages now (they know who they are)...I have learned a great deal from them. They are nothing short of geniuses when it comes to our survey data base and their work ethics are second to no one. Never have I heard them complain about having to cover a job...Can't wait until R-23...

[Bonds 25]

They don't even use pictures on their survey maps 

[SloGlo]

They don't even use pictures on their survey maps 

meaning their aren't c.a.d. on there maps, theirs knot any hand drawn pix, oar photos aren't imported and integrated with they're mapage?

[Nukefisher]

As far as " Mexican mafia" goes....they are also the ones who locked personnel in a LHRA....deposted instead of down posted.........have to upgrade a non American to lead tech to be an interpreter then it takes two techs to do a job.....the ones I work with are no ball of fire......they get more IPad time than most......and what about three part communications? That goes out the window a lot. And why do we need Mexican deconners? Can only be so bhi makes money for there friend Bartlett de Mexico which doesn't help us Americans as there is no reciprocation with jobs down there. And the h1b visa is a joke because they work doing isfsi over summer as opposed to American techs. So they can spend three hours drawing a beautiful map and in the mean time the other techs are in the field covering the work why they do unnecessary drafting for a ten minute survey.

[SpringChinook]

As far as " Mexican mafia" goes....they are also the ones who locked personnel in a LHRA....deposted instead of down posted.........have to upgrade a non American to lead tech to be an interpreter then it takes two techs to do a job.....the ones I work with are no ball of fire......they get more IPad time than most......and what about three part communications? That goes out the window a lot. And why do we need Mexican deconners? Can only be so bhi makes money for there friend Bartlett de Mexico which doesn't help us Americans as there is no reciprocation with jobs down there. And the h1b visa is a joke because they work doing isfsi over summer as opposed to American techs. So they can spend three hours drawing a beautiful map and in the mean time the other techs are in the field covering the work why they do unnecessary drafting for a ten minute survey.

You haven't worked with the real "Mexican Mafia" then...unfortunately, for you! The crew that comes to Columbia is TOP-NOTCH!

[SloGlo]

pay four hp types is definitely dropping when considered against the c.o.l. eye yam thinking that tex knot sharing info on pay is a part of the problem, a major part. teks don't talk any moor. communication is the key. find ware the best money is n go their. low pay sites will raze the rate too got the nominal number kneaded for the work.

[hamsamich]

techs know.  I know where the money isn't.  Dominion for instance pays like 26/100 last I heard.  I think that is about the lowest in the industry.  I heard they don't have an easy time getting techs and alot of the ones they do get may not be the greatest.  people vote with their feet.  happens all the time.

here are some things I know from experience in the last 2 years.  maybe you had a diff exp.

fpl/nextera - brought in late 28/100 returnees 30 tiny bonus, 72s love to lay people off early
duke - brought in early 32/85 tiny bonus 72s decent on layoffs, little early
exelon - brought in early and late, 29ish/120 big bonus like 6$ an hour.  work 84s  decent on layoffs

early means at least 2 weeks of training

fpl/nextera is my least fav up there.  they bring you in early, don't pay very good, let you go quick.  i was on last layoff but still early compared to most plants

[wasteman]

How about house tech money?  Any idea what the Michigan plants are paying their top step house techs?

[BetaAnt]

Now I'm about to P.O. people with one word - Union.

Road tech being paid $27/hr working 40's. Annual re-certification test and daily paperwork.
House techs paid $35/hr working 40's+. Annual re-certification test and daily paperwork.
Union Laborer pushing a broom and hauling trash $42/hr working 40's+ (includes medical and retirement but minus 2.5% dues). Annual GERT and NO paperwork.
Union Rigger lifting boxes paid $45/hr or Union Equipment Operator running a backhoe paid $50/hr. Again, annual GERT and NO paperwork.
Difference being UNION.

We had our chance to unionize years ago and were bought off by BHI, PSESI, ARC, NSS and intimidated by various site coordinators. The HP tech pool is shrinking due to age and pay. A deconner is nothing but a nuclear laborer (soon to be unionized). Who wants the hassle of low pay, limited hours, constant harassment by management, and getting older as a senior HP tech? Hell, Costco workers start at $17.50/hr with benefits and top at $25/hr.

I should have become a nuclear welder and have a retirement built up and a new Cadillac every 3 years. Instead, two marriages, two bankruptcies, and no retirement.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have screwed ourselves by being too independent ("I ain't joining no GD union!!!").

I'll save you a box for under the bridge, or some newspapers for that park-bench bed.

