Son is a New Navynuke [Merged]

[tgant]

Please help! I admit to being panicked. 

My son , who was a college Senior in Microbiology, just enlisted in the Navy as an enlisted nuke person.All I know is that he will be doing basic training in Great Lakes and that he is supposed to be in school for 2 years after that in Charleston.

Does the basic training start and end on fixed days, or is it rotating? Is there a graduation ceremony after basic?  If so, when?After he gets to Charleston, I surmise from what I've read on this site that the training there is in segments. How long is each segment?

What can he have with him during basic and then at Charleston? Specifically, can he have a cell phone?

I don't know numbers, but I was told his entry scores were off the charts. (He had over a 1500 on his SAT's)What are his chances of being able to finish his degree in microbiology? I know that isn't the Navy's field, but he was 2 semesters from getting it. On the other hand,can he get a degree in engineering or physics? (He already had a LOT of physics credit, both advanced placement and courses) If so, when and where?

What are his chances of getting into an officer position? Are they any better than those of a high school graduate? What is the best route to do so?

Will they automatically pay off his prior student loans, or is that something he had to negotiate specifically?

After he is done with all his 2 years of training, if we are still at war in Iraq, is he likely to go there? If so, how dangerous are those missions? Most of the post training 4 years are at sea, I understand?

Is the Book Honor, Courage , and Commitment:Navy Boot Camp a good source for basic information? Other suggested sources? 

[tgant]

I posted this on another board,and I guess this is the better board for it.

My son just enlisted for 6 years as a nuke , without telling anyone, dropping out of his last year of college. With 3 years of college, will he have a better shot at becoming an officer than high school grads? What is the best path to becoming an officer for him? I am told his scores were great, but don't have specifics. His SAT's were over 1500, so he is a bright guy who tests well.I don't know if this matters in trying to become an officer...

Where and how can he best finish either the microbiology degree he was earning or whatever he can get, engineering or physics? Since almost the only classes he had left were biology, he won't get credit for that through his work experience as a nuke.
After his 2 years of training, if we are still in Iraq, is he likely to go there? What is risk level of service?

[sefrick]

Tgant,

Your son is about to have a tremendous amount of opportunities. He may have opportunities to complete his degree and go officer which will open more windows, or he may opt to stay enlisted. Either way the Navy Nuclear Propulsion Pipeline is one of the nation's best!

Currently I'm stationed at the Naval Hospital in Great Lakes. I can tell you first hand that boot camp is a breeze! 8 weeks long, the first week is mostly inprocessing and training begins the second week. Training consists of basic seamanship, the rank/rate system and basic military bearing; no Full Metal Jacket type stuff anymore. At the end thier is a graduation weekend.

Promptly after training your son will be sent to Charleton SC for basic "A" school for whatever enlisted rate that he was assigned. After "A" school is 26 weeks of power school, followed by 26 weeks of prototype, hands on power plant operational training. If your son wishes to be an officer on the unrestricted line, as close to graduating that he is, he may opt to go with the STA-21 ( Seaman to Admiral ) program. He will have a strong chance at getting accepted.

I could go into more detail if I knew what your son's intentions were. Almost 10 years ago I jumped into the Navy feet first and allowed to tide to take me wherever. The ONLY descision and plan that I had was that I wanted to be a Nuke, everything else just fell into place and I can't too much complain. With direction and a planning your son can do quite well for himself and REALLY set himself up for success later in life.

[tgant]

Sefrick,
Thank you!
Unfortunately I'm not sure  what my son's intentions are, since he did this without consulting or even informing his parent's.I think he does want to stay with the nuke program, from what he told an uncle who is a retired Navy pilot.

How long is "A" school?

The STA-21 program-Is that something he had to sign up for when he enlisted or can he apply now or later? If so, what should he do to maximize his chances. When you say :officer on the unrestricted line" do you mean not on the nuke side?
Thanks again. I am panicked and really , really want info.
Tamara

[Harshman]

I feel for both of you. I followed a similar path. 3 years and into the Canoe Club I went. Your son may or may not be better prepared for the club. Each person is different and will respond differently to the 'atmosphere'. His prior education should help him get through the class work, it will not help him deal with the demands placed on him by the Navy method. He will be expected to swallow all of the knowledge that the Navy says he needs to perform as a good little Nukey. It has been compared to drinking from a fire hose at full open. Concerning his chances of getting an officer program, that depends on the needs of the Navy, his attitude, and his aspirations. SATs and prior performance will also be important. My first three years of college were less than stellar and I was not granted the opportunity to be an officer. Still, the experience was not something that I would consider not doing. I gained much from it. My return to college following the Navy was SO much easier. The kids there were so young. I was not able to find a method to complete the higher classes required to complete my degree while on a submarine. It may be different on a target (carrier), I don't know. However, there are a number of very knowledgable folks here that will shed some light on the subject. There are also a number of other topics running that you should look at for help. As to where he might end up... your guess is as good as anyone else's at this point.

