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Offline Rennhack

What is Article 108?
« on: May 16, 2005, 10:46 »
Some DOD facilities such as Bettis in the past have required the contract techs to take the site test, which is actually a test to become naval shipyards qualified as radcon, NAVSEA 389-0288 (Radiological Controls) Article 108.  Usually the contract companies have required techs to take the article 107 (GERT) test first.  there is also NAVSEA 389-0153-Radiological Controls
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2013, 01:43 by Rennhack »

Offline Shawnee Man

Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2005, 03:51 »
Article 107 is the shipyard's version of radiation worker qualification. All nuclear shipyard workers are qualified radiation workers.

Offline bsdnuke

Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2005, 04:42 »
There is a huge difference between Article 107 and Article 108.  A107 is like the GERT and A108 is like a full qualification standard for an RCT.  A108 included oral boards when I was at Charleston Shipyard. A107 was knowing how to read a meter, frisk and put on PPE.  BIG difference!

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2005, 01:54 »
There is a huge difference between Article 107 and Article 108.  A107 is like the GERT and A108 is like a full qualification standard for an RCT.  A108 included oral boards when I was at Charleston Shipyard. A107 was knowing how to read a meter, frisk and put on PPE.  BIG difference!
Yes, there is a big difference in the tests.  There is also a big difference in the work performed.  Also in the pay scale.  However, Rennhack was correct in his assertion that contract companies require the 107 test first for people arriving at a site.  The reasons are simple.  They companies get paid to do the testing on a per worker case.  More test mean more money. All workers, irregardless of their job classification, are then qualified to work in the areas.  Again, more money due to the more stringent qualification of the work force, and qualifications equal more money.  Someone who is on track for the 108 test had better be able to pass the 107!  I am sure there are more reasons, these are just the first few that came to mind.
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thesmithhouse

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 01, 2006, 07:33 »
I am article 108 qualified.  It is different from other qualification in that it uses the navy manual (389-0288 article 108) to tell you what an RCT must know.  Also to be qualified you must go through Radiological Control Technician Qualification School aka RCTQS, which is only taught at Norfolk Naval Shipyard.  It is a 5 month course that covers all knowledge and practicable applications required by article 108.  Article 107 training can be performed at each site.  They don't read meters anymore.  They are trained to work using radiolgoical controls.  They do catch, drape CSCA, walk-in CSCA, and glovebag/box work.  108's provide the radiological oversight for the work. 

Hope that helps.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 01, 2006, 10:23 »
Also to be qualified you must go through Radiological Control Technician Qualification School aka RCTQS, which is only taught at Norfolk Naval Shipyard. 

unless things have changed, there are two 108 quals.  one is for boaters, 108 navseas and one is for landlubbers, 108 navship.  the first is for thems what goes to sea 'n are the rct for the ship.  the second is for the shipyard rct.  i know they used to do the 108 navship at various sites around the country, one of which is what mike referenced, bettis atomic power laboratory.
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thesmithhouse

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 03, 2006, 06:26 »
Quote
i know they used to do the 108 navship at various sites around the country, one of which is what mike referenced, bettis atomic power laboratory.

I used to work at Bettis Power Lab in West Mifflin, PA.  They now send their techs to school in Norfolk.  In fact, all labs associated with NAVSEA or simply Naval Reactors send their techs to Norfolk's RCTQS.  All US Navy yards and Northrop Grumman Newport News Shipyard send their techs there also.  Navy ELTs don't have to be 108 trained to work aboard ship but some are sent to school for various reasons.  I had about 8 or 9 sailors in my class.  Some were going to be instructors, some were going to tenders, and one was going back on board a ship.  I now work at Newport News Shipyard and only one ELT on the ship I work on is 108 qualified.   

There are two separate 0288 manuals.  One is for labs and shipyards, and the other is for ships while at sea.  The Lab manual is NOFORN and the shipboard manual is classified as CONFIDENTIAL.  When a ship come into a yard, it basically becomes a yard "facility" and is goverened by the 0288 for shipyards.

Offline Marlin

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #7 on: Aug 03, 2006, 08:55 »
I don't remember a lot of difference between the quals. The ELTs on our boat qualified without any additional training to work in the Norfolk Naval shipyard. Times may have changed but it would seem to be a waste of time to send an ELT through this training. The shipyard manual had a little more focus on maintenance than the ships manual but was fundamently the same.

LRM

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #8 on: Aug 03, 2006, 10:31 »
Actually there are not two 0288s; the 0288 Rad Con Manual is for navy shore facilities, a new manual Rad Con for Ships is for sea going vessels.  Shipyards use a different corporate manual (if they are not DON). ELT qualify at sea under RCFS with a different Art number, Navy and DON RCTs qualify 0288 Rad Con Art 108.  The two books are not parallel and the quals are not equivalent.  ELT qualified under RCFS have a limited qual.  Ship ELTs do not have the same level of training as Art 108 RCTs (Ship ELTs rarely work glovebags and walk in CSCAs, Rad Con coverage is a very small part of the job).  108 training is easier for ELTs than other rates (provided they don’t think they already know everything), but is required and necessary to work at the at the RCT level at shipyards, tenders, or TRFs.  I heard that carriers are large enough to have a self contained maintenance team with RCTs that operate under 0288; but I was a sub guy, so I am not sure.

