R&D

[Skipperooni]

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here. My name is Skipperooni. I am 29 years old. I have graduated with a BS (Bull$**t) in chemistry and physics. I am currently a graduate student and research assistant in physics at some crappy state university. I will be done with a master's degree in physics by May of next year.

Here are the reasons why I am interested in the NuPOC program:

(1) I am qualified. I had a high cumulative GPA for my bachelor's degree in two relevant curricula. My graduate GPA is not high, but it's good enough. I have no doubt that I can successfully complete the NuPOC program.

(2) The Navy showed a lot of interest in me. The recruiter drove around 40 miles to speak to me the day after I applied. I had tried to speak to an Army and Air Force recruiter, but they took days to reply to my emails. When they did respond, they sent me a few links and didn't express any interest in me.

(3) I want to serve my country. I had been searching for careers in research and development for defense contractors before applying to the Navy for the same reason. The NuPOC program might not be related to research and development, but at least it is somewhat related to science and engineering.

(4) I want to join for the experience. I've been in school for the last seven some odd years. A lot of what I've read about being a nuclear submarine officer sounds terrible but other things sound cool and exciting. I really want to escape this nightmare that school has become. I want to experience something different. Even though I will have to attend school after getting into the NuPOC program, at least I will be making money, which brings me to my next reason.

(5) I need money. Being in school for seven some odd years has transmogrified me into some kind of weird and socially awkward adult child who is less financially stable than a 15 year old kid. The salary offered by the Navy for nuclear submarine officers are competitive with careers in physics and science research and development, even at the master's level. There is not a lot of money in science, unless you pursue a PhD in something applicable, but I really don't want to spend another five years in school trying to do that. There are not a lot of jobs in science, either. I know several people who received PhDs in chemistry or physics to only become an assistant professor at a community college. Success is not guaranteed in the physical sciences, no matter what your level of education is.

(6) I have practically no family or friends. Currently, I speak with my immediate family (mother and father) about once every few months, and I see them about once a year. Everyone else, I hardly speak to or come into contact with. I have no girlfriend or close friends. So, being away from family or relationships is not a problem for me.

(7) I don't really know what I am doing with my life.

( I want to advance my career in science and engineering. I currently work in a lab for like 60 hours a week for around ten grand a year. It's absolutely miserable, but that's what being a graduate student is like. I would still like to work in research and development for a defense contractor or the department of energy in the future. I noticed that they give precedence to veterans. This brings me to my question.

Do you think after serving for 5 years that I would be a better candidate for jobs in research and development? From what I hear, the negatives of being a nuclear submarine officer far outweigh the positives, and most people do not make it a longterm career. Therefore, if I am unable to transition to another career that I'm interested in, than I could be wasting my time in the NuPOC program, and at 29 years old, that could be detrimental.

Another thing, is it really that bad? I work in a laboratory for around 60 hours a week for around ten grand a year. (If you are wondering how that is possible, half of your work in the lab is for your thesis, and you don't get paid for that. So, 20 hours for pay, 40 hours for "thesis work." That's graduate school.) A lot of what I do is monotonous and boring, too. All last week, I injected stuff into a tube repetitively over and over again for like ten hours a day. Today's Saturday, and they want me to come in and do the same thing. At least I am above the surface of the water and have fresh air, I suppose.

Sorry, I started to ramble.

Thank you for listening.Modified for language

[hamsamich]

It is really that bad unless you like that type of thing.  I would finish my masters and put in for jobs all over the country until you get one.  Then use the experience gained from that job to get one you like better.  The Navy is a great place to get experience/training.  You already have it, so unless you just really want to be at the mercy of whatever command you happen to get stationed at, be your own master.  That is the issue in the Navy.  It is probably never going to be any better than good, but there are plenty of places to go that really suck, and you aren't allowed to quit.  The people in charge of you are the people that stayed in for whatever reason while everyone else got out.  Some of them are good but most of them kinda suck. It's like going to Vegas and putting down 100,000 $ you don't have on a bet that pays out 2:1 odds but has a 20% chance of winning.  You already have what you need to get a decent job.  Don't bet 6 years of your life for something you already have some of.

[Skipperooni]

I am currently having trouble finding a decent job. They start chemists out at around 30k salary, usually as a technician, which I don't think is decent enough, considering the amount of money I spent on my bachelor's degree. Physicists start out at around 40k salary, which is okay, but the number of jobs in physics is very low. With a masters degree, I might be able to start at around 50 to 60k, but the number of jobs is still very low. I've had zero luck trying to get a job with defense contractors and national labs. I have a feeling that I'm probably heading in the direction of professional student, which will be maybe around 30k a year, if I'm lucky, for the next 4 or 5 years. This Nuclear Navy thing was the highest salary position that has ever considered me.