[sefrick]

Tgant,
He could inquire about STA-21 as soon as he gets to bootcamp, well thats a maybe!! But definately in "A" school.

As far as "A" school goes there are 3 different basic fields of trade study that Nukes fall under:

Machinest Mate (MM's)-These guys work in the engineroom and are responsible for all propulsion plant, steam plant and plant support systems. They also perform basic maintenance on the reactor plant system, i.e. air and water filter inspections/replacements, Thier "A" school is 13 weeks

Electrictions Mate  (EM's)- They operate the electric plant and perform all electric plant maintenance. They work with generators, pump motors, motor controllers, etc. Their school is either 13 or 16 weeks

(The above to enlisted rates are the guys that you see VERY DIRTY during maintenance periods)

Electronics Technitions (ET's)- These guys actually perform the start up and shutdown of the reactor plant and operate the plant during normal operating conditions. They typically perform the most maintenance at sea because most of thier maintenance requires the plant to be operating. They work with all of the reactor plant  instuments i.e., rod conrol, rod position indication and all the systems that monitor plant parameters. Thier school is 26 weeks.

By the way, no cell phone in boot camp, just the clothes on his back.

[taterhead]

I joined the Navy after 3 years of college as well.  I was tired of working, going to school, wracking up debt with little income, etc.

I will assume he is about 21 yrs old, and hopefully gained a little maturity in his 3 yrs of school.  That will go a long way towards keeping him out of trouble in school.  I saw so many guys go down for stupid stuff, namely underage drinking.  In this aspect, he has a headstart. 

Power School shouldn't be a problem for him.  As for prior college and high SATs, they absolutely give him an advantage as a candidate for officer programs.  However, and this is huge, from this point on, his performance in the military is in play just as much as those high scores and many credits.  He will likely be asked to do menial work (clean toilets, scrub bilges, chip paint, etc.)  Even if becoming an officer is his only motivation in life, he will quickly become a pain in the ass if he keeps reminding everyone around him about it.  People will help him out, but he will have to remember that his job is to perform his taskings, not get picked up for officer.

He will not be able to take the classes he needs for a MB until he gets a shore duty of some sort (after his first ship), if he stays enlisted that long.

As for risk...minimal.  I mean, almost nil.  He will likely be in no greater danger there than he is out in the middle of the Atlantic.

Nuclear ships are stationed stateside (except for Guam).  95% chance he gets stationed at one of the big bases on the east or west coast.

Don't despair, Dad.  He hasn't thrown his life away.  He is trying something completely new.  Just support him 100%.

[Already Gone]

Take a deep breath and sit down for a minute.  I know how you are feeling.  It is tough to face the point when your child starts making choices of his own that have long-term effects. 
It helps to be supportive, but try not to worry.  Encourage him to speak to the command career counsellor at every duty station.  These people are sharp and they actually serve more than just the needs of the Navy.  You will hear a lot that the needs of the Navy always come first.  But the Navy doesn't let potential go to waste.  All they need is to know it is there.  A CCC will be up to the minute on what programs will be beneficial to your son.
To be an officer, he will need a degree.  There are many programs to obtain the degree as an enlisted man, especially if he is already that far along.  The Navy rarely if ever pays any education costs incurred prior to the start of service.  But, they can give guidance on deferring those costs.
Don't even bother talking to a recruiter.  He will only tell you what he thinks you want to hear to make you comfortable with your son's choice.  It seems to be past that point now.  So, comfortable or not, it's time to be practical and pragmatic.
Sometimes a break from college studies is necessary.  Maybe he just wasn't sure about microbiology.  Look at it this way.  Lots of people finish degrees and find that they are miserable in their chosen field.  Things haven't gotten that far with your child.  You may have just saved a year's wasted tuition.

They will certainly not let him have a cell phone in basic training.  He will be given a chance to call home on arrival, and might get to use a telephone once a week or so after the first month.  If he has a girlfriend, don't expect to spend any time on the phone with him.
There is a graduation ceremony at the end of basic.
The best advice to give him before he goes is this:  Boot Camp is a game.  It is a serious game, with an important objective, but it is a game.  The point is to use your brain and initiative to accomplish tasks that appear to make no sense at all.  Many of those tasks actually are meaningless for a reason.  He is going to be trained to think for himself while trusting the wisdom of his seniors - to believe that every order must be carried out even if it has no apparent reason.  This is the essence of military discipline.  The command structure works only when young people can use mature, intelligent decision-making to accomplish objectives that they may or may not understand.  This is why it is called "basic training".  Nobody is ready for further training until this basic ability is instilled in them.
So, tell him to do as he is told the best he can, and not take anything (especially himself) too seriously.  He'll be fine.