[SloGlo]

techs know.  I know where the money isn't.  Dominion for instance pays like 26/100 last I heard.  I think that is about the lowest in the industry.  I heard they don't have an easy time getting techs and alot of the ones they do get may not be the greatest.  people vote with their feet.  happens all the time.

here are some things I know from experience in the last 2 years.  maybe you had a diff exp.

fpl/nextera - brought in late 28/100 returnees 30 tiny bonus, 72s love to lay people off early
duke - brought in early 32/85 tiny bonus 72s decent on layoffs, little early
exelon - brought in early and late, 29ish/120 big bonus like 6$ an hour.  work 84s  decent on layoffs

early means at least 2 weeks of training

fpl/nextera is my least fav up there.  they bring you in early, don't pay very good, let you go quick.  i was on last layoff but still early compared to most plants

n on da threads four bonuses ( fall 2015, spring 2016) yins posted a couple sites on da fall, butt none fore spring....
n aye thing yores was the only post with money in it.
witch is my comm point, their isn't any.
tex ain't talking ourly, bonuses, duration, nutting.
n the pays stays the same.
iffen yins no witch plant is paying watt n whose going ware then won has a better idea.
post in public, like on this site, not on yore limited facebook page. get the green vibes going.

[Old HP]

The future for HPs is not looking good ..... Shorter outages, stagnant pay and fewer plants to work at.

[SloGlo]

The future for HPs is not looking good ..... Shorter outages, stagnant pay and fewer plants to work at.

awl these reasons wood be a good reason two give serious consideration too change watt we can.... wages.z

[Ksheed]

Now I'm about to P.O. people with one word - Union.

Road tech being paid $27/hr working 40's. Annual re-certification test and daily paperwork.
House techs paid $35/hr working 40's+. Annual re-certification test and daily paperwork.
Union Laborer pushing a broom and hauling trash $42/hr working 40's+ (includes medical and retirement but minus 2.5% dues). Annual GERT and NO paperwork.
Union Rigger lifting boxes paid $45/hr or Union Equipment Operator running a backhoe paid $50/hr. Again, annual GERT and NO paperwork.
Difference being UNION.

We had our chance to unionize years ago and were bought off by BHI, PSESI, ARC, NSS and intimidated by various site coordinators. The HP tech pool is shrinking due to age and pay. A deconner is nothing but a nuclear laborer (soon to be unionized). Who wants the hassle of low pay, limited hours, constant harassment by management, and getting older as a senior HP tech? Hell, Costco workers start at $17.50/hr with benefits and top at $25/hr.

I should have become a nuclear welder and have a retirement built up and a new Cadillac every 3 years. Instead, two marriages, two bankruptcies, and no retirement.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have screwed ourselves by being too independent ("I ain't joining no GD union!!!").

I'll save you a box for under the bridge, or some newspapers for that park-bench bed.

You tell me where a union laborer is making $42 an hour. As far as the riggers and heavy equipment operators go, that actually takes skill and experience earning the higher rate. Although I'd bet that your quoted rates for them are high as well. If your concerned or jealous of their wages and benefits switch over.

[Rerun]

We have a strong Union where I am at an I guarantee a laborer is earning a third of that top of scale. A backhow operator maybe half.

[Ksheed]

A Skilled Laborer for heavy construction in KC, MO is about $30 on the check.

Detroit, MI is mid-20's.

St. Louis, MO is comparable to Detroit.

Steamfitter Welders can expect mid $30's to mid $40's dependent on location. Of course you have to pass the hire-on test which, unlike a meter swinger, isn't just a right or wrong answer to a question. It's skill based and at the sole discretion of the inspector. What may get you qualified at one site may get you "looked out" at the next.

[Rerun]

Welders have to requalify every 6 months in Indiana. The certification isn't easy at all.

[Ksheed]

Welders have to requalify every 6 months in Indiana. The certification isn't easy at all.

That's per code. If they haven't used the applicable process within the 6 months then they have requal. It's that way everywhere.

[Rerun]

Incorrect. I run a training department. Every qualified welder has to perform a requal set of welds every 6 months.

[RFaunt]

You tell me where a union laborer is making $42 an hour. As far as the riggers and heavy equipment operators go, that actually takes skill and experience earning the higher rate. Although I'd bet that your quoted rates for them are high as well. If your concerned or jealous of their wages and benefits switch over.

