Old Dominion vs. TESC vs. Excelsior

[baronbrady]

Hey,
   I'm a surface ET who's been on the ship for a little over two years.  I've made some decent headway on the Excelsior ABET degree, but I ran into a problem this weekend while I was looking at the degree plan I had printed out:  I can't find any mention of the degree on the Excelsior.edu website OR the Navy College site!  Do you know if it's still available.  Excelsior wasn't available today, due to the holidays, and I imagine they'll be closed Monday and Tuesday like most colleges.  Do you have any info?  I hope they didn't just drop the degree altogether.

[baronbrady]

Do you have a link to the degree plans for nukes?  I used to be able to find them pretty easily, even though they're separated from all the conventional navy degree plans.  Out of curiosity, also, does anyone know of a chem lab you can take through distance learning?  I've heard of it from several people, but no one knows which colleges offer it.  I looked at Troy, Excelsior, and U of Phoenix to no avail.
Thanks for the help!

[special-k-440]

I am an NLO. I am thinking about applying to Excelsior for the Associates in either Power Plant Tech or Nuclear Tech. Any othe NLO's (or know some) that have gone this route? How many credits do they give for initial NLO training, how hard is the online training, I want to get as much info as I can. Thanks nuclear community...

[Roll Tide]

In most circumstances, Excelsior follows the ACE guide credit recommendations. Your training department probably has the info on your specific program. The only exceptions I know of are when Excelsior evaluates a program separately, and then gives more credit.

One of the benefits of Excelsior is that you can consolidate credits earned from any other regionally accredited program. You may want to take some of the classes at a nearby community college (online or in person) and then transfer them all.

[Roll Tide]

Is there a link anywhere that has more information about the new ABET accredited program Kenny mentioned? All that I see on the Excelsior site is the same degrees they previously offered. Thanks

It took a while, but here is the answer:

Follow this link to one of our excellent advertisers:

http://www.epceonline.org/programs/bs-nuclear.html

It has a link, but it is kind of buried:

https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_College/Partnerships/EPCE/WAYS_TO_EARN_CREDIT

Then here is this really useful chart showing credit for INPO accredited training programs (like every commercial nuke in the US)

https://www.excelsior.edu/Excelsior_College/Publications/Nuclear_Technology_Degree_Programs.pdf

Watch the fine print, but some people are quite close to a degree.

[number41]

Yeah, I know this topic is OLD, but I've been busy OK!  Anyway, at my site, you won't get a position as an STA with Thomas Edison/Excelsior/University of Phoenix; it has to be an ABET accredited program.  Having said that, I don't know if we changed our position with the change at Excelsior.  I think it would depend on whether the degree was an "Engineering Technology" degree or a B.S. in a normal field.  The best I could say is to practice interviewing and hope for the best.

[JustinHEMI05]

Yeah, I know this topic is OLD, but I've been busy OK!  Anyway, at my site, you won't get a position as an STA with Thomas Edison/Excelsior/University of Phoenix; it has to be an ABET accredited program.  Having said that, I don't know if we changed our position with the change at Excelsior.  I think it would depend on whether the degree was an "Engineering Technology" degree or a B.S. in a normal field.  The best I could say is to practice interviewing and hope for the best.

I guess your site is different that everyone else's. Are you seriously still butt hurt that no one gives a s**t about your RPI degree?

Justin

PS My plant manager has a thomas edison degree.

[number41]

No, I'm not butt-hurt about my degree.  I just thought I'd throw my $0.02 into the discussion because the guys that just got hired with me are having this same discussion right now.  I guess we are being more restrictive than any ACAD requirements or INPO recommendations.  But my buddy went to the Citadel and you already know where I went because I'm so proud of it and we both got hired as STA's.  Two other retired Navy Chiefs and a 6 & out ET1 got hired for the same license class that we did and they run the gamut (one has U of Phoenix Nuke Eng Tech, one has Thomas Edison Nuke Eng Tech, and one has an Excelsior Degree), and none of them got picked-up as an STA.  Then again, that may not be a bad deal for them because we don't pay overtime for STA's, but straight RO/SRO's do (after a 45hr carve-out.)  I must say though, I know two of those guys finished their degrees "years ago", so maybe that has something to do with it.  Who knows?  Maybe it's more related to the "Engineering Technology" stigma, but as has been said on here many times, the degree matters alot less than what you do when you go to work.  By the way Justin, our Site VP has a B.S in Mech Eng, but he's never been in operations, so I guess that goes to show that none of this crap matters as much as your ability anyway!

[JustinHEMI05]

Exactly man. I don't mean no disrespect, just giving you some of that "piss and vinegar" you brought. 

[number41]

Well, you must admit that I had grounds to get a little mad at you................you actually used the word "STOW"!!!!!  I'm surprised you didn't throw-up trying to use a Navular term like that.  By the way, it looks like we got out of NY at the right time.  You wouldn't believe all of the crap that's going on up there right now.  Something about XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and 4 section shiftwork!!




Moderator modification ...Please be careful about operational information of Navy facilities and/or vessels.