Almost all nukes serve aboard Aircraft Carriers and Submarines.  Others are assigned to maintenance facilities or as instructors.  Since Iraq is a land-locked country, you need not fear him being sent there as a nuke.  (Although Bagdhad is well in range of the missiles that they may fire.)
Best of luck to you and your son.  Thank him for his service to the United States from all of us at NukeWorker.com

[ETNuclearSailor]

As someone who has just done this, I can hopefully give you a better first hand narrative of the entire process.
I went to boot camp at the end of March 03. I had put myself in a "dig-it" frame of mind before I arrived, so all the yelling and walking in straight lines in a ridiculous fashion was fun for me. I thought overall, boot camp was a blast. I wish we had PT'd a little more.
I won't go and describe the ratings, a good job of that was done above. I will add, however, that EM A school is 25 weeks now, vice 16. It's now MM-16 weeks, EM-25 and ET-26.
Power school is 24 weeks for everyone. Prototype is also 24 weeks, and can occur in Charleston or Ballston Spa, NY (where I am now).
The program is challenging, more challenging that college was. College is more about figuring things out, power school is more about learining things exactly the way you're told to. The pace makes it much more challenging.
I was also pretty far into college, but I'd also been out of it for a while. I'm now on hold awaiting transfer to STA 21, a commissioning program where I will be paid to go back to college and get a degree, in return I get a commission and 5 years "job security".
Please have your sone contact me at etnuclearsailor@yahoo.com, or you can email questions to me.
EDIT:
I forgot to answer the most important question: Nukes will not be given rifles and sent to Iraq, however, he could be assigned to a sub or carrier in the Med.

[RCLCPO]

OK, my turn.

The STA-21 program is probably the way for him to go, but is not the only path.  I had only a year of college before joining, and was able to get a BS degree while on my first shore duty, and saw others get theirs while still serving on a submarine.  Later, when I started toward a Masters degree, I took my first class while serving on a submarine.  It can be done, and from respected schools (Old Dominion University).

Iraq?  Not a concern.  His sub may stay off shore and lob a few missiles at Iraq, but he will be in no more danger than being tied to the pier in San Diego.

One other resource: www.cnrc.navy.mil/nucfield

This is our nuclear field site, with background and other information.

Maintenance?  sefrick, I don't know where you've been, but I've been on 4 different subs and done a prototype staff tour.  ETs do the LEAST maintenance of the nuke rates, and by a significant margin.  You're right about us not sweating or getting dirty, though.  We had the most political paperwork, demanding extreme accuracy, but NOT the most work.

Loans?  I hate to contradict you, Beer Court, but the Navy does have a very good Loan Repayment Plan.  I believe this to be the way to get the most out of the Navy, financially:  Enlist with a degree taking the LRP option.  The 12K contract bonus plus the bonus for college credit of up to 8K more is pretty nice.  The Navy will then pay off 1/3 of your college loans each year, so at the 3 year point, re-enlist.  Now, you can get E5 (if you haven't already), the GI BIll, and 45K as a bonus.  Finish your sea tour taking Masters level classes using PACE (Program for Afloat College Education) for free.  I have seen the LRP take care of several kids who finished their degree and then were unable to find a job.  Once they re-enlist, they can also get the GI Bill for their future education as well.

ETC(SS) Wilson

[Already Gone]

Geez!  Where do I sign?  I got screwed royally between GI Bills.  All we had was a tuition savings plan where we contributed half the money.  If we put in the max, we could have probably paid for a semester of Junior College with it.

Of course, a lot of guys who enlisted when I did took advantage of the SSRA of 1940 and didn't have to pay on their student loans as long as they stayed in.

[jeepgirl1]

Hey,
I'm in the same boat as your son (Microbio-major-turned-Navy-nuke (hopefully ).  Just wanted to pass on some advice about his degree.  When he goes back to finish it, tell him to also look into obtaining a Biology degree.  A lot of the classes are the same and to obtain the Bio degree, he'll probably only have to take another class or two ... kind of like getting 2 degrees for the price of one.

I've heard good things about that book you mentioned (HONOR, COURAGE, and COMMITMENT ...).  I'm waiting on my copy from Amazon. 

When's your son leaving for RTC?

[sefrick]

RCLCPO, I remember quite a few watches that I was offgoing where I had to listen to the offgoing RO and RT whine (the typical wire rate whine) about having to go aft after afterwatch cleanup for PMS, mostly on PPI's (if I remember right). That was only at sea though. I don't know for certain, but in port I  know you guys have no load, I was quite jealous. 

