ELT school after a sea command?

[tinkerlow]

Long story short, I didn't get picked up for ELT out of prototype and I really wanted it. Can I go to ELT school after I get done with my sea tour? I've got conflicting information from dependable sources so I thought I'd ask you guys. Thanks much!

[taterhead]

It is not impossible, just rare.

Hey, maybe you'll like just being a mechanic...

[subsailor]

Long story short, I didn't get picked up for ELT out of prototype and I really wanted it. Can I go to ELT school after I get done with my sea tour? I've got conflicting information from dependable sources so I thought I'd ask you guys. Thanks much!

I'm not an ELT, but I do know it's possible...I have a "retread" on my boat, an MM1 who did a tour as a "straight" MM, then went back to ELT school.  Had another on my first boat (did 'type, then NR1 support crew, then ELT school and on to a boat).

It can be done.  Detailers (MM and ELT) would be the ones to talk to for details.  I think you have to make the switch before making MM1, but wouldn't swear to it.  Again, detailers have the straight dope.

[tinkerlow]

Is there anyway that I can guarantee that I get it? My career counselor said that I can't make it a condition of my reenlistment.

[taterhead]

STAR reenlistment guarantees a "C" school, but does not specify which school you get.
Basically, you get what is available at the time you transfer if you ask for a school en route.  Trust me, many have tread that road before.  Just because there is a guaranteed "C" school in your contract doesn't me it is given to you at your discretion or leisure.

A sailor in your position is best served by going to sea, getting fully qualified as quickly as possible, go above and beyond what is required at that command, then take orders to NPTU prototype.  It seems to me that it would be easier to apply for the ELT school once you are actually there.

[Already Gone]

It depends on when you reenlist.  If you wait til your first hitch is almost over, they'll start offering you their daughters to get you to sign.

[Rad Sponge]

Good luck with this.

Think about this:

If you transfer at your 48-52 mo window you will most likely be a senior 2nd or new 1st class, and most likely either qualified EWS/PPWS and a knowledgeable and needed member of M-Div. Right?

Then you go to ELT school and now you are a heavy Mechanic and a Nub ELT so where do you go?

If you go to Proto, you will be a useless ELT no better than a ELT MM3 straight out of Proto quals. What role would you expect to fill at Proto as a Sea Returnee "ELT". You could serve a function as an M-Div body, but you are not a Mech anymore, you are a 3356/86 and are now expected to be an ELT. As a senior MM2(SS) or junior MM1(SS) you would be expected to serve in a position of leadership in RL-DIV and you just by circumstance could not.

Radcon is a possibility, since they send all ratings there for that NNSY Radcon school...

IMHO if you take the ELT re-tread route, the best thing to do, would be to return to sea and learn to be an ELT at sea.

Since the Navy is so short right now on ELTs, I bet you will be heading to sea as an ELT sooner than later.

I really cannot think of a way you would serve as an ELT in a shore capacity after finishing ELT school. You would just not have the sea-returnee experience expected of you as an ELT.

Unless, between now and then, you "qualify" as an "ELT" at your command by studying and performing prac-facs under the supervision of the LELT, document all your OJT, take some qualification exams as an ELT would, and then put it all together in a package signed off by your CO, documenting your ability to serve as an ELT on shore.

[Already Gone]

I beg to differ.  Back in the Stone Age, when I was LELT of the Louisville (Pre-Commissioning) one of the ELT's who reported had been an M-Divver on my previous boat.  In fact he was the ship's machinist.  Since he had already taken Machine Tool Operator school, he was one of the first MM's to be given ELT school as a choice for "C" School (the only other choices were diesel operator, which was pointless for a 688 nuke; and welder, which was usually full).
As a "nub" ELT, he was more valuable than the "nubs" straight from prototype.  He was practically automatically requalified ERS and SS, and his ELT quals were a breeze.  The other 1st class ELT had been on one of those older boomers, so the "nub" was signing his qual card.
The fact that he was already experienced on the 688 boat made everything easier.  He was the only other ELT on the ship (including the MLPO and the CO) who had experienced a large spill of primary coolant while underway.
If I had been given a vote, I would have had all ELT's do one sea-duty rotation before ELT school.

[Rad Sponge]

Actually you are agreeing with me more than you are differing...

You said your Re-tread was great, but he was coming to SEA as an experienced M-Divver turned ELT..

That is exactly my point of why I said that it would serve the guy best to go to ELT school and then to sea.

But this guy will be rotating to shore with a school on the way. This school changes everything, it changes his primary NEC, thus he will be going to shore as a "senior" ELT. In my opinion he would be limited in his choice of shore commands. The best one would be Proto, so he can get some practical ELT experience, but it is a training command, and he would be no more instructor qualified than a SPU-ELT. It could work and he would benefit M-DIV, its just that he would be an ELT first/ M-Divver second at Proto.

Let's say he does a Shipyard, TRF, QA, or something shore tour as a 3356. By the time he rotates back to sea he will be a 9-10 year MM1 and be expected to fill a LELT billet. Current manning for a Trident is 1 MM1/LELT billet. and for a Fast is 2. It would sink him, possibly, having no practical experience.