[JustinHEMI05]

Well, you must admit that I had grounds to get a little mad at you................you actually used the word "STOW"!!!!!  I'm surprised you didn't throw-up trying to use a Navular term like that.  By the way, it looks like we got out of NY at the right time.  You wouldn't believe all of the crap that's going on up there right now.  Something about XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and 4 section shiftwork!!

Ya I have heard all about it. There is a large contingent of people from NY at Peach Bottom, we all have some contacts there so we get the whole story most of the time. I didn't think it was possible to get any worse up there when I left!


BTW, I have become quite the diggit again post Navy. 

Justin

[Preciousblue1965]

BTW, I have become quite the diggit again post Navy. 

Justin

Yea it is a little easier to move that shovel once you get out of the hole and aren't really moving dirt anymore.

[empills]

I applied for the Excelsior Nuclear Technology degree and am waiting on the evaluation to see what I need. I would like to get a head start by enrolling for the classes I need at my local community college. Can anyone tell me what credit I will get as a Navy Nuke Electrician type and what credit I will still need? Thanks in advance for the the help.

[formerET1Han]

I've been researching why the ABET matters and this is the answer that I have found. I have the Excelsior degree, though I chose mine just to hedge the bets (what was one more class if ABET ever mattered...ever).

1) as for MS in anything technical - you're kinda jacked. I have found only a couple of schools that would consider it, and even then, there will be remedial work - see the University of North Dakota. An example of how that might NOT work is the University of Tenn. They will consider you, but they generally don't accept technology degrees (they usually don't have enough math). If you took extra math, you might have a shot (like I have diffEQ, and they said we'll consider it on a case by case).

2) If you ever decide to get a PE license (that's the guys who design for a living) which is standard, the ABET is REQUIRED in the state of Texas. The technology degree will still set you back (you will require more experience before you can take the exam), but that's the only way. The non-ABET degree will NOT suffice. This is important if you are considering the possibility of not being a nuke.

3) There are a few jobs out there that the technology degree would be sufficient (though the straight engineering degree is preferred), and the lack of ABET accred. might be the deciding factor there too.

I hope that helps.

[formerET1Han]

I said ND, but I meant the Univ of NC. They have an online MS Nuclear Engineering degree...my bad.

[thenuttyneutron]

I sometimes wonder if taking the EIT would even be useful for me.  I have a NRC RO license at a Power Reactor, but I don't want to be in OPS forever.  If I take the FE exam, would that help as a notch on the resume?

[jgpwest]

I would recommend taking the FE only on the fact that if you ever decide to pursue your PE you need 5 years of experience after taking the FE.  I also don't recommend taking a prep class for the exam as the study guides and the reference book should be enough to get you ready.  I only would recommend the class if your company will pay for it.  As far as your resume..only the PE would look good, as EIT's are a dime a dozen, and most college grads are EIT's.

[HockeyFan]

2) If you ever decide to get a PE license (that's the guys who design for a living)

P.E. has nothing to do with whether you are qualified to design.  P.E. only matters if you consult or work for a consulting company, i.e. you offer engineering services to another company.  If you work directly for a manufacturing company or an OEM, you do not need a P.E. license.  It has everything to do with offering engineering services.  The only company that will care on a resume is a consulting company.

You are exempt from needing a license for "services performed by employees of a business organization engaged in utility, industrial or manufacturing operations."   Therefore, you can do design if employed by the utility or vendor, but not a consulting engineering firm.

[Preciousblue1965]

P.E. has nothing to do with whether you are qualified to design.  P.E. only matters if you consult or work for a consulting company, i.e. you offer engineering services to another company.  If you work directly for a manufacturing company or an OEM, you do not need a P.E. license.  It has everything to do with offering engineering services.  The only company that will care on a resume is a consulting company.

You are exempt from needing a license for "services performed by employees of a business organization engaged in utility, industrial or manufacturing operations."   Therefore, you can do design if employed by the utility or vendor, but not a consulting engineering firm.

Not 100% true, in order to build ASME Section VIII Div 2 vessels you(until recently) have to have the design done by a PE certified person.  Soon it will be someone certified that they know what they are doing.  But this is a very small number of businesses so it is about 99% accurate.  Most of the engineers I work with don't have PE licenses, but do have the no-crap engineering degrees, although they aren't really in the field they are working(what does a EE know about buidling mechanical portions of a boiler).

[HockeyFan]

but do have the no-crap engineering degrees

I just want to state that an EET is a no crap degree.  Yes there are a very small number of tasks you cannot do because the drawings must be sealed, but my goodness, hinting that a degree is crap is not fair.  I've never encountered this in my day to day life.  The only place I've seen it exist is on the internet.  And I've done firmware design, circuit board design, PLC programming, electric panel design, approved drawings, done seminars on UL requirements, and have been published in a trade magazine.  The degree was the ticket for entry into the field.  Experience took care of the rest.

