To Old for Navy Nuke Career?

[zjv244]

I recently enlisted as HM in the Navy, and scored a 95 on the ASVAB. The liaison officer told me I "qualified for whatever I wanted", but wasn't really offered anything I knew much-or- cared about. I'm told an enlisted man usually is at MEPS to talk high scoring recruits into Nukes but he wasn't there when I enlisted.

Shortly after swearing my oath however, I received a call from my recruiter asking me to speak with him (the Nuke Liaison officer). I declined at first but he insisted (I found this odd since he didn't seem to think I'd do a great deal based on my practice test scores). But after speaking to the him, I admit to being intrigued by the challenge of the rate, and the demands placed upon them. In fact, without specifics, aspects of the rate remind me of what I do now in the civilian sector. However I have some reservations.

I'm 25 for starters ( I was told this would be easy to waiver), and never participated in a math course beyond Geometry, which was a good 8 years ago in high school. While I thought I could "just go Nuke" I've been informed I need to take an extra test. It wasn't until recently I discovered this test is in place for those of us not sharp enough to auto qualify.

Reading posts upon posts in this board in a similar vein to my own reveal a stunning level of similar doubts but with twice the education...if not more. I just feel an odd sensation. To be challenged and work with people as challenged as myself to exceed. To serve my country in a capacity so few are able to meet. I want a career in the Navy, and if I'm going to live life with insane demanding 60+ hour weeks then gosh darn, I'd rather do it with some honour.

However I seem unable to escape the doubts that I'm two steps behind everyone. I haven't even taken the actual NAPT test yet and I feel lost trying to teach myself subjects I've never touched before (I was told learn Trigonometry!!!). If the pipeline is a quarter as hard as everyone says, am I simply far to academically behind to actually keep up? Is some recruiter trying to meet a quota without particular concern to my Navy career?

I appreciate all honest opinions negative or otherwise, I feel this is a turning point in my personal life and I feel compelled to make an informed opinion. Navy Nuke has many appeals, especially for a career in my personal opinion, but I want to be realistic.

Thank you for any help rendered.

[spekkio]

My $.02: Pick a job you would enjoy, you'll be doing it for at least 4 years. Screw all that 'it's a challenge' psych-babble. Every job has its own challenges.

[Starkist]

As far as your age is concerned, lets look at this pragmatically.

You compare yourself to a 20 year old. While at your age, thats a reasonable difference, but look at the big picture. If you stayed in for 20 years, you will be 45. Compare that to the 20 year old... who will get out at 40. The difference between 40 and 45 is significantly different than 20-25. Who knows, if you went officer or made rank faster, you could possibly be even better off than the 20 year old.

At 25, you SHOULD have a maturity that will help stand you above your fellow sailors that are younger than you. While this may not give you the "oh wow" factor you desire, it can help you succeed where the younger ones/"less experienced" may not. *NOTE* please understand my "should" and "can" are not to be implied as "are" and "will". Im just relating myself now to what I was when I was 18-24 in the navy.

The real detriment is if you DON'T stay in the navy. If you do six years and leave, you will be 31, not 24-26 like most of your constituents. this can make it a bit more difficult to get on track with other goals you have for yourself.


Basically to sum up all this, you really need to do some soul searching of what you want to do with yourself. Being a "nuke" sucks while you're in. Theres really no bones about that. If you think 60 hours are demanding, how about 120? No, thats not an exaggeration. Some weeks were 140.



Finally, with power school, theres absolutely nothing to learn. In fact, you're probably behind if you have taken significant math courses. You LITERALLY start from 2+2=4 and build from there. They will teach you everything. For now you have to focus on passing your NAPT, and do not study beyond that test. Nothing you study now will help you for power school.

[MMM]

If you decide to try for nuke and are that worried, go to the library (or bookstore) and pickup chemistry, physics, and trig For Dummies (I love that series). They're basic enough that it will either refresh your memory or teach you the basics for the NAPT. The only real "challenge" I've seen in 20 years what getting through the pipeline. After that, it was fairly easy, except the occasional port/starboard watches, 3-6 section duty with the rest of the ship complaining about only being in 12 section (and sometimes about having to stand a 2nd watch during that duty day), and limited duty stations.

[SA82]

I was 27 when I joined and was offered a nuke waiver. I chose to accept it and I am glad that I did. If you decide to get out, like I did, your job opportunities will be good. I stayed in for 10 years and decided I had enough. I had no problem finding a well paying job. I used TA to complete my degree before I got out and I am using my GI Bill to pay for a masters degree.