This why the ELT training is streamlined the way it is and the school is not part of the usual STAR package, because of the NEC change and the manning needs for experienced LELTs at sea.

LST:

1. He should qualify secondary chemist at sea.
2. Be a scene leader for spills.
3. Do some serious after watch ELT OJT
4. Be able to get the CO to vouch for his potential

[Already Gone]

Yeah, I guess I am agreeing with you.  If he's rotating to shore, is he even eligible for his C school at that time?  It has been a long time, but they used to do that just before they sent you back to sea.  Depending on the timing, ELT school on the way to the next boat is much more likely.  I doubt that any Prototype command is going to put a sea-returnee straight into ELT school.  They're going to want to see some performance first.

[Rad Sponge]

The only retreads I have ever seen are SPU-MMs that do two years as an M-Divver and then go to ELT school before heading to the fleet.

[shayne]

The only retreads I have ever seen are SPU-MMs that do two years as an M-Divver and then go to ELT school before heading to the fleet.

Same here.  Plus the Sea Returnee staff have 3 months to do all their quals and staff quals which doesn't leave much time to attend ELT school.

[hamsamich]

I'm almost positive that you can get ELT school as long as you save your re-enlistment to use as bait.  As long as the Nav needs nukes and you were a decent nuke, that is.  I'm pretty sure (or at least this used to be the case) you could re-enlist for orders instead of getting a C-School.  So just make sure the orders are that you are to go to ELT school.  You may have to let them pick where you go after ELT school, but if being an ELT (as it should be ) is that important to you then maybe it is worth it?

[taterhead]

There is no reenlisting for orders, per se.

GUARD Reenlistment gives you a one time choice of homeport or class of ship, at the discretion of the detailer.  Plus, GUARD does not pay the SRB.

The Navy is downsizing.  Yes, nukes are needed, but we have seen here that the Navy is not afraid to kick out the PRT failures, nukes or not.  Since I have been at my command, we have processed 2 nukes out of my division for not meeting body fat requirements.  Nuke DEP'ers are having to wait months to ship out due to a backlog of folks signing up.

Perhaps her bargaining chip (reenlistment) is weaker than it once was....

[hamsamich]

Ok, I guess I didn't totally understand GUARD. I guess there is no way to guarantee it, but maybe some ways to make it possible. I would do things like talk to people who have done it, call other prototypes and talk to people who have seen it done, talk to people in your command who have been in for a while and you trust; make sure you put in your request chit constantly enough to be a slight pain in the butt, but not every week.  I think i put my request chit in to be a Scuba Diver on my submarine every couple of months, and finally got it after 3 years or so.  I was in good shape, was the PRT coordinator, passed the dive test on my own initiative, hung out with the divers etc.  ANYTHING that had to do with being in shape and being a diver.  When needs of the Navy are aligned in the right spot (too many MMs not enough ELTs), you may get a surprise approval or at least some help in accomplishing your goal from your command.  That is the only way I got what I wanted.  Everything else I just asked for, I didn't ever get.  Think Tim Robbins and his letters to Congress concerning the prison library in "Shawshank Redemption."  But hey, it might not be worth all the jumping thru rings of fire....

[MCiko]

The only people who were approved for ELT school after their initial training (not selected when they completed NPTU and received their NEC) are SPU Mechanics, this has been common practice for the past three years. The Navy ELT inventory is in great shape at the junior level - the need is at the LELT level, so unfortunately you will not help out in this area. If by chance you did get approval for ELT school, you would have to go directly back to sea and complete at least a minimum activity tour at sea, just like the NAV ETs on your boat. I recommend that you call your detailer and inquire about you being released from the MM community and going to ELT school, he is the first person in the decision process and pretty good guy (I selected him for that job). DO NOT PLAY "I WILL GET OUT CARD", detailers hear that threat daily and you will not meet your objective. Good Luck!

[hamsamich]

Yeah, I agree with MCiko.  The only way to use that "I WILL GET OUT CARD" is if you are ready to get out.  Hold it in your back pocket though, and realize there is some worth to it.  I just wouldn't spring it up at the detailer.  I thought you could play that card with GUARD re-enlistment, but it looks like that is a limited option.  You are probably going to have to schmooze your way into ELT school, probably have to find a "secret squirrel" way thru lots of investigation.

[taterhead]

...or, you might just want to be a real MM.

Spill drills are the worst, and ELTs can't just run away....

[JsonD13]

eh, we hardly respond to them on a carrier anyways.......

only if we get caught in the middle of it!  haha

[graydragon67]

Why do you want to be an ELT, Tinker?  Is it for the Chemistry background or for the RadCon?  That's my question.  If it's for the Chem. try your best to qual everything you can while at Sea.  Have a good attitude (Harder Done then Said) and always have a SHARP uniform.  Your shipmates (Oh!!  I can't believe I typed that in!!), will tease you about it but, it WILL get you noticed by the upper echelon and that is what you want.  A good word by the CO or XO goes a long long way. 