By the way, for the drawings that must be sealed, you just need a P.E. to review them.  The P.E. can be one person who works at the company or it can be contracted out.  By law, any P.E. will do (civil, mechanical, electrical, etc.)  It doesn't even have to be someone who is in the same field.  Also, only a P.E. can testify in court as an expert witness.  The P.E. community is very small compared to the engineering community.  OEMs, which are companies that make products, do not require sealed drawings.

As far as knowledge goes, explain to me what an EE learns in school that an EET does not.  The EET learns current technology and how to use and apply it.  It's much more practical for current jobs in the field of engineering.  Besides, any job that requires advanced knowledge is going to require a master degree or PhD.  An EET is every bit as valid as an EE.  I've read a study that shows that EET's out earn EE's in the long run.

Dave

[tr]

P.E. only matters if you consult or work for a consulting company, i.e. you offer engineering services to another company.  If you work directly for a manufacturing company or an OEM, you do not need a P.E. license.  It has everything to do with offering engineering services.  The only company that will care on a resume is a consulting company.

The above is not true.  Each utlitiy is different - the ones I have worked for have either desired, or REQUIRED, their engineers to have a PE if they want to get promoted above the first level or two.  PE rules also vary from state to state.  For example, my understanding is that all engineering work done by Diablo Canyon is stamped by a PE, due to some specific statements in CA law.

[Preciousblue1965]

I just want to state that an EET is a no crap degree.  Yes there are a very small number of tasks you cannot do because the drawings must be sealed, but my goodness, hinting that a degree is crap is not fair.  I've never encountered this in my day to day life.  The only place I've seen it exist is on the internet.  And I've done firmware design, circuit board design, PLC programming, electric panel design, approved drawings, done seminars on UL requirements, and have been published in a trade magazine.  The degree was the ticket for entry into the field.  Experience took care of the rest.

By the way, for the drawings that must be sealed, you just need a P.E. to review them.  The P.E. can be one person who works at the company or it can be contracted out.  By law, any P.E. will do (civil, mechanical, electrical, etc.)  It doesn't even have to be someone who is in the same field.  Also, only a P.E. can testify in court as an expert witness.  The P.E. community is very small compared to the engineering community.  OEMs, which are companies that make products, do not require sealed drawings.

As far as knowledge goes, explain to me what an EE learns in school that an EET does not.  The EET learns current technology and how to use and apply it.  It's much more practical for current jobs in the field of engineering.  Besides, any job that requires advanced knowledge is going to require a master degree or PhD.  An EET is every bit as valid as an EE.  I've read a study that shows that EET's out earn EE's in the long run.

Dave

Sorry, what I mean by "no-crap engineering" degree was simply that it was just an engineering degree in which they went through the full blown math classes and all that other jazz.  From what I gather, most Engineering Tech degrees do not require Calc III or Differential Equations whereas full blown engineering degrees do.  Didn't intend to cause a fuss.  I am 4 classes away from NET from TESC so it isn't like I am down on those degrees myself.

[HockeyFan]

The above is not true.  Each utlitiy is different

This is a good discussion, but we're splitting hairs.  I was wrong to say the "only" company that cares is a consulting company.  Obviously, I cannot speak for every company or hiring manager, just my experience in my career.  Also, different disciplines have different requirements, and I'm only knowledgable about electrical.

State laws vary greatly for requirements for P.E.  A few states allow EET's the same credit as EE's, while others give half credit, and others don't give any credit or bar EET's from P.E.  The engineering degree gives 4 years experience credit towards the requirement in the states I've looked at.  If I were to desire a P.E., it would take an extra 4 years.  In the meantime, I could still do design while working toward the credential.  Because circuit board design and PLC programming don't require P.E., it was a non-issue for me.

When I was deciding on a degree, I talked with the design engineers at the company I worked for and asked them if I went for a BSEET, could I do design.  They all told me yes and a few of the engineers had a BSEET themselves.  Hence, I finished the degree and was picked up in R&D engineering doing new product development immediately.

My point is that an engineering technology degree is viewed the same as an engineering degree at every company I have ever talked to, and I've talked with over 100 companies in the course of my work.  Having an engineering technology degree, skills such as AutoCAD and programming, a good attitude, and experience were all that mattered.

Dave



edited to add quote

[HockeyFan]

most Engineering Tech degrees do not require Calc III or Differential Equations

Yes.  At an IEEE meeting, my one friend admitted he knew a ton of math he will never use.  

My program had Calc I and Calc II plus statistics.  We covered Laplace transforms, Fourier series, and linear algebra.  We used MATLAB quite extensively for signals and digital control systems.  Circuit analysis was calculus based and included some easy differential equations.  I know of another program that has differential equations for technologists.

I am 4 classes away from NET from TESC so it isn't like I am down on those degrees myself.

Congrats on your upcoming graduation.  I know of a few people who completed that program and did very well for themselves.

Dave

edited to expand on math topic

[formerET1Han]

Actually, the informatoin on licensure is pretty easy to obtain. Visit http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_boards/ and click on your state. For example, in TX, the requirements are listed here: http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/lic.htm.

The short of it is that if you do not have an ABET degree (which includes the Engineering Tech aka accredited by TAC/ABET), you will need 8 years of experience to be eligible for the license.