[RCLCPO]

Back in the days of the fish boats (mine was the Guardfish, SSN-612), we did have some time consuming PMS (like PPI's).  Over the years though, monthly became weekly, then became almost nothing.  The modern microprocessor-based I&C suite is so full of self-diagnostics, PMS is almost unnecessary.  TG's and MG's are still pretty much the same animal, along with the M-div gear, but RC-div equipment is awesome--complicated--but awesome.  When I was on a boomer, the electricians had some kind of MG to clean after EVERY afternoon watch, all week long.  Not us!

[tgant]

Jeep Girl 1,
My son started RTC on 12/17. When do you start?

Thank all of you people for lots of good info. Easy on the acronyms. RTC, MM, ET,etc are about as far as I know.

I emailed  ET Nuclear Sailor. Did you get my questions?

Merry Christmas to all.

[theshadowprocess]

The best path for your son to becoming an officer would be STA-21 or OCS. It would take longer for him to get to the point where he would have time to take college courses, but not longer after that, with degree in hand, he would have a decent shot at OCS. STA-21 could occur as early as while in NPS, however if he was picked up, he would have a year(or less?) to complete school (i know someone who recently got out of the STA-21 "boot camp"--the navy wasn't aware he was very close to getting a degree, but once they did, they severely lowered his allowed time to complete school.)
hope this helps

[jeepgirl1]

Tgant,
Hopefully, I'll be shipping in April once my last waiver comes back.  I wish your son the best ... and you, too  .

[ETfromHELL]

"A" school lengths are now very different.

Machinist's Mate- 14 weeks
Electrician's Mate/Electronics Technician- 26 weeks (last course in "A" school is different for the two rates).

[getinmiggy]

Tell your son to get out right now. Not to finish. He is better off just finishing his degree. He will thank you for telling him that if you can convence him not to finish. The Navy sucks and the Nuke program that much more. It is not too late for him to get out. They will tell him he can't but he has 90 days before it is too late. Encourage your son to get out!!!

[Roll Tide]

Tell your son to get out right now. Not to finish. He is better off just finishing his degree. He will thank you for telling him that if you can convence him not to finish. The Navy sucks and the Nuke program that much more.

Obviously, there are many view points on the Navy Nuke program. It requires much hard work and will usually make a man out of a spoiled boy (though it obviously hasn't had that effect on all!)

[taterhead]

Obviously, there are many view points on the Navy Nuke program. It requires much hard work and will usually make a man out of a spoiled boy (though it obviously hasn't had that effect on all!)

concur-

[20 Years Gone]

Once upon a time enlistment involved an oath,... my dad taught me, and exemplified by example, that a man considers carefully beforehand, and then makes very few oaths through his lifetime,...the oath is biding upon him that makes it,...regardless of circumstance afterwards

Very well said.  I'm not so sure a man or womans word or oath means today what it once did in days gone by.

[tgant]

I just got a copy of my son's contract. It seems he could elect the sign on bonus, the Navy college fund, or a combination plan, and he elected the sign on bonus.
Does this mean he has no education benefits?

There was something elsewhere in the papers about a $100.00 deduction from pay for education benefits( the Montgomery GI bill) being automatic unless you waive it at RTC. Is this different form the Navy college fund?

What is the maximum score possible on all those sub-tests like the AR, EI, etc?What do those stand for, specifically, VE,AO,WX,PC, and AS?

I know what the ASVAB is, but what is the AFQT?

What does certified as "HSDG" mean? These acronyms are killing me!

What do squad leaders do? Does being selected as one mean much?

I've read in different places that each boot camp grad gets 3 or 2 guaranteed seats at the graduation ceremony. . Does anyone know which it is? Are there normally extra open seats or not?

THANKS!
tgant

[Roll Tide]

I just got a copy of my son's contract. It seems he could elect the sign on bonus, the Navy college fund, or a combination plan, and he elected the sign on bonus.
Does this mean he has no education benefits?

There was something elsewhere in the papers about a $100.00 deduction from pay for education benefits( the Montgomery GI bill) being automatic unless you waive it at RTC. Is this different form the Navy college fund?

The Montgomery GI Bill is a good deal, and he will be receiving it if he doesn't opt out (he shouldn't!) Th Navy college fund is a different animal, and the signing bonus may be just as good (even better since it is upfront).

Additionally, the academic portion of the ASVAB is combined and then the percentile rankings give you AFQT. (Most people just refer to the AFQT as the ASVAB score, though it is really a ranking on math and verbal sections only)

I will have to punt the rest, it has been too many years.

[cave_dog42]

On the ASVAB the sections are;
General Science (GS)
Arithmetic Reasoning (AR)
Word Knowledge (WK)
Paragraph Comprehension (PC)
Auto & Shop (AS)
Mathematics Knowledge (MK)
Mechanical Comprehension (MK)
Electronics Information (EI)
Assembling Objects (AS)

Hope this helps