In the worst case, if you fail out of nuke school, you will probably be rerated and you will be back to where you are now.

Either way, you are going to be slightly older than your co-workers so you may as well give nuke a try and secure your future.

[Gamecock]

Being a "nuke" sucks while you're in.

YMMV.  I enjoyed all of my 23 years, even the ones on sea duty.  It is what you make of it.

Cheers,

GC

[Higgs]

I joined when I was 23. The only advice I have is to avoid the desire to "party" with underagers.

Justin

[zjv244]

Soo...no one seems to think I'm behind academically thus far...is it common for someone with so little advanced education to enter this rate?

I'm not just implying my bones are older then dirt, just that much of highschool has faded away!

[HydroDave63]

Soo...no one seems to think I'm behind academically thus far...is it common for someone with so little advanced education to enter this rate?

I'm not just implying my bones are older then dirt, just that much of highschool has faded away!

With no class harder than Geometry eight years ago, I personally doubt you would successfully make it through the Nuke pipeline. That's not to say I and the folks here wouldn't wish you all the success and congratulate your success, just that the likelihood is low(er).

That isn't a bad thing. On my ship, we had a guy who came aboard as a non-rate striker (E-1). Did his 135 days mess-cranking with no complaints, chipped paint with no complaints, always kept his appearance and uniform super-sat, struck for sonar tech and got it, and had just put on his STG1 stripes when I left. His rank, paycheck and GI Bill college assistance money spends just the same as a 6 or 8-and-out nuke.

Oh, by the way, while I and the other nukes were 3-section steaming watches due to dual busted distilling units....the STGs and other dudes in CIC were 6-section rig-for-red and air-conditioned to 68 degrees the whole way. Not even ELTs have THAT sweet of a deal 

[MMM]

Bah, it's really more about how much you're willing to work. The navy teaches you what you need to get through the program, instructors will help if you ask. I've had more people tell me they had issues because they had to relearn things the way the navy wanted them done as opposed to how they learned in high school/college.

[Marlin]

Bah, it's really more about how much you're willing to work. The navy teaches you what you need to get through the program, instructors will help if you ask. I've had more people tell me they had issues because they had to relearn things the way the navy wanted them done as opposed to how they learned in high school/college.

The right way, the wrong way and the Navy way. 

[zjv244]

With no class harder than Geometry eight years ago, I personally doubt you would successfully make it through the Nuke pipeline. That's not to say I and the folks here wouldn't wish you all the success and congratulate your success, just that the likelihood is low(er).

That isn't a bad thing. On my ship, we had a guy who came aboard as a non-rate striker (E-1). Did his 135 days mess-cranking with no complaints, chipped paint with no complaints, always kept his appearance and uniform super-sat, struck for sonar tech and got it, and had just put on his STG1 stripes when I left. His rank, paycheck and GI Bill college assistance money spends just the same as a 6 or 8-and-out nuke.

Oh, by the way, while I and the other nukes were 3-section steaming watches due to dual busted distilling units....the STGs and other dudes in CIC were 6-section rig-for-red and air-conditioned to 68 degrees the whole way. Not even ELTs have THAT sweet of a deal 

I really appreciate your thoughts. To be honest I was so super pumped during/through/before the MEPS process I no longer cared what I did...I was utterly delighted and humbled to join the Navy
 Even if the made me a CS ( I heard they work way harder then they get credit for!). Just at the end of the day I'm still going to take the NAPT in few days, and I'll go from there. If I fail or decline, I still plan on doing my freakin best, and I'll of course let anyone here who cares know about the results! Love the Navy already!

[spekkio]

I disagree with his statement. If you can remember simple algebra, you will be perfectly fine on the enlisted end regarding math.

[Starkist]

YMMV.  I enjoyed all of my 23 years, even the ones on sea duty.  It is what you make of it.

Cheers,

GC

Like anything in this world, its (of course) what you make of it. You can enjoy your time in service, but there's little to argue that 3 section duty when the rest of the ship has 8 doesn't suck (and it was ONLY applicable to nukes, hence the "being a nuke sucks" comment). Meant it more of a  job specific comparison to other rates, not a "this job sucks, dont do it" comment. Should have been more clear I guess. Obviously the grass is always greener  

Daves post kinda amplifies my implication

Oh, by the way, while I and the other nukes were 3-section steaming watches due to dual busted distilling units....the STGs and other dudes in CIC were 6-section rig-for-red and air-conditioned to 68 degrees the whole way. Not even ELTs have THAT sweet of a deal 

@dave ->

I would concur, but if he's studying to pass the NAPT and does pass, he's probably where he needs to be wouldn't you think?