For what it's worth, those numbers aren't far off what I see at my union plant. Nearly $39 for senior utility workers ie laborers. A good number of them got a pay bump years ago for a maintenance helper position that went obsolete, but the uprate remained in place; they make over $41 an hour. So it is accurate at some sites. I'm also not complaining: what goes in one man's pocket doesn't take food out of my child's mouth.

For what it's worth... 

[SloGlo]

$39.52 fore n.r.r.p.t wit 20 years

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Certification=National_Registry_Of_Radiation_Protection_Technologists_(NRRPT)/Hourly_Rate

[Ksheed]

Incorrect. I run a training department. Every qualified welder has to perform a requal set of welds every 6 months.

"No Colonel Sanders, your wrong. Mama's right!"

Per ASME IX

QW-322 Expiration and Renewal of
Qualification
QW-322.1 Expiration of Qualification. The performance
qualification of a welder or welding operator
shall be affected when one of the following conditions
occurs:
(a) When he has not welded with a process during
a period of 6 months or more, his qualifications for
that process shall expire; unless, within the six month
period, prior to his expiration of qualification,
(1) a welder has welded using a manual or semiautomatic
welding process which will maintain his qualification
for manual and semiautomatic welding with
that process;
(2) a welding operator has welded with a machine
or automatic welding process which will maintain his
qualification for machine and automatic welding with
that process.
(b) When there is a specific reason to question his
ability to make welds that meet the specification, the
qualifications which support the welding he is doing
shall be revoked. All other qualifications not questioned
remain in effect.

QW-322.2 Renewal of Qualification
(a) Renewal of qualification expired under QW-
322.1(a) above may be made for any process by welding
a single test coupon of either plate or pipe, of any
material, thickness or diameter, in any position, and
by testing of that coupon as required by QW-301 and
QW-302. A successful test renews the welder or welding
operator's previous qualifications for that process for
those materials, thicknesses, diameters, positions, and
other variables for which he was previously qualified.
Providing the conditions of QW-304 and QW-305
are satisfied, renewal of qualification under QW-322.1(a)
may be done on production work.
(b) Welders and welding operators whose qualifications
have been revoked under QW-322.1(b) above
shall requalify. Qualification shall utilize a test coupon
appropriate to the planned production work. The coupon
shall be welded and tested as required by QW-301 and
QW-302. Successful test restores the qualification.

If your site is mandating that all welders requal every 6 months regardless if they have welded utilizing the applicable process then they are going above and beyond the Code, which is asinine.

[SloGlo]

If your site is mandating that all welders requal every 6 months regardless if they have welded utilizing the applicable process then they are going above and beyond the Code, which is asinine.

yeah, like that never happens...

[Chimera]

$39.52 fore n.r.r.p.t wit 20 years

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Certification=National_Registry_Of_Radiation_Protection_Technologists_(NRRPT)/Hourly_Rate

I took a look at the site you referenced.  Dang . . . I'm way overpaid.

[Ksheed]

For what it's worth, those numbers aren't far off what I see at my union plant. Nearly $39 for senior utility workers ie laborers. A good number of them got a pay bump years ago for a maintenance helper position that went obsolete, but the uprate remained in place; they make over $41 an hour. So it is accurate at some sites. I'm also not complaining: what goes in one man's pocket doesn't take food out of my child's mouth.

For what it's worth... 

Thanks for the information. I was referencing what I was aware of which would be specific to Building Trades union laborers. I am assuming that the senior utility workers you reference are "house" employees. I'm sure that makes a big difference. Still surprising to see it that high, but good for them.

[cedugger]

I took a look at the site you referenced.  Dang . . . I'm way overpaid.

Own it! Somebody has to be average...just be glad it's not you!

[Ksheed]

yeah, like that never happens...

While I would be the first to agree our industry goes above and beyond what is really necessary, the fact that Rerun is speaking of a fossil facility makes it hard to believe. I've been onsite at a few of these and they are much more relaxed on their welding programs then any commercial nuke.

[BetaAnt]

Chicago Union Laborer 20 yrs - $42/ hr w/ benefits.

If you don't make nuclear welds, there is no bi-annual certification. Construction welders don't have the same requirements as nuclear.

[Ksheed]

Chicago Union Laborer 20 yrs - $42/ hr w/ benefits.

If you don't make nuclear welds, there is no bi-annual certification. Construction welders don't have the same requirements as nuclear.

If they are making welds covered by ASME, yes they do. Whether the welders are working jobs commercial, industrial, or nuclear. All have to test to be qualified and if they don't utilize the process within 6 months they have to recertify. The nuclear industry didn't create the 6 month rule. It is controlled by ASME. Additionally the same rule applies to structural welding covered under AWS D1.1 (bridges, buildings, etc.).