[hamsamich]

I would just bite the bullet and finish that masters.  But I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if the Navy would cut you a good deal as an officer.  But with a Masters I would think you would be more marketable.  If you want to do ANYTHING but finish that masters because you are hating school then maybe the Navy would be good for you.  Unless the Navy guarantees you something good I'd just finish that master's.  I came right out of the Navy in 95 while working at a sampling firm making 10 bucks an hour.  But while doing that I was looking for something better.  I bet you if you are a good worker with that masters you might start some where at 15 bucks an hour but you could move up quick, especially if you are willing to move elsewhere, which you would be doing in the Navy for sure.  Always have those feelers out and be looking for something better if you are getting paid crap.  15 bucks an hour is ok for starters as long as you are getting experience and making contacts.  Then you can settle down where you want to be eventually with a good job

[Skipperooni]

I'm almost done with the master's degree. Even if I end up joining the Navy, I would still wait until I finish the masters. I guess a better question would be whether the Navy is a good plan B, just incase I don't land a job after graduation, and do you think it is likely that I will be able to transition after 5 years, if I decided to join?


Another dilemma is that I'm really not sure what I want to do longterm. I like math and science, but working in a lab tends to be mind-numbing and excruciatingly boring, more times than it's not. The recruiter made this Navy thing out to be my golden ticket, but after visiting the forum, it seems as though it may not be such a good deal.

Thanks.

[hamsamich]

Yes that is correct.  He will tell you about the good parts mostly.  It can be good for people who know what they are getting into or use it as a springboard to a better life eventually, or you might get very lucky.  There are alot of bad people in the Navy and they have almost total control of your life.  The Navy could be great but it depends who is in charge.  If you have one bad apple in your chain of command your life could be hell.   And at least one Bad apple is very common even if you aren't in the military.  Not a bad plan B if you have nothing else.

[GLW]

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here............

the USN may be just what you need for the next number of years,....

wanna know why?!?!?!?!?

this:

[Skipperooni]

LOL

I'll look into it further.


Thanks for the input.


I appreciate it.

[MMM]

Those numbers are about what you'll make as an O-1, so you're not going to make much more in the navy. The benefits might be a little better, but long term you have better earning potential starting of as a chemist for $30k and work your way up.

[hamsamich]

You got some urinals to clean mayonnaise....

[scotoma]

Chemistry technicians in Nuke plants start much higher than $30K/yr.($50K-$80K), and then get pay raises for the next 3-4 yrs + the annual raises that everyone gets. The work is as mind numbing as anything else. After you get some time, you may be able to get a teaching certification which would get you more money. I know instructors that get big bucks and have taken jobs all over the world. But if you want to put your life on hold for 5 years, go Navy. You'll meet a lot of talented people and it'll open doors for you that you don't even know that they exist. Good luck!

[Skipperooni]

I've seen a lot of teaching jobs in the 35k range. High school teachers where I am make around 35k. In the next town over, they make around 45k, I think. I applied to be a science teacher in Dubai. I heard they start out at 80k. That would have been sweet.

As a submarine officer, don't you have vacation time, and isn't it more or less like a typical job between deployments?

[MMM]

Chemistry technicians in Nuke plants start much higher than $30K/yr.($50K-$80K), and then get pay raises for the next 3-4 yrs + the annual raises that everyone gets. The work is as mind numbing as anything else. After you get some time, you may be able to get a teaching certification which would get you more money. I know instructors that get big bucks and have taken jobs all over the world. But if you want to put your life on hold for 5 years, go Navy. You'll meet a lot of talented people and it'll open doors for you that you don't even know that they exist. Good luck!

He's not talking about a school teacher. He's talking about being a chem tech instructor for a company. With the degrees plus some experience, that's a good path to decent money.

[spekkio]

Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here. My name is Skipperooni. I am 29 years old. I have graduated with a BS (Bull$**t) in chemistry and physics. I am currently a graduate student and research assistant in physics at some crappy state university. I will be done with a master's degree in physics by May of next year.

Your salesmanship needs a lot of work, particularly when you're selling yourself and your accomplishments. You call your degree bullshit and your university 'crappy,' yet you want someone to hire you? I mean, I know career counselors at colleges aren't always the brightest bulbs in the box but you have to do better than that.


So, start with that and you may have some more job openings come your way.


Anyway, onto your career questions...


NUPOC means jack and shit to anyone inside of academia. I had a buddy learn that the hard way when he thought NUPOC was going to boost his resume enough to get into an ivy league grad school. Turns out they treat your service just like the Marine who did a 4 year enlisted tour as an 0311 - that is to say, they don't know and don't care to know the details between someone who has attended nuclear power school and manages a nuclear plant and someone who shoots rifles for a living or anything inbetween.


R&D at a university doesn't incur a lot of money and if you are interested in a better paycheck, you need to become tenured faculty at a university. You become tenured by getting research published, which earns the school government funding for more research. But you don't get paid well for any of that really until you are tenured faculty. Everyone has to pay their dues and that's your career pipeline in research.


You do have alternatives, one of which is to seek employment at pharmaceutical companies. My uncle does that and he makes quite a handsome salary.


If you want to go into the Navy then go for it, just understand that it's a diversion from your ultimate career path, not a progression toward it.

[Skipperooni]

You didn’t read what I posted. I said I wanted to work for a defense contractor or for the department of energy, not for a shitty university. I also said that I want to get out of school, not go back to school. I don’t tell employers that my university sucks and that my degree is crap. I told this forum that, because it’s anynomous, and I can tell the truth. I’m not treating this post as a job interview.