[Hilariousity]

If I were in your shoes knowing what I do now I would stay with the Corpsman job, because its way less stressful, you'll probably have more chances to go to college using TA, and you're "locked in" to studying power plants for the vast majority of your time versus whatever you want for the next six years. However the real question that you need to answer is "How hard are you willing to work?". If working 80 hours a week minimum sounds fine to you, You'll be perfectly fine.

[GLW]

I disagree with his statement. If you can remember simple algebra, you will be perfectly fine on the enlisted end regarding math.

I will agree with that,....

IMNSHO, nobody could (can?) facilitate comprehending logarithms as easy and with such epiphany as the USN did (can?),...

I cannot remember the details (it has been three decades) of how the USN accomplished that, I do recall that after AP High School mathematics and a couple of years of collegiate mathematics study,... I was impressed,... the process was impressive, a lot of the Section 1 and 2 guys needed it, and I was impressed with the USN methods that they got it,...

[MMM]

If I were in your shoes knowing what I do now I would stay with the Corpsman job, because its way less stressful, you'll probably have more chances to go to college using TA, and you're "locked in" to studying power plants for the vast majority of your time versus whatever you want for the next six years. However the real question that you need to answer is "How hard are you willing to work?". If working 80 hours a week minimum sounds fine to you, You'll be perfectly fine.

That being said, if you can handle being a navy nuke for 8-10 years (that's one reenlistment with a rather large bonus), you can get out and find jobs that start in the $80-90k/year range, not including bonuses or anything else. That is based on the EO position that Exelon has posted right now (it lists $35/hr). I don't think corpsmen have that kind of marketability. Plus it's not uncommon for nukes to make PO1 w/in 5 years and chief in 8-10 years.

[GLW]

That being said, if you can handle being a navy nuke for 8-10 years (that's one reenlistment with a rather large bonus), you can get out and find jobs that start in the $80-90k/year range, not including bonuses or anything else. That is based on the EO position that Exelon has posted right now (it lists $35/hr). I don't think corpsmen have that kind of marketability. Plus it's not uncommon for nukes to make PO1 w/in 5 years and chief in 8-10 years.

Not an accurate comparison,...

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Registered_Nurse_(RN)/Hourly_Rate

There are many, many more health care services places of employment than there are nuclear power plants,...

Do what you want to do, what you like to do, the money will follow,...

I wanted to be in the engineroom of a submarine,...

Everything else was gravy,...

[MMM]

True, an HM has A LOT more options for where to go both in and out of the navy, whereas a nuke is limited to power plants to make that much, but there are power plants all over, we're not restricted to nuclear plants (although they seem to pay better). Also, I don't think HMs can be RNs right out of the navy (unless they did that on their own).

[GLW]

......Also, I don't think HMs can be RNs right out of the navy (unless they did that on their own).

Well, in context, you described a compensation level that could be inferred to be commensurate after an 8-10 year length of active service:

That being said, if you can handle being a navy nuke for 8-10 years (that's one reenlistment with a rather large bonus), you can get out and find jobs that start in the $80-90k/year range, not including bonuses or anything else. That is based on the EO position that Exelon has posted right now (it lists $35/hr). I don't think corpsmen have that kind of marketability. Plus it's not uncommon for nukes to make PO1 w/in 5 years and chief in 8-10 years.

In the present day, a Navy nuke who gets out after 10 years and all that nuke has achieved is PO1 and successful completion of the NNPP, that Navy nuke is not going to be particularly competitive for the compensation level that was described.

So, a Navy nuke who puts in the time to gain a sheepskin and a senior supervisory watch is where that compensation level is more readily realized,...

Comparatively, a Navy Corpsman who puts in 8 to 10 years can probably accumulate the education needed to be an RN upon discharge from active service,...

I can only speculate which sailor will have more off duty time for those two scenarios, I'm speculating it will not be the Navy nuke,...

Do what you want to do, what you like to do, the money will follow,...