Lance
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2006, 06:23 by LRM »

Offline Marlin

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #9 on: Aug 04, 2006, 12:08 »
389-0288 was the shipyard manual and 389-0153 was the ships manual and it is not new. I spent three years in the yards. I qualified without any additional training other than a qual card just as I would have been required to do when changing ships. Typically 108 quals were done over a period of time for the yard monitors with a lot of OJT inbetween sitting control points and doing bottle checks. The only ELTs that had to do 108 quals were the ones that hired into a shipyard after seperation.

kennyboy

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #10 on: Aug 25, 2006, 05:51 »
Article 107 is the shipyard's version of radiation worker qualification. All
nuclear shipyard workers are qualified radiation workers.

I took this training back in the 1985 or so.

My new employer needs the number of training hours that were given.  He also wants documentation describing the training

Can a civilian get Article 107 on line?  I need a hard copy of the document.

Does anyone have a copy? Or can you send me a link?  OR anything?  Google is not helping.

I can get milspecs online.  Why can't I get article 107 on line.

I do not believe it is classified.

Please help. My pay scale depends on me finding this doc. and/or retraining.

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #11 on: Aug 25, 2006, 06:23 »
Unfortunately, these articles are part of a classified document.
Considering that you have not been trained as a radiation worker in the past 21 years, you are probably not still considered qualified as a radiation worker by anyone's standard.  Even the military and shipyards have changed their regulations at least once since then.  Even if they hadn't you would still be required to attend periodic retraining to be considered a qualified radiation worker.
If you are going to be working with radiation, the licensee is required to give you this training prior to exposing you to ionizing radiation.  They are also required to retrain you periodically.
If your pay rate depends on being a qualified rad worker, then get qualified as a rad worker.  Digging up some old training that has gone totally stale would not (and certainly should not) qualify you for the same pay rate as someone who has current training.
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Offline maxparity

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #12 on: Aug 27, 2006, 09:01 »
108 training is easier for ELTs than other rates (provided they don’t think they already know everything), Lance

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Offline SloGlo

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #13 on: Aug 27, 2006, 03:40 »
Article 107 is the shipyard's version of radiation worker qualification. All
nuclear shipyard workers are qualified radiation workers.

I took this training back in the 1985 or so.

My new employer needs the number of training hours that were given.  He also wants documentation describing the training

Please help. My pay scale depends on me finding this doc. and/or retraining.

kennyboy...iffen yer employer needs the amout of hours for this training 'n yer pay scale depends on it, yinz got two choices; tell him it wuz 40 hours, or bite the bullet 'n take the lower scale.  yer talking 20 year old training fer crying out loud!  art.107 training at non-shipyard areas wuz an otj program with a test at the end.  sum peeples end came sooner than udders, probably cause they cood take tests better.  others dragged it out for months.  i doubt yer employer will find out how long the course structure was intended back when you took it at the site at which you took it.  but if ya think he mite, then take the lower pay grade 'n tell him it wasn't much training, just how to work sensibly in contaminated areas, keeping exposure low, reaction to contaminate spills, 'n a buncha udder stuff that yinz now have so deep in yer personal work habits that ya can't separate the training from the other excellent nuclear training you have received. 
iffen this advise ain't two yer liking, the go wit da beercourt approach.

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Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #14 on: Aug 30, 2006, 05:23 »
I went through the NAV-SEA 389-0288 training to get 107 & 108 qualified back in 1990 at Newport News Shipbuilding.  I remember tests every other day for weeks on end, months of on the job training and a ball buster (2.5 hour) oral exam.  All of it was a one time do or die situation.  50% of the people that started with me failed and subsiquently lost their job at the yard.

It was tough mostly because none of us had ever worked in this field prior to that so all of the information was new.

It was a great way to enter the commercial nuke business I believe.  Better than the learn while you burn method anyway.
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Offline AS55555

Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 01, 2006, 09:23 »
Ex RPM here who was also a radiological engineer at Newport News Shipyard. I taught article 108 classes. The classroom portion of the course was 240 hours with weekly tests and a final exam. After the classroom phase 6 months was spent in OJT and an experienced based oral exam was given. Technicians called radcon monitors were not fully qualified until they had two years experience. At two years they went from jr monitor to monitor. The better more experienced techs were classified as senior monitors. Depending on work assignments some monitors were ready for commercial nuclear power plant work and some were not. Every two years monitors went throuh 1-2 weeks of classroom reqalifications. Numerous spill drills and seminars were periodically given. Article 107 was just a short class for radiation workers and in my opinion would not qualify one for or provide any experience towards HP work at commercial facility

JeffHawk

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Re: What is Article 108?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 04, 2006, 10:49 »
When I first qualified to 108 we had A, B and C monitors but that was back in the 1970's. C was what we now call a junior tech. The B rating was phased out. In 1983 I only knew of one B monitor on the west coast and he retired. By then we calling techs either qualified or not. If you were qualified you had been through the training and had the experience and passed the orals. If you couldn't pass then you were'nt fully qualified. And we had to re-qualifiy every two years. We were also subject to "random selection" to test before NRRO as part of the annual re-licensing review. A lot of us from those days became instructors in commercial which speaks to the level of knowledge that was expected of us then (high). A lot of us became RPMs too which speaks to the the level of sanity that was expected of us then (low).

 


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