The jobs I am applying to are at national labs, defense contractors or research centers outside of academia. So far, I’m not having any luck. I was wondering if becoming a veteran would make me more competetive at those kinds of places.

As far as I know, to work in pharmacueticals, you need a pharmacy degree, which would be about 5 more years of intense schooling and 2 years of residency. The chemists that work on nuke plants are more than likely chemical engineers and not chemists. Nuclear and chemical engineering are similar. However, they are different from chemistry. A chemist has zero education in reactors. Like I said in the OP, going to school until I’m 35 does not sound like a good plan to me.

[Sadawg04]

Actually that is not true. I recently graduated with a two year degree in Nuclear Engineering Technology and was hired under Southern Nuclear Company. Chem techs are not chemical engineers. They are trained but they start from the bottom like im having to do. I also dont think chem takes make 30k a year. In a commercial Nuclear facility they make way more than 30k a year. I got hired as a nuke tech and im going to be making over 40k a year so there is no way a chem tech is taking 30k a year.

[ComradeRed1308]

While an O-1's salary is only 36k a year, you have to factor in BAH and BAS which will be at least an additional 15k untaxed income a year.   You get a a promotion  and time in service every 2 years which is a substantial increase in pay.  As an O-3 with over 4 years while living in Hawaii i was pulling in 100k after taxes.  That being said, I would not consider the financial aspect to be the major selling point for NUPOC unless you really want to make the Navy a career.  What it will do is set you up extremely well for a post Navy career, although more along a line of operations/management rather than engineering, research, or academia.  Although if you are trying to get in with defense contractors, anyone that works with the government will give preference to hiring veterans as they get government incentives to do so. 

As a submarine officer, yes you get 30 days of leave every year.  You will however be told that you can take it when you get to a shore duty after your at sea tour.  A typical JO sea tour is 3 years long with a 6 month deployment every 2 years, so you may go on one or two.  While not deployed, you will still go underway for various reasons and those underways usually last 2 or 3 weeks.  Unless you're in shipyard you'll likely spend about half of the time away from homeport (either deployed or underway).  In between underways you will likely be in 3 or 4 section duty which means you spend 24 straight hours on the boat every 3 or 4 days.  Towards the end of your tour you may get lucky and go 5 or 6 section if you have Department Heads that actually support the watchbill (hit or miss).  As you can see, a sea duty can be very stressful.  They try to balance that out by making shore duties (which last 2-3 years after your sea tour)  super easy.  Depending on the job you may make 6 figures working like 20-30 hours a week doing a really easy job (Not all are that cake though).  They last long enough to make you forget how crappy your sea tour was and convince you to sign a contract to go on another sea tour as a Dept Head.  After that you'll be like 11-12 years in going to another shore duty so they basically got you until 20 so you can collect retirement. 

[Skipperooni]

Thank you,  ComardeRed. So, you get 30 days of leave after a 3 year long sea tour? Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you've written.

Chem techs don't make very much money. I've applied to some positions at universities and USA jobs, and they've all been around 30k.

Thank you everyone for your response.

[hamsamich]

Nuclear Chemistry techs make from 60 to 110 thousand dollars a year without overtime.  I'm friends with 10 of them and I was one.  You would probably start at over 20 bucks an hour and quickly be past 30 and hour in a year or 2.  In the south the pay is on the low end depending on the plant.  Up north and out west you will top out near or over 50$ an hour.

[MMM]

Thank you,  ComardeRed. So, you get 30 days of leave after a 3 year long sea tour? Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you've written.

Chem techs don't make very much money. I've applied to some positions at universities and USA jobs, and they've all been around 30k.

Thank you everyone for your response.

No, you earn 30 per year (2.5 days per month). You're allowed to carry over 30 days unless there are exceptional circumstances. Red wasn't clear on that part.

[Skipperooni]

I didn't know I could apply for a nuclear tech position with a degree in chemistry.

MMM, thanks for clearing that up.

[Sadawg04]

Of course you can. I know people with a business degree working at savannah river site. You can defiantly work in a nuclear power plant with a degree in chemistry. Chen techs in a Nuclear powerplant do make over 100 thousand a year.

[GLW]

...........You can defiantly work in a nuclear power plant with a degree in chemistry....

I'm thinking that defiant stuff would be at odds with slides #28 and #30 below:

https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.naecp.net/resource/resmgr/imported/Rail_Houghton_WorkEnvironment.pdf

[Skipperooni]

I'm surprised no one mentioned this during my years as a chemistry student. All anyone ever told me was to take the GED and go to grad school. (LOL) Or they'd give me the classic response, "You can do anything you want!" Top notch advice.

If my plan was to become a nuclear technician, then wouldnt't the NuPOC program be a good idea? I still like the idea of serving our country.

[Sadawg04]

If you want to serve your country then I would encourage you go to the navy. Honestly though if you know where you want to work then wait for a chem tech position to open up and apply to it. They will make you take the pre employment test to show that you can be trained. Once you pass and your interview comes around just sell yourself in the interview and you can have a great paying job. In other words you don't need the navy to get your career started.