[spekkio]

That being said, if you can handle being a navy nuke for 8-10 years (that's one reenlistment with a rather large bonus), you can get out and find jobs that start in the $80-90k/year range, not including bonuses or anything else. That is based on the EO position that Exelon has posted right now (it lists $35/hr). I don't think corpsmen have that kind of marketability. Plus it's not uncommon for nukes to make PO1 w/in 5 years and chief in 8-10 years.

1) $35/hour is $72k/year, not $80-90.

2) Job postings like that are becoming more scarce because the nuclear utility industry is downsizing (and not because it wants to). Hence, the jobs that do open are going to be competitive and it's unlikely that a vanilla 6 or 8 and out Navy nuke with no college education gets the job.

3) You can't be an RN without a associates or BSN. But you can use the GI bill when out (or tuition assistance while in) to obtain that degree. And if you do obtain that degree, there are many areas that pay BSNs the salary range you noted. On the other hand, it's a virtual certainty that a nuke will not have the time to use his tuition assistance to make any meaningful progress toward obtianing a bachelor's.

This idea that employers will be begging Navy nukes to work for them for $80k+ is just not true. It's a line recruiters use to sell people on being nukes. Not saying that one can't be successful in a post-Navy career, but that the advantages are not as pronounced as you think they are. Career transitions (and that's what getting out of the military is) always take work, and no matter what your mil job is you're going to have to do some sort of education/training/certifications to be able to do the civilian analogue.

[MMM]

1) True, $35/hr for a 40 hour week, 50 weeks a year is around $72k/year, but doesn't account for overtime (which I admit I try not to figure in when looking at pay). However, I've seen about a dozen or so postings in the last few weeks for NLOs, this is the only one I've seen with the pay posted.

2) I will also agree I don't know how the jobs are for the civilian nuclear world right now either, so it might require a little extra effort on the sailors part to prepare for separating.

3) There are plenty of nukes that get their degrees using TA. It's somewhat difficult when on a sub (Full disclosure: I'm a surface guy, I know nothing about sub life), but on a carrier or on shore duty is completely possible with a little effort. So this point is somewhat invalid.

I agree, employers will not be "begging" navy nukes to work for them. It does require a little effort on our part to find the job, but a navy nuke can find jobs that are close to or in the 6 figure range (they went direct SRO/RO and shift supervisors at non-nuke plants). The guys I know that did that were not 6 or 8 and out guys, I think they were all 10+ years or just under 10 years.

[spekkio]

Yea, everyone knows someone who got out and landed a 6-figure instant SRO job, just like everyone knows someone who made millions off of some startup stock or flipping houses. But I also know of two CPOs retiring @ 20 years under 40 years old who ultimately had to accept jobs with paycuts. I also know a few 6-and-outers who accepted jobs at the local maintenance depot which starts around mid-40s/50s range and others who just decided not to make a career out of nuclear power.

The point is, I'd love to see some actual data on how often a nuke lands that coveted 6-figure job at a utility. I'd guess it's a lot less frequent than people make it out to be just going by anecdotal evidence and posts I've read on this forum from supervisors at utilities. I'd also say that it's unrealistic for an 18-year-old signing a nuke contract to expect that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[MMM]

Off the top of my head, I know 7 that went direct SRO when they got out. All were E-6 (one E-7 and one frocked CPO) with 8-12 years in, 3 qualified EOOW and the rest EWS/PPWS (one got out from sea duty). I also do know a MCPO that took an instructor job and ended up with a small pay cut when he retired at 21 years. These were all in the last 4 years.

I don't know how many people applied and didn't get direct SRO or just took the pay cut and went NLO, although I know plenty of guys that did 6 and out and went NLO, but that was about 15 years ago.

Just to be clear, I 100% agree with GLW, do something you enjoy. No amount of money is worth being in a job that makes you miserable (well, maybe if it's 7 or 8 figures, then you can quit in a year or two). I also agree that there is no guarantee of getting an SRO or NLO position when a nuke gets out. A lot of things factor into it, such as, if you are getting out during a hiring cycle.

Spekkio, I think we agree that, while the high paying jobs are out there for nuke, they are by no means guaranteed or easy to come by. You do need to work to get them and set yourself up fairly early on or you might screw yourself out of the possibility.

[Gamecock]

This idea that employers will be begging Navy nukes to work for them for $80k+ is just not true....

I concur.....

After I retired, I accepted a job that paid just south of 80K.  It was a humbling experience.