If you are interested in the RadCon part of the ELT life.  Again finish the sea tour and ask for the RCTQS.  Then the powers that be will either send you to a tender or shore command.  Tender life is OK.  Was very different from what I was used to as a Submariner.  If you are sent to shore you'll be working with Civvies such as myself.  No duty days, 8-12 shifts at times and Civvies asking for your weekends if you are assigned for 'em. 

Good luck

[Sarpedon]

Is there anyway that I can guarantee that I get it? My career counselor said that I can't make it a condition of my reenlistment.

In the STAR reenlistment, you're guaranteed a C school... ELT school is considered a C school =P If you STAR reenlisted, you can cash in on that one. I know it can be done because one of the ELTs at S8G prototype did it (I'm at S8G right now; I talked to this guy a few weeks ago).

[taterhead]

In the STAR reenlistment, you're guaranteed a C school... ELT school is considered a C school =P If you STAR reenlisted, you can cash in on that one.

Yes, it is considered a C school.

However, one is not *guaranteed* the C school of their choice...just a C school.  Likely whichever one is the most convenient for their next duty (RCT, Steam Plant Maintenance, etc.).

I don't think anyone here said it was impossible, just rare.  You aren't going to get it simply because your reenlisted and asked for it.  There are other factors involved.

[hamsamich]

I wanted a certain school when I reenlisted and they wouldn't give it to me.  they waited until they needed someone to go to a certain school, and I was interested, so I got that one.  needs of the navy, not the needs of the jimbo 

[visserjr]

No offense, but the term retread on the fast boats I was on, usually meant a retard that was kicked off of a boat or two for being AFU, and was sent to the Battle E boat for fixin. Anyway, I firmly believe their is no greater gift than being a mechanic. Remember ELT's are MMs first, and ELT is a collateral duty. Stay a REAL Mechanic and stay away from the lab dude.

[hamsamich]

Yeah, I wish I would have tried to do more mechanic stuff when I was on my fastboat.  But my boat was AFU and it was kinda every division for itself, and the MMLCPO was a total peice of siht.  So we did what we could to distance ourselves (RL-Div) from him ("Cheif" Ramirez).  By the time the next guy arrived, who was pretty good, it was getting time for me to go.  Today I am paying for not learning all the cool mechanic stuff when I had the chance.

[Rad Sponge]

Mechanic stuff is overrated unless you plan on staying in and going for MMC.

Focus on what you love. I have always liked chemistry, so that is where I focused my attention.

ELT is not a collateral duty if you adhere to all the requirements. The whole "collateral duty" comment is normally uttered by:

1. Jealous mechanics
2. Chiefs that have f'd up MMs
3. ELTs trying to suck up to the LPO/LCPO

[Fermi2]

I adhered to all the requirements and yes it was a collateral duty.

I was a damn good ELT and a damn good mechanic too.

Mike

[visserjr]

JMK,

Or by a Crusty 30 year Master Chief Bull Nuke who was an ELT.

[Rad Sponge]

Let me amplify my views on being an ELT.

Its a very situation driven description of whether an ELT is an MM first or an ELT first.

For those of you lucky enough to have a fat division full of experienced ELTs, then the oppurtunity was probably there to gain more MM experience and do something mechanical other than stand ERF.

For those of you that had a division full of juniors and could not turn your back for a moment, then you might think ELT was a full time gig.

On my boat we were short an ELT and the command would not even consider qualifying an MM to be a Sec Chemist, so basically the ELTs were stuck in ERF. Our first LELT had his head stuck up the commands ass trying to make MMC and playing EDTA so he was useless, so basically the bulk of the divisional workload came down on one or two of us.

So basically I immersed myself in chem/radcon and didn't look back. Was I one of the guys in the eyes of M-div? Hell no, but could they audit any of my programs or support my schedule in any way? Could m-div back me up? Nope, hell it was pulling teeth just to get one m-divver to properly do a turbidity or work in a containment properly.

I have nothing against M-div, I really tried to gain more M-div experience, but my situation did not allow me to shift or expand my focus without something chem/radcon biting me in the ass.

In retrospect it set me up to be a Plant Chemistry Tech and a Health Physicist, and that's fine by me.

[visserjr]

jmk,
You are absolutely right. It is very situation driven. You were the elt people loved. I was refering to the ELT's that didn't work for anyone, and used elt as an excuse to get out of anything. I certainly meant no offense. Truth be told, I jusy had MAJOR knee surgery, and am on morphine slow release 2 times a day a vicodin in between. So, that being said, my appologies,

John

[Rad Sponge]

Its all good.

Good luck with the recovery.

I wish the ELT would be a rating and drop manning down to 2-3/boat.

Then an ELT could just be an ELT and there wouldn't be a problem.

Regardless of the debate, we can agree that ROs are smoothies.

[hamsamich]

  You are still a SMAG

[visserjr]

Yes RO's are still the panty wearers  in the Engine room.