[GLW]

Chicago Union Laborer 20 yrs - $42/ hr w/ benefits.
If you don't make nuclear welds, there is no bi-annual certification. Construction welders don't have the same requirements as nuclear.

If they are making welds covered by ASME, yes they do. Whether the welders are working jobs commercial, industrial, or nuclear. All have to test to be qualified and if they don't utilize the process within 6 months they have to recertify. The nuclear industry didn't create the 6 month rule. It is controlled by ASME. Additionally the same rule applies to structural welding covered under AWS D1.1 (bridges, buildings, etc.).

recertify every nine years

certification maintenance every six months

endorsements get complicated

after that, well, I'm no certified welder, but I did sleep at the Holiday Inn within the last 9 years and the last 6 months, and I highly endorse them

[atomicarcheologist]

Does any of the readers of this thread have an elegant equation to show the decline of the HP technician pay rate declination over the years since the wage became stagnant, using the COL as the variable?

[GLW]

Does any of the readers of this thread have an elegant equation to show the decline of the HP technician pay rate declination over the years since the wage became stagnant, using the COL as the variable?

it's called a depression curve,...

it's buried somewhere in my other 2TB of odd knowledge gleaned over 28 years of working with PCs,...

you do not really want to see it,...

[Chimera]

Does any of the readers of this thread have an elegant equation to show the decline of the HP technician pay rate declination over the years since the wage became stagnant, using the COL as the variable?

Wouldn't a graph of the decline of the pay rate declination look like a positive curve?

[SloGlo]

Does any of the readers of this thread have an elegant equation to show the decline of the HP technician pay rate declination over the years since the wage became stagnant, using the COL as the variable?

aye ain't elegant, butt fingered out an equation four yins. eye yam thinking that using an inflation rate wood bee moor simple than the complexities of the c.o.l. fore formula construction.

a=a(original)x(1-inflation rate as decimal)e t

ware:
a is the amount of hourly pay
a(original) is the amount of hourly pay at the start of time frame
e indicates exponent
t is time in years of the time frame

[Rennhack]

Or you could just use this:

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=28&year1=2008&year2=2016

$28/hr in 2008 is equal to $30.84 now.  So... you would need a raise of about 10% over 8 years.  Inflation has not changed much in that time.

[SloGlo]

Or you could just use this:

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=28&year1=2008&year2=2016

knot the same fun factor....

$28/hr in 2008 is equal to $30.84 now.  So... you would need a raise of about 10% over 8 years.  Inflation has not changed much in that time.

pay gone up 10% inn those ate years?

[Rennhack]

pay gone up 10% inn those ate years?

Depends, if you are at a Utility for a contractor, or not.  Utility Contractors... probably no.  Anything else, probably so.

I know most of the DOE sites pay better than that.

[atomicarcheologist]

aye ain't elegant, butt fingered out an equation four yins. eye yam thinking that using an inflation rate wood bee moor simple than the complexities of the c.o.l. fore formula construction.

a=a(original)x(1-inflation rate as decimal)e t

ware:
a is the amount of hourly pay
a(original) is the amount of hourly pay at the start of time frame
e indicates exponent
t is time in years of the time frame

You are correct, the elegance isn't there. However the operation is so I'll take what is offered. The old AsubO formula? Nice approach for this forum. I was hoping for something with COL, maybe CPI variables incorporated, but this works fine.

[SloGlo]

$28/hr in 2008 is equal to $30.84 now.  So... you would need a raise of about 10% over 8 years.  Inflation has not changed much in that time.

like 1.1% a year, less than the low inflation rates in the last ate. looking at the last  fifteen will curl yore hare.

[GLW]

like 1.1% a year, less than the low inflation rates in the last ate. looking at the last  fifteen will curl yore hare.

no surprises;

the number of commercial nukes are dwindling,...

highly experienced personnel stay in the workforce longer,...

the USN still pumps better than 1000 new bodies into the pool every year,...

the "stimulus spawn" was another fire hose dumping of bodies into the pool,...

there is that bow wave of retirements coming up, but you're in it,...

[SloGlo]

no surprises;


there is that bow wave of retirements coming up, but you're in it,...

surfing that wave. bee nice two no theirs enough mass behind two ensure vector maintenance.

[Rerun]

Chicago Union Laborer 20 yrs - $42/ hr w/ benefits.

If you don't make nuclear welds, there is no bi-annual certification. Construction welders don't have the same requirements as nuclear.

Incorrect